Enrollment Questions (Some Thoughts from the Boundaries Work Session)

There have been quite a few questions about enrollment especially as pertains to students coming in at a non-entry grade. I think we do have to wait for the transition plan for some answers.

Clearly, they can't give a seat to every child at their attendance area school especially in the NE. I'm sure they will try to find a school in your region at elementary level. As for middle and high school, I can see where someone coming in at 7th would have to go out of region for middle school (unless they chose a space at an Option school that had room).

It's an interesting discussion as well historically. The issue of new students who move here after the school year has always been an issue. It is quite shocking to many parents who move to Seattle only to find out that they can't get into their neighborhood school. But we are in a very transitional time so it will be hard on people in that situation.

As well, I recall that when Don Nielson was on the Board, he had put forth an amendment to the SAP to give preference to students who had 2 or more continuous years in SPS over someone coming in from private school. He felt parents should be rewarded for their commitment to public school. The amendment did not past but I remember a lively discussion. (I see both sides but at the time I thought it would be hard to be a long-time supporter of public schools only to see someone come back from private school and your child not get into the school he/she wanted and the private school student did.) But it would be one more thing to put into the system.

From the Boundaries Work Session:
  • as mentioned, extension of early enrollment to January 15th
  • Tracy brought up...the Barnhart/Waldman amendment. Yes,really. (For those who don't know, it was an amendment created by previous Board directors that allowed you to list your choices but still rank them differently depending on if you got in or not at your first choice). She said that they CANNOT take it out of the system during the VAX migration so it would still be in play during at least the transition period. So, it might be quite the game to figure out how to put choices down for the next couple of years.
  • Wednesday, December 16 will be a Board Work Session for the Transition Plan. This is our first notice of when we might see the plan. So you get to see the plan and then stew over it during the holidays.
  • Somewhere in January will be the Open House tours.
  • Late February assignment letters will be mailed to all early enrollment K, 6th and 9th graders. So between the Work Session on Dec. 16th to the Jan. 15th deadline for early enrollment and then the assignment letters to early enrollment students in late February, the transition plan should be done by ....early January? Does it seem to you that they need to get it done BEFORE early enrollment ends?
  • Late February letters will be mailed to ALL parents about the new SAP and enrollment
  • March 1-31 is Open Enrollment
  • Late May - assignment letters mailed

Comments

Elizabeth W said…
Oh, good grief!

I completely understand how (and, from an engineering viewpoint, sympathize with the fact that) Dr. Libros and the Enrollment department have come to the point where it's most time- and cost-efficient have different algorithms for enrollment processing for different grades, one requiring strategy and one not but...

...this is an absolute public relations nightmare that does not take human factors into account. There is a huge potential for wild rumors and and misinformation here. I just cannot imagine that the district is going to do a first class job of communicating how this will work.

What a mess! Surely there's a way to make the new system work for non-entry grades, even if it means doing it all on paper laid out on tables in a gymnasium.
Anonymous said…
Continued from the Boundaries discussion...

This is really frustrating. What are people new to the Seattle School District supposed to do? What if you move in with more than one child of school age?

We kept our child in his private Montessori school for K this year. K is the last year of preschool in the Montessori preschool model. Our son is the quintessential "twice gifted" child. He's been tested a lot in trying to understand what is going on with him, so we know his IQ is APP level and his visual motor/ fine motor skills are significantly delayed. (Luckily our insurance fully covers vision therapy and OT.) This gap naturally causes a lot of frustration for him. We hope that by keeping him in K in his Montessori (with the same teacher he's had for 4 years) will build his confidence. We also had hoped to bypass the sibling issue (he's the oldest of 3) by waiting for our attendance school. I already feel like I don't know where he belongs: APP? Spectrum? regular classroom? With 30 kids???? How would he and the teacher manage? Now, he may not even have a spot at our attendance school. Argh!

I can't be the only one with this type of child, nor the only one with a non-entry grade child. If feels like the district doesn't want us.
h2o girl said…
So then the Barnhart-Waldman algorithm will still be in effect for families during Open Enrollment in March 2010? That would be good news for many folks.
Andrew Siegel said…
So, do we know what happens to people who have kids in the entering grades but don't sign them up during the early enrollment period? When they get around to signing their kids up, will those kids still have a guaranteed spot in their attendance area schools? If so, how can they accurately predict the number of slots available via the choice process? If not, how can they claim that the process will be more equitable for lower social capital parents than the previous process?
TechyMom said…
I can see the possibility for confusion for families with kids entering K who DON'T want their attendance area school. I wonder if they'll know they need to sign up for their attendance school before open enrollment. If they don't, do they still get to do open enrollment? Same issue for kids entering 6 and 9 who were at private school this year.

What about the families that don't sign up at all, and just show up on the first day? I've heard this happens a lot at RBHS and Cleveland. Will people be showing up at Cleveland because that's where their neighborhood has always gone? I expect Cleveland will have room, but STEM might not be a great match for those kids.
Elizabeth W said…
Melissa,

Can you clarify what Dr. Libros said about keeping the Barnhardt-Waldman amendment in play? I initially read your post as indicating it would apply to in-transition grade levels (i.e. non-entry this year, and percolating up). However, most other folks posting here are interpreting this as guaranteed assignment for entry grades plus across-the-board Barnhardt-Waldman.

WV: "mendrefr", so I will mend the references by noting that the phrase "Barnhardt-Waldman amendment" should regularly be accompanied by "this is the Gale-Shapley algorithm" so that those who want to know what it is instead of who suggested it can find out.
SPS parent said…
This comment has been removed by the author.
SPS parent said…
Techymom, I think one of the positives about this plan is that if your child is enrolled in SPS, he/she will automatically be assigned to their neighborhood school. There is nothing at all that a family has to do! It's the "predictability" that so many families asked for.

After kids are assigned to their neighborhood schools, families will be given the option to apply for another neighborhood school or option schools. Those families who choose this option will have to fill out an enrollment form and submit it during open enrollment.

A child just showing up at a school other than their assignment school or at an option school like Cleveland, would not get in unless there was excess space.

A kid that just showed up at their neighborhood assignment school, that was entering K,6 or 9th grades, would be admitted because they are guaranteed a spot at the school.

If a child is not enrolled in SPS (currently private, home schooled, out of district) then the family has to register the child with SPS. Once registered if your child is going into K,6 or 9th grade (entry level grades) he/she will automatically be assigned to his/her neighborhood school (guaranteed assignment). If the family is not happy with the assignment they can go through the open enrollment process of applying for other neighborhood or option schools.

At least that is how I understand it.
Elizabeth, I just knew there was another name for the amendment; thanks.

To answer your question, I know what the amendment did under the old plan. I don't really know how it will work for the new plan or the transition period for the new plan.

I'm sure all will be explained by Tracy. I would love it if we were allowed, as a group tonight, to ask such questions.
dj said…
Adhoc, that doesn't answer the question that Andrew has upthread, which is one I also have. Presumably SPS doesn't just know that a child exists; a parent at some point has to do something to enroll the child. Under the new SAP, at what point does a parent need to do that? If you live in an assignment area, you've never contacted SPS, and you drop your kid off at school the first day of school, must the school take the child (assuming the child is an entry grade)? If so, how do we predict how many of those kids there will be? If not, don't we have the same issues we have under the current system?
Charlie Mas said…
Barnhart-Waldman will remain because it is too tricky to have the VAX run one algorithm for incoming K, 6, and 9 students and another algorithm for everyone else.
Sue said…
Early registration is going on now. Parents are registering their children. Parents who are going to have children in SPS next year can enroll from now until March 31 I think.

Quite honestly, and I know this sounds harsh, but if you know you will have a kid in SPS next year, and do not enroll but just show up, then you are really out of touch. SPS enrollment centers have been coming to neighborhood libraries, there have been phone calls, emails, etc about the assignment plan. Outreach has been pretty good.

I cannot imagine someone would just think they could show up and get in. There cannot really be that many people who do that, can there?
SPS parent said…
DJ asked "If you live in an assignment area, you've never contacted SPS, and you drop your kid off at school the first day of school, must the school take the child (assuming the child is an entry grade)?"

The SAP states that every student is guaranteed a seat at the entry level grade of their neighborhood assignment school. Certainly, a child must be officially enrolled in SPS, fill out necessary paper work, etc., but after that, according to the new SAP, the district must place that child in their neighborhood school.

The district has the data, and knows how many kids live within a schools boundaries, even if the kids are at private school, home schooled, or out of district. They have drawn the boundaries with this consideration. So a kid showing up at their neighborhood school should not be a surprise.

Perhaps for the first couple of years we will see some large class sizes, extra classrooms (held on the stage, in science labs, etc), or portables to accommodate everyone.

This is my interpretation from reading (pretty carefully) the new SAP. You could certainly check with Tracy Libros tonight at the meeting, or email her at
trlibros@seattleschools.org

The new SAP promises that every student is guaranteed a spot at their neighborhood assignment school so they are going to have to find a way to accommodate them.
dj said…
Keepin' On, I moved here to Seattle in August before my daughter started school. The lines at the enrollment center at that point were really lengthy -- some people who had moved here like me, but mostly people who just had never filled out paperwork to enroll their kids in school (and we still had people popping up at my daughter's school as the school year was starting).

I just have no idea if things actually will be different under the new system, if so many people weren't enrolling under the current system.
Elizabeth W said…
On 11/5/09 at 11:09 AM
Blogger Charlie Mas said...

Barnhart-Waldman will remain because it is too tricky to have the VAX run one algorithm for incoming K, 6, and 9 students and another algorithm for everyone else.

...

Charlie,

Can you please clarify: are you paraphrasing something you heard from an official source, or voicing an educated opinion?
Adhoc, that may be true in a couple of years but during transition they won't be able to guarantee every child in every newly drawn attendance area can get in their attendance area school. They don't have room (at least in the NE). It's not clear to me exactly how this will work out (and it's one reason they don't want to grandfather siblings of non-attendance areas students).
Charlie Mas said…
Elizabeth W., the reason that Barnhart-Waldman will be retained during the first few years of transition was stated at the Board work session.
SPS parent said…
Melissa are you suggesting that some kids will not be able to get into their neighborhood schools, at the entry grade, because of lack of space? If so, where did you read about, or hear that? Or, is it speculation?

I have not seen or heard that anywhere.

How would enrollment decide which kids, living within the boundaries of school X, applying for an entry level grade, would get in and who wouldn't? There are no tie breakers for kids who apply for the entry level grade at their neighborhood school because they are guaranteed a spot.
Elizabeth W said…
On 11/5/09 at 12:24 PM Charlie Mas said...

the reason that Barnhart-Waldman will be retained during the first few years of transition was stated at the Board work session.

Thank you, Charlie.

This is one of those issues where the precise wording makes a huge difference to what one can deduce about the system.

From what you and Melissa are saying, entry-grade students for Sept 2010 will have guaranteed placement at their neighborhood school and the choice process will make use of the existing Barnhart-Waldman/Gale-Shapley code.

I've said before that there's a straightforward variant of the Gale-Shapley process to achieve just this. However, that is not the same as what can be accomplished by running the existing algorithm. I'll need to think about this for a while to know what the likely ramifications are.
Andrew Siegel said…
Ad Hoc, you seem either to be missing the point of our questions or to be unduly optimistic about the answer. The district has said every child in an entry grade is going to be guaranteed a spot in their attendance area school. But they have not said what that means. It certainly means that every child who lives in the attendance area and is going into an entry grade that fills out the paperwork by January 15 will be sent a notice assigning them to their attendance area school and letting them know they don't have to do anything to accept it. But the district has said absolutely nothing about kids who live in the attendance area and don't submit a form by January 15. If they don't submit the form but try and register for their home school while the lottery is going on, wil they still have priority? What if they wait until after the lottery when all the seats will presumably be filled? What if they wait until the first day of school? does it matter if the failure to apply by January 15 is because they forgot or because they hadn't moved in until after that date? These questions are hugely important for both equity and access issues and the district has--as far as I know--provided any answers.
SPS parent said…
Andrew, maybe this helps:

From the district FAQ
http://www.seattleschools.org/area/newassign/faq_equity.html

"How is this plan equitable to underrepresented, economically disadvantaged, and/or highly mobile families?

In the past, families who applied after the Open Enrollment period did not have the same school choices as those who did. The new student assignment plan corrects this uneven situation. When the plan is fully implemented, families will always have access to an attendance area school, no matter when they apply. Students who apply late will not be shut out of their attendance area school; however, students applying for option or other attendance area schools will still have a better chance of assignment if they apply during Open Enrollment."

Does that help? You can always email Tracy Libros too. She is head of enrollment services and would be able to clarify further.
zb said…
I had also come to the same conclusions as adhoc -- if you have a child in an entry grade, you are *guaranteed* entrance to your assigned area school. That happens whether you enroll during the early period, the open enrollment period, on the first day of school (or in the middle of the school year? that's the one part I'm not sure about).

I think they plan on accommodating bad estimates of the number of kids the way that districts always had done (before the choice systems were developed).

I also think that means that there aren't really going to be open spots in likely to be crowded schools for "open enrollment" because spots will be held in reserve for the children who may arrive at the door on the first day of school. But, that's speculation)

(of course, this analysis is for K, 6, and 9 only).
zb said…
PS: There is wiggle room in the quote ("when the plan is fully implemented"). I think that's to apply to the non-entry grade situation, but I'm not sure.
SPS parent said…
Also, I think I read somewhere (but of course can't find it right now) that schools will be assigned far less kids than they can actually accommodate. This was explained by enrollment as a way to ensure that there is plenty of capacity available for families new to the district, or late to enroll for whatever reason.

Does anyone have the numbers? How many seats are available at each school under the new SAP?
TechyMom said…
My point was that this needs to be made more clear in the documents, perhaps as part of the transition plan.

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