tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post1011531440877089896..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: The Next SuperintendentMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger116125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38895077637822268772011-03-04T21:32:31.828-08:002011-03-04T21:32:31.828-08:00Meg, I know I am late in responding to this. I un...Meg, I know I am late in responding to this. I understand that Elaine Ko works for the city now. I would want a little clarification on her role her before jumping jurisdictions and adding more layers of complexity.Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05896128847216267770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73505746171272681872011-03-03T16:03:28.509-08:002011-03-03T16:03:28.509-08:00Well, I think the math comments on this thread hav...Well, I think the math comments on this thread have probably died out with all the excitement over MJG and DK being officially gone as of last night, but thought I'd throw in another comment anyway. <br /><br />My kid has struggled ever since the curriculum switch three or four years ago - the switch to a new way of learning when he didn't have the background was really tough on him.<br /><br />He's done Kumon, I've brought home Singapore and other things to supplement - and I've really read through the books (CMP now) to try to help him. <br /><br />When I read through them and really had to understand what they were driving at - the basic premise didn't seem that bad. I can see why some would support them, and why some people could get good results.<br /><br />However, in practice - my kid's class has never had time to do even a decent majority of the problems in any of the books - and that's with homework every night. There is a lot of practice in them, but much of it doesn't tie to our standards. So they aren't able to really master the curriculum that's presented each year in the books. <br /><br />Then - there really are times when they are poorly written. You have to assume a lot to answer some of the questions because the english in them is not always clear. Translating math into english is not always easy, and the authors frequently miss the mark.<br /><br />The realities of our district are what make that curriculum inappropriate. If students were able to master each year's curriculum before being promoted to the next level, we would probably see reasonable results.<br /><br />But that often doesn't happen. And they are promoted anyway. Then, with all the dependence on language and thinking things through in this curriculum, it becomes increasingly difficult each year for someone who is even a little bit behind to comprehend what they are supposed to be learning. <br /><br />A more direct instructional method could be a real help to those who are trying to catch up or who find the language confusing (ELL and a lot of native english speaking kids and parents too!).klhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10896882443894592502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23496697512418164182011-03-02T17:25:36.973-08:002011-03-02T17:25:36.973-08:00Gee, can we not re-open the debate on math instruc...Gee, can we not re-open the debate on math instruction right here and right now?<br /><br />I think that we can all think of situations in which inquiry-based math instruction would work well and situations in which it would not work well at all. Likewise for direct instruction. There are plenty of examples of both strong and poor outcomes with both styles of instruction.<br /><br />Neither instructional strategy is inherently better or worse or more or less than the other.<br /><br />Here in Seattle we have ample evidence of widespread failure of inquiry-based math instruction. That doesn't mean that it couldn't work well elsewhere - or even that it couldn't work well in Seattle Public Schools under different conditions.<br /><br />There are folks who can point out historical failure rates for direct instruction and who find it equally ineffective.<br /><br />I have my beliefs and reasons for those beliefs. You have yours. Inquiry-based math instruction was a disaster for my family, but there may be some folks who experienced a disaster with direct instruction. It is highly unlikely that we're going to settle this question here.<br /><br />I'm happy to discuss it, but let's not stoop to cheap accusations.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78487221695402983232011-03-02T07:05:04.816-08:002011-03-02T07:05:04.816-08:00Inquiry works well in some SPS schools? No need t...Inquiry works well in some SPS schools? No need to eat cake. Too bad so many think public school kids deserve less. And good-ole-fashioned didn't work well in lots of schools back in the day? Why was that?<br /><br />ObserverAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91675809463669516362011-03-01T23:28:04.248-08:002011-03-01T23:28:04.248-08:00Observer what is your opinion as to why inquiry ma...Observer what is your opinion as to why inquiry math works well at Lakeside and yet doesn't work well in SPS (based on test scores)?anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63162551535772767892011-03-01T23:05:05.474-08:002011-03-01T23:05:05.474-08:00Observer, what do you mean Singapore doesn't h...Observer, what do you mean Singapore doesn't have multiplication drill? I am using Singapore at home to supplement, and we just finished a bunch of two and three digit multiplication problems out of the Singapore textbook, and there were more in the workbook if we needed them.<br /><br />Comparison with Lakeside is right up there with "Let them eat cake" for understanding of the problem.<br /><br />Anyway, sorry for the thread hijacking.<br />I'm not sure running the schools like a business is possible, let alone desirable. I do want the superintendent and the board knowing where the money is going. But other aspects are inappropriate for a public agency. Agencies can't be run as little tyrannies where nobody questions the boss. (I know, MGJ tried.) Putting in only yes-men gets us the current situation, where bad news was buried so it could grow up to be terrible news. <br /><br />A superintendent must lead by example. If you want ethical behavior, you must start with your own behavior being above reproach. No parties at the public expense, no suspicious undisclosed board relationships. If you want workers to take a pay cut, must start with your own.<br /><br />A public agency has to disclose much of what it does. Living in a fishbowl like that would rule out a lot of what happens in the private sector.<br /><br />Getting things done in the public sector is about persuasion and positive relationships, not about giving an order from the top. Trying to rule like a CEO will get resentment from the teachers, the public, and eventually even the board.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16260807460417787614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25390103638966521372011-03-01T22:38:21.031-08:002011-03-01T22:38:21.031-08:00OK Guppy. Do you really think some students deser...OK Guppy. Do you really think some students deserve a thinking methodology because they're somehow just smarter or test better? I'll answer your questions directly(though it seems like repitition).<br /><br />1) Of course smaller class size is better, but it is better for almost everything. Lower class size wouldn't change a whole curriculum though. You wouldn't use something inferior... just because your class size was smaller. Larger class size doesn't preclude the importance of thinking and discovering. Perhaps you're thinking you just can't expect much from a large class. I disagree. 2) Of course students test into most private schools, that doesn't change the curriculum (again). You don't need to test into the need for thinking do you? 3) And, I believe I already addressed the special ed case. I'm quite familiar with that. Very familiar. Students with disabilities deserve the opportunity to experience curricula requiring thought and discovery, and a range of curricula, for that matter. Students with disabilities need to have challenges beyond the constant spoon feeding. And they can do well with it. In fact, they need it the most of all. Unfortunately, spoon feeding is the usual case for them. And, unfortunately, most private schools do indeed discriminate against people with disabilities, while at the same time, proclaiming a love of diversity. No that is not good, but it has nothing to do with a curriculum choice.<br /><br />ObserverAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83129390461178984102011-03-01T21:03:34.329-08:002011-03-01T21:03:34.329-08:00In response to the questions about a local, qualif...In response to the questions about a local, qualified person to do the job, how about John Welch (Superintendent of Highline Public Schools)? He's an up and comer and has done tremendous work in that district. <br /><br />-Concerned parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81349993721721573142011-03-01T20:34:21.693-08:002011-03-01T20:34:21.693-08:00Wonder if there is interest from within Davis, Wri...Wonder if there is interest from within Davis, Wright & Tremaine. One of their attorney's is very involved with the state's paramont duty to amply fund education.<br /><br />How about a sharp financial person from KPMG?<br /><br />Not excited about inviting government involvement.Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17994654635989591142011-03-01T20:33:51.641-08:002011-03-01T20:33:51.641-08:00Observer did you read what Jan wrote? She said tha...Observer did you read what Jan wrote? She said that she believes Lakeside does well with inquiry math because of the following (and I agree):<br /><br />A) they have small class sizes, 10-16 students, compared to SPS classes of 30. This alone makes a huge difference.<br /><br />B) Kids must test into Lakeside. They get the best, brightest, most motivated kids, with involved, wealthy parents. They weed out the rest. They don't have to deal with them. SPS does, they have to take every student that comes to them.<br /><br />C) Lakeside does not serve many ELL and Special ed students. Seattle Public Schools do.<br /><br />Of course Lakeside students do well with inquiry math. They'd do well with just about any math materials.<br /><br />Can you address the three issues above?<br /><br />Personally, I like inquiry math and my kids have done very well with it. I'm not saying it doesn't work or that we shouldn't use it, however it is just not reasonable to compare Lakeside to SPS. We have to use what works best for SPS students as a whole.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78512239783213199282011-03-01T20:33:44.707-08:002011-03-01T20:33:44.707-08:00The Board meeting has as its first order of busine...The Board meeting has as its first order of business terminate MGJ and DK and assign Enfield as interim Supt.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42598552129752433842011-03-01T20:32:47.198-08:002011-03-01T20:32:47.198-08:00John Stanford was a Superintendent who drove the D...John Stanford was a Superintendent who drove the District to large deficits as he was in command in one of the largest increases in Central administration ever and to this day puts the school District in shortfallls every year or two we enjoy today. Someone like him would not be prudent.KGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14120359550438503094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49745373890631333822011-03-01T20:29:34.149-08:002011-03-01T20:29:34.149-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75510902596032960192011-03-01T20:24:10.648-08:002011-03-01T20:24:10.648-08:00@Maureen said... A new editorial from the Seattle ...<i>@Maureen said... A new editorial from the Seattle Times</i><br /><br />Yeah, they can see the writing on the wall and have finally acknowledged that their horse isn't even going to finish.ArchStantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10746480698492983438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24647323358696575092011-03-01T20:21:21.955-08:002011-03-01T20:21:21.955-08:00I hear you Charlie, and I get what you are saying....I hear you Charlie, and I get what you are saying. And I agree that strong administration/management skills are absolutely essential, but I'd like to see some educational experience as well. That said I think KSB is hands down the best board Director that we have and she is a business woman with no education background whatsoever, so who knows, Charlie is probably right.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10515942469846649812011-03-01T20:13:17.357-08:002011-03-01T20:13:17.357-08:00Jan, I simply don't believe you. I don't ...Jan, I simply don't believe you. I don't know any Lakeside kids doing Kumon. None. Kumon will not help with state standards btw. But I agree, that Lakeside students will probably do well with a number of different types of books. Yet it is interesting that this discovery path is the one school has chosen. Why would that be? I assure you, parents are more than satisfied with it. The math is outsanding there, and it produces superior results. We need thinkers. Thinking and discovering actually makes math more interesting. Yes, it is harder sometimes, when you are actually required to think. Nice as they are, rote mechanics don't stay with you that long. And, I know first hand that discovery math can work well with kids with disabilities. Believe me. I know this first hand, the hard way. Sure, Schmitz Park has had great success for 1 year. Let's see if it continues. And, it isn't exactly a challenged population either.<br /><br />The usual complaint against EDM is lack of multiplication drill. BTW. Same as Singapore... it has no multiplication drill either. Classroom teachers can be expected to provide that on their own without a book can't they?<br /><br />But whatever, lots of proponents of thinking math that are now superintendent candidates. <br /><br />--Observer<br /><br />--ObserverAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52938533318225283232011-03-01T20:06:17.919-08:002011-03-01T20:06:17.919-08:00My ideal candidate for superintendent would be som...My ideal candidate for superintendent would be someone who had success running a creative, knowledge, service, or sales business (architects, lawyers, accountants, sales people, software, etc.) of a comparable size.<br /><br />People from those industries know that all of the value is created by the professionals on the front line and that you have to trust them, you have to give them freedom to do their jobs as they see fit, you have to support them with the tools they need to succeed, and you can still hold them accountable for their performance.<br /><br />I want someone with real management training, a strict business sense, a tight mission focus, and experience establishing internal controls.<br /><br />I want someone who doesn't claim to know about education, but who does know how to set and maintain performance expectations for staff. Someone who won't hesitate to fire people who need to be fired.<br /><br />The central office shouldn't be about academics, it should be about operations, but those operations need to be in service to academics rather than the other way around.<br /><br />For too long in Seattle Public Schools academic priorities were ignored and decisions were driven by operational expediencies. We can't let the operations tail wag the academic dog anymore.<br /><br />I would welcome someone from outside the education business because I don't think the superintendent job should be a job for an educator. I think it should be a job for a manager/administrator.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65350020876743543742011-03-01T20:04:07.973-08:002011-03-01T20:04:07.973-08:00A new editorial from the Seattle Times: The mixed ...A new editorial from the Seattle Times: <a href="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorials/2014368171_edit02supe.html" rel="nofollow">The mixed record of Seattle school Superintendent Maria Goodloe-Johnson.</a> begins: <i>In the nearly four-year tenure of Superintendent Maria Goodloe-Johnson, this page has been a fan, a defender, a critic, even an apologist.</i>Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5078912196222856812011-03-01T19:38:51.110-08:002011-03-01T19:38:51.110-08:00Meg has posted another information packed but hila...<b>Meg</b> has posted another information packed but hilarious piece at <a href="http://dolcenutella.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Dolce & Nutella.</a><br /><br />In it she says:<br /><i> I think it will be a 5-2 vote, with Directors Maier and Martin-Morris saying the Superintendent is still viable as a leader, and Directors Patu, DeBell, Smith-Blum, Carr and Sundquist voting to oust her. </i><br /><br />You know, I saw Maier's face on KIRO tonight when he said he was really angry. I don't always agree with his reasoning, but I believe he is really stressed out about the budget. I'm betting he will vote MGJ off the island because of the $1.8 Million. At least if he doesn't have to vote first. I also believe Harium might vote with the majority if he knows his vote won't make a difference. <br /><br />How is the order determined?Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50535381314782768982011-03-01T18:54:45.714-08:002011-03-01T18:54:45.714-08:00I'm probably going to invite all kinds of trou...I'm probably going to invite all kinds of trouble (and will admit I haven't thought this through super-carefully), but... what if the board talked with the city, and the city helped supply the interim Superintendent? <br /><br />I really am <em>wondering</em>, not declaring. What would the pros be? What would the cons be? For <em>interim</em> Superintendent?<br /><br />Seems like it would be worth considering - it might get us someone with accountability to more than just the board, who is likely to stay in Seattle once the interim gig is over, and who will be from outside of SPS administration. On the other hand, it might also open a huge can of political worms - both for worries of mayoral control, even unofficial, and for local ed reformers to be able to influence issues through city government.Meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795753563127975720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42798563849109878862011-03-01T18:04:43.724-08:002011-03-01T18:04:43.724-08:00I was definitely taking some action that ate this ...I was definitely taking some action that ate this postings. I am wondering why it disappears.<br /><br />FYI<br />David Brewster on Crosscut:<br />http://crosscut.com/blog/crosscut/20140/Open-letter-to-the-Seattle-School-Board/<br />WOW, I left out a "don't" in my last post regarding Brewster's aricle.He is probably still way more into the Gates Foundation and other big businesses as a solution than I am. I believe that they can be a part of the problem when their agendas don't drive education. Educational community needs should drive what they ask of the businesses, letting business know what they need. These big businesses drive too many different agendas and do not always act in the public interest.<br /><br />Of course, this assertion could take hours to argue and supportJoannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05896128847216267770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57259053229570352302011-03-01T17:59:00.242-08:002011-03-01T17:59:00.242-08:00That is I agree with Jan regarding needing to get ...That is I agree with Jan regarding needing to get a Superintendent with the qualities she outlined. Someone who can really manage people and resources with much less of an agenda.<br /><br />"We needed a seasoned people and money manager. Instead, we somehow picked a hard-headed, stubborn ed reformer. Sometimes -- you just choose the wrong person. In my opinion, she is just the wrong person.Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05896128847216267770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17958766682757659692011-03-01T17:39:27.656-08:002011-03-01T17:39:27.656-08:00One consideration for a new superintendent is Dr. ...One consideration for a new superintendent is Dr. Gary Plano of Mercer Island. He is the former superintendent of Kent School District and former union president of Mukilteo School District. He has the leadership and expertise to reach out across the table.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86632804679329664222011-03-01T17:36:58.905-08:002011-03-01T17:36:58.905-08:00Dear "A friend to Seattle:"
You said: ...Dear "A friend to Seattle:"<br /><br />You said: I hear this is one of the issues the district is struggling with in their current district plan.<br /><br />Could you elaborate? I agree with you that there is a lot of "back and forthing" in this area. But I never felt, when this Superintendent came, as though the community had asked for her brand of heavy-handed, ed reform, top down leadership. We needed someone who would take the time to identify District strengths and problems, use District assets to meet needs where available, deal with the SE Initiative problems and the new student assignment plan, etc. We NEVER clamored for standardized curricula, moving principals around willy nilly, closing 5 schools to open 5 more, 110 coaches at a cost of millions, a SEA no confidence vote of over 90%, etc. etc. We needed a seasoned people and money manager. Instead, we somehow picked a hard-headed, stubborn ed reformer. Sometimes -- you just choose the wrong person. In my opinion, she is just the wrong person.Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40539555672959494932011-03-01T17:36:15.298-08:002011-03-01T17:36:15.298-08:00Not to be uncivil but....no other way to say this:...Not to be uncivil but....no other way to say this:<br /><br />John Stanford was all image, no substance, double talking liar and (all in all) a fool.<br /><br />RIP.Been therenoreply@blogger.com