tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post1079268492211109877..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Open Thread for Summit/RBHSMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61420205501163371212009-04-22T13:49:00.000-07:002009-04-22T13:49:00.000-07:00I just want to respond to Samdinista by suggesting...I just want to respond to Samdinista by suggesting that they do their research a little more thoroughly. While they claim that RBHS has nothing going for it and that explains their falling enrollment. Um... what falling enrollment? In 2007-2008 RBHS had 361 students. In 2008-2009 it has 457. How is an increase of over 25% falling enrollment? I would also suggest that Samdinista compare RBHS's WASL scores to those of other schools in the district, including Summit. It might be hard to compare with Summit, however, since Summit can only report scores for two different ethnic groups (real diverse). I will say that the school's scores are particularly impressive for students who are African American or low-income--students who are so frequently overlooked at North end schools.<br /><br />I am not trying to say Summit is a bad school. I have heard great things. I just think that too many people hold uninformed negative opinions about RBHS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29694911240141486602008-12-14T17:02:00.000-08:002008-12-14T17:02:00.000-08:00"If its not broken don't fix it."Instead of killin..."If its not broken don't fix it."<BR/><BR/>Instead of killing a great program in the North because you want to have such a great program in the South... and busing Northern kindergarden children to Rainier Beach was a bad idea.... so now just kill Summit and start a new and similar program in the South...?<BR/><BR/>New Idea EQUITY?<BR/>have great programs in the North and the South?<BR/><BR/>Start gifted and APP programs in the South and push kids into them even when they they fall under the cutoff... place them with extenuating factors into great pullout programs... And while we're at it lets get some great pull out Sped classes for reading in the South so that kids can read by 4th grade? Also while were at it how about increasing gifted education across the board?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Oh I'm sorry I forgot the general Seattle philosophy is put everyone in the same pot and stir until you have lower skills overall? <BR/><BR/>Summit should not be the only point of enrichment. Is it being killed because of a dysfunction or its wealth?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00076148338922529773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45226332676116974792008-12-02T14:08:00.000-08:002008-12-02T14:08:00.000-08:00Good catch, Maureen. I'm sure Melissa just missed ...Good catch, Maureen. I'm sure Melissa just missed them when she was creating the threads last Wednesday, so I've created one now.<BR/><BR/>I'm really interested to hear what Van Asselt and AAA parents/community think of the proposal.Beth Bakemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16827919509722526726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89030476637845124012008-12-02T11:39:00.000-08:002008-12-02T11:39:00.000-08:00It's interesting that there is no place here to po...It's interesting that there is no place here to post on the AAA/Van Asselt move. From what I hear Van Asselt is a successful program and 'deserves' a new building but it seems strange that (1)a K-5 is being placed into a building designed for a K-8 (when K-8s are supposedly so popular and require science labs, etc), (2) Van Asselt will be moved to within four blocks or so of Wing Luke K-5 and (3)the New School is building a new K-8 so close by.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91132211510691233972008-12-02T07:53:00.000-08:002008-12-02T07:53:00.000-08:00Director Martin-Morris has just posted on his blog...Director Martin-Morris has just posted on his blog that the board is looking for a more central building to move summit too. He acknowledged that RBHS is the wrong location for Summit. Contact Director Martin-Morris and let your voice be known.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72431629066031609402008-11-29T16:20:00.000-08:002008-11-29T16:20:00.000-08:00I decided to look up data on the district website ...I decided to look up data on the district website for several high schools - I looked up test scores, school assessments and student surveys.<BR/><BR/>I think the underlying important idea is to look for trends. RBHS is definately making positive gains. Are the test scores and student survey scores the same as at Roosevelt? No they are not. But they're improving.<BR/><BR/>I do have trouble reconciling the Rainier Beach neighborhood issues which I think are not great with the gains made inside the building. But, I believe what Michael is relating and the data proves him correct.<BR/><BR/>We are considering Sealth for our kid because of the IB program. The drop out rates for last year were higher at Sealth than they were for RBHS. There are also issues in the neighborhood around Sealth.<BR/><BR/>Will this keep us from enrolling at Sealth? I don't know. But I'm willing to give the school a good look and a fair shake and not dismiss it out of hand just because of prior history there.<BR/><BR/>I really hope that the SE Initiative and teachers like Michael keep Rainier Beach on the upswing.SE Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537722194376827564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62799078609000370242008-11-29T15:36:00.000-08:002008-11-29T15:36:00.000-08:00Calling RBHS a 'cesspool' was vitriolic, and I apo...Calling RBHS a 'cesspool' was vitriolic, and I apologize. Still, RBHS has the worst reputation of any Seattle high school, and from what I can see, it is well deserved. Reading the most recent student surveys, students at RBHS reported feeling less safe at school, in the class room and in the surrounding neighborhood than respondents from other Seattle High schools. The rate of disciplinary actions is approx. twice the district average. Incidents of bullying were significantly higher at RBHS. RBHS is less diverse than other high schools. A program with barely 400 students should have a thriving feeling of community - it is obvious that RBHS has nothing going for it - which explains its falling enrollment and poor reputation.<BR/>The point of Summit is to be an all city school. Its current location is also a poor match for that mission. Relocating Summit to Meany, TT Minor, or another facility south of the ship canal and north of McClellan would be welcomed by the Summit community. RBHS is not acceptable and non-negotiable. There is no benefit at all - only negatives.samdinistahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02116481965907334323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7695163027764588522008-11-29T06:44:00.000-08:002008-11-29T06:44:00.000-08:00Also, the facilities staff sure seems to play with...Also, the facilities staff sure seems to play with the numbers. It is simply not possible that 100% of Summits population will choose to move anywhere, let alone Rainer Beach. They dismissed several options, only because it would not fit 550 students. They did that even though their proposals had the autism program remaining in the Jane Adams building and the internal disorders program moving to Nova. They didn't even have the courtesy to reduce the enrollment number by just the programs that are removed. <BR/><BR/>And what about Madronna K8? Where are they in step 4 or step 5. Madronna is not a neighborhood school and would be seriously changed in the next assignment plan anyway.katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16390767697578867215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70450299334997061942008-11-28T22:35:00.000-08:002008-11-28T22:35:00.000-08:00Funny thing. Summit would fit nicely at Lowell, bu...Funny thing. Summit would fit nicely at Lowell, but that wasn't even considered. For a district that doesn't seem to be able to find centrally located buildings for all-city draw programs like Summit and APP, we sure will have a lot of empty buildings in the middle of the city, such as Lincoln, John Marshall, McDonald, Sand Point, and now Horace Mann, Lowell, and T T Minor, too. Are we to understand that none of these buildings is a better match for Summit than co-location at Rainier Beach?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30686976783083317112008-11-28T15:33:00.000-08:002008-11-28T15:33:00.000-08:00Hale has space for all Seattle students that apply...Hale has space for all Seattle students that apply, they even have room for about 40 out of district kids.<BR/><BR/>Nova, though full, generally doesn't get a WL, neither does Center.<BR/><BR/>I think Summit HS students would have an above average chance at getting into any of these three schools.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64793682557735157702008-11-28T14:32:00.000-08:002008-11-28T14:32:00.000-08:00I think that Summit HS students should be given th...I think that Summit HS students should be given the opportunity to enroll in either Center, NOVA or Hale. There is an issue with 11th/12th graders coming into Center simply due to the way the cirriculum is set up. But given the circumstances, I think the school could work with this population. I do not know anything about how NOVA is set up.<BR/><BR/>However,there is not enough space to enroll all the Summit students at Center, but if they were given the choice of the three schools listed above, I think they could all be absorbed into these schools. <BR/><BR/>I guess also to be fair, these student should also be given priority into Roosevelt and Ballard, if the school ceases to exist. (and it does sound like the move to RBHS probably won't be a viable option, it just seems so far to travel.)<BR/><BR/>Have no clue how to deal with the K-8 grades. Could they stay and become part of the school moving into the Jane Adamms building?<BR/><BR/><BR/>And...is anybody keeping track of all these suggestions? Many are really good and should be condsidered. I really think we need to think out of the box and that is something that was not done by the district...that is for sure!ParentofThreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853045587227159562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64526408059667086992008-11-28T12:38:00.000-08:002008-11-28T12:38:00.000-08:00Momfirst:I like your idea of merging Summit HS int...Momfirst:<BR/>I like your idea of merging Summit HS into the Center school, but see my post on the "Rushing to make a decision..." thread to see why it's logistically difficult under the present circumstance.<BR/><BR/>This is all just too complex and cannot be easily dealt with. I am also curious as to how the New Student Assignment Plan will impact all of these decisions. Cart before the horse anyone?SolvayGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12709893209963350066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65019781048608609682008-11-28T10:58:00.000-08:002008-11-28T10:58:00.000-08:00Why is the Summit enrollment for 11 and 12th grade...Why is the Summit enrollment for 11 and 12th grade 50% less than it is for 9th and 10th grade? Do they have a 50% drop out rate?<BR/><BR/>Could the high school merge with Center who also only have 50 or 60 kids in 11th and 12th grade?anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-3420624741001502932008-11-28T10:05:00.000-08:002008-11-28T10:05:00.000-08:00re: Summit HS enrollment, from the 2007 Demographi...re: Summit HS enrollment, from the 2007 Demographic Report:<BR/><BR/>Grade 9 11.8% 70<BR/>Grade 10 12.0% 71<BR/>Grade 11 6.1% 36<BR/>Grade 12 6.3% 37<BR/><BR/>Total = 214<BR/><BR/>Percent is percent of total, so seniors made of 6.3% of the school in 2007ParentofThreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853045587227159562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71024597942628986542008-11-28T09:50:00.000-08:002008-11-28T09:50:00.000-08:00I am just remembering that Orca has not really bee...I am just remembering that Orca has not really been mentioned in this discussion about Summit moving to RBHS.<BR/><BR/>Orca started adding their middle school last year and would have added 7th grade this year. I have<BR/>heard that they're doing fine with the process, are still growing and not up to full student capacity.<BR/><BR/>So with Summit at RBHS, the district would have two alternative schools with smaller middle school numbers fairly close to each other.SE Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537722194376827564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78797042041265176652008-11-27T13:32:00.000-08:002008-11-27T13:32:00.000-08:00It would be more honest of the district staff if t...It would be more honest of the district staff if they would stick to their guns and actually recommend closure of schools they think should be closed, rather than go the poison pill route. Two years ago they tried the poison pill on AS#1 and it failed; now, they are at least being honest about what they are doing, and just recommending that it be closed.<BR/><BR/>More generally, I have gotten to be very skeptical of the notion of co-location as a solution to much of anything. The ones that have actually been tried in SPS were dismal failures (APP at Madrona and AS#1 at Bailey Gatzert) and most of the proposed co-locations seem to be ill-advised, at best, and certainly have not been adequately thought through.<BR/><BR/>The one place that I know of that has successfully accomplished co-location is New York City. What is notable is that they do not do co-location to save money (in their experience, it doesn't really save much, if anything). The reason they do it is that they have some absolutely gigantic old buildings that they needed to find creative ways to reuse. Based on what I have read about their successes and failures, and what I know of SPS's history, the notion of a co-location in a small to medium sized building is just silly.<BR/><BR/>If SPS wants to close a program, they really should be able to show enough leadership to just say so. Don't jerk us around with co-location proposals to "save programs" that are questionable right from the start.Roy Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07677294298900083208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20814981195318138552008-11-27T13:22:00.000-08:002008-11-27T13:22:00.000-08:00To SE MomSpeaking only for myself, I think what th...To SE Mom<BR/><BR/>Speaking only for myself, I think what the district did was to take a roundabout way to eliminate the Summit program. The Summit commuinty is losing its building, so they say, "We want a building". The district gives them one that is as far away as possible for most of the memebers of the community, but can say "We gave you a building". I guess this makes Summit more accessable to South End families, but since I know nothing about Summit or what it does, I have no idea of knowing if Summit would be attractive to South End families. <BR/><BR/>My other thought (and this may be way off base) is about Nathan Hale. I have either heard or read that Hale caps its enrollment at a certain number that is under the capacity of the building. If this is true, could the closing of Summit be the districts way of putting pressure on Hale to fill the building? Like I said, I don't know any of the specifics of this, just what I have heard second hand. If this is nonsense, please let me know.<BR/><BR/>Now on to more important matters. Samdinista wrote: There is no way in hell I would allow my son to enter into the cess pool that is RBHS, even if it weren't in the opposite end of town. <BR/><BR/>I wonder what RBHS this person is talking about? The RBHS where I teach is a school on the rise, with an increasing enrollment, that is not on the Federal needs improvement list (joined only by Nathan Hale and Roosevelt), with reading and writing WASL scores above the district average, with a broad range of AP classes, a great performing arts center, a partnership with Broadway Bound to put on a couple of musicals every year, a new music program, and a top notch athletics program. I have to assume this person is talking about another RBHS in a different universe. However, if this person is talking about the RBHS that I teach at, I invite them to come visit. I'm in room 268, I have planning period from 8:00 till 8:50, so if you come after that, you can see what really happens. I would be honored to have you in my classroom and my studetns would love to meet you.Michael Ricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231362823419529183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13036998518812597032008-11-27T12:59:00.000-08:002008-11-27T12:59:00.000-08:00I realize that RB has had changing principals- sat...I realize that RB has had changing principals- sat least one that the district had to pay lots of $$$ to buy out their contract.<BR/><BR/>Summit, has had the same ongoing problem as well, while the current principal has been affiliated with the school for decades- to keep a community going that doesn't easily fit into a category throughout changes in the city and the district, is a job description that needs support & a certain kind of personality.<BR/><BR/>To have strong leadership of the issues that face students and families in elementary school, middle school and high school, takes someone with experience and vision.<BR/><BR/>It is difficult enough to be an urban principal- as we can see from the newspaper.<BR/><BR/>I would also agree, that not just the fact of the sexual assault at RB, because that might happen at any school, but the way it was handled by the administration- indicate that ( lack of) common sense and willingness to follow federal and state laws put students and staff at risk.<BR/><BR/>A few teachers may have be showing academic successes in their classrooms- but safety should be paramount.Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79294396223466470272008-11-27T11:32:00.001-08:002008-11-27T11:32:00.001-08:00Alt Dad, it seems completely unreasonable to thin...Alt Dad, it seems completely unreasonable to think that SE parents will want to send their elementary and/or middle school students to RBHS, or rather, Summit@RBHS. Parents I know, don't even like the idea of sending their kids to the wonderful New School... because of its proximity to RBHS. They have rejected New School as an option because of it. As much progress as RBHS may have made, it's all kinda sullied when you get reports of rapes at the school. Who wants to send their kindergartners to school with that going on? In fact, who'd want to send any of their kids to a school where that is happening? I know people keep saying that "oh... that stuff happens everywhere." I don't buy that.readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02754095597231700863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67062892731067642562008-11-27T11:32:00.000-08:002008-11-27T11:32:00.000-08:00The figures that I am familiar with state that 70%...The figures that I am familiar with state that 70% of Summit students live north of the ship canal, the number to which classof75 is referring.<BR/><BR/>As for the whole south end draw comment, all of the board members who want Summit to continue have repeatedly stated that it needs to remain an all city draw and it needs to be centrally located. This proposal completely ignores that.<BR/><BR/>I feel like this is the aforementioned poison pill and when/if Summit fails, as it is likely to do, it would pull RBHS down with it.<BR/><BR/>On top of everything else, the culture of Summit isn't compatible with RBHS and, due to reputations, many parents, even in the neighborhood, will be hesitant to send their young children to co-house with RBHS.<BR/><BR/>Oddly enough, my son is protected. He is in the special education program that is proposed to move to Nova, which is probably the next best thing for him. However, all of us are attached to Summit and its culture, which has helped my son move from mostly non-functional in a school setting to reaching out to people again. Even if the Internalizing Disorders Program doesn't stay at Summit, I want to help Summit remain a viable program.Melissa 'Liss' Cainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03358922293197519504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28487097823119949382008-11-27T11:26:00.000-08:002008-11-27T11:26:00.000-08:00the easiest way to find the maps is to go to the f...the easiest way to find the maps is to go to the front page of district website and type in data in the search engine.<BR/>That brings up reference maps of where students live and where they go to school.<BR/><BR/>For the high school- it says 208 students were enrolled-<BR/>While @ Summit middle school students can take electives made available for the high school, that isn't always an advantage for a high school student.<BR/><BR/>I wish Summit & As#1 had combined a few years ago, when co-locating was suggested. It would have helped to strengthen Summit's high school, IMO & would have enabled each program to better support after school needs of parents.<BR/>But neither one went for it.<BR/>There isn't a lot of satisfaction in saying I told you so.Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39837608833445903332008-11-27T10:51:00.000-08:002008-11-27T10:51:00.000-08:00Moving Summit without its administration will do l...Moving Summit without its administration will do little to attract the families living in the Southend who are looking for a quality education for their children. And no one seems to be considering the serious problems that RBHS has concerning some student behavior. <BR/><BR/>I think many of the southend parents who have looked/are looking elsewhere for high school would like to see a new administration take charge of RBHS. And I think it would be folly to expect an admin that has been focused on at-risk high school students—though quite effectively—to be effective with alternative elementary and middle-schoolers.<BR/><BR/>I would very much like to hear Michael Rice's comments on all this. Can he see any real benefits for either population?SolvayGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12709893209963350066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64011325695936236342008-11-27T10:28:00.000-08:002008-11-27T10:28:00.000-08:00Just for curiosity, how many kids were enrolled in...Just for curiosity, how many kids were enrolled in the HS portion of Summit? I heard the HS was VERY small, but I don't know the numbers and can't find them on any district site.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41729481418198998812008-11-27T10:26:00.000-08:002008-11-27T10:26:00.000-08:00Hale is somewhat alternative, and small.Center is ...Hale is somewhat alternative, and small.<BR/><BR/>Center is also somewhat alternative and small.<BR/><BR/>For those that need a true, democratic, alternative school, NOVA will remain an option and will be centrally located just south of the Montlake cut, at Meany.<BR/><BR/>There are options.<BR/><BR/>And yes, class of 75 you bring up a very valid point. The lack of middle school capacity in the NE has not been addressed. TC will fill with their current families and the north end AS1 and Summit families, as well as a large spec ed population. The new k-5 at decatur will address the capacity issues for elementary in the NE, but this still leaves a very over crowded Eckstein, and the forecast for much more middle school over crowding in a few years down the road. I don't think TC will alleviate or even help with that.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6530123821151319192008-11-27T10:22:00.000-08:002008-11-27T10:22:00.000-08:00Rather, I think the families who will remain at Su...<I>Rather, I think the families who will remain at Summit will be the 45% that live in the south end, Central Seattle, and/or West Seattle</I><BR/>76 students are from Central Seattle <BR/>32 students are from South Seattle<BR/>20 students from Southeast Seattle<BR/>18 students from West Seattle<BR/><BR/>so moving the school to enroll 146 students?<BR/><BR/>My records from district says that Summit K-12 enrolled 562 students last year- so it must be the new-new math that identifies 146 as 45% of 562.Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.com