tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post1516653678252317083..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Open Thread SundayMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24613865015256367882010-12-30T16:50:32.225-08:002010-12-30T16:50:32.225-08:00Since it is extremely unlikely that Madrona could ...Since it is extremely unlikely that Madrona could actually fill a class with district-identified Spectrum-eligible students at any grade level, there would be plenty of seats in the "Spectrum" class for high performing neighborhood students who didn't meet the eligibility requirements. That's how local kids who are looking for a more challenging academic opportunity would benefit.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60352091067972132292010-12-29T22:14:22.176-08:002010-12-29T22:14:22.176-08:00For January 4th - nationwide sea of red to show su...For January 4th - nationwide sea of red to show support public education...<br /><br /><a href="http://goanimate.com/movie/0d8pwXAs_oag?utm_source=facebook" rel="nofollow">http://goanimate.com/movie/0d8pwXAs_oag?utm_source=facebook</a>Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22991051137855267332010-12-29T12:44:16.439-08:002010-12-29T12:44:16.439-08:00In honesty, even besides the possible quality issu...In honesty, even besides the possible quality issues, I don't see a self-contained gifted program as a solution to the problem at Madrona. First, my older daughter attends Thurgood Marshall, and I have not seen that the presence of APP there (in probably larger numbers than would be present at Madrona with a Spectrum program) has increased the appeal of the school for non-APP parents. Co-locating a program does not automatically improve a school. Second, a self-contained Spectrum program would by definition not be accessible to neighborhood parents, unless they happened to have a Spectrum kid, and parents making the decision whether to send their kindergarten student to Madrona wouldn't be able to access the program, period.<br /><br />Now, locating Spectrum at Madrona might make more sense for the Spectrum kids themselves, because Madrona is more centrally located than Muir. But I don't see Spectrum as the solution for the non-Spectrum Madrona kids.djhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720927162286657378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8271846599542453232010-12-28T15:26:45.918-08:002010-12-28T15:26:45.918-08:00I don't know if Spectrum at Madrona would suff...I don't know if Spectrum at Madrona would suffer the same problems as Spectrum at Leschi, or not. There was a time (many years ago) when the reputation of the early Spectrum grades at Leschi was fine -- but there were problems in one of the upper grades. Many parents either chose different Spectrum programs because of that (our solution) or put their children in Leschi for the early grades, and then removed them to Muir's spectrum program (or another one) thereafter. Given the passage of time, I would think that issue may well be resolved. So -- if Spectrum is placed at Madrona, it may well have more success than Leschi's program did. As I see it, its success depends on three things:<br />1. The backing of the principal (principals who fundamentally disapprove of any ability grouping, or are ashamed of having a Spectrum program -- and my impression is that there are schools where this appears to be the case) are unlikely to have flourishing Spectrum programs.<br />2. The staff. A principal can only do so much, and few want to try replacing their entire staffs if they hate Spectrum. Because Madrona has been SO focused on academic achievement, perhaps staff there will welcome the opportunity to have a series of self-contained (as defined and implemented by the District) classes working one grade advanced, and with "deeper" curriculum. If they have the staff, students, and parents to do it, they may even be able to do what one school (Kimball?) did and make the whole school "Spectrum" -- with the right supports for struggling kids, of course.<br />3. Parents: the very idea of giving Madrona two "tracked" programs creates a certain degree of anxiety, given the horrible problems of trying to house APP there years ago. But, the neighborhood may have become more accepting. If a significant number of parents want it in, and are willing to work with the rest of the school community to try to make it a "win" for the school all around (this is what it seemed to me Spectrum parents at Wedgwood tried to do when we were there -- with some success), it might be a great solution.Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38815627718633782202010-12-28T00:21:27.851-08:002010-12-28T00:21:27.851-08:00I understand that it is hard to believe that Spect...I understand that it is hard to believe that Spectrum at Madrona would be, well, anything.<br /><br />You would have to rely on the District's pride being tied up in the program's success.<br /><br />I wonder about the ALO programs they created at Dunlap, MLK, Emerson and Van Asselt. At the time Dr. Vaughan told the Board that these would not be "ALOs in name only". So what are they like?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73391710262618401682010-12-27T19:25:27.787-08:002010-12-27T19:25:27.787-08:00Please note that Washington STEM is a sub-group of...Please note that Washington STEM is a sub-group of Partnership for Learning, a big Downtown Biz group along the lines of the Alliance. <br /><br />Here is <a href="http://www.partnership4learning.org/node/2860" rel="nofollow">the link</a> that shows how it is in partnership with the omni-present Our Schools Coalition as well as a big backer of Stand for Children and the UW's Center for Reinventing Public Education.Central Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411595538958030193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62142881986164067632010-12-27T18:48:07.413-08:002010-12-27T18:48:07.413-08:00Why wouldn't the folks funding the STEM projec...Why wouldn't the folks <a href="http://www.waldronhr.com/files/STEM_Dev%20Director%20Final%2012.6.10.pdf" rel="nofollow"></a>funding the STEM project jump at developing a k-8?<br /><br />How about this for anticipated dollars coming in:<br /><br />"Operating Budget: $5.4 Million (Projected 2011), to $10 Million annually Projected funding: $100 Million Over 10-years"<br /><br />"Washington STEM is a newly formed nonprofit organization that works to catalyze innovation in Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM) teaching and learning in Washington State. Washington STEM advocates for and impacts policies and practices that will rapidly scale STEM education innovation, support educators in preparing students throughout Washington State for success in postsecondary education and work opportunities, particularly those students who have historically been underserved."uxolohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01595802010492801183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91615570489165021422010-12-27T18:40:31.438-08:002010-12-27T18:40:31.438-08:00Charlie, a lot of parents around here are skeptica...Charlie, a lot of parents around here are skeptical about Spectrum at Madrona based on Spectrum at Leschi. I think if Spectrum were a standardized, high-quality-at-all-sites program, that would not be the case, but you know better than anyone that this is not the case.djhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720927162286657378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71595445417894451792010-12-27T17:05:28.834-08:002010-12-27T17:05:28.834-08:00This year and last year I proposed the relocation ...This year and last year I proposed the relocation of the the Washington Service Area Spectrum program to Madrona. It would, at once, provide area families with the confidence that the school would serve high performing students, attract high performing students to the school, provide the service area with a more central location for the program, and provide middle school Spectrum seats for when the Spectrum program at Washington fills.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82713352236641317532010-12-27T16:29:13.212-08:002010-12-27T16:29:13.212-08:00Madrona needs an overhaul, for sure. What is ther...Madrona needs an overhaul, for sure. What is there isn't working and that there are reasonable numbers of parents who want to send their child to the school but don't like the program should be enough to move the district (at least this time around). <br /><br />I leave it to those involved to figure out what will work. I have to wonder about a half immersion/half regular school but again, that could be worked out. <br /><br />But I'm sorry, I do not buy into the idea that somehow with a few more schools the Board will suddenly see the light and make them Option schools. The buy-in needs to come now and not later. Staff is working the whole enrollment plan around them being neighborhood schools so they don't want to change them.<br /><br />I'm surprised this hasn't been a big topic before now. The Board votes on the Transition Plan mid-January.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72592792755095644032010-12-27T16:05:55.053-08:002010-12-27T16:05:55.053-08:00Melissa, how about advocating that Madrona be turn...Melissa, how about advocating that Madrona be turned into an *option* K-8 with an immersion program? That would seem reasonable, and would get a program into an area of the city that doesn't have one and would I think make it easier to argue that all of the immersion programs be option programs (as they would be more equitably distributed and easier to get kids to, transportation-wise).<br /><br />I have not talked to a single parent around here who has said they would send their kid to Madrona if the school only had a bit of a performing arts focus. The fact of the matter is that the school is not being used by the neighborhood and it is going to take something fairly attractive to get it filled. <br /><br />I have not personally talked to staff at Madrona about such a program. I would think you'd have to do a fair amount of staff reshuffling to open an immersion school, not because of buy-in, but because of the fact that most teachers in a non-immersion school probably aren't fluent in another language.djhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720927162286657378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31494531175307366212010-12-27T15:57:57.377-08:002010-12-27T15:57:57.377-08:00Very interesting article in the NY Times today abo...Very interesting article in the NY Times today about teacher rankings based on test scores:<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/27/nyregion/27teachers.html?src=me&ref=general<br /><br />Sorry I still can't do the live links.JamieCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91066737860383617522010-12-27T15:51:29.295-08:002010-12-27T15:51:29.295-08:00A number of rising Madrona kindergarten parents ar...<i>A number of rising Madrona kindergarten parents are writing to board members to urge placing a language immersion program in the school.</i><br /><br /><b>dj,</b> have they made any attempt to include the Madrona staff? At a recent Sherry Carr coffee, she made it clear that they are trying to take staff and community member opinions into account when they design new programs--the implication is that programs don't succeed without buy in from the staff. That, of course, makes it much easier to place a new program in a new school as opposed to an established one (I thought I heard recently that Madrona families (and staff?) were asking the board to consider a performing arts focus?)<br /><br />Or are the preK families advocating Madrona be closed (due to lack of AYP under NCLB) and reopened as an immersion school?Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56777948189756755152010-12-27T15:28:49.950-08:002010-12-27T15:28:49.950-08:00Sahila: thanks for the ksdcitizens link. I thoug...Sahila: thanks for the ksdcitizens link. I thought it was persuasive, and I have sent it on to a number of people with whom I debate education funding/education reform issues. There are an astonishing number of people who somehow sense the untruth of the current edreform issues, and yet want to see the influx of money and "help" as good, not bad, things. I especially like it because of its absence of any if the sort of things (inflammatory language, sarcasm, etc.) I fall into sometimes. It makes it easy to send to people who are not (yet at least) "outraged" without making them feel like they've landed on another planet. Great resource.Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29322749605697254032010-12-27T15:20:28.927-08:002010-12-27T15:20:28.927-08:00So, Melissa: is it possible to advocate for an OPT...So, Melissa: is it possible to advocate for an OPTION immersion language program at Madrona, to run side by side with the regular attendance area program -- and with a geo zone that takes in the entire WMS middle school area?<br /><br />I think the understanding would need to be that if the non LI program dwindles to a certain size (or the option program expands to fill the entire school), the District would have the option of moving the non-LI attendance portion to another school (like Leschi).<br /><br />I totally concede your points on equity, but I hate to see the District's willful mismanagement undermine parental support for needed changes (like more LI programs, and LI programs in areas now underserved). I have a feeling that if we could get ENOUGH LI programs going, we could maybe convince the board to "switch" them all to option programs, and to direct the Supe to "fill out" any remaining gaps -- so that they exist in all parts of the city -- but one program at a time. Think how long it took to get them to replicate JSIS at Beacon Hill!?! And now, we suddenly have McDonald. We haven't had any success getting the Board or District management to see this issue on a global, "logical" basis. Maybe we can achieve our objective on a more incremental basis -- one school at a time.Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31236926382462929092010-12-27T12:29:57.948-08:002010-12-27T12:29:57.948-08:00I'm not advocating for any more language immer...I'm not advocating for any more language immersion programs until they are Option schools. It's just not fair to have a wildly popular program only available to certain neighborhoods. There is no equity in this program and there needs to be.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37270295724254736622010-12-27T11:46:35.655-08:002010-12-27T11:46:35.655-08:00My kid is at John Stanford. It's too early fo...My kid is at John Stanford. It's too early for us to tell from personal experience, but from what I gather from teachers and other parents the program is worthwhile.<br /><br />I've talked with a language teacher at Hamilton and was told that the kids from the immersion programs often don't come in with very good grammar, but that their oral comprehension is excellent. The teacher felt that she could talk to kids as she would talk to a native speaker, and they all would understand what she was saying. <br /><br />That teacher also said that she didn't feel like kids gained much in the way of real language skills in the supplementary lanaguage classes offer at non-immersion schools. She said kids usually come in knowing things like numbers, animals, body parts and not much else.<br /><br />Parents have told me that native speakers often compliment their immersion kids on their accents, so the kids do get some value on the productive language side as well.<br /><br />I get the impression that the middle school language classes try to fill in the formal details of the language that aren't emphasized in elementary classes.Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16540428343439198125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89430050188003145322010-12-27T11:24:56.905-08:002010-12-27T11:24:56.905-08:00I have a question about the language immersion pro...I have a question about the language immersion programs. Is there information about what level of fluency non-home speakers are acquiring from these programs? Anecdotal would be good, if anyone has personal experience. I know that they're highly popular with a particular population in Seattle (i.e. higher SES families who think that language immersion will be an enriching opportunity for their families). But, do they work? <br /><br />I'm particularly interested in knowing how well they work for families where the language being learned in school isn't a language that the family/parents have familiarity with. I've heard good things about the private French school in the Seattle area. Are people similarly pleased with John Stanford? <br /><br />I am of the opinion that non-immersion language enrichment classes (offered in a number of private schools) in elementary are not particularly effective and I'd like to know more about the success of the immersion programs.zbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205346985598789513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75726551827917895882010-12-27T10:50:55.303-08:002010-12-27T10:50:55.303-08:00A number of rising Madrona kindergarten parents ar...A number of rising Madrona kindergarten parents are writing to board members to urge placing a language immersion program in the school. You want the building full? Access to language immersion in Central? Diverse students with access? No need for a middle school pathway because Madrona is K-8? That is how to do it. If anyone wants to help out by writing to the board members to help out, that would be just super. And if these schools became option schools, Madrona is well-located to take in kids from a lot of neighborhoods.<br /><br />Wv: This would really get the school pappindjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720927162286657378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75767888395626783162010-12-27T10:49:10.322-08:002010-12-27T10:49:10.322-08:00"Do those schools have access to other funds ..."Do those schools have access to other funds that allow the same kind of math tutoring to occur?"<br /><br />Hasn't the board approved contracts for outside tutoring services as required by NCLB. I seem to recall Sylvan getting a $1 million contract. How does that work in the schools?ParentofThreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853045587227159562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8909195071877351702010-12-27T10:49:03.184-08:002010-12-27T10:49:03.184-08:00I see that Congressman Jim McDermott voted FOR the...I see that Congressman Jim McDermott voted FOR the stopgap appropriations bill. In that case, he voted FOR recognizing recent college grads with five weeks training as "highly qualified" under No Child Left Behind.<br /><br />I briefly discussed ed reform with McDermott this summer. He said he was opposed to many of the corporate-minded moves to screw up public education. I am going to ask him why he voted for this assinine language in the bill (pun intended).<br /><br /><a href="https://forms.house.gov/mcdermott/webforms/contact.shtml" rel="nofollow">Contact Rep. McDermott</a>StopTFAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08605108615707039386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38161940495018749712010-12-27T10:14:01.978-08:002010-12-27T10:14:01.978-08:00ZB
When I was working on school budgets it was du...ZB<br /><br />When I was working on school budgets it was during WSF. We always looked at other school budgets during the process. Our students, in a middle class school with low F/R lunch got less than half of their state per student funding. Similar size schools in the south end got double the amount of funding (including title 1 & LAP $) <br /><br />Our budget was so slim that there was no funding for any adult other than classroom teachers, minimum PCP, Principal, cafeteria person & office staff. We were below contract minimum for office staff, for which we were given a waiver, not more staff. We also had less than minimum required lunch staff that had to be made up with volunteers. It was deeply ingrained in our school culture that we should not ask for more money because schools with higher F/R lunch numbers needed it so much more. We should make do anyway we could including asking retired teachers to give the DRA & charging fees for things like tutors or instrumental music. Those fees didn't even come close to making up the difference. We were never able to hire an actual teacher or counselor just extra help here & there. We resented the poor state funding levels, but not the WSF. <br /><br />I have not seen school budgets from the poorer schools since WSS came in. But my impression is that everyone got cuts & more of it went to the central admin. I think that changing the Title 1 qualifying percentage took many extra staff out of buildings that desperately needed them.old salthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07971380233996439817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72939392021287591942010-12-27T10:11:17.927-08:002010-12-27T10:11:17.927-08:00I think you'd be surprised how much support so...I think you'd be surprised how much support south end schools get. Financially. And how that translates to services. I just had a quick look at Rainier Beach HS to see what they offered.<br /><br />They have:<br /><br />algebra lab :This support class, offered currently both after school and during the day, is designed to help students be more successful in their regular Algebra A/B class.<br /><br />Geometry lab which is the same as above but for geometry students <br /><br />Applied mathematics: Taught through vocational education department. <br /><br />Life Science: This is a second science course for students who were not successful at biology. <br /><br />University of WA Tutors that work on sight with RBHS students.<br /><br />Resources from the community: support programs including MESA (Math,Engineering, Science Achievement), Upward Bound (federally funded college prep program), Steps Ahead, ATLAS community, Natural Helpers, Conflict Managers<br /><br />Drug/alcohol intervention team, and re-entry specialist.<br /><br />An integrated performing arts program. With multiple community partners, students have unique opportunities to learn from visiting artists while building skills in music, visual art, and movement/dance<br /><br />A total of 29 community partners, in addition to the PTSA, supporting academics, college planning and social/emotional needs<br /><br />Full-Service Community Schools provide comprehensive academic, social, and health services for students, students’ family members, and community members that will result in improved educational outcomes for children.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22193558012445223432010-12-27T09:26:06.127-08:002010-12-27T09:26:06.127-08:00"It's the "taking for granted" ..."It's the "taking for granted" that gets me. Too many parents think it is the status quo and don't see the problem. So they feel no pressure to try to change the system. I just want more people to be aware of this."<br /><br />So what happens in schools where the parents can't afford to pay (or raise private funds)? Do those schools have access to other funds that allow the same kind of math tutoring to occur? There's a suggestion here that they do (through government funds). But, another commenter int the Eckstein thread said that they knew of examples of kids who don't get tutoring when they do poorly in the WASL. <br /><br />I'm guessing that students in other schools don't get offered private instruction in music (even if their parents were to offer to pay for it). <br /><br />I continue to find the degree of private financing in SPS to be troublesome and problematic because of the inequities it creates. Bake sales to put some paintings on the walls, well, I'm not upset about that. But, extra teachers, privately funded? That sounds a bit too much like my tax dollars being used to create publicly subsidized private education. Yes, anyone who lives in the neighborhood zone can attend, but if those zones are writ sufficiently small, they become pretty exclusive (as they are for McGilvra & Montlake, the two schools folks cite most frequently as having hired extra teachers). <br /><br />I believe that the SPS policy has changed about hiring teachers on private funds, though, hasn't it? <br /><br />If not, one has to wonder if this could be another backdoor subsidy/plan for TFA teachers.zbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205346985598789513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17879096599237677202010-12-27T09:08:15.153-08:002010-12-27T09:08:15.153-08:00Dan, the pdf won't open - link take us to box....Dan, the pdf won't open - link take us to box.net, but file doesn't open or download.<br />Looking forward.uxolohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01595802010492801183noreply@blogger.com