tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post1780814942556490906..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Want to Keep Those After-School Activities?Melissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger89125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25672942038036100872014-01-25T22:50:00.464-08:002014-01-25T22:50:00.464-08:00The thing that's really circular... "the ...The thing that's really circular... "the district will convene Section 504 meetings"<br /><br />Uhhhh. Why will the district "convene a Section 504 meeting" if the district is NOT responsible for the student's accommodations? Are we supposed to believe that they're holding the meetings because they're such nice people? You don't convene a meeting if you aren't the responsible party. Duh. The language itself is contradictory. And points back at the district!<br /><br />If the district IS responsible for the student and IS responsible for conducting the 504 meeting, then it can't just decide what's going to be in the 504 plan before the actual meeting. (That's why parents and other people are EQUAL parties in the plan.)<br /><br />And, what about students who have IEPs instead of 504's? THe district has always maintained that you don't need a 504 plan if you have an IEP. They better be really careful! Some accommodations might just get slipped into an IEP... that lands the responsibility right back in their lap. Try as they might to punt this football.<br /><br />-sped parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16585170437655858402014-01-24T13:28:33.462-08:002014-01-24T13:28:33.462-08:00Yes, Mirmac. Listening to the board meeting sectio...Yes, Mirmac. Listening to the board meeting section on this topic you could see that English was kind of making it up as he went along, comparing apples to oranges. Carr tried to mitigate this but her intervention just called attention to the thinness of his claims. <br /><br />Hoping that the Board requests the report from the outside attorney they said that they consulted with. <br /><br />ReaderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20831549197742825752014-01-24T12:24:30.683-08:002014-01-24T12:24:30.683-08:00Interesting. I checked the veracity of English...Interesting. I checked the veracity of English's claim that Tacoma and Bellevue have procedures in place like the one proposed for facilities use and accomodations. That is not true.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.tacoma.k12.wa.us/information/schoolboard/Policy%20Manual/4260R.pdf" rel="nofollow">Tacoma 4260R</a> <br /><br /><a href="http://www.bsd405.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=ppFnkptxhBE%3d&tabid=1297&mid=14554" rel="nofollow">Bellevue 4260</a>mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36219806417623867572014-01-24T09:58:04.325-08:002014-01-24T09:58:04.325-08:00HP,
Don't worry. A quick glance at Melissa&#...HP,<br /> <br />Don't worry. A quick glance at Melissa's Twitter feed shows she's reporting on WA State Charter Commissions Public Forums this week and probably attending them.<br /><br />Anyone have any news about the delay on the finalists announcement for the K5 Math curriculum adoption? <br /><br />-Was ThereAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76797013301187079672014-01-24T08:14:43.979-08:002014-01-24T08:14:43.979-08:00I'm sure there are important side projects and...I'm sure there are important side projects and issues taking their attention.<br /><br />Hope there's a Friday Open Thread so we can share info. I have an interesting tidbit.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16665982944127027882014-01-24T07:39:13.798-08:002014-01-24T07:39:13.798-08:00What happened to Melissa and Charlie? Neither hav...What happened to Melissa and Charlie? Neither have updated this blog since Monday. Melissa last commented on this thread on Tuesday. No Open Thread on Tuesday. No reports on any meetings. It is very strange. Hoping they are both okay.<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7604719051096480122014-01-24T00:58:23.340-08:002014-01-24T00:58:23.340-08:00I keep waiting for karma to bite Ron English on th...I keep waiting for karma to bite Ron English on the butt.<br />He is way overdue.Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12558593717222795162014-01-23T23:11:49.493-08:002014-01-23T23:11:49.493-08:00No intentional boorishness here, but listening to ...No intentional boorishness here, but listening to English's dissembling, I feel like puking. Just the usual 'we've created some kind of false emergency so we'll do some seat-of-the pants junk, then when we're caught in the act we'll convene an "internal" working group to do damage control.' And retroactive public engagement will begin tomorrow.<br /><br />An agency that offers substantial support, and wishes to continue receiving federal funds, then uh they have to comply with the federal law. No amount of "benchmarks" or "urgency" or falsely claiming they wish to "help the children now" erases this duty. <br /><br />I'm amazed at how much our legal department claims to not know when they cook up this stuff: how many kids this may impact (unknowable because so many parents are told their kids can't participate); how much this may cost; what third-parties might fall under this policy etc.<br /><br />English thinks after school programs don't apply to FAPE or educational activities. He should read the proposed policy itself, which define "school support organizations" as those that "support youth education and the mission of their school." This is the district that wants its cake and eat it too. We're not talking about Basic Education. And the false dichotomy is typical of the same ole slick spiels offered up to the board (e.g. handing 10 yrs of educational records to CCER is no different than what SPS does for the Feds. Uh, no.)<br /><br />As I hyperventilate into a paper bag, I take pause to say I am disappointed in Director Carr's defense of admin's shoddy work. I believe that, once she reads the law and OCR guidance documents, she would realize that the proposed procedure is indefensible.<br /><br />But let them try to enact it. I am already drafting the OCR complaint.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73318222518971327622014-01-23T21:34:47.003-08:002014-01-23T21:34:47.003-08:00I think the basic point is this, we can't all...I think the basic point is this, we can't all, as a community, keep looking for ways to do things on the cheap, essentially by robbing certain students over and over again of opportunities. This is true for "volunteers", and true for the schools themselves. And, it really doesn't matter who has to cough it up. If there's some special art program, or robotics program - but well, we can't include this group or that one. Then, bottom line, you don't get to have that activity until you come up with more resources or ways of serving students. There's a reason these things are expensive for schools. That reason also exists for volunteers. If you can't afford it for everybody, you can't afford it for anybody. Period. Ron English seems to want to push this out to the providers - who will then have to make that hard choice. But, only because the district has already basically said it can't afford these activities for everybody either. I'm sure Ron English is hoping that there's no way for families to really sue all these little organizations and that the status quo will reign supreme. Make no mistake though, that status quo is cheap activities on the backs of the disabled. Their parents pay to have a building (that their kids don't get to fully use), their parents pay for those volunteering staff (though we choose to call those extra things "free"), their parents pay for staff to run the newletters and office staff that inevitably get sucked in.<br /><br />Really, this whole thing is an end run around IDEA and the ADA. If schools didn't have all these freebies (which really aren't fee to those who don't get them) then they would be forced into spending more on regular enrichment. If people could just get a bunch of services that look like freebies, then they might vote to provide better funding for their schools. When they know <i>their</i> kid can benefit from these private efforts, then they have no incentive to ever vote in adequate funding for everyone.<br /><br />-Reader 1Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63639833621783229212014-01-23T21:04:27.620-08:002014-01-23T21:04:27.620-08:00"I'd rather see district money spent on s...<i>"I'd rather see district money spent on smaller class sizes than supporting after-school enrichment programs."</i> <br /><br />I'm not imagining a budget item as much as intentional, proactive collaboration from the district with volunteer- and parent-funded enrichment and academic-support programs. And if the district would simply get their own policies straight, more teachers would participate in after-school programs, which is one of the most sustainable, affordable options for parent-funded programs. The district keeps inadvertently making it harder for us to run the programs that they don't. And there's no one in the district tasked with looking at the whole picture. The impact of every confusing policy, nonsensical regulation and unresolved issue (like the teacher-pay one) makes it all the harder for even parent groups to run programs for kids. The impact is even greater on schools with more low-income families, those with no Title I funding, no levy funded programs, and fewer parent volunteers and dollars to make up the difference. <br /><br />HIMS mom -- yes, that is the problem. I find it ironic to hear an argument that the justification for shifting the 504 mandate onto PTAs/PTOs is because we receive "significant assistance from the district". Um, isn't it the other way around? <br /><br />If you didn't hear the discussion last night, the school board meeting is being rebroadcast right now (channel 26). The 4260 discussion should be sometime after 10pm. It's at least 20 minutes and starts with a presentation by General Counsel, Ron English.<br /><br />BetsyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19732034532520567752014-01-23T20:35:48.228-08:002014-01-23T20:35:48.228-08:00Betsy said: "We’re not outside organizing tha...Betsy said: "We’re not outside organizing that happen to “use” district facilities; we're more of a backdoor way that the district can get a lot of things done, get extra funding and manpower, without being limited by all the regulations of a school district or district employee."<br /><br />Uh, that sounds like exactly why this is a problem, no?<br /><br />HIMSmom Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85260236502989204822014-01-23T20:20:48.251-08:002014-01-23T20:20:48.251-08:00This is not an either/or proposition. I chastised...This is not an either/or proposition. I chastised the district last night for presenting it as such.<br /><br />In my line of work, agencies are granted millions in Fed $$s. In return, they are obligated to NOT perpetuate discrimination. They must hire veterans, the disabled, and minorities. They must Buy America utilize small, local businesses, recyle etc. They must do many things - some that have higher priority to some people than others. Either way, it is a condition these grant recipients must meet. No ifs, ands or buts. And for the district to make it out like, meh, we don't wanta, well, that's a non-starter. I think Ron English got that message last night. <br /><br />So although the district is not obligated to put in place "performance-based compensation systems", broad data-sharing arrangements with whomever wants your private info, foreign-language immersion, transportation to elective programs, the Alliance's pet TFA/misc programs, IB or various academies, etc etc, they ARE required NOT to perpetuate discriminatory practice.<br /><br />This policy/procedure will not be approved as written. And I hope this latest district screw-up is the last that has parents fighting for the crusts while Road Map and Gates projects sidle up to the bar for another round.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14394840972311088982014-01-23T19:12:40.332-08:002014-01-23T19:12:40.332-08:00I'd rather see district money spent on smaller...I'd rather see district money spent on smaller class sizes than supporting after-school enrichment programs. Our spending has to be prioritized, and until the state provides adequate funding for the basics, I don't think these programs should be anywhere near the top of the list. Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84433167029732383342014-01-23T18:04:41.540-08:002014-01-23T18:04:41.540-08:00(continuing...)
Back to the topic of accommodation...(continuing...)<br />Back to the topic of accommodations...Community-Alignment organizations are a good question. Powerful Schools, YMCAs, Boys and Girls Club, after-school childcare, and other group would seem to be under a higher-level of obligation at least to the extent that they receive public funding. Anyone know what they're doing now? Are childcare providers and levy-funded programs obligated to meet and (when needed) pay for the same 504 accommodations a child receives during the day?<br /><br />BetsyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53993068690611727702014-01-23T18:03:27.862-08:002014-01-23T18:03:27.862-08:00The typical 10-week PTA-organized program is defin...The typical 10-week PTA-organized program is definitely at issue here. Both the type where a small business or non-profit is brought in to offer an art or drama class and the type where a parent volunteer leads a newspaper or math club. Tuition in classes with a paid instructor is either set by the provider (vendor) or negotiated by the PTA. There is often a moderate fee for parent-led volunteer clubs to cover materials, but volunteer leaders aren't paid. Classes and programs are often cobbled together by volunteers, with or without much school support or district guidance.<br /><br />In an ideal world, all such programs would be well organized, with dedicated (even paid?) coordinators that inherit institutional knowledge and know where to go for guidance on a variety of requirements (e.g. district, PTA governance, and insurance). Coordinators would have support and oversight from a well-informed PTA/PTO board that has established policies and practices for such matters as insurance requirements, student supervision, tracking and verification of background checks for all instructors and volunteers, agreements with providers and volunteers, provision of scholarships, etc. And they would work hand-in-hand with the school.<br /><br />But we're talking about parent volunteer organizations that are already stretched for volunteer hours. And we're talking about busy principals and school staff that have no mandate from the district to work collaboratively with PTAs/PTOs on enrichment programs. There are a few programs with stable, supportive school situations that have been able to achieve pretty good models. But the coordinator job is a burnout job, usually with little support or guidance, and new coordinators every year or two. Programs and PTAs/PTOs are not all equal in resources or management, and ascribing the federal mandate for 504 accommodations on every one of them, as-is, seems not only legally misguided but unwise for all involved. And it could set up false expectations for families with special needs kids.<br /><br />The argument that school-support organizations (PTAs/PTOs/booster groups) are "using" district facilities and are "receiving significant assistance" from the district (as general counsel argued in the school board meeting last night)--and are therefore subject to the section 504 mandate--turns on its head the district-identified role as “school support organizations.” As described in policy 4120, PTAs, PTOs and other recognized school-support organization exist solely to support the mission of the school. We’re not outside organizing that happen to “use” district facilities; we're more of a backdoor way that the district can get a lot of things done, get extra funding and manpower, without being limited by all the regulations of a school district or district employee. They’re shooting themselves in the foot if they break our ability to continuing maintain programs that provide enrichment in places the district doesn’t. <br /><br />What is the district funded and provided a baseline level of enrichment programs and after-hours academic support at ALL schools? Optional involvement of a school’s teachers (paid a stipend or hourly wage) could go a long way toward establishment of affordable, sustainable, quality programs at all schools. But today, many teachers are discouraged from leading classes or clubs because of confusion over ethics rules, contract obligations, and questions over insurance and pay. And how about if the district had even one effective staff person dedicated to providing guidance and support for all program coordinators—especially volunteers? Oh, the obstacles a competent person who cares could help clear or prevent! The district needs a policy and proactive approach to either providing or at least supporting enrichment programs — for all students.<br /><br />(more...)<br /><br />BetsyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61187794630493196212014-01-23T16:49:13.756-08:002014-01-23T16:49:13.756-08:00We have had free activities offered by parents.
Wh...We have had free activities offered by parents.<br />Which is why I asked about it. <br />-TCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50475701210101301362014-01-23T16:01:26.803-08:002014-01-23T16:01:26.803-08:00Are there really free classes? I have never exper...Are there really free classes? I have never experienced this at private or public school. Low cost, yes. Free, no.<br /><br />Gen Ed MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19911473889370479302014-01-23T15:42:32.617-08:002014-01-23T15:42:32.617-08:00Or a free after school class fun by a parent who j...Or a free after school class fun by a parent who just wanted to share cool math/robotics/computer/chess whatever… and the school says sure use the space and help the kids.<br />I know everyone at our school would want everyone who want to to be able to do it, but<br />a) I don't know that I would want random parent in on private meetings about student info, great as random parent might be and<br />b) if the need was super expensive is the parent offering free class apposed to pay? Everyone in the free class? I don't understand. <br />-totally confusedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75962049896062941582014-01-23T14:29:21.914-08:002014-01-23T14:29:21.914-08:00So where does an organization like Powerful School...So where does an organization like <b>Powerful Schools</b> (which provides after-school enrichment to elementary schools in the Southend regardless of PTA activity)) fit into this? They charge a fee, and have scholarships for low-income kids. I believe the District provides busses (but who knows what's going to happen to that now?). I'm not 100% certain about that, but know I have seen yellow buses at the school at 4:30.<br /><br />And what about <b>Girl Scouts/Boy Scouts/Campfire</b>? Individual troops are volunteer-run—though don't always meet at a school (our's did not). I don't see how a small troop could provide an ASL interpreter or a nurse to a child who needed one. Many troops have a hard enough time getting one–two parents to serve as Troop Leaders. I assume this is something the Regional and National offices could take on, but not 100% sure how it would all work out logistically.<br /><br />It is definitely an issue that needs to be thought-out and managed with all of the stakeholders involved. Sadly, in the end it comes down to money as is so often the case. Somehow I don't see the District taking on the cost without being forced to by the government. <br /><br />Too bad Gates won't champion children with disabilities to help make it feasible to provide after-school activities to all kids.<br /><br />Solvay GirlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1155558293930923042014-01-23T13:41:41.924-08:002014-01-23T13:41:41.924-08:00DifferentD. That is indeed the question. Which a...DifferentD. That is indeed the question. Which afterschool activity are we talking about? And does it count as a "school sponsored extracurricular" or not? If something is a school sponsored extracurricular activity, then IDEA applies to it without question. High school sports and yearbook are 100% school-sponsored extracurricular activities. They are funded by the district after all. We disability advocates interpret "extracurricular" activities to be almost anything that happens at school that is readily available to students. IDEA also says that the district must provide equal access to extracurricular activity. Especially if the school is involved in any way, you would say it is sponsored. We definitely include afterschool care, parks and rec programs, OST programs. Does the school provide support to the activity by giving it space at below market value? Does the entity give the school's kids a special discount? Are there chaperones from the school? Does the school enforce discipline for the entity? Is school communication used to organize the activity?<br /><br />Our district would like to wash its hands of ANY responsibility for disability support by claiming that most of these activities are simply something irrelevant happening on school grounds. That is the intent of tis new policy.<br /><br />As to the proposals for accommodation: Here are some examples. Accommodation for Sign Language. Accommodation for extra breaks. Extra support persons for safety. Support person for assistance managing gear or changing clothing. Extra instruction in the activity. Social coaching/instruction during the activity. (some of these accommodations are actually specially designed instruction).<br /><br />-Another special ed parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30490189070263779382014-01-23T13:08:07.011-08:002014-01-23T13:08:07.011-08:00I want to ask some questions that I think will com...I want to ask some questions that I think will come across poorly as tone-deaf, so please take my questions with the thought that I just want to understand these issues better. <br /><br />Are we talking about the 10-week after school classes that some PTAs organize in elementary schools, or is this about the school-organized activities--sports, band, yearbook, and the like--that get mentioned in the yearbook at the middle and high school level? <br /><br />Are kids being turned away from programs because they have disabilities? Or are we simply not even seeing them apply as part of the audience for these classes because their parents don't even consider it worth their time to push for accommodations? <br /><br />And are there some examples of what kind of accommodations this is proposing? I saw the article mention a visual timer for a deaf runner. Are they usually material-based like the timer, or is it needing to pay for adult support to join the after school programs?<br /><br /><b>another volunteer</b> wrote: <i>This misunderstanding of what special education is and how it matters is exactly why decisions about students' participation in before/after school activities need to stay with the professionals who work together with parents to develop 504 plans and IEPs. </i>DifferentIDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18987589200766627292014-01-23T11:15:55.575-08:002014-01-23T11:15:55.575-08:00Getting the district to fund this is a great idea....Getting the district to fund this is a great idea. This is a great opertunity to further reduce classroom funding.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63040586783011790402014-01-22T15:05:18.127-08:002014-01-22T15:05:18.127-08:00Bottom line. Yes. My kid has participated in MAN...Bottom line. Yes. My kid has participated in MANY extracurricular activities. I've always found people helpful. On only a few occasions have we ever had somebody balk. One time was at an afterschool club sport where the community coach felt shouldn't have to include students with disabilities are often unathletic. In the end, he came around. My kid grew and excelled in the sport he wanted to do despite of significant disability and despite the reluctance of the coach. Everybody grew, and our team did well. (Notably, the KIDS were great! As usual, kids are leading the way in civil rights.) We've always figured out a way to do it. Great! I'm resourceful, they're resourceful. I'm thankful to those who have stepped up AND thankful that I have the means to fill in the gaps.<br /><br />That said. You can't just provide "cheap" extracurriculars to students who pose no extra costs. If you can't provide your thing to everyone, then you may well be shot down for anyone. You can't say "low income kids are harder to serve, and I've only got 1 hour to give. So we'll just keep them out of the program." It behooves groups to consider everyone - including the hardest to serve. Thankfully, most do try. I too have volunteered. And I bent over backwards to make my offering accessible to everyone who showed any interest including students with very challenging behavior disorders. I expect that of others as well. It is a public school. And if groups refuse, and/or the school doesn't cough up the money - then the activities should not be provided on school grounds or as a school activity. (Yes, we've got boy scouts. But then, the school better have a girl-scouts if anybody wants it. And I bet they do!)<br /><br />-Another sped parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59485555866000872892014-01-22T14:20:53.575-08:002014-01-22T14:20:53.575-08:00http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/19/a-ba...http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/01/19/a-balanced-school-needs-a-balance-of-volunteers/<br /><br />An article about volunteering and some issues that can come up when we are not mindful that volunteers are there to serve ALL kids in the school not just their own. I've seen schools where the volunteers are very "clubby" to the detriment of the kids, and I've seen the opposite and, as a result, more kids well served. As a volunteer, I feel it's my duty to educate myself about the student population and to work to understand the kids who participate. My experience with parents of kids with special needs has been positive; I've see people actively working to help their children succeed and willing to offer support when necessary.<br /><br />Gen Ed MonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70555907763906563732014-01-22T14:07:07.242-08:002014-01-22T14:07:07.242-08:00Clarification,
We the parents provide the medical...Clarification,<br /><br />We the parents provide the medical assistance outside of school. We do not pay others to do it. Medicare already trained us to assist. So, you the tax payer already provided. How could a club like, a math club, provide funding to cover the after school care when they have very little funding at all? They would have a very small budget. I would not want access denied for others. These costs are catastrophic. They are not a few hundred dollars but can be in the thousands for an overnight trip. Our situation is extreme because we are covered through health insurance, medicare and special grant moneys through Children's Hospital. Perhaps a special grant system could expand access for those that do fall through the system cracks. It would be horrible to shut great programs down because of the needed funds to take care of my situation. Our society benefits from all persons reaching their full potential. We do not have the funds to cover every single person. We can try, wish, hope and disagree but please do not hold back simple,cheap, growth opportunities from the many because of my child. Our society has already done there best to help us. <br /><br />Roosevelt ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com