tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post2381746092741205438..comments2024-03-18T16:51:10.406-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Test Boycott NowMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger83125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83202003373117510842011-06-11T12:53:47.490-07:002011-06-11T12:53:47.490-07:00Parents, please physically watch your kids take th...Parents, please physically watch your kids take the MAP test. <br /><br />I just spoke with a middle school teacher. Testing at that school is a free for all: <br />-kids enter and leave the room at will<br />-kids unplug each others computers for fun (they are so bored)<br />-kids take part of the test, go to class or lunch and then return, sometimes days later, to complete the test<br />-kids hang out and bother kids who are taking the test (because the bothersome kids have no where else to go during lunch)<br />-there are twice as many kids needing testing as there are computers<br />-etc.<br /><br />Scientific results? Not hardly.<br /><br />-JC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40728054059925763232011-06-10T10:12:36.992-07:002011-06-10T10:12:36.992-07:00I think a boycott could be a (perhaps the only) pr...I think a boycott could be a (perhaps the only) practical and powerful tool for parents to effect change.<br /><br />However, the goals must be specific and targeted to be effective. Asking the district to fulfill all broken promises might be a great goal, but it's far too lofty to be taken seriously.<br /><br />However, if a majority of Spectrum-qualified (and hopefully other) families at Wedgwood said in unison "We are not going to take either the MAP or MSP if you dissolve the Spectrum model in our building", then I think there would be some serious listening.<br /><br />And as Charlie has said in the past, do not back off based on a promise. Be committed. Only fulfill your part after the district fulfills their part.<br /><br />Is anyone still reading this thread? WW Spectrum parents, you need to spread the word among yourselves, and you'd better hurry.none1111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86313076937648611032011-06-09T16:32:31.105-07:002011-06-09T16:32:31.105-07:00For those posting on the two times vs three times ...For those posting on the two times vs three times (vs no times) per year MAP testing:<br /><br />I am a "no times per year" person for all the reasons in the post of "Long time teacher who is seeing a bad trend," as well as many others.<br /><br />But, I would take 2 over 3 -- if only to save the wear and tear on kids, and to get the libraries back. Also, maybe we can get it down to 1 time per year -- and then get rid of it altogether!!!<br /><br />But I will support Charlie's drive to boycott (even though I see, and concur, with the "problem" that one of the things we should be demanding is an end to MAP -- so how is it we say we will go back to it if they fix stuff) -- at any rate, I am in, if only because this may be the first good way of starting to get parents involved in pushing back, at the school level against some of this ridiculousness. <br /><br />The District is all together. They have one leader -- who hires and fires all of them, and signs their paycheck. They present a united front of obfuscation, misinformation, and manipulated timing to the Board to get their way, and they get away with it time, after time, after time. <br /><br />Now, let's look at parents and taxpayers. We are diffused among various schools. We have divergent needs and interests. While we all want good education, and good schools for "our" kids -- if we are parents, we have different kids, with different needs, and different ideas about how to get from point A to point B. We are democrats, republicans, communists, socialists, libertarians, Ayn Randers, independents. We are a plethora of cultures and religions. We are very rich, very poor, English speaking, non-English speaking. Some of us have time and willingness to "get involved." Many of us lack the time, the talent, the personal skills, to do more than get our kids signed up and to school, and pitch in on a little homework. We are APP, Spectrum, ALO, Special Ed, and the great, unlabeled "regular" that is left over. <br /><br />The District knows we are unformed and unled. They use this against us all the time. They go further, and actually "pit" us against each other, and use one group (for example, non-Spectrum parents in schools with Spectrum classes) to tear down programs desired by other families (such as self-contained Spectrum). They know our interests and our limited time means we "move on" with our kids, and they count on that to degrade any institutional memories of what they have done to other schools, communities, and families in past years.<br /><br />We have our votes (unless we "sell" them to the well-financed spin campaigns on either side), our placement (or not) of our kids in SSD schools, and our willingness (or not) to let our kids be used, for weeks at a time, in experiments on how to use high stakes testing to get at teacher work conditions, pay, and retention policies. <br /><br />Because the tests are not only useless to our kids but actively harmful (just read the posts on kids denied APP and Spectrum due to an arbitrary cut-off on MAP tests that are not appropriately used as gateway tests -- and that is ONLY one small harm among others), because I oppose the primary policy (teacher evaluation based on high stakes tests) that the tests are here to support, and because this could be the beginning of a "parents and kids rights" movement to retake some control over misspending and mismanaging on ed reform, I am "in."Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58436228986472675272011-06-09T16:21:09.222-07:002011-06-09T16:21:09.222-07:00Kathy, if that's not the saddest thing - your ...Kathy, if that's not the saddest thing - your daughter had to address the call of nature and that's why her score dropped. I wonder how many kids don't ask to use the bathroom (but need to) and are worrying the whole time they are taking the test.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43689379478574683732011-06-09T16:02:34.254-07:002011-06-09T16:02:34.254-07:00Dear No'End Teacher: Post on! Your post was ...Dear No'End Teacher: Post on! Your post was a good one; you DID have a factual basis (Melissa sometimes dings us when we toss in totally "out there" opinions as though they were facts -- but that was not your case); no, you didn't cite all your sources, but you HAD them, and you had no way of knowing -- before others jumped in to say that the 85% cut off had been used to exclude THEIR kids -- that you needed to be saving letters, archiving emails, etc., right? <br /><br />I have no problem believing that you got the letters you did. I have no problem believing (hoping?) that the policy might have changed to a less insane one and the website has not been updated. I have no problem believing the person you talked to is gone, or cannot be located on the bad website we paid a fortune for. I also have no problem believing -- since the left hand in this District frequently doesn't even know a right hand exists -- much less what it is doing, that your source might have sent information out in good faith, but it was wrong, or was subsequently changed. <br /><br />So please don't think most of us thought you were posting "false information." Maybe it was a timing issue (so both sides are right); maybe the District is putting out contradictory stuff. I for one was happy to hear your points. And if others pushed back harder than you thought appropriate, remember that the insane, stupid policy you were so happy to say you had been told was (rightfully) dead had just been used to roll over and squash their kids a short time before. If it had been me, my anger and bitter disappointment in the SSD might well have led to a sharper comeback than perhaps was merited. <br /><br />This blog does best with lots of voices, ears to the ground, and points of view. Hope we still have yours.<br /><br />Still Hoping You Were RightAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46188596111186917432011-06-08T20:49:47.724-07:002011-06-08T20:49:47.724-07:00To South End mom - make sure you keep copies of di...To South End mom - make sure you keep copies of disrict test results (CogAt scores, etc.) as Advanced Learning doesn't keep the records year to year. You may be able to use the most recent CogAt scores (if they qualify) for next year's testing cycle should you need to appeal.<br /><br />Another momAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28764120696739228682011-06-08T20:43:38.721-07:002011-06-08T20:43:38.721-07:00There is absolutely no data to show that the MAP t...There is absolutely no data to show that the MAP test is useful or valid. I recommend scrapping the entire MAP test- don't give it once or twice, just don't give it. The money the district is spending is much more than just the NWEA contract. <br /><br />- computers purchased for the sole purpose of testing<br />- computer upkeep and software licensing for upgrades of operating systems (yes, school district had to do that to be compatible with new NWEA program)<br />- libraries not usable for months during the school year<br />- students feeling like they are failures<br />- teachers getting zero useful feedback<br />- parents getting inappropriate feedback (wildly fluctuating scores)<br />- huge negative impact of invalid testing (read Diane Ravitch's book)<br />- poor community engagement (promotes he's better, she's better with no real content)<br /><br />I could go on but it has already taken up too much of my time as a teacher and I refuse to give it any more.<br /><br />Signed,<br />Long time teacher who is seeing a bad trend.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42604127693593567312011-06-08T20:37:34.843-07:002011-06-08T20:37:34.843-07:00I think it would be useful to separate the boycott...I think it would be useful to separate the boycott into two categories- opt out of MAP testing which is a completely absurd test on so many levels, and opt out of MSP testing which has some merits.<br /><br />-School TeacherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70034020434124611342011-06-08T19:33:10.728-07:002011-06-08T19:33:10.728-07:00Salander,
You know...the district will NOT be abl...Salander,<br /><br />You know...the district will NOT be able to do this.<br /><br />Yet, we have Research,Evaluation and Assessment being funded at nearly $3M/ yr. Academic Warehouse cost $1.1M and MAP computers cost $4M. Then, there are fees attached to MAP test etc.<br /><br />There is plenty of research stating linking student test scores to teacher effectiveness hasn't decreased the achievement gap. Why are we spending dollars on this non-sense.<br /><br />The district just took %5M out of our classrooms.<br /><br />We might see additional mid-year reductions.<br /><br />Time for this non-sense to end.<br /><br />South End Mom,<br />Check in with your daughter about her experience. My child's test scores dropped- she needed to use the bathroom.Kathynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27168700176576374902011-06-08T18:03:32.178-07:002011-06-08T18:03:32.178-07:00And whose job will it be to profile all the data f...And whose job will it be to profile all the data for the 55,000+ students in the district? Who will keep track of who is attending 80% of the time? What if the student's attendance drops to 79% for a couple of months because of an illness? Will they no longer count?What if a child qualifies for RFL but is not enrolled? What is a student just exited from ELL?Million ans millions will be spent by the minions whose job it is to control this data. To what end? Weeding out all those BAD teachers.Remember there are no interventions for struggling students. The teachers with no aids, or translators, or counselors, or after school or summer programs are somehow supposed to fix those students or be fired. That's what this is all about. This system has NOTHING to do with student success.Salanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15139709577516284114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15691985878429478482011-06-08T18:02:05.203-07:002011-06-08T18:02:05.203-07:00SO folks, save $30 and don't buy the book on ...SO folks, save $30 and don't buy the book on cluster grouping. This isn't about excellence for all, and elitism (though the debate is convenient because it adds parental support for doing away with self-contained spectrum), but about how to distribute ALL our little darlings in ways that will make classroom rosters equitable for teachers in this attempt to evaluate teachers based on standardized testing. <br /><br />ALL parents should opt their kids out of testing. Our kids are being weighed and measured not for the sake of learning, but to meet collective bargaining guidelines and to be used as an administrative tool.<br /><br />This should make us ask lots of questions because it has caused chasm within those schools and their communities...another collateral damage? Will our children's education be collateral damage as well?<br /><br />- Another readerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20289042929578654122011-06-08T17:01:07.733-07:002011-06-08T17:01:07.733-07:00APP is safe because it is isolated thus far.
Acco...<i>APP is safe because it is isolated thus far.</i><br /><br />According to reports from last night's APP meeting, non-APP students may be allowed to take Science with the APP cohort at Washington next year (scheduling issues were given as the reason).Parentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66659875515542601572011-06-08T16:46:39.015-07:002011-06-08T16:46:39.015-07:00Readers of this blog should revisit Salander's...Readers of this blog should revisit Salander's posting about teacher eval. (Thanks Salander for the heads up.)<br />The Teacher Student Growth Rating explains a lot of the effort to do away with self-contained spectrum classes. Administrators and teachers will want to determine where kids go and especially the "challenging kids" as evidenced by "roster verification". The other comment that explains the proposed change to attendance policy is the comment about using only the test scores of students who enrolled at least 80% of the time. See below for a copy of what was in Salander's earlier posting: <br /><br />"To ensure that teachers of challenging student populations are evaluated fairly, student growth results will consider the student composition of a teacher's classroom, including the proportion of English learners, students who qualify for free/reduced lunches, and students with disabilities. In addition, only students who are enrolled and in attendance at least 80 percent of the time will be measured."<br /><br />and<br /><br />"Roster Verification<br />The student growth measurement will include "roster verification," which is a process to ensure all teachers are matched appropriately with their students "<br /><br />Now we know more of what is driving all of the changes to spectrum, and attendance policy. ( APP is safe because it is isolated thus far.) It becomes apparent why parents gain little insight as to the meaning of MAP data except to watch their kids' scores go up or down. The district cannot not use MAP data to guide individual child's learning because MAP tests do not reflect SPS curriculum.<br /><br />The driver here is not about best practices to promote learning for each child, but a lazy, seemingly "hands off" way for administrators to use numbers to rate teachers rather than do the hard work of true, face to face, meaningful performance review. Spectrum is just colatteral damage.<br /><br />That Charlie should be the reason to boycott the test. <br /><br />-another readerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6761597706379744962011-06-08T16:27:09.703-07:002011-06-08T16:27:09.703-07:00Readers of this blog should revisit Salander's...Readers of this blog should revisit Salander's posting about teacher eval. (Thanks Salander for the heads up.)<br />The Teacher Student Growth Rating explains a lot of the effort to de away with self-contained spectrum classes. Adminstrators and teachers will want to determine where kids go and especially the"challenging kids" as evidenced by "roster verification". The other comment that explains the proposed change to attendance policy is the comment about using only the test scores of students who enrolled at least 80% of the time. See below for a copy of what was in Salander's earlier posting: <br /><br />"To ensure that teachers of challenging student populations are evaluated fairly, student growth results will consider the student composition of a teacher's classroom, including the proportion of English learners, students who qualify for free/reduced lunches, and students with disabilities. In addition, only students who are enrolled and in attendance at least 80 percent of the time will be measured."<br /><br />and<br /><br />"Roster Verification<br />The student growth measurement will include "roster verification," which is a process to ensure all teachers are matched appropriately with their students "<br /><br />Now we know more of what is driving all of the changes to spectrum and attendance policy. ( APP is safe because it is isolated thus far.) The driver is not about best practices to promote learning for each child, but a lazy, seemingly "hands off" way for administrators to use numbers to rate teachers rather do the hard work of true and meaningful performance review.<br /><br />THAT Charlie should be the reason to boycott the test. <br /><br />-another readerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87636955773005968772011-06-08T15:33:38.281-07:002011-06-08T15:33:38.281-07:00Charlie, you write of a boycott and a list of dema...Charlie, you write of a boycott and a list of demands, but this strongly suggests that were the demands be met that the boycott be dropped and students would go backing to taking the MAP test.<br /><br />I'm not so sure I'm on board with that: If the MAP test is ridiculous, would people go back to testing with it if certain demands were met?seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81424140996801836112011-06-08T15:04:55.783-07:002011-06-08T15:04:55.783-07:00From the Advanced Learning website:
Students with...From the Advanced Learning website:<br /><br /><i>Students with no MAP testing data will receive cognitive testing first and may be administered an achievement test if cognitive test scores are within eligibility ranges. <br /><br />**Only achievements tests that have been completed no earlier than March 2010 will be considered.</i><br /><br />If I understand your situation correctly, your child had Spring 2010 MAP scores that qualified, and subsequent CogAt scores that qualified, but then Winter MAP scores were used to disqualify your child? Assuming there were no Fall MAP scores, and according to the Appeals info, the Spring scores should still qualify your student.<br /><br />Did you file an appeal (the deadline is now past for the upcoming school year)? This is why there's an option for private testing. If you have qualifying CogAt scores, you just need achievement testing done (math and reading).<br /><br />Another momAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87294199401122542182011-06-08T14:41:50.748-07:002011-06-08T14:41:50.748-07:00You can also be a good teacher with strong student...You can also be a good teacher with strong students, yet be rated poorly when evaluated based on student growth.<br /><br />High scoring students are less likely to show growth as they reach the ceiling of the test (they may even show negative growth). At what point is student growth based on mastery of concepts beyond those required to be taught in the current class?<br /><br />-not a MAP fanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82140811559705552322011-06-08T14:36:40.498-07:002011-06-08T14:36:40.498-07:00Can anyone answer this question for me:
My daught...Can anyone answer this question for me:<br /><br />My daughter was district identified to test for APP based on her end of kindergarten MAP score last year. She did the CogAT, and then we were totally blindsided that she was found ineligible for both APP and Spectrum because her Winter 2011 MAP Math score went down to 72 from 99, Fall to Winter (how did that happen?).<br /><br />Is the only way around that determination a private test being submitted?<br /><br />~South End momAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34393937681074169392011-06-08T14:17:11.616-07:002011-06-08T14:17:11.616-07:00I like how these plans always have a carrot and a ...I like how these plans always have a carrot and a stick. If you are a BAD teacher and your students score low on test questions covering areas you likely don't teach in the class or at that grade level you will be punished.<br />If you are a GOOD teacher and figure out how to "juke the stats" you can advance your teaching career to join the coaches wharehoused at the John.<br /><br />This entire scheme is so complex no one will ever be able to figure out how to make it work and so irrelevant that it will end up being another echo of SPS administrative failures.<br /><br />I just can't believe that these people are so dysfuntional that they actually believe they are accomplishing something, anything.Salandernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34299085391594885922011-06-08T13:53:11.454-07:002011-06-08T13:53:11.454-07:00Also, I say "also" as much as Morva says...Also, I say "also" as much as Morva says "right." (Inside joke for Melissa)Chris S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17016898261120819596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29624318577147380062011-06-08T13:52:04.925-07:002011-06-08T13:52:04.925-07:00I opted my first grader out of the MAP for this ro...I opted my first grader out of the MAP for this round. Two other students in her class have also been opted out. We are taking turns being at school during the MAP administration so we do not burden the school staff with otherwise occupying the MAP-free population. I also volunteered to supervise the early-finishers outside.<br /><br />Although state law requires schools to provide learning activities for "opt-outers" I recommend this approach as a gesture that we do not mean to hurt or further burden the building staff. Also, it can be community building/solidarity for families, and if you get more than 3-4 families,it also makes it more feasible for parents with non-flexible work schedules to opt out as well.Chris S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17016898261120819596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68695706454238153942011-06-08T13:28:27.887-07:002011-06-08T13:28:27.887-07:00Mel, I think it simply means that a teacher can ma...Mel, I think it simply means that a teacher can make sure that the students who are listed as in their class -- and therefore part of the growth measurement -- really were the kids who were in class. <br /><br />You know, this Data Warehouse thing that is supposed to link students and teachers is not supposed to be finished until the Fall. Not that I would trust that to be accurate anyway (given how poorly the district scores for accuracy in other data) but this probably means there's some hand-collected data. I would want to double check this for accuracy if I were to be scored on the growth of the kids who maybe were or were not my students.<br /><br />Allow me to rant now.<br />A: They are hoping that using two tests and two years will increase validity and reliability, but what is the statistical evidence of that? <br />B: Given that the DW to link students to teachers is not complete, there's no way to back test the algorithm to test for reasonableness at all.Dorothy Nevillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17108759281089768738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7063933818070999922011-06-08T13:08:17.929-07:002011-06-08T13:08:17.929-07:00"Roster Verification
The student growth measu..."Roster Verification<br />The student growth measurement will include "roster verification," which is a process to ensure all teachers are matched appropriately with their students.<br /><br />Teachers of tested subjects and grades in Level 1 and 2 schools will have an opportunity to verify their class rosters before the end of this school year. For questions about roster verification please contact your principal."<br /><br />Could someone explain this to me?Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84727491379959719062011-06-08T11:30:08.222-07:002011-06-08T11:30:08.222-07:00I've opted my third grader out of MAP for the ...I've opted my third grader out of MAP for the following reasons:<br /><br />1. MAP scores do not correlate<br /> to classroom work. <br />2. Teachers do NOT know how to<br /> use MAP to inform instruction.<br /> Grant funding for teacher ed.<br /> has run out.<br />3. Fear of test fatigue.<br /> My daughter takes regular<br /> reading tests and reading<br /> tests....also MSP<br />4. I think it is ridiculous<br /> subject my daughter to multiple<br /> day map testing...then<br /> THREE WEEKS later subject<br /> my 9 year old to mulitple <br /> day MSP.<br />5. I suspect the district would<br /> love to correlate MAP to MSP-<br /> but I refuse to let them<br /> use my child for purposes<br /> of human experimentation.<br />6. My daughter complains of<br /> glare on screen.."my eyes<br /> get dizzy". I prefer 1:1<br /> teacher assessment with DRA<br /> or paper for young children.<br /><br />I don't want to join in a crusade...but, willing to share my experience.Kathynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80045969704143088772011-06-08T11:03:38.850-07:002011-06-08T11:03:38.850-07:00Teacher Student Growth Ratings
Each year teachers ...Teacher Student Growth Ratings<br />Each year teachers of tested subjects and grades, of which two or more common state or district assessments are available, will receive an overall student growth score on a scale of zero to 100. This score is based on one district student assessment, and one state assessment. The two-year combined score for both tests will lead to a teacher's student growth rating of High, Typical, or Low. <br /> <br />To ensure that teachers of challenging student populations are evaluated fairly, student growth results will consider the student composition of a teacher's classroom, including the proportion of English learners, students who qualify for free/reduced lunches, and students with disabilities. In addition, only students who are enrolled and in attendance at least 80 percent of the time will be measured.<br /> <br />For teachers of tested subjects and grades in Level 1 and 2 schools, the 2010-11 school year is the first year student growth is measured. <br /> <br />Roster Verification<br />The student growth measurement will include "roster verification," which is a process to ensure all teachers are matched appropriately with their students. <br /> <br />Teachers of tested subjects and grades in Level 1 and 2 schools will have an opportunity to verify their class rosters before the end of this school year. For questions about roster verification please contact your principal. <br /> <br />Teacher Student Growth Opportunities and Support<br />Teachers who demonstrate a High student growth average over two years may be eligible for a career ladder position.<br /> <br />Teachers who demonstrate a Low student growth average over two years will receive additional observations and support.<br /> <br />Teacher Student Growth: What Is Being Determined <br />Seattle Public Schools and the Seattle Education Association are in the process of determining a number of factors related to how the district measures student growth. <br /> <br />Growth Model<br />The district and the teachers' union are collaborating to finalize how student growth will be measured and how teachers will receive their results. This is expected to be finalized by the end of the summer and communicated to teachers at the start of the 2011 - 12 school year.<br /> <br />Tested Subjects & Grades<br />For the purpose of student growth, tested subjects and grades are those for which two or more common state or district assessments are available. Subjects and grades that do not currently have two or more common assessments are considered untested subjects/grades. <br /> <br />For more information on teacher student growth, visit us at http://inside.seattleschools.org/area/humanresources/cagshome.<br /><br />I blame the union for agreeing to this crapSalandernoreply@blogger.com