tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post2811008426696239085..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Touchy, TouchyMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35433829041108357952011-07-29T21:55:52.419-07:002011-07-29T21:55:52.419-07:00About Meg's crappy charts.... It has become q...<b>About Meg's crappy charts.... </b> It has become quite apparent that information presented in an extremely clear form has ZERO effect on many board members.<br /><br />On January 17, 2007 at the request of Sally Soriano I testified at my first board meeting about Math. I figured it would take two three-minute testimonies to make things clear to the Board.<br /><br />The Board does not get it....<br />(fill in whatever "it" you wish)<br /> because most directors have no interest in getting it. .... We have four rubber-stampers running for reelection.<br /><br /><b>You would think that the <i>"Crappy Charts"</i> would be a cause for at least some Board Director embarrassment .... but if you thought that .... well you have not been paying attention for the last four years.</b><br /><br />-- Dan DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81577320796734127632011-07-28T10:27:17.753-07:002011-07-28T10:27:17.753-07:00Double system parent: I am (was) a double system ...Double system parent: I am (was) a double system parent too -- and kept MY hellion in small classes in private schools for years, until we were confident that he and the public school could "handle" each other. It worked great for us! <br /><br />Hellions R UsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50387990788146189932011-07-27T14:09:52.348-07:002011-07-27T14:09:52.348-07:00I've done both and will continue to do both. ...I've done both and will continue to do both. My hellion of a kindergartener will go to a private school and be in a class of 14. However, my older child will do fine in public school next year.Double system parentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52023583641119314022011-07-25T13:23:46.626-07:002011-07-25T13:23:46.626-07:00I can't be the first person to observe this, b...I can't be the first person to observe this, but it's interesting to me that so many people who promote TFA and are pro-reform say "you wouldn't run a business like this" about school systems.<br /><br />But what business would put a brand-spanking-new-employee who might not be suited for the field (but the business took a chance on because the newbie is bright and did well in college) in charge of their most important, most finicky client, who is likely to walk if the account is mismanaged?Meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795753563127975720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31129817010034069582011-07-25T12:16:44.208-07:002011-07-25T12:16:44.208-07:00Peonypower and Momma Snark: One of the national e...Peonypower and Momma Snark: One of the national ed reform leaders (can't recall now -- Rhee, or Wendy Kopp) floated as an idea turning schools into a system like large investment banks, or big law firms. You take "dozens" of bright bushy-tailed things in at the bottom -- and then work them 10 to 12 hours a day for 3 or 4 years -- most burn out or switch by year 5. A "few" who survive are rewarded with "partnership" (read -- master teaching gigs) with tenure and good pay. From the NYC folks I have talked to in this system -- kids are unthinkable for those at the "associate" level -- and many feel that marriage and relationships are as well. They are just supposed to "defer" them until they leave to do something else. <br /><br />My recollection of the conversation was that it was sort of pitched as a "regretful necessity." Q: What about the fact that these hours 12 to 14 hour days, 6 or 7 days a week result in burnout?<br />A: Yeah. That does happen. Maybe we should just move to a model, like lawfirms, where that expectation is built into the model!<br /><br />Boy, do I hope this does NOT happen!Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52299391022392806252011-07-25T09:49:24.267-07:002011-07-25T09:49:24.267-07:00a good read on Private ed choices.
see here: good...a good read on Private ed choices.<br /><br />see here:<a href="http://schoolfinance101.wordpress.com/2011/07/08/private-choices-public-policy-other-peoples-children" rel="nofollow"> good read</a> <br /><br /><br />jprAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36414896078074215502011-07-25T09:36:36.215-07:002011-07-25T09:36:36.215-07:00I have asked that question of state regulators. I...I have asked that question of state regulators. If the RCW sets entry requirements for Alt rte programs, and if the UW cannot and will not count the TFA "summer academy" for any credits under its U-ACT program, why can't anyone who meets entry reqmts be allowed into the program? Why can't anyone ask that their resume be hand-delivered to principals around the district, expect a job, and a mentor to hold their hand?StopTFAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08605108615707039386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15924748086351145312011-07-25T08:59:34.878-07:002011-07-25T08:59:34.878-07:00Every student deserves a certificated teacher. And...<i>Every student deserves a certificated teacher. And that is where TFA drops the ball.</i><br /><br />This really is the heart of the matter. I can understand and appreciate every argument about wider teacher searches, more options, best and brightest, new blood . . . however you want to phrase it. For the life of me, though, I don't understand how a district can even consider welcoming teachers who are not qualified. <br /><br />Teaching is a learning process and bringing in "students" with 5 weeks of training and no classroom experience, who need a certain amount of babysitting by teachers who are already overworked, who are only committing to two years, and who are coming into a market not lacking in applicants . . . I just don't get it. Reform movement or not, you'd think the minimum requirement for a district would be SOME experience in the job. And then to foist these amateurs on the neediest students?<br /><br />stu<br /><br />PS - If I was a student in the traditional teaching program at UW, I would sue for my tuition back . . . at least for the difference between the new TFA program and the "real" program. If MY university was telling me that I would be just as qualified to teach with the TFA program, I could not understand paying one cent more.Stuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769983958729170219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70300534129751823362011-07-25T08:30:07.241-07:002011-07-25T08:30:07.241-07:00"The district benefits from the cut-rate deal..."The district benefits from the cut-rate deal by the use of nonunionized staff and by the use of extremely young and cheap labor." <br /><br />Yes and this is the model all American business and government would love to follow but it doesn't exactly give protection to workers.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19438853806152015742011-07-25T06:41:25.610-07:002011-07-25T06:41:25.610-07:00Just Saying is dead on, Stop TFA. Of the teachers...Just Saying is dead on, Stop TFA. Of the teachers I know from EEU, less than half wind up being teachers. Who cares where they work when they're done teaching? Sounds like you have a beef with success oriented people. Furthermore, the autism experts are usually not so expert at all. The EEU is famous for hiring people with next to no experience for autistic students, and for advising parents to hire the same. True, there are a few real experts, but they aren't the ones actually working with kids. Usually, they are training staff, who are training grad students, who are training aides, who are working with kids. Sounds very TFA-ish to me. It's a long way from the expert to the child. But, it usually works well. The district benefits from the cut-rate deal by the use of nonunionized staff and by the use of extremely young and cheap labor. The zeal and ethic of care you speak of is exactly the same thing those promoting TFA claim. People trust the oversight provided by EEU and UW. Why is everyone so untrusting of TFA? Is it just an issue of locality? I do agree with you on the credential issue. Every student deserves a certificated teacher. And that is where TFA drops the ball.<br /><br />-parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35815791534937404312011-07-24T22:29:12.169-07:002011-07-24T22:29:12.169-07:00I'm sending my older kid private for middle sc...<i>I'm sending my older kid private for middle school next year. </i><br /><br />Meg,<br /><br />I firmly believe that, if the board had even glanced at your numbers over the years, this district would be significantly better than it is right now. Every single time one of your "crappy charts" came out, I would think "well, now they'll see the light," and I was always amazed when your analyses were ignored and when, after a couple of years would go by and your numbers were shown to be accurate while the district's numbers looked like someone had played a bad game of darts, I would keep hoping that someone, someone official, would FINALLY take notice of the amazing work you do. Before every single vote, your charts should be required reading!<br /><br />Phew . . . now to the private school thing . . . <br /><br />The amount of work you do for the public schools, the constant attention to the details that the district overlooks, and your tireless efforts for ALL children, shows the kind of person you are. Having a child in private school has no bearing on that and I look forward to every chart, number, post, protest, and goat, you choose to write about. I don't know if it was a hard decision or not and don't really care; every parent needs to do what's best for his/her child.<br /><br />stuStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769983958729170219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65919722440272264292011-07-24T22:11:43.824-07:002011-07-24T22:11:43.824-07:00Not even Dean Stritikus' own faculty think the...Not even Dean Stritikus' own faculty think these TFA <a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/59695959/First-Year-Sped-and-ELL-No-Way" rel="nofollow">temps</a> should be let near children with special needs. But the hypocrisy is rampant there, obviously. <br /><br />Now that you mention it, TFA should hold an auction to pay salaries for Kopp and her thousands of minions. Give taxpayers back our $50M. Give us back our properly-trained teachers.StopTFAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08605108615707039386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4233872609156686842011-07-24T21:45:08.095-07:002011-07-24T21:45:08.095-07:00I'm sending my older kid private for middle sc...I'm sending my older kid private for middle school next year. <br /><br />And I should be honest: unlike many people who are drawn out of the boundaries of strong schools, or whose children missed a testing cut-off by a point or two, our public option is good. <br /><br />It would be pretty disappointing (okay, <em>to me</em>, which doesn't really have a lot of bearing on, well, anyone else) if suddenly my analysis of budget issues in public school was discounted because one of my kids is in private school. <br /><br />Obviously, it's extra-convenient for me to take this line of thinking, but someone's ideas on education should be taken on the merits of the idea, not whether the person has adequately established their bonafides by sending their kids public.Meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795753563127975720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62727245165062647142011-07-24T20:59:39.386-07:002011-07-24T20:59:39.386-07:00Stop TFA,
Off my two friends who taught at the EE...Stop TFA,<br /><br />Off my two friends who taught at the EEU, one is a lawyer and the other is an investment banker. Not at Goldmach Sachs, but Levman Brothers. Both taught for about 2 and a half years. <br /><br />And SPS will be about to "replicate" the EEU when it gets the UW funding, state, federal, and private research grant funding, and 600K per year auction/donor proceeds that the EEU gets on top of the state funds through SPS for each site. Oh ya, and only when Washington becomes a right to work state and there are no pesky union salaries and benfits to pay out to the staff.Just Sayingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78306316336057700502011-07-24T20:56:02.434-07:002011-07-24T20:56:02.434-07:00Gotta say I think Rahm is a bit more famous than M...Gotta say I think Rahm is a bit more famous than McGinn or our current/past school board members. wouldn't be surprised if his kids had security detail. private would be a no brainer in that case.<br /><br />i'll be the first to admit i used to think private school was for people with money to burn or kids with issues, and if only everyone would put their kids in public it would all work out. I now know the former was wildly naive, and the latter naively optimistic. Some truth to both, however, but when it comes to your kids, you do what you need to do and don't look back.GreyWatchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15177134279070087546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47455518926082650002011-07-24T16:30:44.701-07:002011-07-24T16:30:44.701-07:00If the EEU trainees and teachers were in it for tw...If the EEU trainees and teachers were in it for two yrs, then out to Goldman Sachs, I would say screw 'em. But they are not and don't. They are skilled with autistic children and others with special needs. They worked wonders with my child, helping her learn to speak and use the potty long after others have. This caring model should be replicated across the district for children that need it. Instead the board and interim superintendent would rather hire these unskilled temps who think they're the anointed. Stritikus has shown he cares only for himself and his image. Now that TFA has their own "on-line" fast track to certification program, he gets to rebuild the UW College of Educations' morale and reputation that he managed to destroy all by his special little lonesome.StopTFAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08605108615707039386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38051420876262584292011-07-24T15:25:22.552-07:002011-07-24T15:25:22.552-07:00Well, well, well. We can all go on and on about t...Well, well, well. We can all go on and on about the wonderful things at EEU. And it is a great preschool and K. But, the fact remains. It is staunchly nonunion for those certificated teachers and always has been. And let's not forget that the aides at EEU are also nonunionized, making minimum wage. District unionized aides are 3 times the cost and get full benefits. We all do know that aides in the district are unionized right? That is the primary reason EEU can operate far below district costs. Yes it is also a teacher training program. This program has some similarities to TFA in that it gets very cheap, and very inexperienced labor. The difference is that it is part a teacher certification program, and most of the people working there do wind up working as teachers (though less than you might think), and that the program is overseen by the university.<br /><br />At least a pro-TFA person, Stritikus, is willing to put his kids in a similar (though not identical) environment. I give him credit for that. Most TFA reform elite I know have their kids in private school. It is hard to square with that, despite all the "do what's best for your own kid" banter.<br /><br />-parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68779169316056285432011-07-24T14:56:41.775-07:002011-07-24T14:56:41.775-07:00Stop TFA,
The EEU a research and teacher training...Stop TFA,<br /><br />The EEU a research and teacher training program. The head teachers at the Experimental Education Unit are certificated teachers but the low staff to student ratio is accomplished by the "aides" your refer to, who are typically working towards teaching degrees. Some are undergraduates. Some of the SLPs are actually SLP-As (A standing for assistant) who are again students working towards earning masters and the CCC necesarry to be an SLP. Same for the OTs. <br /><br />I get that you are one note anti-TFA. But that doesn't have anything to do with what the EEU is, nor does it matter if that is in fact where Dean Stritikus' children attend.BRBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2289367143241892522011-07-24T10:45:53.903-07:002011-07-24T10:45:53.903-07:00I think the private school I went to pretty much s...I think the private school I went to pretty much saved my life, but it wouldn't have been worth the freight to my parents if it hadn't been that important. <br /><br />On the other hand, for those who can easily pay for private school (or who can afford it due to scholarships), I don't think it's *inherently* an immoral way to use one's money at all, any more than it's immoral to buy handmade furniture or something if you can afford to do so. I can think of some specific private schools I wouldn't support for moral reasons, but that's a different matter.<br /><br />Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89141244047317122242011-07-24T10:23:08.068-07:002011-07-24T10:23:08.068-07:00BRB, gee when ya put it that way it sounds like a ...BRB, gee when ya put it that way it sounds like a TFA program...NOT. An EEU K class has a head teacher, an assistant teacher, and an SLP and OT that assist in the classroom. I seem to remember a number of aides also. The classroom size is small, with special needs kids and typically developing peers. EVERY child blooms. Without MAP testing, imagine that.StopTFAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08605108615707039386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56347632158290369482011-07-23T21:18:57.277-07:002011-07-23T21:18:57.277-07:00Well said, peonypower.
DWEWell said, peonypower.<br /><br />DWEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14892452431951933892011-07-23T21:18:23.338-07:002011-07-23T21:18:23.338-07:00FYI, the EEU isn't a private school. It is a ...FYI, the EEU isn't a private school. It is a contract service provider for SPS. And its high staff ratio is a result of it being a training program for non-certificated teachers who are getting on the job experience while pursuing masters degrees.BRBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89548904672004112042011-07-23T20:26:32.360-07:002011-07-23T20:26:32.360-07:00There are many good reasons why someone might chos...There are many good reasons why someone might chose a private school for their child. Schedule, offerings, special needs, etc.<br /><br />I am with Momma Snark; I counsel many parents to not just dismiss SPS. I think unless you really have a special need, I wouldn't spend the money on private elementaries. We have that many SPS ones that are good. <br /><br />It would help if parents would at least take a look at their own neighborhood public schools given that it is now possible to know exactly where your child might go.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49552060844020421482011-07-23T19:34:30.671-07:002011-07-23T19:34:30.671-07:00Stu, I hear what you are saying and I completely u...Stu, I hear what you are saying and I completely understand. But what surprises me are the number of parents who DO have good choices for a public school for their child and seem to automatically assume these choices just aren't good enough. There are lots of great schools in Seattle, and plenty of kids attend them. But some parents would never even consider sending their own kids there.Momma Snarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09339323448047497236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49705784980664767982011-07-23T19:07:39.401-07:002011-07-23T19:07:39.401-07:00So many of my friends without any actual, personal...<i>So many of my friends without any actual, personal experience in SPS have made up their minds that their children are too smart/sensitive/shy/quirky/demanding/needy/etc. for a public school. I'm not sure where this idea comes from, but it is pervasive in certain circles, and it makes me sad.<br /></i><br /><br />While all this is true, the fact remains that there are great public schools and there are some lousy public schools and we live in a city that doesn't give you much of a choice if you live in the wrong place.<br /><br />In this district. in certain circumstances, if a school is failing parents have the ability to choose "better" schools for their kids. How is that really different than choosing a private school. You're still leaving your neighborhood and saying to the world that "this school isn't good enough for my child." <br /><br />Our children have had some good schools and, probably more importantly, some wonderful teachers. They've also had some mediocre experiences and, in one case, a teacher who was so bad we were trying to leave mid-year. <br /><br />Advocating for public school over private school is wonderful IF the school that family can attend offers a quality education. With the current plan, however, if your assignment school isn't good, you have limited options and private school might be the best way to go for THAT family.<br /><br />stuStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769983958729170219noreply@blogger.com