tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post2826913403690576848..comments2024-03-28T23:38:22.511-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Public Hearing on BoundariesMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88410601015859917482009-11-12T11:40:43.546-08:002009-11-12T11:40:43.546-08:00There are three competing values at work.
One val...There are three competing values at work.<br /><br />One value is predictability and assurance. The current system provides that only for a select few; the new system provides it for all general education students. Concentric circles would only provide it for a select few.<br /><br />Another is neighborhood schools. The current system provides that a bit, depending on how you define "neighborhood". The new plan does it quite well. While there may be another school that is closer, there can be little contention that the assigned school is not a nearby school. Concentric circles would achieve this end no better than the current system and would utterly fail for a large number of families.<br /><br />There is, however, a third value, and that is equitable access to quality programs. In this time of limited capacity, students need to have access to schools regardless of their address to effect this value. The current system does not provide it. Concentric circles absolutely does not provide it. The new plan, however, which drops the distance tie-breaker for out-of-area students, could provide this.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17520541658197674552009-11-12T10:25:08.798-08:002009-11-12T10:25:08.798-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32491627983434248642009-11-12T08:34:16.969-08:002009-11-12T08:34:16.969-08:00adhoc - I had to write this 3 times to not be rude...adhoc - I had to write this 3 times to not be rude or disrespectful. I agree any child with a special identified need should be addressed first (medical, physical, some schools are not easy to access, austism etc.). I support special needs (not wants) 100% going to the front of the line. I think our alignment ends there. <br /><br />I do not consider wanting to compete in musical competitons a need, it is a want. I do not think children should from West Seattle should go to Roosevelt over a child who lives one block from the new boundaries. However, those seats will be left to the 10% open choice. This is a High School tiebreaker argument. <br /><br />All of the concentric agruments for are elementary schools. In which there are no "open seats." So if any spots are open (after ALL seats are given to reference area/neighborhhod children) then and only then does tie breaker come into play. Elementary kids need to be in NEIGHBORHOOD COMMUNITIES. <br /><br />Are we going to neighborhood schools or not? You can not have it both ways. <br /><br />Yes I live in Laurelhurst - I have 3 kids in public schools and one on the way. I chose to move to Laurelhurst in a 2 bedrom apt to be at good schools. I do not own a home or a car. I made sacrifices and my kids do to. I made these sacrifices to go to schools and invest in this community. <br /><br />Please explain why a child who lives one block from a school boundary and is a sibling of a child in the school should have the same chance as a child who has a sibling and lives 5.6 miles away? Again - if your argument is true then the ENTIRE plan needs to be thrown away and started over. You can not have reference areas - supporting a geographic placement and then lottery. That makes no sense. <br /><br />I understand your theoretical argument and I agree schools are not equal so we have 2 choices.<br /><br />1) Stop this craziness until all schools are equal or,.....<br /><br />2) Be consistent in the roll out of this plan. If the number one objective is walkable neighborhood schools....all rules and guidelines should support that statement. <br /><br />***The only exception would be special needs students. DOnt get me started there my son was just diagnosed with autism so that is another battle I will face.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17829603159072441170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86440070140533090662009-11-12T07:28:27.014-08:002009-11-12T07:28:27.014-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17829603159072441170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24283509447390060422009-11-12T07:11:46.340-08:002009-11-12T07:11:46.340-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17829603159072441170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89946408767535314652009-11-11T21:09:46.326-08:002009-11-11T21:09:46.326-08:00"I do not think you can possibly justify a ch..."I do not think you can possibly justify a child from West Wallingford geting into Laurelhurst over a child from one block off the boundary line in elementary school. That is crazy."<br /><br />Ryan, You obviously live in a neighborhood with great schools (Laurelhurst maybe??). But what if you lived in SE Seattle and your assignment school did not meet your childs needs, and neither did the school next to it. Let's say you wanted to get your child into Stevens or Montlake, or Lafayette,or Bryant, or Laurelhurst, but you were not near their boundaries and couldn't get in. What if you were stuck sending your kid to that south end school? <br /><br />Would you still feel the same way?<br /><br />It's easy to want concentric circles when you are guaranteed a great school like Bryant or View Ridge or even the new SP, but want to try for another school , like Laurelhurst. They are all great schools, so not much to lose no matter what......anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79265492176190977812009-11-11T19:53:58.491-08:002009-11-11T19:53:58.491-08:00I am only suggesting concentric circles for elemen...I am only suggesting concentric circles for elementary schools where young children truly need that tight neigborhood and small community. HIgh schools by teh nature of 1000 plus kids are not "small" communities. I agree High School is another bag of worms. I do not think you can possibly justify a child from West Wallingford geting into Laurelhurst over a child from one block off the boundary line in elementary school. That is crazy. Or a kid getting into John Hay from Magnolia over a kid from Queen Anne Ave. <br /><br /> High Schools are different as transporation and level of maturity is so different. Young kids need to be able to walk to (or as close as possible walk to their school and not at the expense of a student being bussed/driven from across town.) I do not think a solution is best for a 6 year old is the same one for a 14 year old.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17829603159072441170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87097667359656940352009-11-11T19:01:56.787-08:002009-11-11T19:01:56.787-08:00"Concentric circles for a tiebreaker are a GR..."Concentric circles for a tiebreaker are a GREAT idea. I think it would really bug me if I was right on a line (so close to being in) and a family 4-5 miles away got the one spot up"<br /><br />But wasn't the whole point of the "option" seats so kids from all over the district could choose schools that would meet their needs? Should only kids that live near Roosevelt have access to the award winning jazz band? And only kids near Ingraham get the IB diploma program? And only kids near Ballard get bio tech?<br /><br />I understand where you are coming from, but, think how you would feel if you were a family in the RBHS boundary?? What if RBHS wasn't acceptable to you??? And you couldn't get into Roosevelt, Garfield, Ballard, Hale, Ingraham, Sealth, etc., because you'd be to far away. All the spots would be taken by families that live closer.<br /><br />I see both sides, really I do, but I have to side with open choice without geographic tie breakers because all of our schools are not equal yet. And, they are all unique and each offer different specialty focuses. Until schools are equitable and equal across the district we need to give families access, little as it may be (10%) to schools that will meet their needs.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18056473750246781512009-11-11T17:13:10.575-08:002009-11-11T17:13:10.575-08:00In regards to the McDonald Post. I spoke at the H...In regards to the McDonald Post. I spoke at the Hearing regarding the McDonald Boundaries. Just to clarify I spoke about my personal story, which includes being a member of "Friend of McDonald" and finding Ironic that I would not be in the Boundary for the new School. But just to clarify I am NOT NOT speaking for "Friends of McDonald". The woman who spoke before me was a teacher at Seattle schools, but she was speaking as a Parent. She brought up being a teacher as point to say she can see many side of the issue. (She was not speaking for all Teachers in Seattle) Likewise I was speaking for myself.Huntesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09149334174772691102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80539328544386291702009-11-11T17:00:36.222-08:002009-11-11T17:00:36.222-08:00Jumping back to some of the original posts (I mean...Jumping back to some of the original posts (I meant to post this last night)....<br /><br />While I agree that grandfathering siblings is huge (and will impact my family), Jen is correct, over half the 40 speakers last night (22 I believe) spoke directly to the issue of being “just over the boarder of their perceived neighborhood school.” She is also spot on that much of the frustration came from neighborhoods that felt securely tied to their local school, being nudged out when the lines were adjusted last week. Makes you realize that “being drawn out” could literally happen to any neighborhood – even those close enough to hear the bells ring.<br /><br />The soft, or Bubble Boundary amendment, (choice for homes within three blocks of a boundary line) addresses a majority, if not all, of those odd ball boundaries brought up last night. It would eliminate the need to individually adjust each and every boundary line a little to the north hear and a little to the east there and would even serve to inform the district – based upon choices made by homes on the boundaries - when the time to redraw the lines. The McDonald group is a perfect example – we truthfully can’t expect the staff to know all the nuances of a neighborhood. But with the soft boundaries the current families could have a modicum of choice and the district would be able to gather data on where those lines really ought to be. And it is very doable. The district staff has been managing choice for years and will continue to do so for the High Schools. It may not be fun, but it is certainly manageable. While I support the neighborhoods arguing their individual causes, we do have an opportunity to push forward a single amendment that would address most all of them put forth thus far.KWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14440130166362579501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62021977394436867722009-11-11T15:27:06.441-08:002009-11-11T15:27:06.441-08:00typo -- to make Madrona K-8 an option school.
sor...typo -- to make Madrona K-8 an option school.<br /><br />sorry.Maggie Hookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01871351103329017398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17640438708833191162009-11-11T14:34:41.101-08:002009-11-11T14:34:41.101-08:00The advocate to make Madrona K-8 was likely the PT...The advocate to make Madrona K-8 was likely the PTSA president. I think her rationale is flawed, in that it mainly consists of Madrona has a longer school day and being around middle schoolers is not for everyone. But I think she is casting about for a way to advocate for the families who will be displaced when the neighborhood largely fills the kindergarten next year. Neighborhood families are gearing up to come to Madrona and we won't easily allow the SAP to be subverted or the school to be effectively highjacked.Maggie Hookshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01871351103329017398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70068292197135708522009-11-11T14:16:07.269-08:002009-11-11T14:16:07.269-08:00There are so many unknowns about SPE. You have an ...There are so many unknowns about SPE. You have an affluent neighborhood that has been shut out of the lottery by distance tie breaker for many years, a neighborhood that might be predisposed to go private anyway. Will they enroll in SPE? You have two groups (Sandpoint Family Housing and UW family Housing) who are by their transitional nature, not easy to predict long term how many kids of different ages, not to mention other apartment complexes. You have an unknown number of ELL students, from how large an area? With a new ELL service model. What will that mean?<br /><br />You have the fact that North End families accepted to APP attend at lower rates than south end -- so that's an option for some (and then will they choose Lowell kindergarten and try for sibling tiebreaker?). If as Bruce says LHE will have significant room, then some will choose that. TC is right nearby and we still have the Gale Shapley Algorithm (do we?). Jane Addams might be more attractive than the complete unknowns. <br /><br />Seven million dollars sounds like a lot of money for a school that will max out at 350 with permanent portables. <br /><br />And on my block some of the anger from folks comes from the fact that there are THREE closer elementary schools than SPE. People could accept one, or maybe even two, but three just seems hard to swallow. I know it's an accident of geography, but in order to really see that rationally, one must spend time poring over the details. But it still seems hard to accept that in a neighborhood where the old assignment plan worked really well (until they all had babies at the same time, kinda a tragedy of the commons thing.)Dorothy Nevillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17108759281089768738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59769079801365777212009-11-11T14:14:02.978-08:002009-11-11T14:14:02.978-08:00Does anyone have some insider info on the issue of...Does anyone have some insider info on the issue of granfathering?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17829603159072441170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34019850690750982462009-11-11T14:07:16.465-08:002009-11-11T14:07:16.465-08:00Concentric circles for a tiebreaker are a GREAT id...Concentric circles for a tiebreaker are a GREAT idea. It keeps with all objectives set by the plan and helps as you said people just over a line or street. I think it would really bug me if I was right on a line (so close to being in) and a family 4-5 miles away got the one spot up (after all the reference area kids are in). This is a good idea - have you told or written the board? I guess this only comes into play after siblings right? SO if there were 20 extra spots and 10 siblings wanted to go and then 15 other kids wanted to go....IS this what you are suggesting? In this case - all 10 out of zone siblings get in first then of the 15 that want the other 10 spots....you go by concentric circle? Makes a hell of a lot of common sense. RyanUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17829603159072441170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72396471172651797982009-11-11T13:41:51.035-08:002009-11-11T13:41:51.035-08:00ZB, the "impetus" for my calculations wa...ZB, the "impetus" for my calculations was to contact LH parents who are potentially going to be affected by sibling grandfathering.<br /><br />So I entered every single address from the LH student directory into the district's boundary tool. Using those figures, I determined that LH has 251 students living within the proposed boundary. I've sent the spreadsheet to Tracy Libros and to board members.<br /><br />You claim 100 open seats at Laurelhurst. That's a distortion. By 2015, there will be more than 200 open seats.<br /><br />Bryant and Hawthorne Hills families ALREADY don't want to cross Sand Point Way, a 40 mph state highway with poor visibility and only two crossing points (Princeton and NE 65th).<br /><br />The FRL disparity is another reason for them to jump ship. The disparity might not look like much to you, ZB, but you won't be choosing. I could be wrong, but I believe that will be a major problem for parents in this neighborhood.<br /><br />So, what do I want? I want careful stewardship of BTA dollars. I don't want to see $7 million pissed down the drain on a school with no chance to succeed (and which is projected to add only 134 seats of capacity).<br /><br />LH enrollment 11/9/2009: 462 <br />Projected 2015 LH + SPE: 305 + 291 = 596<br /><br />$7 million to add 134 seats in a school that will probably fail?<br /><br />I'm not married to language immersion. Show me a program that makes better sense, and I'll support it. But the NE wants language immersion, and it dovetails with the ELL move from Bryant.Bruce Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02254699573535543881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50374599248046618112009-11-11T13:33:10.603-08:002009-11-11T13:33:10.603-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Bruce Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02254699573535543881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56191491265109434002009-11-11T12:42:12.272-08:002009-11-11T12:42:12.272-08:00(Oh, and that's all in 2015 -- but we have to ...(Oh, and that's all in 2015 -- but we have to get past 2010 first).zbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205346985598789513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24578542755719378622009-11-11T12:41:14.541-08:002009-11-11T12:41:14.541-08:00"
So the new data book has SPE at 23% FRL? Th..."<br />So the new data book has SPE at 23% FRL? That's a big change from the original boundaries and data which was 29%."<br /><br />We have to be careful, 'cause there are the "boundary" v "boundary w/ assumption" numbers. And they can be off by that much. But, 6% of 300 is 15 kids -- I just haven't seen that as a major difference. <br /><br />Although I have speculation about the population based on living in the neighborhood, I'm not sure it's relevant -- 23% is low, by district standards. The characteristics of those students might make a difference to families who have other options than to choose Sand Point, but the numbers aren't relevant to SPS (it's all pretty ethereal calculations). <br /><br />I think I don't understand the impetus (reason) for Bruce's calculations -- is it to get a language immersion school at Sand Point? A concern that Sand Point will be opene (to high cost, only to close again for being under-enrolled)? As it is, there are a number of schools that are "under-enrolled" (Laurelhurst & Montlake, for example). Laurelhurst will have 100 spots while Sand Point has 300 students. Let's say 50 Sand Point kids end up at Laurelhurst (because they made up the majority of the interested population -- they won't be 100% of it). That will leave Sand Point with 250 students, which doesn't sound too bad (and is still bigger than Montlake & McGilvra).zbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205346985598789513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39191283214093500712009-11-11T12:17:58.314-08:002009-11-11T12:17:58.314-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.h2o girlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12512408535354009657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80111653407466465992009-11-11T12:05:10.562-08:002009-11-11T12:05:10.562-08:00"I'll also admit to a suspicion that the ..."I'll also admit to a suspicion that the Sand Point FRL population might not be as difficult to educate as the traditional population, since a fair amount of the apartment housing in the area is occupied by University students (and fellows). But, that's just guessing with no data."<br /><br />Maybe it would make sense to get data then. Do you know the above assertion is true? What is the general number of elementary school age kids from the UW housing units? How many elementary school kids are at Magnusson, Sandpoint Transitional Housing? How many are from Burke Gilman Place apartments (subsidized low income housing)? <br /><br />I don't get the ELL thing. And note, this is with a new model of ELL that is supposed to get kids into regular classrooms much faster. View a presentation at a recent board meeting (one before last?). How many students? All the ELL kids from the entire Eckstein service area? <br /><br />So the new data book has SPE at 23% FRL? That's a big change from the original boundaries and data which was 29%. Yet the boundaries didn't change that much? How many Windermere families go public? Currently because of concentric circles, they are low in the tiebreaker status which makes private more attractive. How many are at ASB or Villa and are perfectly happy there?Dorothy Nevillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17108759281089768738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25078167736530090692009-11-11T11:54:33.033-08:002009-11-11T11:54:33.033-08:00"But families in the Sand Point boundary will..."But families in the Sand Point boundary will have far greater INCENTIVE AND MEANS to ask out of Sand Point into LH. "<br /><br />Oh, plenty of families at Madrona (to use the chief exemplar) will have incentive & means to use Laurelhurst, too. So, in 2015 Laurelhurst (using neighborhood boundaries) will be under-enrolled by a bit over 100 students. Those 100 spots will be available to the whole city (and, there will be 300 kids at Sand Point). I simply don't believe that would "destroy" Sand Point. <br /><br />How many open spots will Laurelhurst have next year? That's the real question for how it will affect Sand Point's enrollment.zbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13205346985598789513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46724831898638375112009-11-11T11:31:05.601-08:002009-11-11T11:31:05.601-08:00We noticed at Peter Maier's community meeting ...We noticed at Peter Maier's community meeting that the Hamilton service area appears NOT to have an option school. The map is confusing because the WORDS Salmon Bay are in the Hamilton area but the building icon (and the actual building, I can attest) are in the Whitman area.<br /><br />This in my opinion is a(nother) good argument for making McDonald an option school.<br /><br />Of course Maier said "we can't do that, we'd have to re-draw all the boundaries." To which I would say "you also want this plan to last another 20 years, therefore do it right."Chris S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17016898261120819596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8662001085355648352009-11-11T11:14:57.329-08:002009-11-11T11:14:57.329-08:00ZB, under the new boundaries, Laurelhurst stands t...ZB, under the new boundaries, Laurelhurst stands to lose 40 families to Sand Point, 28 to Bryant, 15 to John Rogers, 15 to Wedgwood, 14 to View Ridge and 7 to McDonald. LH currently enrolls 1.35 children per family. Laurelhurst exports a VERY small number of students -- it's a China vs. USA imbalance of trade. <br /><br />To address your thoughts: <br /><br /><i>"First, the analysis here is completely flawed, since it presumes that all the non-Laurelhurst families at Laurelhurst will leave."</i> <br /><br />Question for you: Using the current proportion of out-of-area families, Laurelhurst 2015 will have 251 neighborhood kids in a 450-student building. What do you think the number of out-of-neighborhood kids will be in 2015, after the last of today's out-of-boundary students "graduate"?<br /><br /><i>"Second, many of similarly situated families (i.e. Bryant, Ravenna) will make different choices about Laurelhurst going into the future, because they will be guaranteed attendance in their neighborhood schools, without fear that they'll be bussed much further away. </i><br /><br />Wha? You just argued that out-of-boundary families -- many of whom were force-assigned to LH because neighbor schools were full -- won't leave Laurelhurst. But now you're saying they will -- or that they'll choose the neighborhood school for incoming K -- making Laurelhurst emptier.<br /><br /><i>Third, the absence of a distance tie-breaker means that Sand Point families are no more likely to opt for (or have access to) Laurelhurst than families in, for example Madrona.</i><br /><br />But families in the Sand Point boundary will have far greater INCENTIVE AND MEANS to ask out of Sand Point into LH. <br /><br />INCENTIVE: Sand Point Elementary FRL numbers may be in line with other schools around the city, but <i>families in SP's boundary aren't comparing to the rest of the city!</i> SP's FRL will be 209% of LH, 256% of WW, 383% of Bryant and 460% of VR. From a consumer standpoint, Sand Point Elementary looks like a loser.<br /><br />MEANS: Look at the boundary map. Many families assigned to SP will be geographically equidistant to Laurelhurst. LH is walkable from much of Hawthorne Hills. Transportation is not so easy from Madrona -- or from John Rogers, for that matter -- once yellow buses are discontinued.<br /><br /><i>Fourth, there will be absolutely no requirement that schools be filled to their "functional capacity" with out-of-neighborhood kids."</i><br /><br />Fantasy Island is not located in the NE cluster. Laurelhurst will not sit one-third empty while kids attend classes on the stage and in the play court at Bryant.<br /><br /><i>Now, I think that there should be a language immersion school, but I would still put it at the Addams K-8, not at Sand Point.</i><br /><br />That would work fine except for one thing: the Sand Point location is required to relieve overcrowding at Bryant.<br /><br />And the board members I spoke to after Monday night's meeting believe that Jane Addams needs room to grow at the middle school level so it can relieve overcrowding at Eckstein.<br /><br />Sand Point can and will work FABULOUSLY as a language immersion option school with a tiebreaker preference for Bryant families. It will relieve overcrowding at Bryant and throughout NE Seattle. ELL will be perceived as an asset, not a liability. If it's too hard to ramp up with Japanese and Chinese, then make it Spanish-only. <br /><br />Otherwise, the $7 million is wasted on Sand Point. It would be another reason to vote no on the BTA levy.Bruce Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02254699573535543881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72825451427996734932009-11-11T11:10:32.524-08:002009-11-11T11:10:32.524-08:00"Having Jane Addams as an international schoo..."Having Jane Addams as an international school would provide the needed middle school path for this plan to be successful, and might actually be attractive to a lot more people with the added benefit of relieving some stress off Eckstein."<br /><br />I 100% agree with this statement, and in fact I advocated for this very thing when the district announced they were closing Summit and opening a new school in the building. <br /><br />But isn't it to late do anything now? The school opened this year as an Environmental Science and Math school. A principal was appointed, staff was hired, and almost 400 children are attending the school. What would you say to all of those families who chose the school/program and are now enrolled?anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.com