tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post3060298226778971911..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Growth Boundaries PTA Meeting Last NightMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27639077926701793892013-11-14T14:16:50.888-08:002013-11-14T14:16:50.888-08:00Ok, this is definitely my last post on the topic, ...Ok, this is definitely my last post on the topic, but what I said was I believe the other plan was better for those same learners, north of 110th. I think this is working out worse for them, and i thought it would last year when i wanted JAMS to start in 2013. I think this is about the same for Eckstein, worse for APP, but the big loser in the delay is those families north of 110th not at the k-8 and JAMS in general. And no, I am not going to call for anyone to resign, especially not as you and I sit here behind our anonymous handles complaining about what they do, which is worth a lot more than you and me posting on a blog. That APP has had one bad political outcome no more means they are failures than does the fact that the k-8 is moving after the district promised you it wouldn't would mean you should boot your BEX committee, who gave just as good as they got, and won, by the way, so I 'd expect to see some grace if you're a part of it.<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77429036547463373042013-11-14T12:24:15.764-08:002013-11-14T12:24:15.764-08:00Like I said, you need to spend more time north of ...Like I said, you need to spend more time north of 110th / west of 35th Ave. Your last post only confirms.your myopia.<br />. I'm sorry you're in turmoil about the idea that the needs of the at-risk learners in Lake City merit equal if not greater consideration than families who can afford to feed their kids lunch every day. Fortunately 4 board members do feel that way.<br />. SNAPP? VNESS? Please don't get me started. If you really want to ensure a better outcome for the SNE in general and APP north in particular, please work with your communities to get the leadership of those two organizations to resign from any PTA and other parent/school orgs they may be associated with. Even if you believe their classic bully response that <i>they're</i> the ones being bullied, surely you see where their leadership and advocacy has gotten you.<br />i'm counting on you sleeper to open your eyes a little wider. I'm no longer bitter and cynical; i'm now signing off as....<br />SPWUN*<br /><br />*for ”sleeper, please wake up now” ;-) Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1549402046831187302013-11-14T11:12:02.544-08:002013-11-14T11:12:02.544-08:00No- the "mean" business was me trying to...No- the "mean" business was me trying to calmly repeat the sorts of things SnAPP and VNESS got called for wanting to start JAMS next year. I did not find the same split of compassionate/selfish among various advocates that you did, but then I wouldn't since I disagree about what the compassionate thing to do would have been. I still think that would have been a better call, but am trying not to be bitter myself when I see how this is ending up for JAMS with the delay. It is very hard, though, because like you I am unhappy with it, though unlike you I think the demographics would have been greatly improved if it had started last year (though I can agree that that might have been worse for the k-8, and I completely share their cynicism that the district can be trusted to follow through on long range plans). I have always been pretty cagey on here about where my kids to go to school, and actually I don't have a kid going next year (but soon after, and I think I should have more...). My kids will be split between Eckstein and JAMS, and I expect APP will be kicked out of the building before my APP kid finishes, so I admit it is hard to invest, but I am trying. I hope you are too, if, as I suspect, you are in the building now with families who expect to stay (how many exactly depends, I think, on how JaMS seems to be shaping up and what the buzz is around it.).<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33552346383813670942013-11-14T10:41:41.899-08:002013-11-14T10:41:41.899-08:00Hey sleeper, I got carried away by my anger and I ...Hey sleeper, I got carried away by my anger and I apologize for insulting you. I'll try to be more measured.<br />My perspective comes from the north NE, sounds like yours comes from the SNE (WW or VR perhaps?)<br />I do know families who send their kids to shoreline, none at the middle school level - so my anecdotal evidence biases me to think that state of Eckstein wasn't a factor as much as poor conditions at OH, SAC and JR. Conditions that JA K-8 helped alleviate BTW.<br /> if I read your post right, you feel that I and others who advocated for deferring JAMS a year were mean. I respectfully disagree. I can think of one John Rogers mom who advocated for delaying JAMS a year, who might fit that description, but most of her hostility was directed at the K-8. I found every other pro-delay+planning advocate, whether associated with JR, SAC, OH or JA K-8, to be extremely compassionate and even emphatic in their advocacy. Likewise the four board members who approved the delay+planning approach. Especially M. McLaren whose hard won swing vote totally arose from a genuine concern for the at-risk children on the north-end. <br /> Unless you're fluent in Spanish,.Somali and Arabic, you're not talking to a significant portion of parents whose kids will be at JAMS next year. It sounds like at least one of your kids will be going there next year. I urge you to work with Paula Montgomery and the JAMS planning crew rather than argue my cynical and bitter points. And I urge that crew to get to know all the JAMS fams, especially those north of 110th, west of 35th Ave NE.<br />I remain skeptical that JAMS will have nothing less than a rocky start, but maybe I can be a little less...<br />-cynical & bitterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17915492801067224102013-11-14T09:00:30.157-08:002013-11-14T09:00:30.157-08:00I'm talking about many current 6th grade famil...I'm talking about many current 6th grade families north of 80th who assumed they'd be at JAMS and wanted it to go ahead and start rather than start at Eckstein and then get pulled. This currently includes families mostly in the Eckstein zone, but last year was assumed would go to JAMS. Remember last year 250 APP kids were not a part of this equation, so the line was going to be a lot further south. The question was WHICH of VR and WW would go, not whether either would go at all.<br /><br />I read the numbers about Shoreline on here-300 I think. Yes, distance is a factor for the families I know (have you actually talked to any of them? I have), crowding, and also the gifted program(like our spectrum), all factors that change with JAMS.<br /><br />I think that you are just hoping to find insulting things to say about people who don't agree with your narrative, and it is true I have a child at Lincoln. But I have always assumed I'd end up at JAMS someday with one or more kid(and it looks like now I will, but not necessarily with the kid I expected to), so I do have some skin in this game. And I don't think it is better for JAMS to start as part of this mega political sideshow, and am not seeing the 18 months of planning everybody talked about. It is currently November, and so far I hear "we can't plan yet, because we don't know." I am hoping and trying to make the best of things, but I certainly don't think what happened is we put off opening JAMS last year like some mean people wanted to, and now all that super extra planning is obviously making things much better. I do hope the extra year has helped the k-8, but I think the jury is most definitely still out about what it's done for JAMS.<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61725325087030850532013-11-14T08:52:02.727-08:002013-11-14T08:52:02.727-08:00Lynn, thank you for posting the link to special ed...Lynn, thank you for posting the link to special education classes. However, it raises another question - where can I find a definition of what the different services mean? SM1 vs SM2 vs SM4??? I can't find any explanation anywhere on the SPS website of what these abbreviations actually mean.<br />I'm trying to figure out where to send my daughter next year, and there is just no comprehensible info posted. I could sit her preschool teacher down & make her explain all the categories to me, but I shouldn't need to - spreadsheets that use abbreviations should have a key included on the spreadsheet - that's standard practice in most workplaces.<br /><br />Mom of 4Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46809399059398761632013-11-14T02:38:03.038-08:002013-11-14T02:38:03.038-08:00@NE Grandma, 11/13/13, 1:54 PM:
Ha ha, but you'...@NE Grandma, 11/13/13, 1:54 PM:<br />Ha ha, but you're right of course. But note that the SNAPP crowd also comes from the south NE.<br /><br />@Louise, 11/13/13, 2:00 PM + @[Lake City Parent], 11/13/13, 2:06 PM<br />Thank you for sharing, amplifying and exemplifying<br /><br />@[sleeper], 11/13/13, 1:37 PM <br />I believe you <i>didn't really ever hear "no, I'm a NNE family, and I don't want my own neighborhood middle school."</i> That's not exactly a compelling data point. And <i>no one knew exactly who would be going to JAMS</i>? Where do you get that? Everyone following the BEX wars knew who was going to end up at JAMS – certainly no one north of 95th St. had any doubt.<br /><br />You say of the NNE <i>Many of them currently leave for Shoreline, since it's closer and Eckstein is so overcrowded</i> -- this was a point made frequently by the south NE/SNAPP advocates. I suspect you are/were part of that gang or maybe just a sucker for their propaganda. But until I see real data showing 1) how many NNE families currently send their kids to Shoreline (a high enough number to justify your saying "many of them"?) and 2) what, to the extent there are NNE Seattle families in the Shoreline school system, their reasons for choosing Shoreline are/were (does/did Eckstein's distance or density play into their decision?), I am not buying it.<br /><br />Also <i>the two loudest groups were the k-8 and the south NE</i>. Yes, though not in that order. And while the <i>far</i> north NE (e.g. Lake City) didn't get too much involved – I'd venture that was due to the district making too little an effort to reach out to non-native English speakers other disenfranchised populations – there were enough parents from the John Rogers and Sac assignment areas saying "we want our own neighborhood middle school" to give the prospective JAMS families a voice in the debate. I never, however, heard any who wanted JAMS to start without a planning principle and a year to plan. The only voices wanting JAMS to start last year were those of families from the south NE and of Directors DeBell, Carr and Martin-Morris. And since I'm reliving that circus I might as well remind anyone still reading: the short-term capacity management plan those Bozos championed (in which JAMS would have started last fall without any planning) did not reduce enrollment at Eckstein one bit. It rather swapped NNE riffraff for a more desirable contingent from Laurelhurst. Yuck.<br /><br />@Melissa Westbrook, 11/13/13, 2:24 PM<br />I share your skeptism. I believe Paula Montgomery has great intentions but wonder how much she's talking to the many low-income and immigrant families who'll be populating her school. How prepared is she to handle the disparate levels of preparedness for middle school among her student body? I also wonder to what extent district staff really care about the NNE – their behavior and proposals suggest not so much. And who on the board, besides Sharon Peaslee, has the bandwidth or even desire to ensure JAMS being anything but adequate?<br /><br />And so I remain,<br />Cynical & BitterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61403847918645325972013-11-13T18:41:38.697-08:002013-11-13T18:41:38.697-08:00Here is the link to all of the amendments.Here is the <a href="http://www.seattleschools.org/modules/groups/homepagefiles/cms/1583136/File/Departmental%20Content/school%20board/13-14%20agendas/111313agenda/20131113_Agenda_GrowthBoundaries.pdf?sessionid=69a322ede1fd3bdfc45ac09862c42fbf" rel="nofollow">link to all of the amendments. </a>kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32854231928776544192013-11-13T17:16:05.485-08:002013-11-13T17:16:05.485-08:00Following up on Melissa's post. Banda's r...Following up on Melissa's post. Banda's reaction is what I have come to expect from him. Many of the disenfranchised can take heart in his honest, straightforward take on the work product under his administration. No "mistakes were made" or plausible deniability BS.<br /><br />And yes there are laws that say parents with a native language other than English have a right to access to important information information provided English-speaking families. If anyone is going to get that, it is Banda who, like me, probably served as a translator for his parents.<br /><br />There is no quibble about budget priorities; there is Federal law, then there is everything else.<br /><br />Granted, I generalize here regarding which laws and under which instance but as we see with the OSPI dissing of SPS' performance under IDEA - there's plenty to correct and there are plenty of us who will hold them to it.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-3605795636928980422013-11-13T14:51:37.730-08:002013-11-13T14:51:37.730-08:00Thanks P03.
LN - the district isn't talking a...Thanks P03.<br /><br />LN - the district isn't talking about High Schools at all - and Lincoln won't be available until 2017-18 at the earliest.<br /><br />Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40143685579445655082013-11-13T14:39:04.849-08:002013-11-13T14:39:04.849-08:00One other item about what was discussed last night...One other item about what was discussed last night.<br /><br />Beacon Hill parent, Julie Van Arcken, was at the SE group session. Julie has done the research and raised a red flag over outreach done to immigrant/non-English speaking parent populations over the growth boundaries. <br /><br />She reports that she asked Tracy Libros, why the staff did not provide any translations of proposed materials until halfway through the process. <br /><br />"Tracy said she wasn't sure if it would have mattered whether they had provided translations from the start, and then she cited that the only effective outreach they've done in this process with minority communities occurred in Fairmount Park and Bailey-Gatzert. No outreach to minority communities has occurred in the SE, the city's most diverse region.<br /><br />When I asked the Superintendent to expand on Ms. Libros' reply that she didn't think it mattered when they provided translations, he said he disagreed.<br /><br />Superintendent Banda replied, "We missed the boat" in terms of linguistic outreach to non-English speaking communities."<br /><br />This is important to note as amendments go forward. If a whole region of the district did not understand (and was given the opportunity to understand) what was changing for their region, perhaps Director Patu is correct in asking that SE be removed from this plan.<br /><br />This all goes to a bigger issue that is two-fold.<br /><br />One, outreach, particularly translations and interpreters cost money. I'll just say that out loud because I know if figures into the district's thinking (as it should). So they have to balance those costs versus the kind of feedback they get when they spend the money.<br /><br />Two, but don't immigrant parents have the same right to know that the rest of us do? <br /><br /> Because I am hearing this kind of - what can I call it? soft paternalism - more and more. <br /><br /> I heard it recently at an Operations Ctm meeting about student data privacy when three people around the table - a service provider, a district lawyer and a Board member - all said notification to these parents about their students and their data use to third parties was more difficult and really, it was "probably" more important to the parents that the students received the services than if they signed a document allowing their students' data out.<br /><br />It was kind of breathtaking because none of us would want someone else deciding what is best for our children or that we probably didn't need the same information that other parents receive.<br /><br />But it's a thorny question nonetheless. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18414067313585684592013-11-13T14:38:59.281-08:002013-11-13T14:38:59.281-08:00Random comment, but the Directors' districts a...Random comment, but the Directors' districts are oddly shaped. As far as the north-end is concerned, we don't seem like a north, central and south type bunch. We would be better represented with a QA/Mag/South NW rep, and a rep for West of Aurora or I-5 north of, say, market or 65th.<br /><br />I am only pointing this out since I live in the NW. I am not saying there are other folks not being properly represented. I just feel like Peaslee represents the NNE part of town not the NNW part where I live. I was surprised by the maps of the Directors' districts.Odd Mapsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1440493198454509592013-11-13T14:27:25.057-08:002013-11-13T14:27:25.057-08:00Thanks for the answers, Lynn and Mirmac. Thanks for the answers, Lynn and Mirmac. Eric Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89905837356121868572013-11-13T14:25:59.021-08:002013-11-13T14:25:59.021-08:00Kelli - your explanation actually makes the most s...Kelli - your explanation actually makes the most sense and I suspect that in the future years the school will have less seats as the fully enrolled 9th grade Ib/IBX/Gen Ed cohort moves thru and more of these large groups come in.<br /><br />Not that this makes any families who wanted IB and were turned away feel any better.<br /><br />Lynn- I got the numbers from the final enrollment report and the capacity report that were posted on another thread awhile back. <br /><br />Po3noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65316093591236955172013-11-13T14:25:25.770-08:002013-11-13T14:25:25.770-08:00Two questions.
1. Is Chris Cronas still the plann...Two questions.<br /><br />1. Is Chris Cronas still the planning principal for WP?<br />2. Will Lincoln become the HS for QA/Mag, or will SPS continue to bus NW kids close to Ballard to Ingraham so QA/Mag can keep going to Ballard?<br /><br />Thanks.LNnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90963320420077617132013-11-13T14:24:58.884-08:002013-11-13T14:24:58.884-08:00If I really thought JAMS would match Eckstein in q...If I really thought JAMS would match Eckstein in quality of programs and extracurricular activities, I would be fine with my 6th grader moving there. I'm really skeptical though.<br /><br />And there you have it. Will JAMS be Eckstein, Jr.? No and it shouldn't be. It would be, no IS impossible for the district to instantly duplicate any school.<br /><br />But I know they know everyone is watching and I believe they will make JAMS academically attractive. But it will be impossible to roll out at JAMS if everyone now wants to stay at Eckstein. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19437966282119885382013-11-13T14:09:19.882-08:002013-11-13T14:09:19.882-08:00Hi Eric B,
As you intimated, I'm not really t...Hi Eric B,<br /><br />As you intimated, I'm not really tracking much of this capacity back and forth. You explained it very well. It is incorrect to go by % enrollment to figure number of students and their clasroom space needs. At least based on 12-13 #s, both Ingraham and NH have more high-needs students than Roosevelt (staffed at low student to teacher ratios). They are afforded classroom space for their programs. They also are afforded (under law) a general education seat (though they don't often get to use it).mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84334677253974394102013-11-13T14:07:47.830-08:002013-11-13T14:07:47.830-08:00Enrollment and capacity numbers are really inside ...Enrollment and capacity numbers are really inside baseball. You have to know much of the story for things to make sense. <br /><br />There is technically some space at IHS. I actually urged enrollment to add another Freshman cohort last Spring to take advantage of that space. They declined to do this because the 9th grade was at capacity and the available space was at the upper grades. <br /><br />My feeling was potato-po-ta-to. Whatever, space is space but enrollment was clear that they would not over-enroll 9th grade just because 12th grade was smaller. <br />kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41459951718413408892013-11-13T14:06:09.242-08:002013-11-13T14:06:09.242-08:00I'm a NNE parent and I want my 6th grader left...I'm a NNE parent and I want my 6th grader left at Eckstein. Eckstein has some great programs, which I'm doubtful will be replicated at JAMS. The previous principal started a computer science program, which is wonderful. My kids have learned basic software skills, video game programming,app programming, and robotics. Thanks to this program, my 8th grader wants to pursue a career as a robotics engineer. Eckstein, to my knowledge, is the only middle school in SPS with this program. My 6th grader was looking forward to continuing with CS classes and participating in the rocket club or on the robotics team. She also planned to take Japanese next year. Will that be offered at JAMS? Will higher math be offered, or will 7th graders be attending math classes with 10th graders at Hale?<br /><br />If I really thought JAMS would match Eckstein in quality of programs and extracurricular activities, I would be fine with my 6th grader moving there. I'm really skeptical though.<br /><br />Lake City ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38132050100317312492013-11-13T14:05:44.606-08:002013-11-13T14:05:44.606-08:00P03,
Where are you finding the number of empty se...P03,<br /><br />Where are you finding the number of empty seats at IHS?Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86213082511505561102013-11-13T14:01:29.752-08:002013-11-13T14:01:29.752-08:00P03 and Eric B,
This schedule of Special Ed class...<b>P03 and Eric B,</b><br /><br />This <a href="http://www.seattleschools.org/modules/groups/homepagefiles/cms/1583136/File/Departmental%20Content/enrollment%20planning/Current%20and%20Projected%20SPECIAL%20ED%20CLASSES%202013-14.pdf?sessionid=f5183dbbce55c2c0585a8df810b13aae" rel="nofollow">schedule of Special Ed classes</a> might be helpful.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49557255524086473172013-11-13T14:01:24.995-08:002013-11-13T14:01:24.995-08:00I heard Floe say, in September, I think, that he w...I heard Floe say, in September, I think, that he was hoping to make it work with the district so he could move/clear the wait list. It sounded consistent with the district being in charge there. <br /><br />Now this is ME talking: I think the district has incentive to keep numbers at school under a certain threshold because otherwise they would have to give the school more staff & money.<br /><br />ChrisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58744417819145824962013-11-13T14:00:20.995-08:002013-11-13T14:00:20.995-08:00C&B, yes, that is what I meant, sorry. I tota...C&B, yes, that is what I meant, sorry. I totally agree w/you. Seems painfully obvious that the VNESS and other folks were all "start JAMS now" to get other kids out of Eckstein. Now when the boundaries might include their own kids, there is much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Louisenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14809305747555357962013-11-13T13:54:14.559-08:002013-11-13T13:54:14.559-08:00Cynical & bitter,
you're being really unfa...Cynical & bitter,<br />you're being really unfair to the SNAPP leadership and other APP advocates who also advocated for a ”start JAMS now” approach for their own selfish reasons, without any regard to what the families in the actual Jane Addams neighborhood wanted. They too deserve credit for ”no love for JAMS”<br />NE GrandmaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39202199266511540482013-11-13T13:37:36.885-08:002013-11-13T13:37:36.885-08:00Cynical & bitter, I would not say that was an ...Cynical & bitter, I would not say that was an accurate assessment at all. NNE families want their own middle school; the area is dense enough to support it and many of the neighborhoods are becoming more vibrant by the secondl. Many of them currently leave for Shoreline, since it's closer and Eckstein is so overcrowded. Last year during the debating the two loudest groups were the k-8 and the south NE, partly because no one knew exactly who would be going to JAMS, so there were very few people wh actually could speak for JAMS. The ones I knew who thought they would go there wanted it to start last year, but there was no cohesive group, and absolutely no way to really get a feel for what people generally wanted(and it turns out those people are still in Eckstein's monstrous zone anyway now). <br /><br />I followed extremely carefully, and I didn't really ever hear "no, I'm a NNE family, and I don't want my own neighborhood middle school." Who goes and when exactly - you are right, those are points up for debate, though. I am disheartened that the district is not doing much to make it seem like an exciting new school, but that is on the district, not on families who understandably are not excited about joining a fairly unsupported program. The district could still turn it around- the meeting last week was a good start.<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com