tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post316729580428265754..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Math Talk in Friday UpdateMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89882981184115841932014-06-02T21:04:18.962-07:002014-06-02T21:04:18.962-07:00@dw and asking: The way to ensure that doesn'...@dw and asking: The way to ensure that doesn't happen is to remain vigilant on the issue and in support of the board. This matter is monumental for this district and a sea change from a few short years ago if we can pull it off. <br /><br />I'm as skeptical and cynical as both of you, but if we get the dual adoption, it will signal a big power shift at JSCEE. If the IMC stubbornly insists on thwarting the community that is nearly 2 to 1 in favor of MIF, they might want to recall a place called Waterloo. <br /><br />This community has suffered long enough at the hands of irresponsible, unaccountable administrative staff and overly deferential boards. This Board represents US, not a bunch of wealthy donors, finally. <br /><br />JSCEE staff would do well to realize that, the sooner the better. We've read their playbook and it isn't going to work this time. <br /> <br />WSDWGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17815493972393152942014-06-01T16:25:37.850-07:002014-06-01T16:25:37.850-07:00When my kid was at Salmon Bay 3 years ago, pretty ...When my kid was at Salmon Bay 3 years ago, pretty much the entire 8th grade was doing algebra. That's how they phrased it anyway - all 8th graders are doing 9th grade math, they said. So when she was a freshman at Ballard she was automatically in Geometry. Has this changed? Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76374064923480144092014-06-01T15:34:14.441-07:002014-06-01T15:34:14.441-07:00I suspect some of the answer lies in Common Core. ...I suspect some of the answer lies in Common Core. They all - either in words or blood - have pledged fidelity to CCSS even as there is virtually no real CC math book. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8701101837850120912014-06-01T14:12:38.834-07:002014-06-01T14:12:38.834-07:00Asking,
Bingo. You are right on the money here. ...Asking,<br /><br />Bingo. You are right on the money here. A dual adoption, even if it does happen, can be subverted through other means. I don't know if it's realistic to push for MIF only, at this point, but I'm uncomfortable with Pearson having <i>any</i> reach into our district, our students and our data.<br /><br />Speaking of Pearson, on the other thread there is a lot of talk about legal action, companies suing school districts, etc. But I also wonder about the shady stuff that we don't get to see. Doesn't it seem feasible that a company like Pearson has shadowy programs that attempt to influence staff around the country that make or inform these decisions? Perhaps not as explicit as "bribes", but why on earth would Heath, Tolley et al, be so damned set on Envision? It's clear they were from the onset, and the question is: Why?dwnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25574894447767287002014-06-01T14:12:03.821-07:002014-06-01T14:12:03.821-07:00Asking,
Bingo. You are right on the money here. ...Asking,<br /><br />Bingo. You are right on the money here. A dual adoption, even if it does happen, can be subverted through other means. I don't know if it's realistic to push for MIF only, at this point, but I'm uncomfortable with Pearson having <i>any</i> reach into our district, our students and our data.<br /><br />Speaking of Pearson, on the other thread there is a lot of talk about legal action, companies suing school districts, etc. But I also wonder about the shady stuff that we don't get to see. Doesn't it seem feasible that a company like Pearson has shadowy programs that attempt to influence staff around the country that make or inform these decisions? Perhaps not as explicit as "bribes", but why on earth would Heath, Tolley et al, be so damned set on Envision? It's clear they were from the onset, and the question is: Why?dwnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15470445606117567822014-06-01T11:41:23.308-07:002014-06-01T11:41:23.308-07:00If the board passes a dual adoption, what prevents...If the board passes a dual adoption, what prevents the district and/or ex. directors from strong-arming the principals into adopting EnVision??<br /><br />I think: Nothing.Askingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66312496603855478842014-06-01T10:46:48.814-07:002014-06-01T10:46:48.814-07:00That's true, Linh-Co, but really, if your chil...That's true, Linh-Co, but really, if your child is taking Algebra in 6th then they should probably be in an APP school. Acceleration to Algebra in 8th grade, however, seems like something that should be offered at every school, K8s included. It sounds as though some schools don't even offer that (and I'm guessing Salmon Bay is one of those schools?). <br /><br />There should be some minimum level of acceleration offered at every school, with clear guidelines on how to qualify...isn't that what ALO is supposed to offer? <br /><br />As a side note - The Hamilton policy took years to materialize after parents agitated. Hamilton was not offering Algebra to advanced APP 6th graders, as an APP pathway school, even though WMS APP had provided that option pre-split. It will not be until next school year at Hamilton that they will be offering an Algebra 2 class. And it's been how many years since the first APP split?<br /><br />realistAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32369303359194522362014-06-01T10:22:35.762-07:002014-06-01T10:22:35.762-07:00This is from the Hamilton 6th grade placement Q&am...This is from the Hamilton 6th grade placement Q&A:<br /><br /> <br />Should 6th grade APP students not attend Hamilton, will the same guidelines apply for placement? Is there a guarantee that an appropriate level class will be available in 8th grade (for those taking Algebra 1 in 6th grade)? <br /><br />Not all middle schools are offering Algebra to 6th<br /> grade students. Hamilton is committed to offering an appropriate 8th grade math class for students who take Algebra in 6th grade. <br /><br />Once again, this highlights the inconsistencies and equity between schools.Linh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63982623778416233112014-06-01T10:06:26.041-07:002014-06-01T10:06:26.041-07:00Hamilton's 6th grade math placement info (whic...Hamilton's 6th grade math placement info (which should not be different from other middle schools) has more detailed info in terms of MAP scores and placement. The skills listed for 7th grade math placement are the general 6th grade standards, and the skills listed for 8th grade math placement are the general 7th grade standards. <br /><br /><a href="http://hamiltonms.seattleschools.org/modules/groups/homepagefiles/cms/1708841/File/2013-2014%206th%20Grade%20Course%20Selection/2013_14_6th%20grade%20Math%20FAQs.pdf" rel="nofollow">6th grade math placement</a><br /> <br />You don't say if your child is doing additional math outside of school, if your child has been tested for AL services, or what program your school is using (do they use CMP in middle school?). The chart will give you an idea of where your child should be concept wise in order to accelerate. There are many other standards not listed on the table such as geometry (area, surface area, angle relationships, etc.) and data, statistics, and probability. <br /><br />If you've contacted your principal and Executive Director and have not gotten any resolution, then the Math Department head may be the person to contact for clarification. We have had many instances when we've been told something by the school or principal that was simply against district or state policy. If your child wants to accelerate, and you have evidence your child is capable (grades, MAP scores, or MSP scores) then you should continue to push for something different. Are there really no other students accelerating in math at your child's school? <br /><br />What's more important, that your child remain at that school, or have access to more advanced work? You could spend your child's entire middle school years agitating for something different...but the school may not change. <br /><br />realistAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42860800224637950462014-06-01T09:26:07.016-07:002014-06-01T09:26:07.016-07:00Thank you Linh-Coh and the rest who have weighed i...Thank you Linh-Coh and the rest who have weighed in on my question. In answer, yes I'd like my student to have the option for calculus in HS. But more important now is keeping math engagement up in MS, and it just isn't happening at the current pace.<br /><br />I guess I'm really confused - the SPS notification method gives schools a choice on how to notify families of suggested math coursework, but it <i>doesn't</i> spell out the choice for schools not to notify at all. My K8 does not seem to send out notifications and no it does not offer multi-math tracks. <br /><br />We are invested in the otherwise-great fit school, but this seems a big problem and also possibly a violation of SPS procedure. If my principal doesn't care and our executive director is frankly worthless then do I have any hope or method at all for changing the system for my student and others in the same boat? <br /><br />Brick WallAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1439863624507552402014-05-31T23:57:04.236-07:002014-05-31T23:57:04.236-07:00Anything we can do to get away from Pearson is in ...<br />Anything we can do to get away from Pearson is in our children's best interest!<br /><br />http://kuow.org/post/proposed-sale-seattle-student-data-site-worries-officialsConcernednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40935135406217382292014-05-31T22:56:27.801-07:002014-05-31T22:56:27.801-07:00The document provided by Director Peters and Direc...The document provided by Director Peters and Director McLaren is well researched, comprehensive and well Certainly, better than I've ever seen from SPS.<br /><br />Samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83291503650742683802014-05-31T16:40:28.725-07:002014-05-31T16:40:28.725-07:00IDK...Years ago, I trusted the district to make a ...IDK...Years ago, I trusted the district to make a math decision for my children and they bothched the adoption. I ended-up taking one child to Kumon. By the time my second child was in school..the school took it upon themselves to implement a different math program..I mean...the school supplemented Every Day Math....;0)<br /><br />I trust Peaslee, Peters and McLaren to make a sound decision. I no longer trust the district.<br /><br />I'm also concerned about the botched process that got McGraw thrown-out. Disgustednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68518838447630972682014-05-31T13:39:02.472-07:002014-05-31T13:39:02.472-07:00For math placement, you may want to think in terms...For math placement, you may want to think in terms of the ultimate goal for your child - is it to get through Calculus in high school? Then Algebra in 8th grade with a one-year math acceleration may be enough challenge, in which case you'd want to be in 7th grade math in 6th grade. The assistant principal at our school actually suggested taking 6th and 7th grade math, then accelerating to Algebra in 8th - so, skipping 8th grade math rather than 6th grade math. The reasoning was that much of 8th grade math is linear equations and topics covered in Algebra.<br /><br />Whatever level of acceleration, you can't count on the school to fill in any gaps from leaping ahead a year or two. You should find out what concepts are covered in 6th, 7th, or 8th grade math and make sure your child covers them independently. It could be as simple as doing some workbooks on fractions and percents over the summer (we like the "Key to..." series they sell at Math-n-Stuff for specific topics). Even if your child doesn't accelerate, practicing skills outside of CMP homework may be beneficial.<br /><br />-been thereAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35475246657165899322014-05-31T11:11:22.780-07:002014-05-31T11:11:22.780-07:00@ Brick Wall,
What school are you at? Does your ...@ Brick Wall,<br /><br />What school are you at? Does your school not offer advanced math classes for middle school?<br /><br />Unfortunately, it is somewhat at the discretion of individual schools. For example, a 250 RIT score on the winter MAP will qualify 6th grade students at Hamilton for algebra. Whitman does not honor this score and does not offer anything beyond one grade level up for 6th graders. <br /><br />You may consider single subject homeschooling. This idea is getting more popular with parents. <br /><br />Here's the link to middle and high school placement:<br /><br />http://www.seattleschools.org/modules/cms/pages.phtml?sessionid=522cf0b442ce7682b387550f15f31d4f&pageid=211123&sessionid=522cf0b442ce7682b387550f15f31d4f<br /><br />6th & 9th Grade Math Course Placement Information<br /><br /><br />In early spring, schools will receive placement recommendations for students based on each student’s current math course, grade in that course (for 8th grade students), teacher recommendation, most recent state test scores, and MAP data.<br /><br />The data will also be used to make recommendations for students who will benefit from either additional support or a more accelerated mathematics pathway as they enter middle or high school. <br /><br />Schools may choose to send letters to notify parents of math placements, or they may choose to notify parents through the same methods they use to communicate other course placements and schedules. <br /><br />Frequently asked questions about the Math Pathway and 6th/9th Grade Math Placement<br />Math Pathways Pathway Contract for 6th/9th Graders Opting Up <br />Linh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40160485351557525272014-05-31T10:52:21.344-07:002014-05-31T10:52:21.344-07:00PS: Our school uses District standard math curricu...PS: Our school uses District standard math curriculum nominally. Mostly it seems that teachers especially in middle school have cobbled together their own courses - for worse but also for better.<br /><br />Brick WallAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8008472899154371902014-05-31T10:45:59.872-07:002014-05-31T10:45:59.872-07:00Linh-Co, You seem to be more knowledgeable than st...Linh-Co, You seem to be more knowledgeable than staff on the math trajectory of SPS students. Thank you for sharing that knowledge and for advocating for better math. I also have a question for you.<br /><br />My 5th grade student tested in the 240s for spring map at a K8 option school. No letter has come to our house about math advancement. No teacher at the school, nor principal, is offering even an ALO for 6th grade math, let alone move-to-7th-grade math. Are K8s exempt from the SPS math advancement rules? Is there some place I can take this problem beyond my school? Thank you again for your insight. <br /><br />Brick Wall Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17878042685002900312014-05-31T10:33:08.984-07:002014-05-31T10:33:08.984-07:00Of the current 5th grade class at Schmitz Park, 51...Of the current 5th grade class at Schmitz Park, 51% will or may skip 6th grade math. Of 70 students, 27 scored 235+ on the spring 2014 map math test and will automatically advance to 7th grade math. Another 9 scored 228-234 qualifying them to take the middle school assessment to be placed into 7th grade math. <br /><br />How many of the other peer schools can cite those numbers?Linh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35479303134413244762014-05-31T10:26:08.674-07:002014-05-31T10:26:08.674-07:00It takes four to pass the amendment. Just Peters a...It takes four to pass the amendment. Just Peters and McLaren is a nice gesture but gets nothing done for MIF.<br /><br />DistrictWatcherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78596645078157333512014-05-31T10:19:08.716-07:002014-05-31T10:19:08.716-07:00Thank goodness the directors are doing a better jo...Thank goodness the directors are doing a better job than the administrators on math adoption. The administrators wanted to ram through what they wanted, going against the survey favoring Math in Focus. This is exactly what happened on the adoptions of Discovering and Everyday Math, opposed by parents and science instructors at UW.<br /><br />Math is the biggest weakness in curriculum at SPS. You would think Banda would want the best choice available. If he is supporting the administrators, then he is a big disappointment.<br /><br />I am glad I volunteered for Marty McLaren on her campaign. She and Peters get the math.<br /><br />S parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77294703522782522482014-05-31T08:03:03.173-07:002014-05-31T08:03:03.173-07:00Good point Deja vu,
Note that many of the school...Good point Deja vu, <br /><br />Note that many of the schools, such as North Beach, have been using waivers for alternate math curricula for almost 10 years. The student improvement will have stabilized and appear to be static. My kid found that when she and her cohort of students went from North Beach elementary into the APP program in middle school they were WAY ahead of the other APP students computationally. <br /><br />I think the district doesn't really care which programs work. They only want to erroneously cite data that appears to support their policy decisions. <br /><br />-QuiteBitterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7023035088049571882014-05-31T01:46:13.588-07:002014-05-31T01:46:13.588-07:00I'm taking bets on when the Times will publish...I'm taking bets on when the Times will publish it's first post-math adoption vote scolding the board for micro-managing and calling for the end to school boards. 12 hours? 24? WSDWGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76897926359877700702014-05-31T01:43:36.199-07:002014-05-31T01:43:36.199-07:00The SGP standard is yet another red-herring tossed...The SGP standard is yet another red-herring tossed in to make SP look bad. I'm surprised the SGP numbers weren't even higher at other schools that dumped EDM. Any school already doing well won't have high SGP #'s. This is an NCLB trick designed to declare anything but constant student "growth" a failure. "99% two years in a row? You fail!"<br /><br />WSDWGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77578425438029440152014-05-31T00:39:29.363-07:002014-05-31T00:39:29.363-07:00This report that came out today doesn't discre...This report that came out today doesn't discredit Schmitz Park. Rather it discredits the district.<br /><br />Had Eric done the same analysis for the preceding 3-year period, I am almost certain the results would have looked much better for SP.<br /><br />There was no good, honest reason <br /> to use only the most recent three years of data.<br /><br />There is no good, honest reason to fail to mention in the report that the test case (Schmitz Part) differed from the controls [peer schools, state average] in the magnitude of student population growth over the analysis period.<br /><br />Schmitz Park had to bring in a significant # of teachers new to Singapore Math and get them trained. Unless each new teacher was already a really good math teacher and familiar with SPM, the classroom scores for the teacher's first couple years at least would be below typical for the school.<br /><br />This report makes me embarrassed for SPS.<br /><br />Sup. Banda: Are you embarrassed?<br /><br />Joan NEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84112552115381462122014-05-30T21:39:57.965-07:002014-05-30T21:39:57.965-07:00Thank God Peters won the election. This would not...Thank God Peters won the election. This would not be a possibility if Estey was in office.<br /><br />Thank you Directors Peters, McLaren, and Peaslee for hanging it out there for the community. We know it hasn't been easy and that amendment took a huge amount of time to put together.Linh-Conoreply@blogger.com