tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post3674959814485875482..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: We Want Cliff Mass!Melissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49233155873769928702011-05-23T23:35:12.734-07:002011-05-23T23:35:12.734-07:00KUOW is a two-bit operation and this just proves i...KUOW is a two-bit operation and this just proves it. Cliff was completely within his rights to talk about math. I like my son's Everday Math and I don't know about Discovery Math, but to fire him? Totally absurd. The guy is a professor and the only one who was on regularly. Why not get an opposing prof from the Ed dept. tp talk about education each week? KUOW is truly a sorry excuse for public radio. I hope Cliff tries to get on KPLU in Tacoma and give Steve and Katy a verbal thumping.<br /><br />We need new blood at KUOWWe Love You Cliff!noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70212758763446122322011-05-22T00:00:49.123-07:002011-05-22T00:00:49.123-07:00News stations have a responsibility to present var...News stations have a responsibility to present various viewpoints on matters of opinion. They have no such responsibility, and in fact MUST NOT present various viewpoints on matters of fact.<br /><br />The FACT is, admitted undergraduates at UW have abysmal math skills. The FACT is, student performance on standardized math tests has fallen with the introduction of "exploration-based" math texts. The FACT is, students admitted to UW have outstanding credentials, and those who fail to gain admittance have distinct weaknesses.<br /><br />I can see how these facts offend some people, but then, I'm used to dealing with religious zealots, and I recognize how difficult it is when one's faith is challenged by reality.<br /><br />I've been a supporter of KUOW for 20 years. I'm done. I think I'll send the money to the National Center for Science Education instead (http://nsce.com).Josh Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17242600011474990770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15306658523627209642011-05-21T18:09:58.089-07:002011-05-21T18:09:58.089-07:00On NPR: Car Talk this morning sponsored by BROAD F...On NPR: Car Talk this morning sponsored by BROAD FOUNDATION Superintendent Training Program, with that ad followed IMMEDIATELY by an ad for the GATES FOUNDATION.....Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22005745032990038972011-05-21T17:01:22.088-07:002011-05-21T17:01:22.088-07:00WSP2 said...
That Prof. Mass is not an education ...WSP2 said...<br /><br />That Prof. Mass is not an education expert.....<br /><br />WSP2 please show me the data that backs your opinion ... do you have any facts?<br /><br /><b><i>WSP2, Do you find the recommendations of the UW CoE to be better than those of Prof. Mass for math?<br /><br />Here are some data point trends that you need to explain:</i></b><br /><br />In regard to UW Professional development =><br /><br /><a href="http://mathunderground.blogspot.com/2010/09/uw-professional-development-gone-bad.html" rel="nofollow"> The Math Damage caused by UW CoE Math Education Project></a><br /><br />Check out these results in regard to reading and math.... in Seattle =><br /><br /><b>4th Grade Math</b><br /> OSPI annual Pass rates <br />Year ..... WHITE .:. BLACK ..::.. GAP<br /><br />04 WASL 78.00% : 36.40% :: 41.60%<br />05 WASL 79.60% : 33.10% :: 46.50%<br />06 WASL 76.00% : 31.30% :: 44.70%<br />07 WASL 79.80% : 32.00% :: 47.80%<br />08 WASL 73.90% : 27.60% :: 46.30%<br />09 WASL 78.80% : 29.10% :: 49.70%<br />10 MSP 77.70% : <b>28.20% :: 49.50%</b><br /><br /><b>4th Grade Reading</b><br /> OSPI annual Pass rates <br />Year ..... WHITE .:. BLACK ..::.. GAP<br /><br />04 WASL 87.50% : 55.70% : 31.80%<br />05 WASL 90.90% : 61.60% : 29.30%<br />06 WASL 90.50% : 61.60% : 28.90%<br />07 WASL 90.20% : 64.90% : 25.30%<br />08 WASL 87.80% : 56.80% : 31.00%<br />09 WASL 89.80% : 53.60% : 36.20%<br />10 MSP 84.10% : <b>43.30% : 40.80%</b><br /><br /><b>10th Grade Math</b><br /> OSPI annual Pass rates <br />Year ..... WHITE .:. BLACK ..::.. GAP<br />04 WASL 58.70% : 11.30% : 47.40%<br />05 WASL 57.10% : 12.90% : 44.20%<br />06 WASL 72.20% : 21.70% : 50.50%<br />07 WASL 70.80% : 19.60% : 51.20%<br />08 WASL 68.30% : 16.00% : 52.30%<br />09 WASL 69.90% : 16.30% : 53.60%<br />10 HSPE 68.10% : <b>12.50% : 55.60%</b><br /><br />In Seattle HS .. Prior to Spring 2006 all students in HS for two years took the WASL as <i>Grade 10 students</i>.... effective Spring 2006 only students with sophomore credits were allowed to take the WASL and be considered as 10th graders tested. Thus the big bump up in Spring 2006.<br /><br />Note the Pass rate for Black students with Sophomore credits has bombed out at 12.5%<br /><br />.. looks like Mass can read data and draw reasonable and logical conclusions ...<br /><br />What say you in defense WSP2?dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35127797931905339682011-05-21T15:37:06.748-07:002011-05-21T15:37:06.748-07:00RogerRR said "But he's got no basis to cl...RogerRR said <i>"But he's got no basis to claim that Mr. Floe was terminated for opposing education reformers."</i><br /><br />On the contrary, I thought that was pretty obvious. Bree Dusseault = Ed reformer. Floe failing to kowtow to boss = Firing.Chris S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17016898261120819596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2585044433109272062011-05-21T14:01:53.610-07:002011-05-21T14:01:53.610-07:00That's right, we should leave the expert comme...That's right, we should leave the expert commentaries on education to the experts. We have lots of PhD expertise in SPS adminstration. Dr. Goodloe-Johnson is an expert. All wealthy philanthropists are experts. Cathy Thompson is an expert. Bree Desseault is an expert. All KUOW and ST journalists are experts. Science professors are most definitely NOT. OK, I get it.<br /><br />Under current math curriculum, I have 2 kids who didn't learn their multiplication table by grade 3 until we taught them at home (contrary to expert's opinion). They learned to figure out mean, mode, range, and median though. They don't have a clue what these terms mean, but hey, they are shiny according to their teachers! (Take that Singapore Math.) Then again, neither do most grown up and mainstream media when they look at statisitical data (real estate, home prices, income, test results, etc.) Which is perfect, as it keeps us plebians dumb and fixated on reality TV instead.<br /><br />I am no educational expert, but I am fast becoming an expert BS spotter when I see and hear one. <br /><br />-Learning on the curveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14385453984033832782011-05-21T13:09:47.606-07:002011-05-21T13:09:47.606-07:00We wouldn't even know who Cliff Mass was if KU...We wouldn't even know who Cliff Mass was if KUOW hadn't put him on the air to talk about the <i>weather</i> every Friday for a few minutes. I think if Vaughn Palmer, the weekly Canadian correspondent, insisted on talking about Puget Sound weather half the time, the outcome would have been similar.<br /><br />BTW, I agree with Mass on most educational issues, and you can't blame a guy for trying to take advantage of his situation, but trying to make himself a martyr over this is pretty pathetic. His own account shows that KUOW talked to him about what they wanted. It isn't his show.<br /><br />(And don't worry about your tax dollars. KUOW is almost entirely self-supporting.)Listenernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36671587637249154382011-05-21T11:29:02.218-07:002011-05-21T11:29:02.218-07:00Mr. Mass is a fine weather prognosticator. An expe...Mr. Mass is a fine weather prognosticator. An expert in K012 education, he is not. KUOW will get my dollars for stopping his rants.WSP2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73270941471627017182011-05-21T09:51:43.928-07:002011-05-21T09:51:43.928-07:00Shouldn't a lifelong educator and professional...Shouldn't a <i>lifelong educator and professional researcher and educator,</i> know this? ----><br /> <i>ummm, he's a science professor - how could he possibly NOT be qualified to judge math skills of students?</i>Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76699359477300661742011-05-21T01:39:38.852-07:002011-05-21T01:39:38.852-07:00Discovery math is NOT a research-based theory, it&...Discovery math is NOT a research-based theory, it's a failed hypothesis. Science means when your results don't match the hypothesis, you reject the hypothesis.<br /><br />The hypothesis was: Inquiry based math will engage all students better, improve math understanding and close the achievement gap. We've done the experiment: Seattle adopted fuzzy math at all levels, students arrive at college less prepared and the achievement gap widened. Cherry-picked studies don't change this fact. It's time to discard the hypothesis, not cling to politics.<br /><br />Convective turbulenceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42371391157664814772011-05-20T17:40:31.329-07:002011-05-20T17:40:31.329-07:00WOW! Math & Weather? Who'd a thunk?
I use...WOW! Math & Weather? Who'd a thunk?<br /><br />I used this google thing, and found<br /><br />http://www.atmos.washington.edu/academics/courses.shtml<br /><br />http://www.amath.washington.edu/research/#atmos<br /><br />Maybe Prof. Mass neglected to point out that Calc 126 is a pre-req for many of the Atmospheric Science classes?? Maybe he forgot to mention that the horrible skills of our kids mean those kids will NEVER have a clue what to do with the following from the Applied MATH department - <br /><br /> "mathematical methods for studying the hydrodynamical instability of shear flows, transition from laminar flow to turbulence, applications of fractals to turbulence, two-dimensional and quasi-geostrophic turbulence theory and computation, and large-scale nonlinear wave mechanics."<br /><br />C'mon people ...<br /><br />Math and Weather don't mix? <br /><br />PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29523821752884922852011-05-20T17:21:03.705-07:002011-05-20T17:21:03.705-07:00From Stranger Slog Comments:
"I'm surpri...From Stranger Slog Comments:<br /><br />"I'm surprised, um, that Steve Scher, um, managed, um, to um, complete a, um, thought at all, um. Let alone, um, one, um, as complex as firing, um, someone. Um.<br /><br />I didn't even know Cliff Mass was on Weekday, because I have to change stations when Scher is on. That halting, um-filled style induces road rage. Even if I'm in my apartment."<br /><br />I knew there was a reason why I quit listening to Scher years ago.Steve Scher's Vampirenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54999619316299934032011-05-20T17:02:08.134-07:002011-05-20T17:02:08.134-07:00SPS Teacher
I do not understand the disconnect be...SPS Teacher<br /><br />I do not understand the disconnect between SPS and UW math/science professors when it comes to math education.<br /><br />Kids who get into the UW are not failing math students. They are A students with 4 years of math, many with AP math. They are capable kids who have been led to believe that they have mastered high school math. <br /><br />Yet, they get to UW and find out that they have not mastered the math needed to progress in college level math & science. The math & science professors have not changed their expectations of students math skills over the years, but have watched as successive classes of students have fewer of the required skills. <br /><br />SPS charts continued student growth in math from increasing WASL scores to increasing AP math classes. They say that students are better prepared in math. <br /><br />Someone has it wrong. <br /><br />At least I know about it, because of Cliff Mass & others at UW. So I can help my kids bridge the difference. But there are a lot of other kids who are being done a great disservice by keeping it quiet and unexamined.<br /><br />ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64938761801688070492011-05-20T16:44:52.209-07:002011-05-20T16:44:52.209-07:00Cliff Mass is/was a zealot who was often off-topic...Cliff Mass is/was a zealot who was often off-topic on his segment. He was specifically granted his slot on KUOW to share his expertise on weather and meteorology --- that's it. As is typical of the "Where's the Math?" crowd, Cliff used his one-way format to promote a narrow, and often radical, point of view on math education and the state of mathematics performance of WA students and to STIFLE debate. This format provided NO ONE with the opportunity to debate his point of view. He has consistently used his position and title to bully others.<br /><br />I am glad he is gone. His behavior was wholly inappropriate.A True Progressivenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62187923287808021002011-05-20T16:24:00.473-07:002011-05-20T16:24:00.473-07:00Count me as one who will financially boycott KUOW ...Count me as one who will financially boycott KUOW over this decision. Not so much because I support Cliff in particular (although I do, and I especially appreciate his outspoken views on math and other subjects), but because it appears to send a chilling, censorous message to anyone who doesn't toe the line.<br /><br />When will NPR learn?Johnny Calcagnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12198948404356096884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22347543801952114122011-05-20T16:04:51.923-07:002011-05-20T16:04:51.923-07:00Martin Flynn's numbers come from the 2009 Wash...Martin Flynn's numbers come from the 2009 Washington State Personnel Detail - put out biennially by OFM - so yes, those are accurate as of Jan. 2009 - I'm sure they've gone up a bit since then. <br />@SPS Teacher - ummm, he's a science professor - how could he possibly NOT be qualified to judge math skills of students?someonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63091082279941145242011-05-20T14:22:43.978-07:002011-05-20T14:22:43.978-07:00SPS Teacher, how is the state of math education no...SPS Teacher, how is the state of math education not an area of Professor Mass's expertise? He's a teacher, too. Every year he has to teach a mathematical science to students who don't understand the laws of exponents or trig identities. This is not comparable to Linus Pauling recommending megadoses of vitamin C for everybody.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16260807460417787614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22387481121297308242011-05-20T13:34:52.135-07:002011-05-20T13:34:52.135-07:00I don't think that comment is fair. Cliff Mass...I don't think that comment is fair. Cliff Mass did provide on his blog a lot of research links to back up his understanding of the current state of math education. You can disagree with the research he chooses to put forward, but you can't just dismiss/ignore it.<br /><br />As well, he uses math. Everyday. And he is in a position to see the quality of math education when kids get to college, and how that has changed over time. He is an educator, and part of what he teaches is how math is used in science. I don't understand the statement that math education is outside his expertise. Are you saying that one who has an education degree has more expertise in math education than, say, a mathematician?Sydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08715140880268606856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49179927277272636972011-05-20T13:34:20.484-07:002011-05-20T13:34:20.484-07:00If this post (http://lbloom.net/uw09.html ) is cor...If this post (http://lbloom.net/uw09.html ) is correct, then in 2009 Prof. Mass earned 13,498 x 9 months, for a total of $121,482 for the year. I don't know if he always is paid for only 9 months, and of course, we don't know what additional sources of income he may have as a result of his status as a professor. <br /><br />In any event, vastly more than just about everyone from KUOW, assuming Martin Flynn's numbers are accurate.RosieReaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16509678140588070623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58173251881640064842011-05-20T13:28:54.232-07:002011-05-20T13:28:54.232-07:00Martin Flynn -- what does Cliff make? We're p...Martin Flynn -- what does Cliff make? We're paying his salary too.RosieReaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16509678140588070623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62916680210368369362011-05-20T13:25:38.621-07:002011-05-20T13:25:38.621-07:00Steve Scher receives a salary from the state of Wa...Steve Scher receives a salary from the state of Washington of more than $7,000 per month, Katy Sewall more than $4,200 per month, Guy Nelson $6,500, KUOW CEO Wayne Roth $11,500 and Arvid Hokanson, assistant program director and chief apologist, more than $5,900. This does not include generous pension and medical benefits.Martin Flynn Public Affairs, Inc.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14636333454348775281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33792793940176674132011-05-20T13:25:07.450-07:002011-05-20T13:25:07.450-07:00Sorry for the typos :(
Should have correctly spe...Sorry for the typos :( <br /><br />Should have correctly spelled "himself", and the last line should be "Whether I agree with him or not, he does have standing on that basis."<br />-PerplexedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61424937041437753892011-05-20T13:21:27.697-07:002011-05-20T13:21:27.697-07:00SPS teacher, I never thought his commentary was st...SPS teacher, I never thought his commentary was strictly personal. Dr. Mass is a UW science-based professor who sees the results of K-12 math instruction. He also teaches college level math and science material hiomself. Whether I agree with him or not, he does have standing based on that basis.<br />-PerplexedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62481790434173085952011-05-20T13:14:00.228-07:002011-05-20T13:14:00.228-07:00As a lifelong educator and professional researcher...As a lifelong educator and professional researcher and educator, I find it very difficult listening to "stars" talking about information that is not in their area of expertise. I found this true for Cliff Mass. <br /><br />I have always been impressed with the comments on this blog- people promoting research based theories and hoping/trying that SPS district works toward implementing them. Cliff Mass talking about his own personal philosophy around math does not make sense to me. It gives me pause, what do people truly think of teachers?<br /><br />SPS TeacherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54902635960088305392011-05-20T13:01:52.316-07:002011-05-20T13:01:52.316-07:00This saddens me, I just wrote to KUOW, the main pa...This saddens me, I just wrote to KUOW, the main part of my message is below:<br /><br />I totally agree with Katy Sewall's decision to keep the cranky educational curmudgeon stuff out of the meteorological segment of the show. It doesn't fit there, and the journalistic integrity issues are real. It's a good show and you all do a great job with it.<br /><br />I also think you're missing an opportunity here. He's a professional scientist and educator who has real opinions about science and education. He likes talking about it and people like listening to it. I'm sure that if you could carve a distinct non-weather time to discuss education with him and others who have differing views, that would benefit everyone in the way that public radio is supposed to.<br /><br />If there's a way to let the passionate opinionated folks like Cliff Mass (and Charlie Mas and Melissa Westbrook and others) to discuss education without it turning into cable-tv style punditry, I would trust KUOW to pull it off.Martin Cronnoreply@blogger.com