tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post3800139502739896984..comments2024-03-18T16:51:10.406-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Mayor's Final Youth and Families ForumMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56546152715211726212010-03-26T10:50:18.618-07:002010-03-26T10:50:18.618-07:00Hi Melissa, this is Aaron, the facilitator from yo...Hi Melissa, this is Aaron, the facilitator from your Youth&Families group on Monday night. Can I get your email please? Mine is aaron.fishbone@seattle.gov. Thanks!AFishbonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15538458463404672294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83561806331788176012010-03-24T21:16:32.728-07:002010-03-24T21:16:32.728-07:00Joan, you do a whole lot of misinterpreting, and t...Joan, you do a whole lot of misinterpreting, and then apologizing. You attack, and then claim you mis understood. It's getting old, and it's time to stop it now. <br /><br />Don't assume everyone is out to sink the ship, especially Melissa who is one of the most informed parents in this district, and onr of our strongest advocates. <br /><br />I hope we can all agree that anyone who takes time out of their hectic lives to read and contribute to this blog is passionate about education. So, though our opinions may differ from time to time we need to keep it respectful. You can state your opinion, without attacking the opinion of others.<br /><br />Joan please edit yourself.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37592796382679428522010-03-24T21:12:09.477-07:002010-03-24T21:12:09.477-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37800809450627161232010-03-24T19:26:20.848-07:002010-03-24T19:26:20.848-07:00Very interesting thread. However, does anyone else...Very interesting thread. However, does anyone else see the "muddle" here? Maybe the city should stick to it's "business" and schools to theirs. Smaller class sizes, early learning, Head Start, and higher education, F/R lunch are really not things the city should normally "meddle" in, are they? If they really want to help, why don't they start by letting Hale (?) keep their greenhouse and save the district $600k?wsnorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03795943009142572757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2153685999661951242010-03-24T18:19:32.830-07:002010-03-24T18:19:32.830-07:00A little toxic in here tonight. Take a breather f...A little toxic in here tonight. Take a breather folks. <br /><br />That said, I wish folks would move away from the "Mayoral Control" as a goad or a club to make the Board to their jobs. I think plain old voting at the ballot box, for better candidates next time around, is a far better solution, considering what we'd lose under MC. That model has almost completely disenfranchised parents in Chicago, D.C. and New York, and the games they've been playing their make MGJ & the Board's antics here in Seattle look like Child's play. <br /><br />I want this Board to get the message that they will work with parents, or not, to their peril, and at risk of being tossed out on their butts in the next election. <br /><br />The Gang of Four has taken BIG $ from a select few LEV folks, and that's who's agenda they are pushing. If the press would cover that story, we'd be having a serious discussion about real accountability, but nobody in the press seems to be willing to take that on, so we get hard working speculators amongst district parents. <br /><br />Try to keep it respectful, clean and fair folks. Don't let your hard work be in vain. The last thing we need is parents fighting with parents. Thanks.wseadawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750439461734046035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32733060341185503502010-03-24T18:09:15.186-07:002010-03-24T18:09:15.186-07:00Melissa - I was skimming through the entire thread...Melissa - I was skimming through the entire thread starting from the very top, when I came across a comment I had made, and which must be the comment that angered you so -- the one that had "voice of the blog" phrase in it. <br /><br />I somehow forgot about this specific comment, and didn't understand why you were so angry. <br /><br />Having found this comment I do now understand. <br /><br />I am quite sorry. I wish I had not made that offensive comment - I didn't realize at the time I wrote it how offensive it was.Joan NEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02810050976533673804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13704661206366339052010-03-24T18:08:08.527-07:002010-03-24T18:08:08.527-07:00I'm not sure what Melissa has said regarding m...I'm not sure what Melissa has said regarding mayoral control. I'm not sure how "the media" will use (or not) her words.<br /><br />Melissa is a member of coalition that aims to have input into educational policy. Many of us are involved with other people who have the same aim (to influence policy; maybe different goals therein)<br /><br />I can see why Joan could make a statement that Melissa might be guiding opinion, or that others might use her opinion: it's become a relatively powerful voice, due to her diligence and activity.<br /><br />I would caution all of us to avoid speaking for whatever "group" as we voice our opinions to whoever. The fact that you're in a group is great: more power in numbers, even if I, personally, disagree with someone's opinion (or the goals of the group) But we DO know how easy it is to use the voice of one, or the voice of a few, and make claims about something. The media (or even the district) COULD use Melissa's words in their own nefarious ways. I'm sure Melissa is cogent of this.<br /><br />I think the "outline" of plausible action that Joan illustrates is not so far fetched. While I try to maintain some perspective and try to believe that there ISN'T some grand plan to just change everything, all the signs point in that direction. Just because The Times, that bastion of neutral reporting, might not agree with McGinn on all points, they've certainly got their own agenda that might find strength in advocating for the Mayor to "take over." The Times has certainly jumped on the "teacher quality" bandwagon: I don't see many articles about budget cuts and their effect in the classroom, or the "quality" of all the other participants in a child's education lately...They HAVE drunk the Koolaide on TQ, and it's their latest hit.<br /><br />As an aside, I collect books and recently found the report in 1905 of the Iowa Supt., describing how they are consolidating rural schools into county districts, using science and efficiency models (down to the size of student desks), making the cert process uniform...and dang it, some of those teachers are just laggards!<br />This tells me that a) the process of turning education into an assembly line is ongoing; now it's just ramped up; and b) it's always the teachers, never the larger issues of race, class, and systemic problems.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84663905165655743822010-03-24T17:53:49.587-07:002010-03-24T17:53:49.587-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Joan NEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02810050976533673804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13623569020844757692010-03-24T17:47:33.987-07:002010-03-24T17:47:33.987-07:00You know Melissa, that fact that I, and perhaps, o...You know Melissa, that fact that I, and perhaps, others worry about how the press will interpret your comments could be seen as a compliment.<br /><br />It's evidence that your words and your expressed opinions have a lot of impact.Joan NEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02810050976533673804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21909134832476805542010-03-24T17:45:55.650-07:002010-03-24T17:45:55.650-07:00I agree with Melissa, JoanNE, you are antagonistic...I agree with Melissa, JoanNE, you are antagonistic and seem to take every opportunity to attack anyone that doesn't agree with you and then feign that you were misunderstood. You are misunderstood so often that at some point you should being to wonder about your understanding.north seattle momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16398949285827606629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45299724088815499612010-03-24T17:16:38.276-07:002010-03-24T17:16:38.276-07:00Well, you know, Melissa can bluff and Joan can spe...Well, you know, Melissa can bluff and Joan can speculate. I think Joan labeled her speculation better than Melissa labeled her bluff. But that would kind of blow the bluff, wouldn't it.<br /><br />Even heated discussion is waaaay better than apathy, silence, and ignorance. You go, girls! Or, as they say these days, grrls. I didn't offend anybody there, did i?<br />Let's just hope it stays speculation and bluffing. Would be a sad reality indeed.Chris S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17016898261120819596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1644337137102157362010-03-24T16:57:39.459-07:002010-03-24T16:57:39.459-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Joan NEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02810050976533673804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49708297612509907442010-03-24T16:54:17.280-07:002010-03-24T16:54:17.280-07:00I just read Keepin'On's comments. I just w...I just read Keepin'On's comments. I just want you to know I do not deliberately misinterpret Melissa's comments.<br /><br />Keepin' On, I sure hope you are right - that Mayor will find that there is no support - from the Times or from any quarter - for mayoral control.<br /><br />I know one person so far thinks my interpretation of Melissa's comment is unreasonable. Anyone else?Joan NEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02810050976533673804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22645236867716114222010-03-24T16:47:13.713-07:002010-03-24T16:47:13.713-07:00Melissa, I am afraid you misread my statements. I...Melissa, I am afraid you misread my statements. I am sorry for any angst this has caused you.<br /><br />You write "I have NEVER put myself out there as the "voice of the blog". Again, where's your proof? Right, there is none. I don't even call it "my" blog because it's Beth Bakeman's."<br /><br />Melissa, will you reread what I wrote?<br /><br />Please notice that I wrote, "PUNDITS [my capitals] will use her support as evidence that the community supports mayoral control."<br /><br />Thus, you can see that I did not say that you claim to be voice of the blog. PUNDITS are mistaken if they represent your opinion as the voice of the blog.<br /><br />I totally agree that I was INTERPRETING you statement to mean that you support mayoral control. I wrote "how else are we to INTERPRET Melissa's statement?"<br /><br />Will you please kindly tell me the correct interpretation of the statement to which I was referring:<br /><br />""To that point of the Mayor and district control, all I can say is someone better take control pretty soon. Dr. G-J seems so myopically focused that she seems to miss parents AND the big picture. And the Board seems helpless/unwilling/unable to do anything."<br /><br />Who would you have take control?<br /><br />I ask others on this blog - is my interpretation so unreasonable?Joan NEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02810050976533673804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38036280922950939632010-03-24T16:35:39.667-07:002010-03-24T16:35:39.667-07:00Right on Melissa!
Joan, you have a tendency to ma...Right on Melissa!<br /><br />Joan, you have a tendency to make inflammatory statements about Melissa, when you are either deliberately misinterpreting her statements, or are just plain unable to appropriately interpret statements and intent from people's comments. <br /><br />You also lose credibility by suggesting the Seattle Times and will support the Mayor and control of schools. I don't think you have a good take on how this Mayor is viewed by media, or city departments, or business. None of them respects this Mayor or thinks he can govern effectively. I do believe that they are just holding their collective breaths for the next four years in hopes he doesn't do anything too stupid.<br /><br />And to suggest that the PTSA is some kind of secret cabal type organization in favor of charter schools....well I can't even respond to that.<br /><br />Yikes!Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12875541753709754758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27696100768150155092010-03-24T15:19:25.054-07:002010-03-24T15:19:25.054-07:00Joan, with all due respect, you're an idiot. ...Joan, with all due respect, you're an idiot. You do put inference, conjecture and nonsense into anything someone else writes that you don't agree with. Enough.<br /><br />I have NEVER put myself out there as the "voice of the blog". Again, where's your proof? Right, there is none. I don't even call it "my" blog because it's Beth Bakeman's. <br /><br />Again, you are "interpreting" what I say. I got the PI to print a retraction for making up something based on what I wrote in the voter's pamphlet for the levies. How about you?<br /><br />You are making up statements about me and here's my official word:<br /><br />I am NOT for mayoral control. Never said it, not once, not anywhere. I am trying to goad the Board in to doing their jobs so the Mayor DOESN'T have ammo to take over the schools.<br /><br />Also, the members of the Seattle Council PTSA do not, would not and are not trying to "trick" anyone into anything. You MAY think that but don't say they are. <br /><br />You really make this blog unpleasant with your constant and unwarranted attacks.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66282812525369699092010-03-24T13:45:46.362-07:002010-03-24T13:45:46.362-07:00Well, thanks to grousefinder at the top of this th...Well, thanks to grousefinder at the top of this thread, we can at least stop arguing about whether McGinn favors mayoral control.<br /><br />That said, when he says "the district" does he mean the board? That I would object to, for several reasons. 1. Voting for board members being one of the very few ways in which parents can influence the district. 2. This board does whatever MGJ wants, so it's not clear that replacing them would change anything. 3. It's not clear legally that McGinn can do this in WA BUT it does appear that parents CAN, thru a recall campaign.<br /><br />In other cities, mayoral control has meant the mayor removing the board, and in most cases the person in the mayor's seat has been friendly to Broad, Gates, etc. Our mayor is kind of a black box, although Mallahan got the union vote, which is not a good sign here. Has anyone checked the billionaires on his campaign contribution list?<br /><br />If the mayor could and would "take over" by removing the superintendent, fine. But let me keep my vote.Chris S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17016898261120819596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19578263749288067192010-03-24T13:04:09.902-07:002010-03-24T13:04:09.902-07:00wseadawg - If you think I am advocating for mayora...wseadawg - If you think I am advocating for mayoral control, then you have grossly misunderstood me.<br /><br />I am no fan of the Broad Foundation. I have seen what this organization has achieved in other districts that it controls - and I don't like at all what I see.<br /><br />I am making PREDICTIONS about what will happen UNLESS parents and teachers get organized NOW and WORK TOGETHER on a smart opposition campaign.<br /><br />Melissa's support for mayoral control worries me a lot because pundits will use her support as evidence that the community supports mayoral control - regardless of the fact that Melissa's personal opinions reveal nothing about the majority view in the community.<br /><br />Here is what Melissa wrote earlier in this thread:<br /><br />"To that point of the Mayor and district control, all I can say is someone better take control pretty soon. Dr. G-J seems so myopically focused that she seems to miss parents AND the big picture. And the Board seems helpless/unwilling/unable to do anything."<br /><br />Melissa has taken strong offense in the past when I say she supports mayoral control, but how can we intrepret this statement of hers otherwise?<br /><br />Besides getting rid of MGJ and making sure we don't get another reformer to replace her, these might be among the most critical areas for parent-SEA cooporation:<br /><br />a)call for the Board to revoke High Stakes Testing policies, to put in its place a policy that calls for appropriate constructive uses of standardized assessments, and to hold the Superintendet accountable for honoring this policy.<br />b) call for the Board to revoke Superintendent's nearly unfettered power to close and reconstitute schools, <br />c) call for the Board to revoke Superintendent's nearly unfettered power to move principals at will, and give local school communities a very strong influence on principal placement.<br />d) work with SEA to come up with a professional teacher evaulation framework that includes parent assessments of teacher performance that is broadly pleasing to the teacher and parent community. <br />e) work with SEA to develop an enlightened, well-researched definition of Quality District and Quality School against which we can measure whether the District is headed in the right direction or not, and whether the District leadership is making GOOD choices. [The district's "2010 Quality Schools" statement is consistent with high stakes testing.]<br /><br />f)form a work group to develop a research based, best-available science, genuine, constructive plan for reform of SPS, and that has the highest probability of enabling the District to fulfill the community-endorsed vision of Quality District, and for every school, the community-endorsed vision of Quality School, such that SPS' BEST TEACHERS will WANT to teach at high poverty schools!<br /><br />h) work to elect to the Board individuals who will hold the Superintendent accountable for upholding every school Board policy, and especially will hold the District accountable for using the community-endorsed vision of Quality School to guide efforts to help schools AVOID the NCLB five-step "school improvement" ladder, for increasing its success rate at getting schools OFF the ladder. [It turns out that once a school gets on the ladder, it has a very low probability of getting off]<br /><br />Unfortunately, of all the parents in this community who are aware of the harm that MGJ is doing, it appears to me that not more than a small handful want to do more than whine about what is happening, or put out fires at just their little school. <br /><br />It doesn't accomplish much to put all the effort into attempting to put out little brush fires when the Arsonist is allowed to run free and continue to set more fires.Joan NEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02810050976533673804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58190105503741426772010-03-24T12:07:30.863-07:002010-03-24T12:07:30.863-07:00I haven't read all the comments yet, but PUH-L...I haven't read all the comments yet, but PUH-LEASE do not advocate for Mayoral Control, ever, anywhere, under any circumstances. Talk about ZERO transparency and influence! Talk about 4 years of hell! OMG! <br /><br />Get Mayoral control out your heads right now. <br /><br />FASTER!wseadawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750439461734046035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65114893606322917542010-03-24T11:06:17.217-07:002010-03-24T11:06:17.217-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Joan NEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02810050976533673804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27388087092086568942010-03-24T10:57:49.332-07:002010-03-24T10:57:49.332-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Joan NEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02810050976533673804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54546644935524356232010-03-24T10:43:42.892-07:002010-03-24T10:43:42.892-07:00One other thing that I would like to add about the...One other thing that I would like to add about the Initiative's meeting is that the solutions that were listed by my group, if addressed, would begin to close the achievement gap that the mayor and everyone else is takling about.<br /><br />You can have all of the tests in the world, but until we address these specific issues, there will be children failing and falling through the cracks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88754824315479241732010-03-24T10:25:07.411-07:002010-03-24T10:25:07.411-07:00I am just going to leave my impressions regarding ...I am just going to leave my impressions regarding absences.<br /><br />Re: days with substitutes- & we have a lot of them-subs ( and teachers) make mistakes- they mark one child here- another not- transposing their names, or your child is quiet and not heard- any # of reasons.<br /><br />If you don't check right away- you can't get the absence removed ( and if you even know about it)-if it is more than a couple days.<br /><br />On the other hand we have kids skipping school, and when their parents are called, they say it is excused. That isn't doing <i> anyone</i> any favors.<br /><br /><br />I think attendance is very important for both students and teachers- my daughter has had teachers who NEVER miss class, or very rarely, and she had others who were gone for family trips, right after school started.<br /><br />I think teachers shouldn't be going to school if they are sick- but if a student is ill, I would like to see more support for the school to accomodate their illness, get them the work they missed- or if they are too ill to finish it, to work with them to find an alternate project so that they don't lose credit.<br /><br />I also don't think the Mayor needs to be in control- let the city manage the properties- perhaps if the Mayor can twist the arm of GJ so that somebody is accountable and promises are followed up on?<br /><br />Maybe we need a bigger board? They represent a fairly dense population and have a lot to cover- I think it is appropriate that they represent segments of the city rather than special interest groups, but I also think they are well intentioned- and just have way more than they can manage-<br /><br />I also find it interesting that while virtually all of the past board members were obviously interested enough in Seattle public education to hold directors seats, few continue that involvement after their term- although they may still be involved with children/youth concerns.<br /><br />I feel if they weren't so burnt out, we would be better served by using their experience to deal with current & future issues.Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13470071021803807652010-03-24T10:20:11.591-07:002010-03-24T10:20:11.591-07:00PS I was elected from my small group to be a deleg...PS I was elected from my small group to be a delegate to the Youth and Families Congress in June--I'll give you an update after that. <br /><br />Also, I don't know that you want to turn over maintenance to the City. The buildings will be neglected unless keeping them up is a clear priority from the top. I wouldn't necessarily worry about that in the current administration, but what about two down the line?<br /><br />SPS may suck at maintaining buildings, but at least the District is nominally in control. <br /><br />EricUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06031534251373393921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47546509825962415482010-03-24T10:15:32.433-07:002010-03-24T10:15:32.433-07:00When I went to the event at Northgate, it was also...When I went to the event at Northgate, it was also very full, but it started on time. There was a lot of griping about behavior in our group, which was mostly retired people. I was the only parent, and I brought our kids along as well. <br /><br />On the absences front, the official guidelines for keeping elementary kids home are pretty loose. For example, if they're coughing, you're supposed to keep them home. If we did that, one of our kids would miss nearly a quarter of the year!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06031534251373393921noreply@blogger.com