tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post4168244976724708503..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: News That is Spreading Across the CountryMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger186125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8076590782705697242015-04-28T14:19:54.118-07:002015-04-28T14:19:54.118-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.ConcernedSPSParenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15225940383725947861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60836251526302140132015-04-28T10:34:37.544-07:002015-04-28T10:34:37.544-07:00Clarification: RTT funding committed the state to ...Clarification: RTT funding committed the state to SBAC.Dorn's Failurenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4265169332123056982015-04-28T10:33:56.182-07:002015-04-28T10:33:56.182-07:00I'm noticing comments related to costs associa...I'm noticing comments related to costs associated with SBAC, but we got $40M RTT to institute this cr$%.Dorn's Failurenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70998830751437354602015-04-28T09:51:08.213-07:002015-04-28T09:51:08.213-07:00What I find so sickening is that while the state i...What I find so sickening is that while the state is in contempt for under-funding schools they have NO problem finding money to implement SBAC testing.<br /><br />And Dorn's threatening statement about opting out, while he ignores the testing chaos schools are experiencing, is insulting to the people he was elected to serve.Po3noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37345922323844054892015-04-28T09:35:20.071-07:002015-04-28T09:35:20.071-07:00"Much like the sps central office claims thei..."Much like the sps central office claims their overhead as something like 7%, they claim testing is $22, when obviously it is a lot more. Any fool can see that."<br /><br />Indeed.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4264623917598435962015-04-28T08:38:27.947-07:002015-04-28T08:38:27.947-07:00lotsa, I am simply responding to katydid's ver...lotsa, I am simply responding to katydid's very specific request. See above.<br /><br />--- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23074884274950173792015-04-28T08:34:30.051-07:002015-04-28T08:34:30.051-07:00I think you need to categorize state vs district c...I think you need to categorize state vs district costs. It may be cheaper for the state, yet the cost burden has been shifted to the districts in terms of technology requirements. SPS is also using the interim assessments at select schools (paid for by a grant this year?). <br /><br />lotsa $$Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72272855400381242472015-04-28T08:18:30.581-07:002015-04-28T08:18:30.581-07:00katydid and cmj, the fiscal note for HB 1450 (from...katydid and cmj, the <a href="https://fortress.wa.gov/ofm/fnspublic/legsearch.aspx?BillNumber=1450&SessionNumber=63" rel="nofollow">fiscal note for HB 1450</a> (from the 2013 legislative session) indicates that OSPI reported that the SBAC ELA and math assessments would cost a combined $20 (not including the formative/interim assessments which would be an additional $8), while the cost of the MSP was $30 per reading, writing, and math test, or $90 combined.<br /><br />I think OSPI significantly low-balled the costs of the SBAC assessments in their fiscal note since they're now reporting in their <a href="http://www.k12.wa.us/assessment/StateTesting/FAQ.aspx#6" rel="nofollow">OSPI State Testing FAQ</a> that the state is saving $6 million dollars by moving to SBAC assessments.<br /><br />--- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33631116786215404192015-04-28T07:57:56.117-07:002015-04-28T07:57:56.117-07:00Reader -- fair point, the ~$25/test cost that SBAC...<b>Reader</b> -- fair point, the ~$25/test cost that SBAC gives us doesn't list the cost of computers (and district PR). I should have been clearer there. <br /><br />In my defense, I was answering katydid's question about base test cost (computers presumably not included). katydid asked: <i><br />Does anyone know offhand (or a source for) the costs of the SBAC v. the MSP test. I'm only wondering about the hard costs of buying the test, having it graded etc. Not the intangible costs of loss of instructional time.</i>cmjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02451641218340300556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72738569102593424682015-04-28T06:29:50.824-07:002015-04-28T06:29:50.824-07:00Reality Check, we won't have a 30% pass rate i...Reality Check, we won't have a 30% pass rate in HS. The state is going to set graduation cutoff scores such that about the same percentage of kids pass via these mew tests as did via the old. New test, similar end result in terms of graduation rate. <br /><br />Half FullAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50905615374616239082015-04-28T05:43:57.118-07:002015-04-28T05:43:57.118-07:00cmj, that small amount doesn't count the enor...cmj, that small amount doesn't count the enormous computer infrastructure , used almost exclusively for SBAC and it's smaller, dumber cousin Amplify. Nor the maintenance cost of that computer infrastructure. We never needed those computers before SBAC. It doesn't count the fact that high schools have to all hire permanent and fulltime test coordinators. It doesn't count the salaries of teachers. 1/3 of a teacher's salary should rightly be billed to testing. Much like the sps central office claims their overhead as something like 7%, they claim testing is $22, when obviously it is a lot more. Any fool can see that.<br /><br />And clearly, when they have to spend loads on advertising... defending why the SBAC isn't all that bad as it's reputation takes a beating, those PR costs won't be billed to testing.<br /><br />ReaderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86925967851768112012015-04-28T00:05:03.303-07:002015-04-28T00:05:03.303-07:00katydid, the Smarter Balanced test costs about $22...<b>katydid</b>, the Smarter Balanced test costs about $22 - $27 per student (see <a href="http://www.smarterbalanced.org/resources-events/faqs/" rel="nofollow"><br />About the Smarter Balanced Assessment System<br />-><br />What will the assessments cost?</a>)<br />. I think that states pay slightly different prices depending on how many students they have taking the test.<br /><br />In defense of <b>swk</b>: just because <b>swk</b> is promoting an unpopular opinion (that I disagree with) does not mean that he/she is a corporate stooge. Heck, by that logic, CollegeBoard could be paying me to promote the SAT and AP tests! If swk had only shown up recently and only commented on SBA, then I might be a bit suspicious. Yet that's not the case.cmjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02451641218340300556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81395237465939278282015-04-27T23:15:11.414-07:002015-04-27T23:15:11.414-07:00Stop the insanity, do you feel comfortable naming ...Stop the insanity, do you feel comfortable naming the middle school you were speaking about? I know our 8th graders are taking it now and that will for sure lock me into the opt our camp for my younger student. <br /><br />If not I completely understand. And thanks for the update from the field. <br /><br />-QA momAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80000080340783996462015-04-27T21:17:31.473-07:002015-04-27T21:17:31.473-07:00HS Parent, that's a good question for your hig...<i>HS Parent, that's a good question for your high school.<br /><br />--- swk</i><br /><br />No it isn't a good question. You say this as if there's any plan at all for increasing skills. There isn't. Getting around the testing requirements is already handled by high schools today. They'll just have to kick into high gear if we have a 30% pass rate. High schools offer COE (collection of evidence) class for kids who fail state tests. They already do this. In that case, their teachers create a portfolio from the work they do in class. Instead of students taking SBAC and failing it again, students spend their elective credits taking COE. So students who most need to develop a talent, skill, or hobby - are stuck in a lame portfolio class, collecting evidence of their worth instead of learning something that might be useful to them in the future. If students have an IEP, they have a number of options - all expensive to the school. School psych's can find and deliver an LDA (locally determined assessment) that the student can pass. This will probably be what is used often, soaking up valuable psych time. Or families can convince their IEP teams that they are in the lowest 1% cognitively, with regard to any given SBAC portion (or EOC) - and participate in a portfolio. No, you don't have to have a test. Way less than 1% of students do this now, so there's plenty of room on the "portfolio" boat so long as students are made to swallow their pride and admit to being cognitively deficient, for purposes of state testing. <br /><br />Whatever the alternative route to SBAC testing - loads more time and money will need to be spent to jump through graduation hoops. None of it will benefit students. All of it will cost students who can afford it the least.<br /><br />Reality CheckAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8071517404153018512015-04-27T20:42:20.733-07:002015-04-27T20:42:20.733-07:00Kids are going to be mentally spent before they ev...Kids are going to be mentally spent before they even get to the math portion. Pretty sad. You can opt out at anytime...even in the middle of the testing. If a student doesn't want to continue with the testing, they can simply verbally refuse. <br /><br />opt out?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33227990115953086482015-04-27T19:45:52.360-07:002015-04-27T19:45:52.360-07:00Uhh no, Seattle Citizen. The teacher who is admi...Uhh no, Seattle Citizen. The teacher who is administering the class - is also administering the SBAC. SBAC wins. There isn't anybody to do "differentiation". I don't know any other way to do it - unless we go to a private company administering the test too. (Can't imagine any problem with that.) In that case, we'd get the good students (the ones who can finish in the 8 hours allocated for ELA and math) getting instruction when they finish - and the other students staring at a screen for weeks.<br /><br />Stop the InsanityAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26433673226084473782015-04-27T19:41:06.035-07:002015-04-27T19:41:06.035-07:00SWK freely offers up that he/she has 2 teenagers. ...SWK freely offers up that he/she has 2 teenagers. But when asked if they go to private school, which seems obvious - he/she eschews the questions. Too personal! BS. The only person who would love the SBAC - is one whose kids DON'T have to take it! No skin in the game. The kids went private.<br /><br />Reader<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70003153667410562392015-04-27T19:35:07.803-07:002015-04-27T19:35:07.803-07:00Dorn threatens teachers with investigation"
...Dorn threatens teachers with investigation"<br /><br />http://nwpr.org/post/students-refuse-tests-washington-superintendent-warns-consequencesDorn Threatensnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47490939814573805022015-04-27T19:28:10.432-07:002015-04-27T19:28:10.432-07:00Stop the Insanity - This is where the differentiat...Stop the Insanity - This is where the differentiation I mentioned above comes in handy: Since the tests are taking so much longer than they should be in so many schools, teachers who have only half their class present (the rest are still testing) should continue with the planned instruction. When those students who were testing finally return.....differentiate! Continue planned lesson while also repeating previous lesson for those who were testing! Easy-peasy!<br />: )seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81776475913236924652015-04-27T19:19:55.478-07:002015-04-27T19:19:55.478-07:008th graders at our school were supposed to have fi...8th graders at our school were supposed to have finished the first half of the SBAC ELA in the 2 hour timeframe allotted. Unfortunately, we had to give them 3 hours. About 20% are done (with the first HALF of the ELA). About 20% of the students, are less than half done (with the first half of the ELA). Everyone will wait around while students finish. Clearly, we need at least another period (hour), and probably 2 periods. Periods are around an hour. I guess rapid finishing students can continue to do school service and homework as their slower classmates finish. THEN - they will move on to the second half of the ELA. Who knows how long that will take. Safe to say, the whole ELA will take 8 hours of class time or more. This amounts to about 2 weeks of class time. Then, students can press on to math. Clearly, we will not be able to offer preferential test times to students because there aren't enough "preferential" test times left in the year.<br /><br />How can ANYBODY say 8, 10, 16 (if you count in the math) hours of computer testing is going to yield anything reliable? It isn't developmentally appropriate to sit around doing a computer test for that long, for middle schoolers. NOBODY else on the planet has to do that. And yet, you're saying "it's reliable". It's not developmentally appropriate, or appropriate period.<br /><br />Stop the InsanityAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54591096708877430172015-04-27T18:31:22.217-07:002015-04-27T18:31:22.217-07:00"For the purposes for which they are designed..."For the purposes for which they are designed, the SBAC assessments have been found to be reliable and valid."<br /><br />By whom? The SBA group?<br /><br />The answer to this is yes and no. The consortium, like every state with a state assessment program under NCLB, must have a technical advisory committee. TACs are made up of assessment experts from across the nation, mostly from universities. SBAC has a TAC.<br /><br />One role of the TAC is to ensure that the consortium/state adheres to recognized standards for educational testing. The entire testing program is examined by the TAC to ensure the test makers follow these standards for reliability and validity. SBAC's TAC determined that standards and protocols were followed and that the assessments were/are valid and reliable.<br /><br />--- swkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16598265206251400442015-04-27T17:21:18.548-07:002015-04-27T17:21:18.548-07:00A couple of people have asked what supports are in...A couple of people have asked what supports are in place for HS students who fail SBA, or any high-stakes test for that matter - EOC, HSPE....<br />Virtually none. While some few schools offer remedial math and/or reading classes, not all do. Furthermore, students have many credits they need to earn, electives they want to, or, frankly, should be taking so there is little time in most schedules for remedial classes.<br />I suspect that this is one of those areas where the focus on "whole schools" as successful or unsuccessful causes inequity and damage to individual students: I would posit that the schools with the most free and reduced lunch students probably have more remedial classes, but that's a guess. So perhaps a student who is struggling at one of the more generally high-achieving HSs might find fewer remedial options. Furthermore, those schools might typically have a) more extra-curricular activity; and b) the higher-achieving nature of the school might bias students against being placed in remedial settings - it would "look bad." For that matter, how many students want Reading Class on their transcript?<br />So what is the new new thing to address purported deficiencies in student proficiencies?<br />Differentiation! All teachers WILL differentiate instruction, assessment....unit planning....syllabus? to meet the needs of a variety of skill levels. This is why class sizes are getting bigger: it makes the variety of skill levels even greater and more fun to differentiate to! Wheeee!<br />Ask an admin, they'll tell you: differentiation is EASY!<br />This is how schools purport to support students who are not at "level" on the Test.<br />One thing I will say about standards: they DO provide a framework for vertical and horizontal alignment, so teacher at 9th grade might expect a certain sequence of instruction K-8. And 9th grade teachers in rooms next to each other, or across city, are MAINLY teaching similar concepts. But that's not to say it should all be measured and quantified and standardized and digitized - this is education, not a Samsung manufacturing plant.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89461596205317872922015-04-27T17:05:51.824-07:002015-04-27T17:05:51.824-07:00"For the purposes for which they are designed..."For the purposes for which they are designed, the SBAC assessments have been found to be reliable and valid."<br /><br />By whom? The SBA group?"<br /><br />Absolutely. Watchingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62194530460796882672015-04-27T17:05:21.178-07:002015-04-27T17:05:21.178-07:00"For the purposes for which they are designed..."For the purposes for which they are designed, the SBAC assessments have been found to be reliable and valid."<br /><br />By whom? The SBA group?"<br /><br />Absolutely. I believe we will be hearing more on this issue.<br /><br />Watchingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57741069268075540642015-04-27T16:41:19.089-07:002015-04-27T16:41:19.089-07:0011th graders are being tested this year to collect...11th graders are being tested this year to collect data to determine what needs to be done to ensure they can pass the test when it becomes a graduation requirement beginning in 2019. <br /><br />So essentially these students are piloting the test for this years 8th graders who will have to pass it to graduate. I would assume that when they see the results they will re-tool 9th and 10th grade instruction so they are prepared to pass the test in 11th grade.<br /><br />I have no idea why the state made the decision to give 10th graders and 11th grade test, based on a set of standards they were not taught. And made it a grad requirement, other than it does ensure a 0% opt out rate and they will be able to collect data.<br /><br />9th graders will also be required to take the SBAC next year to meet graduation requirements unless something changes at the state level.<br /><br />Concerned 10th grade parent<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com