tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post4319270578220726846..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Just WonderingMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4896530475846666752012-03-29T17:43:55.822-07:002012-03-29T17:43:55.822-07:00Braesse is right, SPS would want us to just get ti...Braesse is right, SPS would want us to just get tired of hearing about this story. They would want to sweep it under the carpet just as soon as they can. The next issue concerning finding a school site for north end APP will provide the opportunity for the issues over these principals to be eclipsed. It is important to keep both in full view.<br /><br />APP supporterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12019463098374275322012-03-27T19:09:57.269-07:002012-03-27T19:09:57.269-07:00Lie. LIE down and eat grass. Apologies to Englis...Lie. LIE down and eat grass. Apologies to English teachers everywhere.<br /><br />BraessaeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59597027510680030912012-03-27T02:16:41.433-07:002012-03-27T02:16:41.433-07:00Concerned and Ellen: it doesn't necessarily &...Concerned and Ellen: it doesn't necessarily "have to" be true that nothing more happens, though I am sure that is what King, Geoghagan, and the District all want. But it will take a concerted effort on the part of parents (either as an ad hoc group or the PTA -- without the help of its president) AND the special ed parents as an independent group. If I were a parent of a special ed, APP, or ALO/Spectrum/regular ed kid, there is no way I would want someone as a principal for my child who did the things (or failed to do the things) that King did (or failed to do). There has to be another answer, beyond just the "oh well, ho hum" one that the Superintendent and the Board are giving. <br /><br />This is terrible governance by the Superintendent. To think that King is staying, while she tried to get rid of Martin Floe. The mind boggles. <br /><br />What they want now is for everyone to be "tired" of it. What they want now is for those seeking further relief to be told to "move past it" for "the sake of the kids." What they want now is for those who refuse to stop pressing for a more just solution to be branded as trouble-makers, or (in the words of the fine peter p on another post -- "haters.") Parents without kids in the school don't have much ability to affect this, though I am sure that many will support you if you refuse to say "baaaa" and lay down and chew grass. Just as the RBHS parents have had to be the ones to demand fair treatment of their kids, it will be up to parents at the two Lowell schools to insist on a better resolution than the bland, watered down slap-on-the-wrist that has been offered to date. <br /><br />BraessaeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26898368145830537442012-03-26T23:18:45.075-07:002012-03-26T23:18:45.075-07:00I have to say yelling at kids or belittling them h...I have to say yelling at kids or belittling them happens in other schools as well. Friends have discussed this and it happens in very nice schools with great ratings. It happens usually when the teachers are tired, overwhelmed and have kids who are unrelenting with their misbehaviors and stirring up the classroom. I've also been on field trips when children are yelling on public buses, shoving, etc. and the teachers just sit there. It's the parents who must tell the kids to stop the behavior. I've seen kids getting hugs by teachers and parent volunteers. Sometimes it's the kids who come up and give the adults the hugs.<br /><br />It's seem like there need to be some clearer boundaries set for all. But in the real world, if you hear a teacher yelling at a class or a group of kids about their ill manner or bad behavior, is that always bad? Is calling out their "behavior like those of idiots" going too far? What about when parent volunteers share stories about certain students with other parents (not related to the students) on the playground about test scores, behavioral issues, things they may have heard, speculated about, or may have discussed with classroom teacher? Sometimes what get discussed isn't even correct, and bad "info" gets passed on. I've intervened and refuted such stories only to get the sense that nipping gossip is like nipping air from people. In the end, gossips win. Kids lose.<br /><br />-real worldAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76134888262280624412012-03-26T23:18:04.184-07:002012-03-26T23:18:04.184-07:00Ellen, I am sorry to be a messenger but it doesn&#...Ellen, I am sorry to be a messenger but it doesn't look like the principals will soon be moved from their "power" position.<br />See the latest article about how to move on:<br /><br />http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017846280_lowell27m.html<br /><br />-ConcernedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43462591060464450232012-03-26T22:40:04.542-07:002012-03-26T22:40:04.542-07:00All Mr. King would have had to do is have this per...All Mr. King would have had to do is have this person revisit the training that was given to the entire staff last year about what "professional touch" is allowed by the SPS. Teachers/staff are not to give frontal hugs. They are not supposed to touch someone's leg or knee, etc. Foot Kissing, or pretending to do foot kissing would not be considered professional conduct. The teachers who reported were not suggesting that this was "sexual touch," but rather "non-professional." It was seen as being a bit "creepy" and made them uncomfortable.<br /><br />The fact that the reporting teachers were retaliated against and targeted, was a completely unwarranted response for an administrator to do. The fact that he dismissed the reporting as being "racist" in nature was also unwarranted. Calling the "race card" is a serious, inflamatory charge. Mr. King has been seen to say pubicaly that this entire investivation on him was a "racial" attack. I believe that he is using that as a smoke screen. <br /><br />What was the story as to why he needed to leave his school district in Atlanta. Does anyone know how to find out about that. I would like to look that up. I've heard that it shows a story of unsuccessful handling of his staff. I believe it from what I witnessed at Lowell last year.<br /><br />I'm glad the investigative report is out, and I hope that these two principals are taken out of their "power" positions.<br /><br />EllenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66645618536281970262012-03-26T22:08:43.829-07:002012-03-26T22:08:43.829-07:00erik: well, I guess I am one of "you people....erik: well, I guess I am one of "you people." My suggestions were made because a poster seemed concerned that maybe her complaint was never reported, and never dealt with. This seems like a legitimate thing to wonder, as King seems to think he had never been given any reason to be concerned about the IA before the incident(s) that C2 raised -- part of the reason, I assume, he felt free to blow it off on the grounds that he assumed it was probably racially motivated. <br /><br />Second, why do YOU keep bringing up "molestation." That was never claimed by those who raised the incident. They merely thought the things they were observing were potentially inappropriate, and grounds for further training. "Molestation" is a "straw man" argument here. <br /><br />Finally, you ask "Do really think that the district would leave him in place after the investigation?" In a word, yes.<br /><br />Unreasonable? Well, the District was happy to leave Potter in a position to steal funds from the District after an investigation showing that he had mismanaged a District program (and funds) in the Sutor report. All it appears to take is "protection" from on high. Potter had Stephens. The IA appears to have King. That said, I don't think this person is "molesting" kids -- those were your words. My only point is that I take no comfort in investigative reports, if District management has decided to look the other way.<br /><br />BraessaeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60760427725372733742012-03-26T21:10:56.658-07:002012-03-26T21:10:56.658-07:00Why do you people keep talking about this. The dis...Why do you people keep talking about this. The district has investigated the Ia and found his behavior to be appropriate. You can want to believe that he is being left there to molest your kids. Do really think that the district would leave him in place after the investigation. Reeriknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10192016675572403472012-03-26T20:10:36.166-07:002012-03-26T20:10:36.166-07:00Braessae,
That seems like a reasonable course of...Braessae, <br /><br />That seems like a reasonable course of action. In future, however, parents should know to contact the Office of Professional Practices if they are not satisfied with the actions of the district.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.k12.wa.us/ProfPractices/customerservice.aspx" rel="nofollow">How to File a Complaint Against a Teacher/Certificated Educator</a><br /><br />Document as best you can and/or get others to corroborate your version of events.SeattleSpedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13705544363458155912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72338146952050065642012-03-26T18:56:17.605-07:002012-03-26T18:56:17.605-07:00Former Lowell Parent: here is what I would do. I...Former Lowell Parent: here is what I would do. I would:<br /><br />1. Contact Noel Treat and/or Mr. Apostle in the GC's office, and ask, as the complainant with respect to the incident, for some follow-up with respect to the incident that you reported. While I don't know exactly how much information you are entitled to (in terms of exactly what happened to the IA who you reported on), I think you are at least entitled to know whether the complaint was lodged and whether some kind of action was taken (that could be -- we interviewed the kids, decided they were lying or overstating, and did nothing; we interviewed the kids and the IA, decided that there were two sides to the story, and did nothing; we interviewed the kids and the IA and have taken what believe to be appropriate follow-up action --training, admonishment, etc. -- with the IA) -- but I think you deserve to know whether the report was ever taken seriously, and whether this incident did, in fact, get reported to HR, and whether any further training was ever instituted with the IA. Or were you just "blown off?" The reason I don't think King gets the benefit of the doubt here is that my impression from the report was that he was taking the position that there was no reason to believe that there might be any judgment lapses, inappropriate conduct, etc. by the IA. From your post, this is clearly NOT the case. <br /><br />The reason this particularly bothers me is that it is the same "blindness" pattern that seemed to occur with Fred Stephens and Silas Potter -- where there were clearly problems with aspects of Potter's work, from the Sutor report -- and yet Stephens willfully remained "blind" to them -- and then claimed in the end that he was as shocked as anyone else when other bad stuff happened later. <br /><br />2. Contact the ethics hotline AND the ombudsman, and report to both of them that you would like some confirmation that your report to Mr. King was, in fact, submitted to and recorded by HR -- and that while maybe you don't get to know the details of the follow up, that you want confirmation that what King told you -- that he had made the report AND taken follow-up training action -- is in fact true. I think you deserve to know that the process was actually followed, even if you don't get the details. <br /><br />3. IF the District can't give you any confirmation that your incidence report was appropriately followed up on, I would contact the ST reporter who did the article (sorry, his name eludes me) and at least suggest to him that someone may need to follow up on the larger issue of whether there was systematic failure by Lowell administrators to follow reporting/training procedures. <br /><br />And be glad your child is out of the school.<br /><br />BraessaeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69030403673612801762012-03-26T14:59:47.906-07:002012-03-26T14:59:47.906-07:00My child also voiced complaints about the lunchroo...My child also voiced complaints about the lunchroom monitor...belittling students, using the microphone for entertainment instead of announcements...it was the end of the year and we didn't report it, but now I'm wondering if we should have...is that person still at Lowell?<br /><br />also former parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90220479589568255892012-03-26T14:41:48.042-07:002012-03-26T14:41:48.042-07:00Thank you for the clarification, Former Lowell Par...Thank you for the clarification, Former Lowell Parent. I wonder too if there are any written records, though I am not sure how to go about asking for them. Perhaps someone else on this blog does?<br /><br />Even if the aide was given additional training at that point, I would very likely still be uncomfortable with him being around my own 5th grade daughter. He should have known from the get-go not to hug girls at the urging of their classmates, training or no. I would also expect my school principal to be keeping a close eye on him after hearing of such an incident. If this is indeed the same aide, then that adds a troubling twist to this story, IMHO.TraceySnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89525043542899594972012-03-26T14:31:31.954-07:002012-03-26T14:31:31.954-07:00Questions to Rina:
Shall we just move on like noth...Questions to Rina:<br />Shall we just move on like nothing happened? Could you do that if your daughter had been involved in a same or similar situation?<br />How can we move on as you requested before you address the issues that were raised in the report?<br />Isn't this letter a little too late? <br />Don't we, parents deserve an explanations and / or least an apology more than this plain and simple letter?<br />How can we trust you with our students when you stated a year ago that you don't feel comfortable to deal with a child related issue blaming your inexperience? What happened since than? Do you feel comfortable with the same issue now? Wonder why?<br />And so on...<br />- ConcernedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65853471665592993522012-03-26T14:29:00.827-07:002012-03-26T14:29:00.827-07:00Former Lowell Parent here: At the time I felt tha...Former Lowell Parent here: At the time I felt that Mr. King addressed my report of what I heard from my daughter about the lunch room quickly and seriously. I have no records, but I wonder if there are any records anywhere. I remember when the Broadview-Thompson incident was being discussed that part of the problem was that teacher records get purged each year unless some special flag happens somehow. I don't know if the lunch room monitor aid is the same one alleged to have foot touching or not. It seems a strong possiblity that it is the same person. The future roles of King, Rina, and the aid in the schools is an open question. I now realize that I should get a trail of correspondence with SPS and the board. I am unclear about who at SPS to contact. <br /><br />Former Lowell ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7728400089261388102012-03-26T14:25:46.972-07:002012-03-26T14:25:46.972-07:00Here's the part I don't like.
From page 5...Here's the part I don't like.<br /><br />From page 5 of the second report:<br /><br />"Meanwhile, also on April 15, C1 filed an ethics complaint through the ethics hotline, alleging the investigation into her and C2's actions was retaliatory.<br /><br />"On April 19, CA2, E5, E6, CA1, and King met to discuss issues at Lowell, including C2's resignation and C1's ethics complaint."<br /><br />The details of an ethics complaint made to the ethics hotline - including the name of the person who made it - was revealed within four days.<br /><br />Is that some kind of record for breaches of confidentiality?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61786086606044219542012-03-26T14:18:33.522-07:002012-03-26T14:18:33.522-07:00I am very interested in erik's interpretation ...I am very interested in erik's interpretation of the investigator's report as described in a comment made on 3/26/12 at 7:35am.<br /><br />According to erik, the first that either Mr. King or Ms Geoghagan heard about any inappropriate behavior was January 19 when C2 reported it to Ms Geoghagan. According to Erik's reading, Ms Geoghagan took immediate action to investigate and found the account completely without merit.<br /><br />They didn't hear anything more until weeks later when the nurse made a report to District headquarters. The District headquarters person calls Mr. King and Ms Geoghagan in for a meeting. They both deny receiving any previous report of any inappropriate behavior and, as they should, begin an investigation into C1 and C2's failure to report.<br /><br />Sorry, erik, but I can go with that narrative.<br /><br />If C2 reported to Ms Geoghagan, as you say, then why would Ms Geoghagan investigate C2 for failure to report?<br /><br />The District official who came to Lowell and spoke with C1 and C2 in February told them that they had fulfilled their reporting obligations. Why do you dispute that interpretation? Are you in a more expert position than the person who conducted the investigation?<br /><br />How could Mr. King or Ms Geoghagan agree to an investigation into whether C1 and C2 failed to report when Mr. King and Ms Geoghagan knew that there had been an investigation in response to their reports?<br /><br />Sorry, erik, but that narrative doesn't work.<br /><br />Yes, it is true that C1 did not make a report of foot-kissing to building administrators promptly in January. The report was made instead to District headquarters in February, and the district official said that met the reporting requirement.<br /><br />Help me to understand your perspective, erik. Mr. King and Ms Geoghagan launched an investigation into C2's failure to report despite the fact that C2 HAD reported to Ms Geoghagan and she had told Mr. King about it. How is that okay?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35482374596471512282012-03-26T13:55:26.418-07:002012-03-26T13:55:26.418-07:00As the parent of a fifth grade girl (not at Lowell...As the parent of a fifth grade girl (not at Lowell), I would be deeply troubled to hear that any adult staff member was hugging her at school. Not only is uninvited close physical contact not ok in my book, but the bullying/harrassing aspect of the fifth grade boys successfully egging on an adult to hug their female classmates adds an especially ugly feel to the matter. I would be outraged to hear that a principal heard of such an incident and did nothing. <br /><br />I wonder if there is any email or documentation of the incident that you know of, Former Lowell Parent.TraceySnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12318621386314028212012-03-26T12:49:17.410-07:002012-03-26T12:49:17.410-07:00"Please understand that I have always and wil..."Please understand that I have always and will continue to have your children's best interest at heart. As a mother and principal, there is NOTHING I take more seriously than the well-being of children."<br /><br />This is all good and well but where is her promise to follow the training and protocol in the future that she has been given?Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38620876069412763192012-03-26T12:39:10.455-07:002012-03-26T12:39:10.455-07:00Just thought I'd note that in the 2010-2011 sc...Just thought I'd note that in the 2010-2011 school year principal evaluations, only 1 principal was rated unsatisfactory. 91 satisfactory, 1 unsatisfactory. Seems impossible.Kate Martinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81596646744208167392012-03-26T12:32:13.464-07:002012-03-26T12:32:13.464-07:00Okay, Former Lowell Parent, that is just plain dis...Okay, Former Lowell Parent, that is just plain disturbing in so many ways. Did King have another noncredible moment? Yeah, I'd like to know whether that incident was, in fact, investigated BEYOND King's "interviews".mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20193441401955030592012-03-26T12:08:26.999-07:002012-03-26T12:08:26.999-07:00Rina Geoghagan just sent an e-mail to the Lowell@L...Rina Geoghagan just sent an e-mail to the Lowell@Lincoln family distribution list:<br /><br />Dear Lowell @ Lincoln Families,<br /> <br />This weekend the Seattle Times released an article regarding an administration issue that occurred last year at Lowell on Capitol Hill.<br /> <br />Please understand that I have always and will continue to have your children's best interest at heart. As a mother and principal, there is NOTHING I take more seriously than the well-being of children.<br /> <br />I ask for your support so we can move forward with the excellent teaching and learning community that we built this year at Lincoln.<br /> <br />Thank you,<br /> <br />Rina Geoghagan<br /><br /><br />-- EbenezerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76432637729494942522012-03-26T11:46:15.524-07:002012-03-26T11:46:15.524-07:00Although I have debated writing about this on this...Although I have debated writing about this on this blog, I have received no response from SPS so I will add to Melissa's statement above that the same idividual had some inappropriate touching in the lunch room. Here's my story:<br />In the spring of 2010 I overheard my daughter and her friend talking about how lunch was "weird" that day. I asked why and they said that the lunch room monitor was being taunted by 5th grade boys to hug 5th grade girls, and that he was hugging students. I asked who the monitor was and was told that he was a young man who was an aid in one of the special ed classes. The next day I called Mr. King and reported what the girls told me. He called back 2 days later and said that he had interviewed my daughter and her friend and other witnesses and the aid in question. He said that he couldn't disclose more because of confidentiality but that he had reported the situation to HR and that he would institute some education for the staff. <br />When Melissa hinted in Feb. that the investigation of King involved a special ed aid, I called SPS to contact the investigation. I routed around to a few offices where someone took a brief statement and my contact info. No one ever called me back. <br />When I read of the report here, I asked my daughter if the aid was non-caucasion, and she said, yes, he was non-caucasion. <br />That's why I find this report shocking. I can't believe that King wouldn't be a high alert to address any allegations about inappropriate touching.<br /><br />Former Lowell parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91758573592273129712012-03-26T11:22:50.173-07:002012-03-26T11:22:50.173-07:00SPS parent, No school employee should be kissing a...SPS parent, No school employee should be kissing any part of any student's body, and it damn well should be reported and investigated any time it happens.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16260807460417787614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13000178077961455652012-03-26T11:14:21.476-07:002012-03-26T11:14:21.476-07:00OK. So, maybe he WAS SUPPOSED to follow some other...<i>OK. So, maybe he WAS SUPPOSED to follow some other protocol. But, maybe he just thought that the whole thing amounted to nothing at all. And, he was right about that.</i><br /><br />No actually, he wasn't. There is a pretty clear protocol here that Mr. King does not get to sidestep, just because he feels like it - nor does any other principal/teacher/administrator - yes, maybe this was a relatively minor problem that could have easily been corrected. But, try to see the big picture here, SPS parent (and Erik). It's about innuendo and retaliation and attempting to shirk responsiblity because it's just tooo hard [insert whiny tone here].<br /><br />I do NOT want any adult kissing the feet of my kid - no matter how seemingly harmless that action might be (and to me it's not in the slightest bit harmless). Because as Helen so eloquently states, it can still be damaging.Someonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45044375676657787922012-03-26T10:22:53.942-07:002012-03-26T10:22:53.942-07:00Reposting as the italics don't seem to be show...Reposting as the italics don't seem to be showing up and I want to be clear about which bit I'm quoting:<br /><br />To SPS Parent: did you see Dorothy's points on the other thread?<br /><br />---<br /><em>"Whether or not this fellow had bad intentions, the damage is twofold. One is that it would allow a culture where someone like Hill who was grooming children for abuse to thrive. Second teaches by example that such affection at school is normal, which can thwart any teaching at home about proper touching and thus confuse children and perhaps make them more susceptible to predatory behavior later."</em><br />---<br /><br />I was a kid who experienced several incidents of confusing unwanted touching from a couple of different teachers and a doctor. I am strongly in favor of it being normal to report even incidents that may be minor, so that well-meaning people have the opportunity to adjust their behavior to be more professional, and a track record of possibly inappropriate behavior exists for those who turn out to be predatory. That goes double or triple for anyone who works with an especially vulnerable population.<br /><br />This isn't a case where any decent person will automatically do the right thing by a child, thus anyone who doesn't is automatically a terrible pedophile and must be fired instantly. It's entirely possible for a well-meaning person to touch a child inappropriately, AND THAT CAN STILL BE HARMFUL, REGARDLESS OF INTENT.<br /><br />There's no reason for every incident of this type to be a high-pressure thing with accusations flying. The very fact that this became one after entirely appropriate reporting is a huge red flag to me of a dysfunctional culture at the school. True professionals take such incidents as a chance to learn and grow. I hope other principals in the system are taking the opportunity to have talks with their staff members about better ways to handle such problems.<br /><br />Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.com