tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post4347105853766643252..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Letter to Seattle Schools Principals from Superintendent BandaMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50444848840041477752014-06-10T20:04:05.774-07:002014-06-10T20:04:05.774-07:00Seriously? Every family in my neighborhood with el...Seriously? Every family in my neighborhood with elementary age kids in public school either attends a school with a waiver, teaches their kids after school, or pays a tutor. <br /><br />How's EDM doing for families who can't do those things? Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4069925910868430902014-06-10T19:03:02.932-07:002014-06-10T19:03:02.932-07:00@Listening
Apologies if I have appeared to be ign...@Listening<br /><br />Apologies if I have appeared to be ignoring your enquiries. I did respond, but, probably due to inattention on my part, they disappeared into the cloud.<br /><br />It's not possible to compare the success rates of Envision v MIF/Singapore here in Seattle just yet, and I think it will be difficult for a while as there are so many variables. I can only say that Seattle students made gains using the constructivist EDM (look at SWK's comments on other threads if you are still following) and overall Seattle students beat the state averages. In 2013 (Seattle Times, June 10 2013) SPS "increased its lead in nearly all grades, especially eight grade math and sixth grade reading."<br />The children in these grades are the ones who have had the immersion in EDM. By the macro data it's a success, validated by reporting in the mainstream media and not just in an obscure statistical archive. Many of the claims on this blog of EDM failing the students are false, and in some cases deliberately so, as there is little excuse for those who are vested enough in the issue to be unaware of what the local news sources are reporting. In addition these gains took place in the throes of a recession, which make them even more of a success, as the impact of economic stagnation on many students cannot be discounted.<br />Now we are adopting less progressive materials, which require less teacher classroom preparation, allow for less student creativity, with little room for different methodologies, points of view etc. In addition to the thinness of the scheme, which I fear will limit children's creative mathematical impulses, we may find that it will also limit their teacher's. Constructivist math pushes teachers to think and teach differently.I believe that impacts all aspects of their teaching. Teachers who were less comfortable with this, can now go back to the same old, same old. This is another regressive aspect of choosing MIF.<br /><br />For progressAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62386577824611192862014-06-10T14:50:00.631-07:002014-06-10T14:50:00.631-07:00For progress --
I am sorry, but this is starting ...For progress --<br /><br />I am sorry, but this is starting to get plain silly -- like throwing spaghetti against the wall to see what sticks.<br /><br />1. "Why in another thread does Melissa say the survey questions aren't suitable for lay-people and then support lay people over-ruling the MAC with their own selection?<br /><br />What does the appropriateness of survey questions sent to parents on math curricula have to do with the ability of the School Board (many of whom are NOT lay people, and ALL of whom are expressly tasked with the responsibility of MAKING a decision -- which might mean adopting, or not adopting, the MAC committee's recommendation) have to do with each other. The false equivalences here are mind boggling.<br /><br />2. "Also, Singapore is far from a panacea. By middle school 40% of Singapore students have a math tutor (American average is 10% and that's probably distorted by private school figures) and 90% are engaged in out of school math activities, including math olympiad and robotics. (See The Raytheon Study) Clearly intensive supplementation and cultural preferencing have a lot to do with their world math ranking, in addition to universal health care and lack of poverty."<br /><br />Singapore, like many Asian cultures, has a very different approach to educational competition than US schools. But how that sheds light on whether they have developed a good math curriculum is a mystery to me. You seem to be arguing that their test scores may reflect much more than whether the Singapore materials are good. And I suppose it does. Just like SSD math test scores are skewed by all the parents who home school after school with better materials, drive their kids to KUMON, hire tutors, etc. But that still doesn't speak to whether the materials are great or not. It seems to me that a "math-mad" nation like Singapore with really high stakes exams would be very likely to demand, at a minimum, that the stuff their kids get from school is top notch as well. <br /><br />3. You said "Selecting a math adoption that bi-passes a language/literacy component deprives our ELL students of the opportunity of greater literacy enrichment.It is a travesty that these children and, in fact all the children, will now have math that lacks an integrated language component." I have never seen anything, not a drop or shred of evidence, suggesting that language challenged kids (ELL but also many Sped kids with language processing issues) learn language any faster when their math classes are turned into language classes as well. Frankly, this argument is so lame I cannot believe that you make it seriously. A "travesty" that a 2E kid with language problems is prevented from excelling in math (which he is great at), because he has trouble communicating in English? Wrong. Just wrong.<br /><br />JanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34147614925361005312014-06-10T14:35:18.250-07:002014-06-10T14:35:18.250-07:00"They don't have staff, they don't ha..."They don't have staff, they don't have meetings, there are no minutes, no paper trail."<br /><br />Lois, you are mistaken. The Curriculum and Instruction Committee has public meetings and minutes. You can file a request for a log of meetings directors attend and who they meet with. You can file a request to look at e-mails.<br /><br />For progress, you seem to think that saying that a survey uses a lot of ed-lingo means I think parents are dumb. It doesn't. It means, though, that not all parents are up-to-speed (hence our acronyms guide or is that insulting). <br /><br />Parents are the experts on how their children are doing in school. They are entitled to give their opinion based on that issue alone. Some may have expert backgrounds even if NOT on the Committee. <br /><br />FYI, the WASL was terrible precisely because the math part was more about reading than writing (my own kids said this the one time they each took it).<br /><br />No one has said - anywhere - that ANY math curriculum is a panacea. It's just a choice based on what is best for our district and that choice - for the last time - is legally in the hands of the Board.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-44146840738392720162014-06-10T14:20:23.967-07:002014-06-10T14:20:23.967-07:00Does NOT require that they be grade level proficie...Does NOT require that they be grade level proficient I language skills in order to progress. Sorry.<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11831425594441601692014-06-10T14:19:20.889-07:002014-06-10T14:19:20.889-07:00It does not deprive ELL students of greater litera...It does not deprive ELL students of greater literacy achievement. It just does require that they be grade level proficient in language skills in order to progress with math skills. Requiring grade level skills in all subjects in order to progress in all other subjects is a horrible trap to set for struggling students. I can't imagine we'd ever add math skill requirements to trip up language arts progress like this. Some of those kids might be (are certainly!) quite talented in math and would be able to experience some academic success if they could only have access to a curriculum which allowed them to make single domain progress as easily as possible while they caught up in reading. Instead we insist they fail in every subject until they can bootstrap their way up, and then have to catch up in math, too?<br /><br />I don't think Envision is a terrible curriculum. I think MiF is better, but not that Envision is terrible. But I can never get on board with adding extra literacy skill requirements onto math students beyond the necessary.<br /><br />-sleeperSleepernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-154852701075786532014-06-10T12:46:25.767-07:002014-06-10T12:46:25.767-07:00For progress,
Your argument about wordy math curr...For progress,<br /><br />Your argument about wordy math curriculum helping with literacy is odd. Reading MAP scores in Seattle should be off the charts after all these years of EDM. What? They're not?<br /><br />People really need to stop talking about the board overriding the MAC. This MAC was there to advise, NOT DECIDE. It has been said over and over, but it is not being understood. <br /><br />Admittedly, if I disagreed with the decision I would likely be frustrated, but it is the process. I have been on the other side many times over the years, but it has not made me unable to understand the process. <br /><br />-pickleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68655097618528176432014-06-10T12:43:44.561-07:002014-06-10T12:43:44.561-07:00@ For Progress
When you say Singapore is not a pa...@ For Progress<br /><br />When you say Singapore is not a panacea, can you cite EVIDENCE (I keep asking you) for the comparative performance of Singapore vs. Envision vs. Others. Where is you data? Please share so we can have an informed constructive conversation. You say that kids are not prepared and then draw a causal link to Singapore. Please share the links to your data to substantiate. Otherwise it's not productive. Listeningnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7119436627042178982014-06-10T12:05:21.363-07:002014-06-10T12:05:21.363-07:00@Hippy and Lois
Good comments.
Why in another t...@Hippy and Lois<br /><br />Good comments. <br /><br />Why in another thread does Melissa say the survey questions aren't suitable for lay-people and then support lay people over-ruling the MAC with their own selection?<br /><br />Also, Singapore is far from a panacea. By middle school 40% of Singapore students have a math tutor (American average is 10% and that's probably distorted by private school figures) and 90% are engaged in out of school math activities, including math olympiad and robotics. (See The Raytheon Study) Clearly intensive supplementation and cultural preferencing have a lot to do with their world math ranking, in addition to universal health care and lack of poverty.<br /><br />Selecting a math adoption that bi-passes a language/literacy component deprives our ELL students of the opportunity of greater literacy enrichment.It is a travesty that these children and, in fact all the children, will now have math that lacks an integrated language component. <br /><br />For progressAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13014833581520860792014-06-10T11:34:50.102-07:002014-06-10T11:34:50.102-07:00@whoknows - Actually though, families with childre...@whoknows - Actually though, families with children present have a national median income of only $59,000. That would probably be a better figure to use in a survey of parents.Ragweedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491896585801927302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65068326439394486092014-06-10T11:26:53.227-07:002014-06-10T11:26:53.227-07:00hippy et al.
I just don't buy this defense of...hippy et al.<br /><br />I just don't buy this defense of Everyday Math. My kids are at a school where differentiation, critical thinking, and social justice are part of the founding core values. Where we consider every child to be gifted - because each has unique gifts that we must find and nurture. <br /><br />I have been talking with our elementary teachers and our MS math teacher. They generally agree that it take both basic-skills and inquiry-based approaches, and some use an inquiry-based approach exstensively, depending on the needs of the students (as I said - lots of experience with differentiation). <br /><br />And as a rule they all hate EDM. Even if you support an inquiry-based approach, Everyday Mathmatics is poorly written and confusing. It bounces around with this so-called "spiral method" that is so poorly structured that it does not actually reinforce past skills. Its questions are poorly written and poorly designed.<br /><br />If you believe that an inquiry-based approach provides a deeper level of understanding, or allows for greater differentiation, or whatever - by all means do so. But EDM is just a bad example of an inquiry-based approach. There is nothing progressive about it. Ragweedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491896585801927302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35057367374473623902014-06-10T11:15:35.509-07:002014-06-10T11:15:35.509-07:00Whoknows -
The survey uses 65,000 because that i...Whoknows - <br /><br />The survey uses 65,000 because that is the median family income for urban families. It is not the median household income, because household income includes many households that are not "families"; "family" being defined as two or more people living in the same house, related by birth, marriage, or adoption. Household income includes lots of single people, wheras family income includes lots of 2-income families, which moves the median up.<br /><br /><br /><br />Ragweedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491896585801927302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77256143397167213472014-06-10T09:54:14.434-07:002014-06-10T09:54:14.434-07:00What's the point of having a MAC if the direc...What's the point of having a MAC if the directors do their own assessment? They don't have staff, they don't have meetings, there are no minutes, no paper trail. How much and what does any particular director look at? Who do they consult? Are they in any way required or expected to their own research?<br />LoisAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15406965118917186922014-06-10T09:38:18.143-07:002014-06-10T09:38:18.143-07:00@ Michael:
Maybe it would be good if you got the f...@ Michael:<br />Maybe it would be good if you got the facts instead of spreading rumors about why RJ (not BJ) is leaving NB for BVT (not BWT).<br />Broadview has a lot of really great things going on, strong staff, lots of innovation and services for a high need population. I know it's off the main topic, but I couldn't let that comment go by and not respond. I teach at BVT and I love it. You should come visit some time.<br />BVT teacherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53991988523788056562014-06-10T09:15:57.486-07:002014-06-10T09:15:57.486-07:00@Counselor: Do you too need to be reminded what &...@Counselor: Do you too need to be reminded what "recommend" means? <br /><br />WSDWGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-51247284732201581762014-06-10T09:05:28.142-07:002014-06-10T09:05:28.142-07:00@Teacher: Thank you so much for your "testim...@Teacher: Thank you so much for your "testimony" of sorts, about how things really are. I've seen many teachers transfer, be let go, or driven out by good and bad principals, because they bucked a system, plan, or bad idea, instead of going with the flow. I know retribution is real in SPS, because I've seen it happen numerous times. <br /><br />Some here just can't believe the discrimination and retribution against not just whistle-blowers, but anyone who questions power-tripping principals with their HUGE inferiority complexes. <br /><br />I urge you to tell other teachers to comment here with their stories, without revealing identities, just so people can understand the kind of real "arm twisting" teachers are put under everyday, which comes from the district and is passed through the principals. <br /><br />Thanks again for speaking up.<br /><br />WSDWGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70324480579931423972014-06-10T08:30:13.888-07:002014-06-10T08:30:13.888-07:00I'm the parent rep on our school's BLT.
O...I'm the parent rep on our school's BLT.<br /><br />Our process was a bit different from "Teacher's."<br /><br />Our BLT met yesterday morning, before school. It was not a regularly-scheduled meeting. We were tasked with making a math materials recommendation. Our choices were Math in Focus or enVision.<br /><br />Our BLT recommended Math in Focus. I haven't heard the outcome of yesterday afternoon's staff meeting, but I am hopeful that we will not be applying for a waiver. <br /><br />At our BLT meeting, there was discussion about the process, that this wasn't a normal waiver process, that there hadn't been significant community input, and that the waiver issue had not come from anyone (staff, parents, etc...) from within the school itself.<br /><br />There was also discussions around how the Board voted in a sole-adoption, not a dual adoption, so why were we called here to make a recommendation?<br /><br />There was also a discussion about the costs, should we decide to jump on the waiver. Our PTA should not be put in a position where it is expected to cover the cost of instructional materials if the waiver is not fully-funded (our principal did not have concrete information about the funding of the waiver).<br /><br />Math in Focus was recommended because we thought it was the best fit for our school. <br /><br />We have ELL and a relatively-high FRL. We are not a technology-rich school, so the less-wordy Math in Focus is a good fit. There also were concerns expressed that our school, and our families, did not have the tech resources to support enVision.<br /><br />- name withheldAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71212305473117275092014-06-10T08:08:34.345-07:002014-06-10T08:08:34.345-07:00I'm having a hard time understanding the misin...I'm having a hard time understanding the misinformation about MIF and CCSS alignment. It's especially hard to understand in light of EDM and CMP's poor coverage of current state standards. Where was the outrage when "mathematically unsound" texts were adopted for high school?<br /><br />MIF will provide a solid math foundation. Both MIF and Envision made the list of approved math texts for the State of California, and they had a much more robust review process than SPS. None of the current SPS math programs are on the recent list of adopted texts in CA - no EDM, no CMP, and no Discovering Algebra. <br /><br />According to the <a href="http://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/ma/im/documents/mathadoptionrpt2014.pdf" rel="nofollow">2014 CA Math Adoption Report</a>, "the criteria included a requirement that the instructional materials provide comprehensive teaching of the content standards [including the Standards of Mathematical Practice]." The standards needed to be met in "the core materials or via the primary means of instruction, rather than in ancillary components."<br /><br />Who is instilling this CCSS fear? If anything, you should be concerned for students' performance on upcoming CCSS assessments because they've been using EDM and CMP all these years. <br /><br />-happywithMIFAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40845214410451925812014-06-10T07:55:52.524-07:002014-06-10T07:55:52.524-07:00Look Hippy, of course a Board member wasn't on...Look Hippy, of course a Board member wasn't on MAC. That would be improper. But she and McLaren did their homework and there is not a single member of the Board who would disagree.<br /><br /> "I mean if you can explain a math problem, you have pretty good literacy skills."<br /><br />But is that the point of learning math? What about ELL students? What about Betty Patu's moving testimony about her own struggle to learn math as she was learning English?<br /><br />Counselor, are you sure that the make-up of the committee was done equitably? I'm not. It's a good thing when democracy follows its course.<br /><br />For the last time, the Board is the legal and final voice. Don't like that for curriculum? Change the law. Don't like the Board members? Run other people for office.<br /><br />Also for the last time, do you know how many committee recommendations have been ignored by Boards and staff? A lot. This is nothing new. And the Board did not "throw" anything "overboard." They got valuable feedback on all of the top three finishers via the Committee's work.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16584127867841129002014-06-10T06:53:06.602-07:002014-06-10T06:53:06.602-07:00I want to understand how the Board making a decisi...I want to understand how the Board making a decision against the recommendation provided through an equitable process is a good thing? There is no explanation in the Super's letter to Principals as to why the recommendation was thrown overboard. I'm flummoxed as the Staff at my school overwhelmingly voted to go with envision after reviewing curriculum options. Are someone's pockets being lined... Or is it just a matter of inflated ego - a power trip? Don't put forth a legitimate process only to ignore the results. Ridiculous. The district leaders sing a song of equity, while ignoring the voices of those who actually do the work creating equitable schools that are successful. Counselornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28636037854202497562014-06-10T06:49:33.838-07:002014-06-10T06:49:33.838-07:00Of course I'm afraid of retribution. No, I wo...Of course I'm afraid of retribution. No, I won't even tell you what region I teach in and the principal of our building is actually a "she" not a "he", that's how much I am not able to speak freely against my boss' wishes. But look at it this way, she is being coerced, too. She obviously had a directive to get some form of dissent from us. How ironic, the ones actually responsible to teach the math and this is the only time we are asked directly which curriculum we feel is the best support for our teaching. Why are teachers so little involved in this whole process? I'm the one who has to use the curriculum daily. I do want to thank the active community who brought the Board to their senses in picking MIF. I don't know what hippy is talking about--MIF is a much different curriculum than EnVision. It has much more depth, is so much more conceptual, scaffolds extremely well. EnVision does not scaffold and not conceptual enough. The reason our staff so strongly supported MIF is because they have either used it or seen it used. It is a curriculum that believes strongyl in equity for all children in class-it teaches to mastery (there, said the M word, get over it) because math is the one subject (research backs me on this) that keeps students from graduating. We have a right to ensure that all children (low-income, esp.) have equal access to education, equal access to success. This is not ancient Greece, math understanding should not be for an elite few. All children should have mastery and it is actually one subject where this is possible. It is so very teach-able given the right curriculum. EDM was a nightmare to teach and I could tell you so many stories of so many tears cried by 8 year olds in class who came to me with their hopes and beliefs only to have them dashed on the rock of "Imstupid". We need MIF--it lifts children up to not just an understanding of math but a belief in themselvs. It is by far the most equitable curriculum. Hippy, you need to look deeper--what idiocy you've just spouted. Just on another note, a teacher in our building was a little too open about her opinions about our principal and she no longer teaches--she was "let go". This has nothing to do with cowardice on my part--retribution in Seattle SD is very real.Teachernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68972611864952561822014-06-10T06:16:29.250-07:002014-06-10T06:16:29.250-07:00There are surveys making the rounds right now - ve...There are surveys making the rounds right now - very suspicious surveys that ask families to rank their priorities for math textbooks. The surveys are written in a way that allows the results to be interpreted however the principal chooses.<br /><br />So, no matter how you answer, your answer will be interpreted as support for the principal's favored materials.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19494404436042491922014-06-09T23:51:47.904-07:002014-06-09T23:51:47.904-07:00Hippy: You got me trippin!
My mind is a teeter-to...Hippy: You got me trippin!<br /><br />My mind is a teeter-totter inside a kaleidoscope riding on a ferris wheel right now. Is that The Doors I hear in the background? <br /><br />That is one big ball of string you've got going there. <br /><br />WSDWG<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78768362822248926622014-06-09T23:42:32.124-07:002014-06-09T23:42:32.124-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84383460443596445042014-06-09T23:39:32.505-07:002014-06-09T23:39:32.505-07:00@hippy
"But when they hear about fractions a...@hippy<br /><br />"But when they hear about fractions and why you flip one over to divide them…"<br /><br />I think you mean, find the reciprocal of the divisor. You can't "flip" the 3 in 5/7 divided by 3. It doesn't flip. That is not standard mathematical language. And, you certainly would not want a student to flip the dividend (7/5).<br /><br />That little Singapore Math lesson takes less than a half-page of examples to teach. No parlor tricks, just math.<br /><br />South EnderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com