tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post4408856211699405951..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Update from the Stranger Slog on the Mudede IncidentMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger84125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59101061559126080072010-06-10T12:38:15.048-07:002010-06-10T12:38:15.048-07:00I've been thinking about this and I think I se...I've been thinking about this and I think I see the misunderstanding.<br /><br />Everything about us is soaked in culture. Everything we say, do, eat, wear, or think is, to some extent, culturally driven.<br /><br />So if someone has a negative reaction to something about us, to what extent do we perceive that as a reaction to us as an individual and to what extent do we perceive it as a reaction to our culture.<br /><br />For example, if someone says that they don't like the smell of a curry to what extent should this comment be seen as culturally insensitive to all south Asians?<br /><br />Mr. Mudede's complaint about the lack of cultural sensitivity was based in the fact that the teacher had an allergic reaction to a product that is specifically intended for Black hair. He interpreted her reaction to the product as a reaction to Black hair and, more broadly, to Black people.<br /><br />I'm not seeing it.<br /><br />Just cuz ya don't like bagels doesn't make you an anti-Semite. And an allergic reaction to a chemical doesn't make someone a racist.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64080179882375071942010-06-08T20:32:18.969-07:002010-06-08T20:32:18.969-07:00All I have seen is the letter from the principal s...All I have seen is the letter from the principal sent in kid mail for the families with children in this classroom.<br /><br />I don't know if the family is aware of teacher's absence for the remainder of the year.Toscahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17050190764379431632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91542374510641978372010-06-08T20:08:28.870-07:002010-06-08T20:08:28.870-07:00Interesting. Was there an official statement or j...Interesting. Was there an official statement or just something shared with the families of the teacher's students?ArchStantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10746480698492983438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54606112313413246052010-06-08T19:55:30.343-07:002010-06-08T19:55:30.343-07:00Does that mean the student will come back now?Does that mean the student will come back now?Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18365355509420961754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23666599014730914562010-06-08T19:10:26.920-07:002010-06-08T19:10:26.920-07:00Today we learned that the teacher in question will...Today we learned that the teacher in question will be on medical leave for the remainder of the year.Toscahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17050190764379431632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19732280562268413342010-06-08T14:42:55.496-07:002010-06-08T14:42:55.496-07:00Sarover sez:
"Hi, I'm Sarovar, and I'...Sarover sez:<br /><br /><i>"Hi, I'm Sarovar, and I'm a racist in India, but I'm only bigoted and prejudiced in the United States of America."</i><br /><br />Oh, now, don't sell yourself short.<br /><br />This thread has lost its way: too much hatin' going on, when the fact is, nobody, NOBODY, on this blog knows exactly what happened. The whole thing has been Rashomon-ed to death. Can we just leave it alone until something actually happens involving the case?<br /><br />As for me, I'm out.Josh Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17242600011474990770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61613240544166953572010-06-08T12:15:55.081-07:002010-06-08T12:15:55.081-07:00Perhaps because our alternatives are formed of suc...Perhaps because our alternatives are formed of such tenets as "democratic classroom," and "alternative forms of assessment," they are benig removed rather than supported.<br /><br />The sorts of charters we're talking about when we talk charter these days are those that are responsible merely to the standardized tests, and are not organically and locally grown, like our alternatives, but are experiments run by ed management companies.<br /><br />Our alternatives are a road block to the charter and reform movement: Schools like NOVA show what can be done without standardizing, without common curriculums, without uniforms.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75126156371410319962010-06-08T11:38:49.725-07:002010-06-08T11:38:49.725-07:00SPSNorth, that is one of the things I find most ir...<b>SPSNorth</b>, that is one of the things I find most ironic about MG-J's apparent agenda: If her goal really is to introduce charter schools to Seattle, she would have done well to strengthen and co-opt the alternative schools to create obvious landing spots for the charters. Instead, she is on her way to turning them all into cookie cutter neighborhood schools full of staff and families who will push back against innovation. Meanwhile Seattlites who are most open to innovation and building based management are being dispersed. <br /><br />I don't know if she has just chosen to remain ignorant about what the alts are and could be or if she has a very restricted view of what charters can be. (I.e., firms that make a profit off of struggling learners vs. innovative community run schools that could act as laboratories for best practices.). Maybe both.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61534063944816702922010-06-08T07:39:12.375-07:002010-06-08T07:39:12.375-07:00wsseadauw said "the idea that some schools th...wsseadauw said "the idea that some schools that can operate being accountable only to the population within them is an attractive idea. But that's, in Seattle, what our alternative schools do a great job of already, "<br /><br />Don't you mean that's what our SPS alt schools used to do? I think this was the case pre-MGJ. But now we have standardization, standardization, and did I say standardization. We have Everyday math, Writers workshop, every school starting at the same time, limited transportation (less diversity), no say in the hiring of the principal, MAP tests for all.......must I go on?seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66862518537624104082010-06-08T00:26:39.665-07:002010-06-08T00:26:39.665-07:00"Hi, I'm Sarovar, and I'm a racist in..."Hi, I'm Sarovar, and I'm a racist in India, but I'm only bigoted and prejudiced in the United States of America."Radioactive Beasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05574425091631308504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35515908526991410832010-06-07T21:17:49.181-07:002010-06-07T21:17:49.181-07:00Working Together: You'll probably get hammere...Working Together: You'll probably get hammered for mentioning Charters, because so many of them are corporate profit and propaganda machines disguised as schools. But that doesn't mean some aren't good, and/or that there aren't lessons to be learned from them - Good and Bad!<br /><br />When you're able to separate the politics and ulterior motives of so many charter supporters from the basic design or idea (which is tough), the idea that some schools that can operate being accountable only to the population within them is an attractive idea. But that's, in Seattle, what our alternative schools do a great job of already, without competing with other schools for resources, without busting unions, and without elbowing the local community and parents out of the way with the well heeled corporatists and philanthropists' (yeah, right) money behind them. <br /><br />The recurring problem with Charters is their lack of transparency, high attrition rates, and overall failure to improve the educations of many at-risk kids, despite having far more resources than the average public school, and tons of sponsors as well. <br /><br />They deserve the be looked at and considered on their merits and shortcomings, but the current administration, along with the prior one, sold people a bill of goods on how great they were, and would be, but the returns have come in, and overall, Charters have been a disappointment and a waste of money. Geoffrey Canada is terrific, but spends over 30k per student. <br /><br />Imagine what kind of system we'd have, or anyone would have, with that kind of money. But it's not sustainable.wseadawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750439461734046035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35543077908210080972010-06-07T21:16:27.127-07:002010-06-07T21:16:27.127-07:00It seems that the debate is whether racism is some...It seems that the debate is whether racism is something you can commit by having a limited amount of knowledge about another race. <br /><br />It also seems that there is an assumption that everyone from the same race will have a common experience, upon which we can base assumptions about what one should know, to avoid showing racism. <br /><br />I did not know the hair care requirements of an African American girl's hair. (Interestingly I have lived among African women who shave their hair very close to their heads & then cover their heads. They would find uncovered heads offensive. So I am not sure whether hair care is a cultural or a racial attribute.) <br /><br />How much knowledge of other races should you have so that you are not racist. Would that knowledge include cultural & religious variations within the same race. So should you know racial or cultural sensitivities of African children as well as African American children? What about those specific to Muslim Africans vs African Jehovah's Witnesses? Would it be racist to use US/African history to decide how to interact with a Haitian American? Or would it be racist not to?<br /><br /> Is it possible to have enough knowledge of the racial experience of each person you come in contact with, to be able to predict what will trigger hurt or bad memories?<br /><br />Should you be able to make those predictions just by looking at that person? <br /><br />Perhaps that is the expectation. But I hope that if I make a racist transgression through ignorance, that the person I hurt would be willing to tell me about their experience & their feelings, so that I could heal that relationship & go better informed into a diverse world.old salthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07971380233996439817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69396655851199512342010-06-07T16:46:11.209-07:002010-06-07T16:46:11.209-07:00Here's the other thing I think is REALLY STUPI...Here's the other thing I think is REALLY STUPID about that "academic" definition of "racism": it falls totally apart in a logical sense when it is applied other countries other than the United States.<br /><br />For instance, in my parents' original home of India, there is a strong cultural racism of just about every group. North Indians (lighter skinned mostly) are terribly racist towards the usually darker skinned South Indians. AND then there is the racism from South Indians towards North Indians! Amazing how that works, isn't it?<br /><br />SO according to your "academic definition" of "racism", it is technically impossible for me (a so-called "person of color") to be "racist", UNLESS I AM IN INDIA.<br /><br />To take the point further, and risk invoking "Godwin's Law", the logical conclusion is that it was impossible for a Jewish person to be "racist" in Nazi Germany, since they did not hold any "state power" or "institutional power", BUT as soon as the State of Israel was created, then the same Jewish person who was not "racist" can immigrate from Nazi Germany to Israel, and magically be transformed into a "Racist" through the agency of "state power", simply because they crossed an international border.<br /><br />Don't you see how totally illogical your redefinition of "racism" is?Radioactive Beasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05574425091631308504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17555042890725274592010-06-07T16:24:19.511-07:002010-06-07T16:24:19.511-07:00SC, I'll go with the definition from my dictio...SC, I'll go with the definition from my dictionary I read long ago. Racism is believing one race is superior or inferior to another. <br /><br />Combine it with whatever you want, but I think that about nails it.wseadawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750439461734046035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42541549524421613072010-06-07T16:05:57.709-07:002010-06-07T16:05:57.709-07:00OT but I've been thinking about charter school...OT but I've been thinking about charter schools, particularly Geoffrey Canada's Promise Schools, and wondering if Melissa or Charlie we can have a discussion on them on a new thread? I know some people are against them and I'd like to hear more about why, as recent research looks like charters are linked with some real gains. If we have so many concerns about this district's governance, is it time to back nonprofit charters being allowed in Washington(perhaps narrowly craft a law so for-profit corporations cannot do charters, just non-profits).Working Togetherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15050560153921290344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22274634489417685252010-06-07T16:01:52.045-07:002010-06-07T16:01:52.045-07:00I will write it again since it got deleted for wha...I will write it again since it got deleted for whatever reason (probably it struck too close to home for some of you):<br /><br />The black man who attacked me while shouting racist epithets while stabbing me did not need any institutional power or state power in order to "qualify" as being "racist" instead of "bigoted" or "prejudiced".<br /><br />He did not "pre-judge" me, he attacked me and nearly killed my by stabbing me. <br /><br />He did not need any "power" other than the power he already had - the power of using his knife to stab me while he shouted racist insults at me.<br /><br />I have now destroyed the validity that Orwellian NewSpeak DoubleThink "academic" ivory-tower namby-pamby re-definition (which doesn't even appear in any dictionary) of the word "racism" using only logic and facts.<br /><br />Why is it so hard for you white liberals to call other races out on their obvious racism? Don't you realize how ridiculous it makes you seem?Radioactive Beasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05574425091631308504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54953780550722123932010-06-07T15:52:35.222-07:002010-06-07T15:52:35.222-07:00none1111 -
Please tell me where I "made up&qu...none1111 -<br />Please tell me where I "made up" a definition of racism. I'm stating my ideas, not quote oxford. Please show me this supposed definition I "made up."<br /><br />Charlie,<br />I reacted differently to this quote Helen copied<br />"Accusations of racism are emotionally charged. It is a dreadful label to apply to anyone and all thinking, caring people - not just guilty white liberals - are horrified by it."<br /><br />To me, this statement hints at not bringing up possible racist things because we are "horrified..by this dreadul label." It hints at sublimating the thought when ew have a question: "Is what you (he, her...) did racist?" To me, that's a dangerous thing, worrying too much about horrifying someone with the accusation. Not that we should throw it around, but the emotional charge the accusation carries shouldn't keep us from bringing it up.<br /><br />Getting past the emotional charge is always difficult, and I hope I can make that step sometimes.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8872714526136507462010-06-07T15:37:40.881-07:002010-06-07T15:37:40.881-07:00Accusations of racism are emotionally charged. It ...<em>Accusations of racism are emotionally charged. It is a dreadful label to apply to anyone and all thinking, caring people - not just guilty white liberals - are horrified by it.</em><br /><br />Charlie, that attitude right there is PART OF THE PROBLEM. If you think of racism solely as a dreadful thing that dreadful people do, then you'll never get rid of it, because everyone will be more concerned about not being labeled a racist than about not doing anything racist. Choosing to call one level of problem merely "thoughtless ethnocentrism" masks its connection with a broader culture in which racism is widely tolerated. <br /><br /><em>seattle citizen has meanings for the words "prejudice" and "racism" that work in the context of academia but are markedly different from the meanings of the words when used in ordinary daily life.</em><br /><br />seattle citizen is using a distinction (between prejudice and prejudice + power) that has been around for a good thirty-five years and is part of the fabric of a lot of people's thought in ordinary daily life. I'm surprised more people aren't aware of it. It seems to me to be as basic a concept as, say, "conspicuous consumption" (which also started out as something an academic said about ordinary life).<br /><br />Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26484134871573724082010-06-07T14:46:03.650-07:002010-06-07T14:46:03.650-07:00emeraldkity:
Sorry I misread your post. It did s...emeraldkity: <br />Sorry I misread your post. It did sound out of character for you, but it really didn't read as tongue in cheek to me either.<br /><br />You can always go old-school with emoticons. ;-)<br />:-)<br />:-OAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37558845079551842712010-06-07T14:42:40.252-07:002010-06-07T14:42:40.252-07:00SeaCit, I was going to reply to some of the specif...SeaCit, I was going to reply to some of the specifics, like making up your own definitions of culturally-charged words, but honestly, Charlie and wseadawg already did a better job than I would have. Thanks guys.<br /><br />I hope Mr. Mudede puts his thinking cap back on soon and puts his daughter back in class (without the in-hair product!). The longer she's out, the longer she suffers. It doesn't sound like the kids paid much attention to the situation until dad started yelling "fire!" out to the world. Now she and the teacher are both suffering needlessly. To bad they didn't use common sense to come talk with the teacher directly before lawyering-up. What a mess.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53685174743408892872010-06-07T14:40:13.695-07:002010-06-07T14:40:13.695-07:00wseadawg, I'm confused about why you think my ...wseadawg, I'm confused about why you think my definition of racism (and it's certainly not the only one) is "tortured."<br /><br />Why would be definition NOT include Italians, Poles and others "ground under the heel of upper classes?"<br /><br />Why is it apologist to try and figure out the roots and branches of such a thing as racism? Why does it foment the guilt etc?<br /><br />I'm confused: You agree that there is institutional racism and yet my definition is an apologistic, tortured one? I'm missing something.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71963119941507307492010-06-07T14:38:06.898-07:002010-06-07T14:38:06.898-07:00OT but there's no current, active thread to pu...OT but there's no current, active thread to put this on...<br /><br /><a href="http://www.petitiononline.com/S3B62010/petition.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.petitiononline.com/S3B62010/petition.html</a><br /><br /><br />go here and sign… its a start in turning SPS around… first the Superintendent (tho why we’re not demanding she be fired I dont know), then remove the rubber stampers on the Board, to be replaced by people who aren’t owned by the corporate players, people who know what they’re doing educationally and managerially… who know our kids are not mass-produced widgets or numbers, or faceless inanimate pieces on a chess board, to be moved around willy-nilly …<br /><br />Staff at four Seattle schools have already voted ‘no confidence’ in Maria Goodloe-Johnson and we expect other schools to follow suit… <br /><br />A group of parents (representing the various interest groups/communities in SPS and calling ourselves the Seattle Shadow School Board/Seattle Education 2010) are circulating this petition, with a view to presenting it to the Board at its meeting on June 16th; we’re also planning a rally before that meeting…<br /><br />If you want to know more/be involved, call me on 206 679 1738….Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18299646182151974942010-06-07T14:21:06.981-07:002010-06-07T14:21:06.981-07:00Having said all that, what you're primarily ta...Having said all that, what you're primarily talking about is compliant, tacit and/or institutional racism. <br /><br />Maybe the district's protocols and response smack of that, but it all started with the encounter in the classroom between an incompatible hair product (not a person, not a kid..), but a hair product the kid was wearing and a teacher's hyper-sensitive olfactory processes. <br /><br />Yes. It was that simple.wseadawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750439461734046035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73105796367826798042010-06-07T14:13:54.791-07:002010-06-07T14:13:54.791-07:00SC, I normally agree with you, but on this one, I ...SC, I normally agree with you, but on this one, I agree with Sarovar and Sahila. Your definition is the cobbed together, apologist version of racism academics have ground through their sausage-maker for decades to justify their dissertations (I suppose). But your definition will never fly with Italians, Irish, Polish, or many other non-white groups who got the same heel from the upper classes jammed in their faces while they struggled to survive. Yes, slavery was state sanctioned, I get that. And was racism (and ignorance) behind it all? Absolutely. Will that likely remain America's greatest shame for centuries yet to come? Probably. <br /><br />But the definition you employ is tortured and forms the well from which much confusion, white guilt, and the notion that "blacks can never be racist" comes from. Malarkey. <br /><br />Tell that to the West Seattle kid who was beaten, urinated on, burned with cigarettes and had a knife put to his throat last weekend, while being held captive and tortured for 4 hours while being called "white boy" told his torture was because of his (16 year old, remember) "enslaving their people." <br /><br />Sorry, but this is the stupidity and brutality that springs from such definitions that seek to shift all blame away from personal accountability and blame the supposedly "powerful" for their own face being punched and teeth knocked out ostensibly for being white and mistreating somebody's great grandfather. Sorry, but it doesn't fly. <br /><br />On the other hand, it sends a dangerous message, if not a license, for one group to mistreat another brutally to avenge perceived historic sleights. We don't have to look far to see this play out. See most of Africa and the Middle East, along with the the Balkans, Georgia, Chechnya and the list goes on and on. <br /><br />Charlie's right: You just have to be an asshole to be racist, not any particular color. And it's a personal trait or position. No state has anything to do with it. <br /><br />Don't let people off so easy.wseadawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750439461734046035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18071960497422929192010-06-07T13:32:15.036-07:002010-06-07T13:32:15.036-07:00none1111- I can't post emoticons on this blog-...none1111- I can't post emoticons on this blog- but it was Tongue in cheek!<br /><br />I was being facetious- to make a point- which some apparently missed.<br /><br /><br /><br />I <i> very concerned</i> about the way the district/parents are notified not only about sexual offenders in the neighborhoods, but in the buildings.<br /><br />Safety has to come first- if students are not safe- they cannot learn.Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.com