tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post4543971967365679736..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: HIgh Schools and GrowthMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13219641372560865162013-09-30T12:58:14.907-07:002013-09-30T12:58:14.907-07:00RBHS and WSHS are not at capacity. The other high ...RBHS and WSHS are not at capacity. The other high schools are - and they will all be very soon. Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22645248131414293612013-09-30T12:17:02.009-07:002013-09-30T12:17:02.009-07:00I am confused. I thought Rainier Beach was only a...I am confused. I thought Rainier Beach was only at 400 students in a building that could hold many more so how could it be at capacity? Or are these projected numbers as the boundaries are redrawn?<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8664866194542762732013-09-29T15:29:12.602-07:002013-09-29T15:29:12.602-07:00Banda came from a district that did staggered sche...Banda came from a district that did staggered schedules for years, AND year-round school. There ARE alternatives. People will squawk but what can you do?mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50688066707909398982013-09-29T14:34:15.211-07:002013-09-29T14:34:15.211-07:00Compelling, good thoughts.
Believe me, I rarely, ...Compelling, good thoughts.<br /><br />Believe me, I rarely, if ever, hear any parents asking for 6-12. My belief is that Denny/Sealth was ALL the district. <br /><br />Yes, the Cedar Park/OH/JA K-8 is a mess and I believe it will end up being a sad mistake. <br /><br />Flexible - now and in the future, IS the key.<br /><br />Split shifts? It could happen.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14697337662578879492013-09-29T12:03:28.829-07:002013-09-29T12:03:28.829-07:00Lincoln as a high school is challenging because th...Lincoln as a high school is challenging because there are no fields, and there can't be, the property is tiny, and all there is is a parking lot. On the other hand, Wilson Pacific is 16 acres of property ready for redevelopment. Put a middle school on one end, and on the opposite end, put a big high school, and in between, a gigantic turf field, to accommodate all of the sports the students will play and satisfy the community's need for feilds for little league, soccer, football, etc.<br /><br />Lincoln can be used as the 1-5 or 1-8 APP school, and its South wing could be used as the interim space for future Bex cycles. Not perfect, but, this district is far past perfect solutions for everybody.<br /><br />APP has already been in the Lincoln building going on three years now, so while it may not be perfect, they made it work. And if it was permanent, adding an appropriate playspace will be workable.<br /><br />There was much about this BEX plan that was added at the last minute, specifically the Pinehurst building and the Cedarpark building. Given that they had to push out the K-8 from the Jane Addams campus, it would have been more sensible to give them the bigger space at Olympic Hills (6.5 acres), and made Pinehurst the new attendance area k-5 (on 3 acres). And, it would have been much more appropriate to plan Cedar Park with a wing, instead of eight portables, especially since there are only 11 home rooms in the building itself. Where's the equity in that? Fairmount Park is being re-opened, but with the wing, not eight portables.<br /><br />I don't think shared campuses work. I don't think they're ideal, I think schools want and need their own separate identities, but still, does seem to make more sense to put the high school at wilson pacific. A middle school still must built there as well.<br /><br />So if this idea has legs, please, oh please, don't say 6–12 campus, say a middle school, and a high school. Pushing them together will mean this district will lose flexibility to program these buildings in an infinitely wide variety of ways in the decades to come. We need generic, flexible buildings: smooshing buildings together deprives us all of that flexibility to roll with the punches as the future unfolds.<br /><br />-compelling ideas<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35890103715464183152013-09-29T11:47:19.125-07:002013-09-29T11:47:19.125-07:00zb, I think the solution the district currently is...zb, I think the solution the district currently is planning is lots and lots of portables, maybe 50-60 of them added across the high schools, enough to hold perhaps 2,000 or more additional high school students.<br /><br />But they haven't talked about that much. I (and probably they) have no idea how many portables they will add, whether there is space for those portables at the schools, whether there are enough restrooms and other facilities inside for those additional students, and how much more that will cost long-term than actual buildings (new buildings tend to cost more short-term, but less long-term, than portables, so portables only make sense if the enrollment increase is temporary).<br /><br />Anyone have any more information?Jonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85944633178018879622013-09-29T10:38:13.879-07:002013-09-29T10:38:13.879-07:00Gosh, this discussion is scaring me. I looked at t...Gosh, this discussion is scaring me. I looked at the projection numbers and the waiting lists and am thinking that where once upon a time the issue was that the kids weren't distributed int he available schools (so some were overcrowded while others were underenrolled), it now appears that every school is full and some are bursting and it's only going to get worse. <br /><br />I honestly don't see any solutions (though mind you, I accept that I might have a limited imagination on this issue) and the discussion in these comments seriously sounds like rearranging deck chairs on the . . . .<br /><br />What about swing shifts? Are they a plausible solution for HS? I imagine that I'd rather see my kids going to school 8-1 & 1-6 (or whatever makes sense) than navigating a physical space/sharing classrooms/resources with kids way above capacity. In my imagination, that would mean running two schools in the same building, though, not scrimping (i.e. double the number of teachers, classes, activities). <br /><br />zbAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35290935357417109412013-09-28T15:57:40.478-07:002013-09-28T15:57:40.478-07:00I stand corrected (I thought it was in its last st...I stand corrected (I thought it was in its last stages).<br /><br />Franklin USED to be the go-to school for QA/Magnolia until Ballard got its rebuild/reputation upgrade. <br /><br />Yes, that shuttered Magnolia elementary may need to be pressed into service and Blaine converted. There's one solution.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54682641986481819632013-09-28T14:33:46.977-07:002013-09-28T14:33:46.977-07:00Magnolia does have the shuttered magnolia school o...Magnolia does have the shuttered magnolia school on 28th which used to house AAA and Coe (had Coe students while the school was rebuilt after a fire). Is it possible to convert that to ES again and convert Blaine K-8 to a 6-12? Otherwise, it would be supremely ironic to contemplate Franklin for QA/Mag/downtown due to capacity after the long tortuous court case to get Ballard for this cluster. <br /><br />MagpieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9570681430875452712013-09-28T14:03:15.051-07:002013-09-28T14:03:15.051-07:00A very minor comment, Melissa. You keep saying th...A very minor comment, Melissa. You keep saying that Franklin WILL have light rail, but it has had it already for at least 4 years.LGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11805460941535289584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43721181283193437592013-09-28T13:03:13.150-07:002013-09-28T13:03:13.150-07:00So the irony is that once again, the problem boils...So the irony is that once again, the problem boils down to Queen Anne High School. <br /><br />The lack of a high school for downtown and Queen Anne went to the supreme court and now all these years later, the capacity pressures are still kind of there. <br /><br />kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5820977436620947952013-09-28T12:19:09.342-07:002013-09-28T12:19:09.342-07:00I'd rather we spend $1M on a 100 yr boiler tha...I'd rather we spend $1M on a 100 yr boiler than for 3 triple-wide portables for a few years... Whoever made that bone-head call had better be somewhere else doing something else.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20395808326705928622013-09-28T10:28:04.548-07:002013-09-28T10:28:04.548-07:00TS, unlikely they can do that.
Here's where ...TS, unlikely they can do that. <br /><br />Here's where it got left (last time I checked which was recently):<br />The district owns 9 acres at Seattle Center (and did BEFORE it was Seattle Center). That's the land Memorial sits on and the parking lot. <br /><br />The City had wanted to do a trade for 4-5 acres. The district HAS to have Memorial for a variety of uses but if the City wants to partner to make it a nicer and more year-round used facility, fine. The trade was for some parking garage on Mercer and THAT could be where a high school could be built.<br /><br />But I was told that was now off the table and I was also told that the district (read: Ron English) is dragging its feet on talking. People should be pushing the district hard on this issue. <br /><br />TS, to my mind, one of the longest ongoing facilities mistakes this district has made is to NOT address this issue. I have no idea why Board directors from that area did not put their foot down long ago and get that done. <br /><br />Kellie, sound reasoning.<br /><br />I note that the boiler at the Mann building, when Meng went through about 7 years ago, noted that it was 100 years old ("and it still works!") But it was also noted that it should be replaced.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13710669136001051542013-09-27T23:24:19.678-07:002013-09-27T23:24:19.678-07:00I agree that the Denny / Sealth thing was ill conc...I agree that the Denny / Sealth thing was ill conceived and executed for the wrong reasons. If memory serves the driver of that decision was so that the two schools could share a $1 Million boiler, rather than have one of these boiler at each location. <br /><br />My limited understanding is that these heating systems last for a 100 years so they are big work horses and for some reason drove a ton of facilities decisions. John Marshall was closed primarily because they didn't want to replace the boiler (they needed to replace it anyway).<br /><br />The Wilson Pacific campus is different. There is currently a middle school built on the campus and the plan is to build a separate elementary school because of the capacity crunch and that is where the district has some empty space. <br /><br />The difference is that the district has already committed to two buildings on that property so the question would be does a middle and high school make better sense on one property than an elementary and middle school. <br /><br />Typically we have a model for elementary and middle school students to share so there is some standards. However, the campus is being planned for 2,000 or more students, so I think it is an interesting question as to whether or not you want the little kids on such a big campus or bigger kids. kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47634784083200507122013-09-27T21:41:57.105-07:002013-09-27T21:41:57.105-07:00TS,
2 things come to mind. Again, hate to mentio...TS,<br /><br />2 things come to mind. Again, hate to mention it but I AM reading a book about WWII and I have a renewed appreciation for those who gave their lives in that horrible war.<br /><br />Second, new high schools cost about $100M.<br />mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57917189334290664472013-09-27T20:03:25.715-07:002013-09-27T20:03:25.715-07:00Thanks, Lynn, those are useful links. Looks like I...Thanks, Lynn, those are useful links. Looks like I was wrong and all the high schools are full, including Rainier Beach. So new capacity will entirely be portables and the new Lincoln HS, I guess.Jonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91887276064418734202013-09-27T19:50:23.059-07:002013-09-27T19:50:23.059-07:00QA and Magnolia are going to need a high school, t...QA and Magnolia are going to need a high school, there is no way around it. The Enrollment Projections are low, even the "high" projections are already being surpassed. Couldn't they build a comprehensive high school on the Memorial Stadium land? <br />TSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86947641427207068242013-09-27T16:20:11.566-07:002013-09-27T16:20:11.566-07:00FacilitiesMasterPlan
High School Capacity on page...<a href="http://www.seattleschools.org/modules/groups/homepagefiles/cms/1583136/File/Departmental%20Content/school%20board/11-12%20agendas/021512agenda/20120215_FacilitiesMasterPlan.pdf" rel="nofollow">FacilitiesMasterPlan</a><br /> High School Capacity on page 5-5<br /><br /><a href="http://www.seattleschools.org/modules/groups/homepagefiles/cms/1583136/File/Departmental%20Content/enrollment%20planning/10%20year%20resident%20enrollment%20projections.pdf?sessionid=4ecb3371068caf4dda8f2574e27109f1" rel="nofollow">EnrollmentProjections</a><br /><br />High School numbers at the end<br /><br />Lynn<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49583654715787619692013-09-27T16:10:02.430-07:002013-09-27T16:10:02.430-07:00Lincoln is not a "bad" site but problema...Lincoln is not a "bad" site but problematic. One, it needs extensive renovation. Two, virtually no outside area (but there could be some created). Three, pretty close to Roosevelt and W=P might make better sense for that issue.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23959783134516225282013-09-27T16:02:54.742-07:002013-09-27T16:02:54.742-07:00WSDWG,
Agreed. I remember when there was talk of...WSDWG,<br /><br />Agreed. I remember when there was talk of closing Roxhill and expanding WS Elem I asked about the Denny meadow. Pegi McElvoy told Director McLaren that it was "too small" for an elementary. Fortunately, I quickly found the design charette records that showed it was sized for a 450 seat K-5. Facts are only necessary when they serve your purposes, I guess....mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-44296597102039700982013-09-27T15:39:05.864-07:002013-09-27T15:39:05.864-07:00Jon: I have to laugh as I was wondering the same ...Jon: I have to laugh as I was wondering the same thing: What happened to the infamous "functional capacity" numbers where staff walked the buildings and adjusted their numbers (A feat that cannot be replicated in neighborhoods, apparently, when drawing boundaries, but I digress...) back in '08?<br /><br />As an impacted veteran of prior closures and splits, I asked those at my table if anyone knew where the "functional capacity" numbers were, and they all looked at me with contorted "huh?" faces. <br /><br />WSDWGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33253863633570481392013-09-27T15:38:49.746-07:002013-09-27T15:38:49.746-07:00Jon: I have to laugh as I was wondering the same ...Jon: I have to laugh as I was wondering the same thing: What happened to the infamous "functional capacity" numbers where staff walked the buildings and adjusted their numbers (A feat that cannot be replicated in neighborhoods, apparently, when drawing boundaries, but I digress...) back in '08?<br /><br />As an impacted veteran of prior closures and splits, I asked those at my table if anyone knew where the "functional capacity" numbers were, and they all looked at me with contorted "huh?" faces. <br /><br />WSDWG Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5229225380785398522013-09-27T15:33:31.258-07:002013-09-27T15:33:31.258-07:00mirmac1: I thought the co-location was a bad idea ...mirmac1: I thought the co-location was a bad idea from the start. People were, and still are, high on the idea. But it made little sense from a planning perspective, considering the foreseeable lack of middle school space and especially High School space that was going to be needed in the future as WS rapidly grows. They used up almost all the space at Denny/Sealth, so expansion would be really tough now on that site. And aren't they holding the former Denny site open to build an elementary on, for Roxhill & Westwood kids. I believe that's the official plan on the books now. <br /><br />WSDWGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35441179968439854252013-09-27T15:33:25.787-07:002013-09-27T15:33:25.787-07:00Where are the functional capacity and current enro...Where are the functional capacity and current enrollment numbers for high schools? I don't see them in any of the recent presentations.<br /><br />My understanding is about every high school is full to capacity except for Rainier Beach. Is that correct? And Rainier Beach and the new Lincoln HS, along with a few new portables, couldn't take the projected demand? Or they could?<br /><br />Hard to know without the numbers. Anyone know where they are?Jonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56280298669394478102013-09-27T15:28:36.465-07:002013-09-27T15:28:36.465-07:00Is WP where the growth is needed for high school? ...Is WP where the growth is needed for high school? Why is Lincoln a bad site for a high school?<br /><br />Boutique schools cost more per student than big schools--that has been the district's rationale for closing smaller and under enrolled schools over the years. I don't see the district going for the boutique school idea. Unless powerful people push the idea, like the downtown association.<br /><br />If high school capacity is about to be a mess, how big of a mess is it about to be, in comparison with the mess that middle school and elementary capacity will be in 3 years?<br /><br />QAE ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com