tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post4830880174415297335..comments2024-03-18T16:51:10.406-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Friday Open ThreadMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30903289585294548862012-04-17T19:22:37.775-07:002012-04-17T19:22:37.775-07:00I found the current Science curriculum too limitin...I found the current Science curriculum too limiting in what I was allowed to expose my students to. I was allowed to have children only learn what was in our kits, what we could test in our classroom. That meant that there were about sixteen lessons, that had a limited amount of equipment, that would not cost very much. Most principles about science were "off limits" because it was not testable from our school's budget. Students were not really allowed to learn what was not in our kits, which meant most of the principles of science were "off limits." Concepts about the stars and solar system, molecules, etc. were off limits. Almost all of what is currently understood about science was "off limits." While students in other countries can learn about the findings of science, our students are not supposed to be instructed on those things in any way. <br /><br /> We are way too one sided in our approach. When a teacher can only teach what is in their kits, their students have very little to learn. On pretests, my students already knew most of what the kit was supposed to teach. It seems like teachers are not allowed to expose their students to basic scientific knowledge. Even though I like the kits, and my students enjoy their assignments, I find the current approach to be limiting in allowing students to learn as much as they should know by the time they leave elementary school.<br /><br />Teachers actually get repremanded if they expose their students to information that is not in their kits. I would like the freedom to include some of both types of instruction. I believe that my students would be interested in learning more scientific content than we can afford to replicate in the classroom.<br /><br />Seattle teacherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52562538974276700012012-04-15T21:28:24.358-07:002012-04-15T21:28:24.358-07:00Interesting summary -
"But giving kids cookb...Interesting summary -<br /><br />"But giving kids cookbook assignments, which is what you advocate, "<br /><br />Did I "advocate" to give kids cookbook assignments? No, I don't see where I did. I KNOW that giving them lots and lots of drill on "testable questions" doesn't do a thing to motivate students. It doesn't teach observation skills, it doesn't prime interest, it doesn't teach them about any scienctific area. It is ineffective and boring. Foremost, science is about observation and curiousity. Funny that the district moves towards "inquiry" in other areas... but where it matters the most, arugably "science", it is stuck on "theory of science"... rather than anyting resembling inquiry.<br /><br />parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77759519213949821882012-04-15T01:01:25.710-07:002012-04-15T01:01:25.710-07:00Frustrated up North, somebody is going to ride a b...Frustrated up North, somebody is going to ride a bus to Wallingford.<br /><br />Either it will be the middle school students from the new Olympic Hills service area or it will be the K-8 students from Jane Addams. But either way, one of those two populations will be riding a bus to Wallingford until the Olympic Hills building is ready.<br /><br />Making Jane Addams a middle school doesn't take anyone off the bus, it just changes who is on it.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62573354442291495902012-04-14T23:36:33.524-07:002012-04-14T23:36:33.524-07:00Yes, when Roosevelt and later Garfield were at Lin...Yes, when Roosevelt and later Garfield were at Lincoln, <br />that park also could not be used during the day. No real explanation was given besides the fact that there was some sort of agreement preventing it. I wonder if this agreement existed *before* Lincoln closed as a high school.<br /><br />--Old School MusicAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43582819380187912312012-04-14T21:14:36.529-07:002012-04-14T21:14:36.529-07:00I liked the science units in first grade. They in...I liked the science units in first grade. They include organisms, weather and balls and ramps. My fave was balls and ramps. It is the most hands-on and open ended once the controlled trials are over.<br /><br />The organisms unit is a good one but time consumptive and often with poor live materials. And you're basically supposed to kill it all when you're done. I've done K, too. The snails are also not environmentally appropriate and they, too, are supposed to be killed after the unit. I don't know any teacher than kills them. They send them home with families who eventually put them out into the environment. <br /><br />I know. . . they shouldn't. But they do. I took them one year from a K teacher after I'd moved on and up and gave them to a parent who promised to freeze them. I could not do it. When I taught first grade, I kept those darn mealworms alive for almost a year. I never did know what to do with them and they kept hatching.<br /><br />I'm just not a killer.<br /><br />n...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37482771197601643162012-04-14T18:15:57.888-07:002012-04-14T18:15:57.888-07:00Melissa,
Sorry if I wasn't clear. At the Eck...Melissa, <br />Sorry if I wasn't clear. At the Eckstein meeting, Peggy M said that they knew the were going to need middle school capacity prior to the 2019 opening of the OH middle school, and the plan was to start putting kids from the designated OH feeder pattern at an interim site prior to the opening of the OH middle school. I don't think she said just during construction.<br /><br /> If the interim housing is for only a couple of years, beginning in 2017, that's not horrible. If they are planning to start interim housing in 2013 or even 2015, in order to deal with capacity issues, then it's a different can of worms entirely. <br /><br />-frustrated up northAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14611429575697661342012-04-14T18:01:16.964-07:002012-04-14T18:01:16.964-07:00Parent:
It sounds like your kid was in 1st grade?...Parent:<br /><br />It sounds like your kid was in 1st grade? In the first grade organisms kit they make terrariums--but they also involve moss and a tree seedling and observing them grow (on top of putting sow bugs in there and watching what happens). If all your kid got was dead bugs in a terrarium then...their teacher didn't actually do the unit (it also involves observing seeds, planting seeds in different conditions, observing woodland vs water animals...)<br /><br />In my experience, the science lessons all have open ended questions to explore that are not even really testable (I have experience at 1st...with questions like "What can we observe inside a seed?"). <br /><br /><br />-STAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78512928817057427612012-04-14T17:43:41.193-07:002012-04-14T17:43:41.193-07:00Frustrated, I'm not sure what you are asking.
...Frustrated, I'm not sure what you are asking.<br /><br />Why would OH students remain in an interim location after construction is completed?Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14790395722643234932012-04-14T15:59:16.772-07:002012-04-14T15:59:16.772-07:00Melissa,
Are you sure that the kids slated for OH ...Melissa,<br />Are you sure that the kids slated for OH middle school would be in interim housing only during construction? I got the impression from the response to questions at the Eckstein meeting that they planned to house the kids in the future OH feeder pattern at an interim location, in order to solve capacity issues at Eckstein, not just during the construction of the middle school. Did you hear otherwise?<br /><br />-Frustrated up NorthAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68826765248310906802012-04-14T15:15:41.692-07:002012-04-14T15:15:41.692-07:00Hmmm... I had written a comment further up in this...Hmmm... I had written a comment further up in this stream that I had forgotten to sign, then tried to sign it with a subsequent post, but my comment was deleted anyway. <br /><br />What I had written was a little bit of the history of middle school assignments at the north end of the Eckstein service area.<br /><br />Before the NSAP, Eckstein there was a circle around the Eckstein service area. If you fit in that circle, you got in. If you didn't, you got bused to Hamilton. Summit was in the JA building then. The solution for the lack of capacity at Eckstein was to bus kids from the Lake City neighborhoods to Wallingford for middle school, past both the JA and Eckstein buildings.<br /><br />Then came the NSAP, and the promise of a seat at Eckstein and room at a "mushroom-model" K-8 at Jane Addams to handle the middle school overflow.<br /><br />Now, Eckstein is severely overcrowded, and the elementary population of JA is huge, leaving very few, if any, middle school seats for kids entering at 6th grade beyond the next year or two.<br /><br />The current proposal, to once again bus our kids to Wallingford, and house them at an interim site, while a middle school building in our neighborhood, the Jane Addams building) is used to house mostly elementary students, is a slap in the face of every attendance school family in the area. <br /><br />Build a new K-8 at Olympic Hills for the Jane Addams K-8 community, and repurpose the JA building as a middle school. The result would be a vibrant K-8 community at OH, and a successful middle school for the north end.<br /><br />Signed - Frustrated Up NorthAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32917319299655237372012-04-14T15:14:04.405-07:002012-04-14T15:14:04.405-07:00No, the OH middle school is slated to be built in ...No, the OH middle school is slated to be built in 2019. I suspect their population would go to John Marshall during construction.<br /><br />As I said, they would have already created a population for W-P middle school so that would already take some of the strain off Eckstein/Whitman until the OH middle school is ready.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66842981686142160082012-04-14T14:55:03.919-07:002012-04-14T14:55:03.919-07:00Parent--
I'm not saying that the kits are gre...Parent--<br /><br />I'm not saying that the kits are great. They're not. But giving kids cookbook assignments, which is what you advocate, doesn't teach kids how to do science. They should be coming up with the questions and trying to answer them.Interesting summarynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77641763206253485672012-04-14T14:35:56.922-07:002012-04-14T14:35:56.922-07:00I'm not sure your point, interesting-summary....I'm not sure your point, interesting-summary. And we're all so glad somebody really knows what "real science is." What kids do now - is endless drills on "testable questions". What they should be doing is observing things in the natural world, reading and learning about those observations. You can actually GIVE the kids the testable question, or tell them what's supposed to happen (and see if it actually does happen) - and still do a whole lot of "science". They will learn how to formulate testable questions when they are ready and INTERESTED. Science shouldn't be about "what science really is." By turning the whole thing into a big bore - you don't learn more science, or more anything. The inquiry based science kits are also terrible. Inquiry is a good things - but the kits don't promote it. My kid's class got a bunch of packages of dead bugs from which they were supposed to make terrariums. That pretty much shot the whole unit - and nobody learned anything. I never saw one that was worth anything. There was one about identifying rocks and minerals. OK. But why use a kit for that?<br /><br />parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1913341384129284492012-04-14T14:26:39.320-07:002012-04-14T14:26:39.320-07:00I guess we could always teach "creationism&qu...I guess we could always teach "creationism". That's testable.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41595784332277531512012-04-14T13:56:10.653-07:002012-04-14T13:56:10.653-07:00Jr. college--
You don't seem to understand wh...Jr. college--<br /><br />You don't seem to understand what science is. Are you saying that the top scientific journal are confused about science? As a scientific researcher, what I do all day is use research to try to answer a question. If you don't understand the basics of experimental design, you can easily be swept up by pseudoscience. Science is not just puttering around; puttering around is only science if you are trying to answer a testable question.An interesting summary from Sciencenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71016047510667107562012-04-14T12:05:12.851-07:002012-04-14T12:05:12.851-07:00Interesting article in real change about a transit...Interesting article in real change about a transit survey conducted by south seattle middle school and high school students. <br /><br /><a href="http://www.realchangenews.org/index.php/site/archives/6447/" rel="nofollow">http://www.realchangenews.org/index.php/site/archives/6447/</a><br /><br />Wholeheartedly agree with their recommendations to SPS and Metro which include making it easier for kids and families to deal with ORCA issues. The only current option - getting to their downtown office, M-F, 9-5.GreyWatchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15177134279070087546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-400211159409372852012-04-14T11:20:10.834-07:002012-04-14T11:20:10.834-07:00Melissa,
You said that the plan is for WP to open ...Melissa,<br />You said that the plan is for WP to open at John Marshall in 2014, moving into the WP building by 2016 (the spreadsheet says 2017). What about the OH middle school? When and where will that population be housed prior to 2018 or2019, when the building is slated to open?<br /><br />Charle said there was no urgency to open the OH middle school. I guess from the District's point of view there isn't, if all those kids are designated for an interim assignment until the building is ready.<br />-Frustrated up NorthAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46986587520300899862012-04-14T10:44:49.205-07:002012-04-14T10:44:49.205-07:00Among several ideas, Dan said (5).. Philanthropic ...Among several ideas, Dan said <i>(5).. Philanthropic organizations such as the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the Lumina Foundation for Education could have a major impact by providing the start-up funding needed to collect data on instructional materials and support the research that would put those data to use.</i><br /><br />Two thoughts:<br /><br />1) I'd be a little worried about the direction this could take, given the players.<br /><br />2) This would obviously require testing and associated metrics, either in addition to exiting tests or replacing them. Perhaps they could use something already in place, like MAP or MSP/HSPE, but would that anger the many folks who strongly dislike MAP? Regardless of the merits, there are a lot of parents around that would fight against anything testing-related. <br /><br />On a related note, read <a href="http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/86052/1.html" rel="nofollow">this thread about how the Gates Foundation's MET project can come into a school, and for testing purposes, block a child from moving to an appropriate class, force them to be videotaped or miss classes, and generally make a mess of things.</a><br /><br />Short quote: <i>They are paying the teachers and achools to participate in the study and dictating no placement changes. They are also videotaping the children. You can opt out of being videotaped, but I think that means your child misses class on the days they videotape. You can't opt out of the study (and the placement restrictions) because they are claiming that the children aren't in the study, only the teachers. </i>dwnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38152170052765087742012-04-14T10:15:27.519-07:002012-04-14T10:15:27.519-07:00Olympic Hills is a terrible location for a middle ...Olympic Hills is a terrible location for a middle school. To be blunt, a comprehensive middle school is a complex endeavor, not SPS's speciality. A brand new middle school, with no existing community will not be remotely as straightforward as starting an elementary school. <br /><br />OH is right on the border with Shoreline. Nobody in their right minds would pick a brand new SPS attendance area school when they can simply go a few more blocks and go to one of the best middle schools in the state. <br /><br />- north seattle momAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40019461330280197602012-04-14T09:57:04.363-07:002012-04-14T09:57:04.363-07:00Thank you Melissa and Charlie -
Charlie, I unders...Thank you Melissa and Charlie -<br /><br />Charlie, I understand your arguments (kind of), when you are just looking at dots on a map, but when you look at the neighborhoods around those dots, the Jane Addams building has much better access to transportation, already has middle-school-sized athletic fields, and it's proximity to Hale would be so benefical for a comprehensive middle school community. <br /><br />The Olympic Hills site is located in a quiet neighborhood setting. Has anyone bothered to ask that community if they want a big, 1000-seat middle school build in their neighborhood? <br /><br />Charlie, you mention feeder patterns. Have there been feeder patterns proposed for either the Olympic Hills or Wilson Pacific middle schools? It seems silly to have "community engagement" about this process without a clear understanding of which communities will be affected by the options.<br /><br />-Frustrated up NorthAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13787693911255269532012-04-14T09:36:44.087-07:002012-04-14T09:36:44.087-07:00Up North, you make good points.
According to the ...Up North, you make good points.<br /><br />According to the district's three scenarios, yes, W-P middle school would start up in 2014 at John Marshall and then move to the new building about 2016. So they would be bringing a new middle school on-line sooner.<br /><br />As for moving Addams to a new K-8 building at OH and using the Addams building - a middle school - as a middle school. This was Sherry Carr's suggestion.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2626584503506180992012-04-14T09:25:30.175-07:002012-04-14T09:25:30.175-07:00Just how big is the park between Lincoln and Hamil...Just how big is the park between Lincoln and Hamilton? A covenant is a legal document agreed upon by the parties involved. It isn't like you just change it because some new people want to. <br /><br />Also, two schools the size of Lincoln and Hamilton could overrun and devastate a space if used for recesses. Parks are for people . . . not just kids. <br /><br />The parks mentioned by posters above are generally large spaces, not used for recesses every day - as far as I could discern - and many of the schools mentioned have smaller populations like Billings.<br /><br />Also, recesses are controlled for safety and observability. My school uses Loyal Heights as a destination park but no one uses it daily as a recess space that I know of.<br /><br />If I were a homeowner in that community, I'd probably choose to reserve the space for the quality of the space and the flora and fauna that habitate it. All spaces are not equal. <br /><br />My first years were spend at a school in a rural community with a huge grassy playground with swings. Third grade and on were in Seattle at West Queen Anne: a concrete playground not nearly as big but much more fun. <br /><br />Funny. I spent seventh through twelvth grades at Queen Anne (before McClure) and I don't remember having recesses. <br /><br />Still a Skagit GirlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74311412039734458182012-04-14T09:20:50.429-07:002012-04-14T09:20:50.429-07:00Believe me, Jane Addams families aren't "...Believe me, Jane Addams families aren't "incredibly naive" about how the district operates.JA Parentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2602831011482348742012-04-14T09:18:59.859-07:002012-04-14T09:18:59.859-07:00Frustrated up North,
I think the middle school pl...Frustrated up North,<br /><br />I think the middle school planned for the Olympic Hills property is going to be an attendance area middle school with a set of feeder elementary schools of its own. If that's the case, then I think Olympic Hills is a better location than Jane Addams for that purpose. Think of the future geographical distribution of attendance area middle schools in the north-end. The set of Hamilton, Whitman, Eckstein, Wilson-Pacific, and Olympic Hills is better than it would be with Jane Addams in lieu of Olympic Hills.<br /><br />Besides, what is gained by switching the purpose of the two buildings? Yes, it would accelerate the opening of the middle school, but there's no urgency. The Wilson-Pacific school will open earlier and relieve a lot of the pressure before the Olympic Hills building is ready.<br /><br />And accelerating the opening of the middle school comes by deferring the permanent home for the K-8. It doesn't make more winners, it just changes who they are.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33186716199730022332012-04-14T08:50:03.318-07:002012-04-14T08:50:03.318-07:00oops, the previous post should have been signed &q...oops, the previous post should have been signed "Frustrated up North"<br /><br />-Frustrated up NorthAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com