tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post5595052103664111717..comments2024-03-28T23:38:22.511-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Boundary Work Session Notes - Part 1Melissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13794140656494714112009-11-07T13:27:36.500-08:002009-11-07T13:27:36.500-08:00For the records, I have no issues with Ingraham. ...For the records, I have no issues with Ingraham. It will be my new high school area and my son is now approaching high school. It will definitely be a school we will consider. I hear excellent things about the program there, especially about the IB program. My concern about the boundary change is that I just don't understand why it was made.Reneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01457862819096548694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36554265526000143592009-11-07T13:25:10.712-08:002009-11-07T13:25:10.712-08:00The east of I-5 change to the Hale/Ingraham bounda...The east of I-5 change to the Hale/Ingraham boundary does not make any sense. It divides a neighborhood and includes kids that will have a challenge walking there. Also, it does not make any sense in terms of numbers. Not sure what drove that change.Reneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01457862819096548694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13031462893294600402009-11-06T13:41:10.152-08:002009-11-06T13:41:10.152-08:00On the issue of Ballard, there was just the brief ...On the issue of Ballard, there was just the brief explanation by Tracy Libros that they couldn't raise the northern boundary because then Ballard would be too full. <br /><br />Tracy does keep saying that they are trying not to fill to the brim now in case of growth later on. (That is the reasoning behind making Hale's boundaries tightening up for example.) <br /><br />However she is firm that we have a smaller high school cohort moving through over the next 4 years so I don't know where anyone would get the idea there will be a surge (unless we get a lot of kids from private school which is possible).Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25868075901074918832009-11-06T10:23:22.422-08:002009-11-06T10:23:22.422-08:00Hi I am wondering if there was any discussion duri...Hi I am wondering if there was any discussion during the work session about why they didn't change the Northern boundary of Ballard High. <br />It seems that the shift of the kids around Greenlake and the Zoo to Roosevelt might have opened some space at Ballard, or was it overenrolled in this plan already.<br />The transportation issue in the area, even Greenwood where I love, to Ingraham is huge, inadequate Metro service, transfers etc. Hard to accept this when we live close enough to walk.<br />It appears to me that a far larger percentage of both the Ballard and Ingraham area will need to be transported than any other high school. I would have thought they might have tried to spread that around a little, but seems to have been no effort to do so.<br />Also a parent from Loyal Heights who I met at the school board meeting told me that because these boundaries are set up to accomodate the students that will live in the boundary area in 2015 the incoming classes for the next few years at some high schools (we were talking about Ballard) will have more space because there is a population bubble of kids coming to high school in a few years, so he implied there might be additional open seats at Ballard this year.<br />Interested in any input on this.teresahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11731382722946138423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2712857078576735002009-11-06T06:41:47.858-08:002009-11-06T06:41:47.858-08:00Mardi, the idea that McDonald will be underenrolle...Mardi, the idea that McDonald will be underenrolled comes from the District's enrollment projections.<br /><br />You may be right and these projections may prove to be very bad. As I often say, I don't know the truth, I only know what the District tells me.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21397380140646758902009-11-05T23:21:06.863-08:002009-11-05T23:21:06.863-08:00where does the perception comes that there are not...where does the perception comes that there are not enough families/students to support McDonald? I live in university district and am in the McDonald assignment area. Within 2 blocks our house there are 23 children under 8. 10 years ago University Park may have been dominated by student housing, but it is certainly not the case today. While we wish we had the option for an elementary school within a "walk zone" we are happy to have one school that our neighborhood can rally around. Today the kids in our neighborhood are divided between four different schools.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17960688894580492366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88541778223151234632009-11-05T22:18:04.357-08:002009-11-05T22:18:04.357-08:00I'm probably moving back to Seattle from Japan...I'm probably moving back to Seattle from Japan next year, and I've been reading your blog very closely in recent weeks. Just want to say thank you for your careful attention and explanations - it's a great help.Jessicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09497541461146364475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36284876842843865432009-11-05T14:14:56.319-08:002009-11-05T14:14:56.319-08:00BTW the district did do mandatory assignments (and...BTW the district did do mandatory assignments (and plenty of them) to JA in grades K-5. I was just referring to the MS, grades 6-8.SPS parenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00766426598026724476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78269228816906572252009-11-05T14:13:02.035-08:002009-11-05T14:13:02.035-08:00Solvay, nobody was "forced" to go to JA ...Solvay, nobody was "forced" to go to JA for MS. The district could not do mandatory assignments to the school because it is not a comprehensive MS.<br /><br />However, after open enrollment all MS's north of the ship canal were full. So any families who did not apply on time or were new to the district, who wanted a MS north of the ship canal had no choice but to "choose" JA. All of the other schools were full.SPS parenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00766426598026724476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33203638822981448082009-11-05T13:48:35.297-08:002009-11-05T13:48:35.297-08:00Ya know...after reading these blogs and comments o...Ya know...after reading these blogs and comments over the past few weeks, it is obvious that no one can say exactly how any of the new assignment plan works with 100% certainty. Isn't it remarkable hat our school board voted on something that is still in it's development stage?<br /><br />Sure, they needed to get an idea of the boundaries for the attendance areas, but setting those boundaries in stone without the answers to the myriad of questions and contingencies voiced on these blogs is, IMHO, irresponsible.SolvayGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12709893209963350066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30433153815916667942009-11-05T13:45:31.156-08:002009-11-05T13:45:31.156-08:00But Cleveland will be that new breed of "Opti...But Cleveland will be that new breed of "Option" school. I didn't think you could force an "option" on anyone—especially one that is math/science focused.SolvayGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12709893209963350066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88609236316430919472009-11-05T13:08:14.528-08:002009-11-05T13:08:14.528-08:00Charlie be careful about applying to Cleveland bas...Charlie be careful about applying to Cleveland based on the possibility of small class sizes.<br /><br />We listed Jane addams as our second choice school for the same reasons - small school/class sizes. When enrollment was complete we were quite happy to learn that there were only 100 kids assigned to the entire middle school! <br /><br />Two things happened to change this thoug. <br /><br />First, after open enrollment was complete, JA was the only traditional (albeit not comprehensive) middle school north of the ship canal that had space. So any kid who wanted a MS seat north of the ship canal had no choice but to "choose" JA (or AS1 if they wanted an alt school). JA gained a lot of enrollment after open enrollment was complete - over the Spring and summer.<br /><br />Second, since it was the first year of existence for JA, they were technically considered a NCLB "passing" school. So kids from all across the district, that were attending NCLB "failing" schools were offered an opt out transfer to JA with transportation. This happened the last two weeks before school started, and added about 100 kids to the over all school population.<br /><br />All of a sudden the 6th grade classes at JA had 30+ kids in them. Not so appealing any more......<br /><br />So there is some recent history on opening a new school. <br /><br />It may be different in the south end, because Franklin and RBHS have extra space, so kids won't be "forced" into Cleveland. But it's still something to consider.SPS parenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00766426598026724476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81257414780640877022009-11-05T12:14:58.904-08:002009-11-05T12:14:58.904-08:00Don't forget that the District is expecting 5%...Don't forget that the District is expecting 5% of the students in the Ballard and Roosevelt areas to choose Cleveland STEM. How credible is that?<br /><br />They are also expecting 5% of the students in the Ingraham, Nathan Hale, Sealth, and West Seattle attendance areas to choose Cleveland STEM, 6.5% of the students in the Garfield attendance area, and a whopping 13% of the students in the Franklin and Rainier Beach attendance areas.<br /><br />I don't think it's going to happen.<br /><br />Honestly, one of the appealing things about Cleveland STEM for my family is the strong possibility that no more than 50 students may enroll as freshmen next year. We're looking forward to class sizes of less than 20.<br /><br />This year, with Cleveland available to any student who wanted to choose it, 49 incoming 9th grade students named it as their first choice for assignment during open enrollment. Forty-nine. By the end of open enrollment, 88 incoming ninth graders were assigned to the school. Of course by the time that October 1 head counts were done, there were 244 9th graders in the building.<br /><br />That was this year. Next year enrollment will be done differently.<br /><br />First, every student will get a default assignment in February. Because Cleveland will be an Option school, there won't be anyone who gets a default assignment there. No one. Not even the students living in the geographic zone.<br /><br />Then, in March, only those who want something other than their default assignment will participate in the Open Enrollment process.<br /><br />Does anyone honestly believe that students who get a default assignment and a guaranteed seat at Roosevelt or Ballard will reject it in favor of Cleveland? I suspect that a few students might, but nothing like one out of every twenty. More like one out of every fifty.<br /><br />How many of them are choosing to go to Cleveland now? Seven students from the Ballard area and five students from the Roosevelt area are now enrolled at Cleveland.<br /><br />Why would they? For the STEM program? Maybe, if anyone had any idea what this STEM program is really going to be about. Cleveland is going to have the same math classes as every other high school and the same science classes as every other high school. So what exactly - if anything - is the STEM program that makes Cleveland different from a comprehensive high school? No one can say yet and I don't think they will be able to say by March either.<br /><br />How many students in the Ingraham and Hale attendance areas who live north of NE 85th street are going to choose to get on a METRO bus and ride all the way down to Cleveland every day because they are so excited about the STEM program - a program that is unlikely to be much more defined in March than it is right now. Do you think it's going to be one out of every twenty? I don't.<br /><br />How many of them are choosing to go to Cleveland now? Three students from the Ingraham area and two from the Hale area are now enrolled at Cleveland. That's all.<br /><br />Cleveland draws a little better from West Seattle.<br /><br />Most of Cleveland's students come from southeast Seattle, but I wonder how many of them will choose Cleveland after they get an assignment notice in February saying that they are assigned to Garfield, Franklin, or Rainier Beach. Honestly, I think that most of them will simply accept the assignment. That's certainly what the District is expecting people to do.<br /><br />Do you see many of them choosing Cleveland over Garfield? I don't. Over Franklin? Not many.<br /><br />You might think that some of them will opt out of Rainier Beach, but consider this: Does Cleveland offer an escape from the concerns presented by Rainier Beach? If you're opting out of Rainier Beach because you are concerned about violence or because you're concerned about academic achievement are you going to choose Cleveland instead or are you more likely to choose Franklin or Garfield or Sealth? Is Cleveland's record of discipline and achievement so much better than Rainier Beach's?<br /><br />For our family, the expectation that enrollment at Cleveland will be very small is part of the appeal.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1825356640935115632009-11-05T10:23:24.618-08:002009-11-05T10:23:24.618-08:00Same at Ballard. Lots of North Beach, Blue Ridge,...Same at Ballard. Lots of North Beach, Blue Ridge, Crown Hill Folks with incoming freshman siblings. <br /><br />I can only assume that they are counting on kids at the RHS and BHS areas to go private, center school or APP at Garfield to keep the numbers down. Good luck with that one.Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12875541753709754758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47655503907659558452009-11-05T10:17:43.197-08:002009-11-05T10:17:43.197-08:00And Keepin' On, at one point Tracy said the 10...And Keepin' On, at one point Tracy said the 10% of open choice seats would, under the transition, be only at the size of the freshman class. That is even fewer and I'd bet, at RHS for example, that there are a lot of (now) out-of-attendance area kids who have sibs. 40 seats won't be enough, I don't think.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43011615850578912172009-11-05T08:35:44.063-08:002009-11-05T08:35:44.063-08:00To build on other posts here:
Re Siblings and ope...To build on other posts here:<br /><br />Re Siblings and open choice. They have not asked at all which high school students have younger siblings entering schools as 9th graders next year. They are only planning to ask incoming kindergartners, right? Not very smart in my opinion. If you have a lot of siblings coming from what is now out of area or from private middle schools in area, those siblings and private school attendance area students must be seated first in the open choice 10% seats for high school. This really will cut down on the amount of open choice seats available. Example: Ballard or Roosevelt. 10% of open choice seats is 160, 40 per grade, let's say you have 20 siblings who need the open choice seats, that means only 20 seats are available to out of area students. Not really "choice" at all. This is a scenario I fully expect to happen. And they have no idea how many are coming, because they haven't asked anyone.Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12875541753709754758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52805232990000797712009-11-05T04:07:03.477-08:002009-11-05T04:07:03.477-08:00Josh Hayes asked:
"if 10% of seats are availa...Josh Hayes asked:<br />"<i>if 10% of seats are available for open enrollment, is that grade by grade? So, if a school has, say, 1600 slots, there'll be 40 in each grade for open enrollment? Or 160 in (if it's a high school) 9th grade? Or what?<br /></i>"<br /><br />The official answer, so far, is:<br />"That will be determined in the transition plan."<br /><br />My expectation, which I know has not been confirmed, is that 10% of the seats in each grade will be available to out-of-area students.<br /><br />So, starting with the 9th grade in 2010, 10% of the seats available for incoming freshmen will be for out-of-area students.<br /><br />In 2011, again, 10% of the seats available for incoming students will be for out-of-area students. The $64,000 question is, what share of any available seats in the 10th grade will be available for out-of-area students? I believe that that the only possible answer would be "All but those deemed necessary to meet anticipated demand from attendance area students."<br /><br />The district will have to estimate the number of attendance area students who were not at the school in the 9th grade the previous year but might want a seat in the 10th grade this year. They could be coming from private school, from a service school, from out of district, or from some other school in the district because their family moved or because they decided to change schools.<br /><br />That's what I would reckon, but I haven't seen any actual statement on it. It is a problem for next year - not this year - so I think they have deferred it to next year.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43268699920189553912009-11-04T23:02:46.794-08:002009-11-04T23:02:46.794-08:00Melissa,
In your original post you said:
"S...Melissa,<br /><br />In your original post you said:<br /><br /><i>"Sherry also asked Tracy about a rumor that the 10% of Open Choice seats at Ingraham would be for IB students. Tracy said there is no distinction about who gets Open Choice seats by any program."</i><br /><br />I think I misinterpreted this, but it illustrates a question: if 10% of seats are available for open enrollment, is that grade by grade? So, if a school has, say, 1600 slots, there'll be 40 in each grade for open enrollment? Or 160 in (if it's a high school) 9th grade? Or what?<br /><br />I think I assumed that open slots were in 9th grade - I don't know why, exactly. Is there some demographic flattening to the distribution of open slots, or what? Does anyone know?Josh Hayeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17242600011474990770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62768993229333981162009-11-04T20:43:33.917-08:002009-11-04T20:43:33.917-08:00Maybe they are thinking of North-End APP at McDona...Maybe they are thinking of North-End APP at McDonald. The Lowell attendance area looks to be the same size as Stevens -- which seems a little strange since they have to have room for North-end APP.CCMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07038994914929300444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91557686324247831072009-11-04T20:35:58.554-08:002009-11-04T20:35:58.554-08:00Yes. What dj said. This is not about the parents. ...Yes. What dj said. This is not about the parents. It's about the district's poor program roadmapping.<br /><br />And, immersion schools strike a particular hot spot because the district says it is harder to hire folks for these programs. Which means even more attention needs to be put on where they are offered.<br /><br />It would not be OK to place a program like this *right next to* the most highly regarded (and one of the only) district language immersion programs without explanation about how they will role out similar programs district-wide. Really, really bad on the equity front.<br /><br />And again, I'm saying the McDonald draw area is one of the weakest assignment areas as far as cohesiveness of neighborhoods. And I do completely agree it will need great programming to get it off the ground. So, what's the District's plan? Or maybe we shouldn't be opening the school at all, if there isn't a clear one.Central Momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05411595538958030193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79733062495923575462009-11-04T20:30:30.761-08:002009-11-04T20:30:30.761-08:00Charlie was discussing McDonald: "Then I see ...Charlie was discussing McDonald: "Then I see that although there are barely enough students to even justify opening the building (or, depending on your numbers, not even enough) ... I don't get that. The enrollment will barely justify even opening the building but the District says that it needs portables.<br /><br />I'm not saying that it can't be explained, but I think someone needs to explain it."<br /><br />How about this explanation: Program placement changes are still in the mix, and will be decided by staff *after* the Board votes, right? And this will give a building that's dead-center of the entire NE/N/NW/QAM "north half" of SPS. And it's under-enrolled. Voila! There's your north 1/2 of elementary APP, and the Board doesn't get to interfere.<br /><br />Sure, it's probably wishful thinking, but it's logical. What's not logical is that it sure feels like the staff has some specific plans for that building, and they're not telling us. Why? Why can't we ever get honest, transparent answers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1532059740683885482009-11-04T18:09:11.490-08:002009-11-04T18:09:11.490-08:00seattleparent,
Per Dr. Libros, following the fina...seattleparent,<br /><br />Per Dr. Libros, following the final approval of the boundaries (Nov. 18) a letter will be mailed to all K-4 families that are living outside of the attendance area of the school they attend. It is to specifically find out about younger siblings.<br /><br />This letter is also mentioned in the updated FAQs about Grandfathering.StepJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11375599834945035820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75923242554846487062009-11-04T18:08:58.021-08:002009-11-04T18:08:58.021-08:00I don't blame the area families for wanting an...I don't blame the area families for wanting an attractive program. I blame the district for not being intentional about its option program placement or ensuring equitable access going forward.djhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720927162286657378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75029104720914437752009-11-04T17:42:22.203-08:002009-11-04T17:42:22.203-08:00Hmmm. A second language immersion program at McDon...<i>Hmmm. A second language immersion program at McDonald, right next to JSIS, when most swaths of the city have no chance of accessing any language immersion program?</i><br /><br />This language immersion idea is coming directly from families affected by the new attendance area. Some have been lobbying the School Board and others to gain momentum with this idea.<br /><br />I completely agree with you that it is unfair that other areas of the city do not have access to immersion programs. You have to understand, though, that some of these parents have "gotten a rock" (a la Charlie Brown) for YEARS. No access to JSIS, because it was overcrowded. Some in the U District and south Bryant have also been in a dead zone, where they can't get into any of the nearby schools. This area has very low SPS "market share" as a result. Why shouldn't these families try to make this school into something very attractive to them?Pherniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08513541672890462986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1370115789821828082009-11-04T16:15:25.851-08:002009-11-04T16:15:25.851-08:00I was surprised to learn that McDonald - a closed ...I was surprised to learn that McDonald - a closed school - has a couple of portables. Like we need the addtional capacity that portables provide at a closed building? Then I see that although there are barely enough students to even justify opening the building (or, depending on your numbers, not even enough), part of the cost of re-opening the school is placing a couple of portables there. I don't get that. The enrollment will barely justify even opening the building but the District says that it needs portables.<br /><br />I'm not saying that it can't be explained, but I think someone needs to explain it.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.com