tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post5659493790313445455..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Interesting Discussion at the Curriculum & Instruction Policy Committee MeetingMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75163456771825644202009-02-27T18:31:00.000-08:002009-02-27T18:31:00.000-08:00Charlie,Perhaps we should begin a list of the stat...Charlie,<BR/><BR/>Perhaps we should begin a list of the state laws ignored by the SPS?dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87810278926222950472009-02-27T15:02:00.000-08:002009-02-27T15:02:00.000-08:00In Seattle the numbers are easy. Here, 0% and 0% e...In Seattle the numbers are easy. Here, 0% and 0% earn credit in math or foreign language prior to entering 9th grade. Seattle Public Schools - in violation of state law - refuses to grant credit for high school level work done prior to entering high school.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87990367527095809402009-02-27T13:31:00.000-08:002009-02-27T13:31:00.000-08:00That 26% in math is about in line with various fig...That 26% in math is about in line with various figures I've heard for the percentage of kids taking algebra in eighth grade. It is odd that so many get credit for it. <BR/><BR/>Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39618606751397235952009-02-26T21:46:00.000-08:002009-02-26T21:46:00.000-08:00Charlie, you might find this of interest:"This ana...Charlie, you might find this of interest:<BR/><BR/>"This analysis focused on whether students earned high school credits in math or world language prior to entering 9th grade.<BR/>Results showed that 26.1% and 6.3% of high school graduates earned credits<BR/>in math or foreign language, respectively, prior to entering 9th grade (see Figure 13)."<BR/><BR/>This is a report by the BERC group last year of all the WA high schools and their graduation transcripts. It was presented to the state Board of Ed. Those figures are much higher than I would expect- I wonder what Seattle's are? Why so different?<BR/><BR/>www.sbe.wa.gov/documents/<BR/>TranscriptStudy2008_FINAL_000.pdfSPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12726295210572942506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58979164488706955632009-02-26T19:52:00.000-08:002009-02-26T19:52:00.000-08:00Interesting that agenda:AGENDA1. Grading Policy2. ...Interesting that agenda:<BR/>AGENDA<BR/>1. Grading Policy<BR/>2. Promotion/Non-Promotion Policy<BR/>3. Transportation/Bell Times<BR/>----------------------<BR/>So the Curriculum&Instruction Policy meeting never made it to item #2.<BR/><B><BR/>Does anyone have any idea when the next meeting will take place?<BR/></B>.<BR/>.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67075539948426672372009-02-25T13:01:00.000-08:002009-02-25T13:01:00.000-08:00I suspect that that people have to request the cre...I suspect that that people have to request the credit because that is the way that the law is written - not that people have to request it, but that the District has to award it upon request.<BR/><BR/>There is no legitimate reason to require that the request come within five weeks of starting high school. It just serves no purpose.<BR/><BR/>There is no legitimate reason to disallow credit for classes taken before next year. They can put the burden of proof onto the applicant if they think it's too much work to research classes before next year.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57346539000217338542009-02-25T10:16:00.000-08:002009-02-25T10:16:00.000-08:00I think high school credit for middle school class...I think high school credit for middle school classes should work the same way as college credit for AP classes: credit and placement, but no grade.<BR/><BR/>Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56264064339915793222009-02-25T08:53:00.000-08:002009-02-25T08:53:00.000-08:00Charlie, honestly when I read that term limit I ha...Charlie, honestly when I read that term limit I had the thought it was designed in response to your case. I'm probably just seeing a conspiracy when there really isn't one, but I'm sorry your daughter is the Lily Leadbetter of SPS right now.h2o girlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12512408535354009657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62132289098841583782009-02-25T08:51:00.000-08:002009-02-25T08:51:00.000-08:00Charlie, they did ask why anyone had to apply for ...Charlie, they did ask why anyone had to apply for the credit (and it wasn't given as part of the middle school transcript). Carla said that some kids don't want that grade they received in middle school on their high school transcript and the Board members seemed to accept it. (I think it should be the reverse; if you take a high school course in middle school, it shows up on your high school transcript unless you say otherwise).<BR/><BR/>When the issue of when this should be enacted came up, they all shook their heads over it being retroactive. There wasn't discussion so I can't say for sure why but I think it's because of the work it would involve.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59754805065542556532009-02-25T08:08:00.000-08:002009-02-25T08:08:00.000-08:00Did no one on the Board object to the five-week ti...Did no one on the Board object to the five-week time limit for requesting credit for high school courses taken in middle school? What purpose does that limit serve?<BR/><BR/>Did no one on the Board object to the prohibition against students requesting credit for classes taken before next year? What purpose does that prohibition serve?<BR/><BR/>I have requested credit for work my daughter has done and had that credit refused for no good reason. Two different Board members have told me that I could re-submit the request after they update the Policy, but with these prohibitions in place there would be no point to it.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81436006736787392432009-02-24T19:33:00.000-08:002009-02-24T19:33:00.000-08:00Thank you very much for the summary of the meeting...Thank you very much for the summary of the meeting. <BR/><BR/>I do NOT favor weighting grades for honors or ap or whatever, ... unless you are tying the class grade to some national standard - such as an SAT math score or an AP Calc score. <BR/><BR/>I know many parents and many teachers would disagree with me. <BR/><BR/>YAWN.<BR/><BR/>Bob MurphyMathTeacher42https://www.blogger.com/profile/07157900103432833615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84915923257531109002009-02-24T17:46:00.000-08:002009-02-24T17:46:00.000-08:00"Students who are working their a$$es off, in regu...<I>"Students who are working their a$$es off, in regular classes, deserve to be recognized as much as students who glide through AP's."</I><BR/><BR/>I don't really think I was disparging anyones effort. I was simply showing a contrast in ease of doing academic work. I certainly know there are students who work very hard at AP classes- I have mentioned , many, many times, my own daughter who was in aremedial course at the same time as an AP- as well as quite a few of her classmates.<BR/><BR/>However- while she took one, or at most two AP courses at a time, there are also students who take 4 or more, starting in 9th grade. I imagine unless they are real gluttons for punishment, they find it more managable than students who struggle with one.<BR/> ( and of course there are students who take the test and get a 4 or 5, without taking the class)<BR/><BR/>My point was actually- I don't think grades need to be weighted, I believe that contributes to grade inflation.Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60341913070563293322009-02-24T10:37:00.000-08:002009-02-24T10:37:00.000-08:00Rigor ?? would we know it if we saw it?Another use...Rigor ?? would we know it if we saw it?<BR/><BR/>Another useless undefined term.<BR/><BR/>Classroom based assessments might measure rigor but to assume that they all are rigorous is naive.<BR/><BR/>The WA schools exist in "lala" land as there are no nationally normed tests given across the state to all children at any grade level.<BR/><BR/>It was said: "<I>PSAT? Not aligned with state standards and not something that increases or ensures rigor. Where'd they get that idea? Are they planning to require a minimum PSAT score? Or what?</I>"<BR/><BR/>At least the PSAT (as given recently in the SPS) would give us a rough idea of where our kids stand on some nationally normed test. Well if the district ever decided to let us know it would. The PSAT results were out in January for Students. Perhaps March would not be too early for public notification of group results.<BR/><BR/>Correct the PSAT will not raise rigor or increase student academic acomplishment but it would give us a rough idea of where our students stand on a broad national assessment. Currently we know ZERO in that regard.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45254356011938782392009-02-24T10:12:00.000-08:002009-02-24T10:12:00.000-08:00"Students who are working their a$$es off, in regu..."Students who are working their a$$es off, in regular classes, deserve to be recognized as much as students who glide through AP's."<BR/><BR/>Look, can we not disparage any student's efforts? I know plenty of kids, including my own, who find AP very challenging and work very hard in their classes. I know very few kids who "glide" through AP. <BR/><BR/>I will gently say that the effort made in the classes does matter but as I have posted elsewhere, that issue would need to be communicated when a student applies for college. Because colleges and universities look for students who take on the higher level classes (if available). They would weigh a B in an AP class higher than an A in a regular class (core). That's just how they roll. <BR/><BR/>I may have misspoken on my point about the PSAT. The district looks as it as a WAY to find kids who could use more rigor, not that it is adding anything (unless you count the experience of taking a higher level test).Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21157191941868851342009-02-24T09:57:00.000-08:002009-02-24T09:57:00.000-08:00I like the PSAT being given in 9th and 10th grade,...I like the PSAT being given in 9th and 10th grade, but I don't see it being used to increase rigor at all. In fact I don't really see it being used for anything except college counseling (and advertising -- my kids are getting college ads, college summer camp ads, etc., every day now -- yes, thank you, I *would* like to send my kids to Oxford or Brown for the summer, who's paying for it? Me? Sorry). I think it's definitely a "weighing the pig doesn't make it any fatter" phenomenon.<BR/><BR/>Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90802252192292268052009-02-24T08:15:00.000-08:002009-02-24T08:15:00.000-08:00They don't necessarily need to wait grades- Both m...They don't necessarily need to wait grades- Both my kids were admitted to all the colleges they applied without weighted grades.<BR/><BR/>One - unweighted grades are noted in report to colleges on school.<BR/>Some classes ( marine biology for example) are equally rigourous to honors/AP.<BR/>Students who are working their a$$es off, in regular classes, deserve to be recognized as much as students who glide through AP's.<BR/><BR/>Garfield is very proud of the sports teams and my daughters coaches have stressed academics come first.<BR/>The football coach requires all players to take the SAT as well.<BR/>If they take GPA requirement away, who has their back?<BR/>I realize it is not optimal but having a GPA requirement does motivate some athletes to pay more attention to classwork.<BR/><BR/>( Melissa- yes endorsements are from K-8 or subject)<BR/> <BR/> <BR/><BR/><I>Defining Quality<BR/><BR/>Generally speaking, teachers are considered highly qualified in Washington State if they can meet one of six qualifications, from holding an endorsement for K-8 or a degree in a core academic subject (English, reading, language arts, mathematics, science, foreign languages, civics, government, economics, geography, history or art); to passing the PRAXIS II; to being evaluated as satisfactory by a supervisor. </I><BR/>http://www.cstp-wa.org/Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22978662513296496182009-02-24T08:08:00.000-08:002009-02-24T08:08:00.000-08:00What I understood from yesterday is that the endor...What I understood from yesterday is that the endorsement is elementary/middle and then high school. Teachers?<BR/><BR/>I am writing a separate piece on the bell times; I was tired last night and I didn't want the post to be extra long. <BR/><BR/>Dan, Carla had some handout that didn't get passed out on promotion/non-promotion. She waved it off because the meeting was running late and they spent most of the time on the 5 recommendations and Harium wanted to talk about the bell times. I got the feeling the discussion on promotion/non-promotion was just starting.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1499322504415298212009-02-24T08:03:00.000-08:002009-02-24T08:03:00.000-08:00I am under the impression --- please correct me --...I am under the impression --- please correct me --- that there are two sorts of endorsements in Washington, elementary and middle/high school. So wouldn't most if not all middle school teachers already have their high school credentials? I don't see how that could be that big an issue in the high school credit for courses taken in middle school debate.Dorothy Nevillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17108759281089768738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30692781998119085802009-02-24T07:10:00.000-08:002009-02-24T07:10:00.000-08:00Thanks for these notes.I pointed out on the survey...Thanks for these notes.<BR/><BR/>I pointed out on the survey completed that IF we adopt an 11 point scale, then we would have even more reason NOT muck with the 2.0 requirements. It would be easier for a student to get higher than a 2.0 in that case, because every C+ would bump them up. Seems fair and reasonable to me and maintains a minimum amount of accountability and integrity.<BR/><BR/>As for their reasons to pat themselves on the back regarding rigor? Puleeeze. I just read it off to my son and he agreed. Total BS.<BR/><BR/>Increased participation in AP? Yes, at Roosevelt it is a mandatory participation in an AP class that is "rigorous" and "honors" and "college level" in name only. The mandatory participation in AP-Lite meant that the 50% of the class (about 175 kids per year) who WANTED more rigor with a real honest to goodness fast paced challenging AP class are denied that opportunity. <BR/><BR/>Higher WASL expectations? Sure, and 65,000 WASL booklets just got shredded the other day because they couldn't afford to administer and grade them and we are shredding the whole WASL thing next year anyway. <BR/><BR/>PSAT? Not aligned with state standards and not something that increases or ensures rigor. Where'd they get that idea? Are they planning to require a minimum PSAT score? Or what?<BR/><BR/>OSPI's CBAs? Puleeze. Has any teacher anywhere adopted these? My son's first grade teacher used these, I have never seen one since. And just because a teacher might give this to the class, what's it mean? Couldn't the kids all turn them into paper airplanes? But the teacher and principal could say "yay! we gave classroom based assessments! ain't we got rigor."<BR/><BR/>Sure, they are talking about end of year exams. Someone, somewhere in OSPI is discussing the creation of such exams. That's enough to say it's a done deal and we have rigor now?Dorothy Nevillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17108759281089768738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26557048740998747252009-02-23T23:29:00.000-08:002009-02-23T23:29:00.000-08:00What happened to the discussion about ...............What happened to the discussion about ............<BR/>Melissa said: <I>"The topics to be discussed were changes to the grading policy, <B>promotion/non-promotion</B>"</I><BR/><BR/>So what happened to the <B>promotion / non-promotion policies </B>????<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the Report.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58536490473039818452009-02-23T22:28:00.000-08:002009-02-23T22:28:00.000-08:00What happened to the discussion about the new prop...What happened to the discussion about the new proposed Start Times??<BR/><BR/>Did it get squeezed out due to time constraints, or did you have to leave early?<BR/><BR/>From your post on Saturday:<BR/>-----------------------<BR/>Curriculum & Instruction Policy Committee Meeting<BR/>February 23, 2009<BR/>4:30 - 6:00 pm<BR/><BR/>AGENDA<BR/>1. Grading Policy<BR/>2. Promotion/Non-Promotion Policy<BR/>3. Transportation/Bell TimesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com