tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post5680772707311215540..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Wednesday Open ThreadMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7501540618439614932012-04-26T09:02:01.085-07:002012-04-26T09:02:01.085-07:00From Professor Mark Naison at Fordham:
One of the ...From Professor Mark Naison at Fordham:<br />One of the great thing about fighting an uphill battle against impossible odds, other than being able to sleep well at night, is that no one can accuse you of "being in it for the money." You also meet amazing people, some of whom are true heroes and the camaraderie can be inspiring That is what it feels like to be part of the battle to save public education in the United States. So Billionaires, Test Creaters, Privatizers, Corrupt politicians and your media sycophants, "See what you've got, give it your best shot, bring on your wrecking ball!"<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWpG_ULYpr8" rel="nofollow">Bruce Springsteen - Wrecking Ball</a>Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30500597110773129062012-04-25T21:43:57.704-07:002012-04-25T21:43:57.704-07:00Melissa's back! Check the threadMelissa's back! Check the threadStopTFAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08605108615707039386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54678873813663013182012-04-25T21:39:40.169-07:002012-04-25T21:39:40.169-07:00Who's on First, What's on Second and I dun...Who's on First, What's on Second and I dunno's on Third. : )<br /><br />Alves is the San Juan Unified's Exec Dir of the union (not the president) in California. This is the district Enoch led in the mid-2000s (known as the Schwarzenegger era). So I see he is the Bafia of that union. <br /><br />Hertel was President of the San Juan Island union during Enoch's time there as principal and supt (pre-1995 to 2002)<br /><br />Wonder why nobody is quoted from the San Ramon Valley Educators Association? They would have no reason not to speak openly, given that Enoch's announced his retirement. But here is news item from their last contract negotiation:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.srvusd.k12.ca.us/groups/news_item?d=x&id=1285482042816&group_id=1218730266304&return_url=1285999071174" rel="nofollow">During last year’s negotiations process, the District indicated that it would be willing to return to the negotiation table to discuss any significant changes in its financial picture. Enrollment growth, as well as some new federal stimulus funds, did improve the financial status of the district.<br />“We are extremely pleased that, while the State budget situation continues to be very worrisome, recent federal funds as well as unanticipated growth in student enrollment for this year allowed us to come back to the table and restore an instructional day for studentsand a training day for teachers, while lessening the financial burden that our teachers agreed to assume this year,” said Superintendent Steven Enoch.</a>StopTFAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08605108615707039386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45969812203819764482012-04-25T21:37:56.305-07:002012-04-25T21:37:56.305-07:00Melissa,
Where are you?Melissa,<br /><br />Where are you?Watchingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29152884501675836132012-04-25T21:32:13.871-07:002012-04-25T21:32:13.871-07:00Jan, you got it! Sorry I didn't catch your upd...Jan, you got it! Sorry I didn't catch your update before my post.<br />--AAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40230974788011819132012-04-25T21:29:40.366-07:002012-04-25T21:29:40.366-07:00No, Alves is a San Juan, CA guy. The San Juan unif...No, Alves is a San Juan, CA guy. The San Juan unified school district is where Enoch was BETWEEN San Juan, WA and San Ramon, CA, (and San Ramon is where he is retiring from this year). <br /><br />Anxiously waiting for Melissa's thoughts from today. <br />--AAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46175965580835550022012-04-25T21:28:50.754-07:002012-04-25T21:28:50.754-07:00Alas -- I have answered my own question (I think) ...Alas -- I have answered my own question (I think) and I was wrong. Here is the little cv blurb below Mr. Enoch's photo in the ST:<br /><br />More than 30 years in education; now superintendent of San Ramon Unified School District; previously held superintendent posts at the San Juan Unified School District near Sacramento, the Mead School District near Spokane, the San Juan Island School District, and the Bosnall Unified School District near San Diego; began career as a science teacher in Pomona, Calif.<br /><br />So -- by way of "Sans:" one San Ramon; TWO San Juans --one in California and one in Washington (and something near San Diego to boot).Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4999459193345420962012-04-25T21:23:59.494-07:002012-04-25T21:23:59.494-07:00So -- Alves is actually a San RAMON guy, and Greg ...So -- Alves is actually a San RAMON guy, and Greg Hertel is the San Juan Washington guy? Right? And the ST maybe just misprinted the District name for the California guy? (I think in California, they do better with all the Sans and Santas than we do up here, where there are not so many?)Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22872840128879169742012-04-25T20:51:27.711-07:002012-04-25T20:51:27.711-07:00I am gratified to see that the SRVEA seems to be a...I am gratified to see that the SRVEA seems to be a very active union (if a bit lax in updating their website). It seems that the CA budget situation does stink, nevertheless the union did not lose ground. Good.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.srvea.org/Signal%20June%202011.pdf" rel="nofollow">latest newletter (from 2011)</a>StopTFAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08605108615707039386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75867026711027387432012-04-25T20:42:29.753-07:002012-04-25T20:42:29.753-07:00No, Enoch is retiring from San Ramon Valley Unifie...No, Enoch is retiring from San Ramon Valley Unified, not San Juan.StopTFAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08605108615707039386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-3798704364072114022012-04-25T20:33:33.260-07:002012-04-25T20:33:33.260-07:00I'm surprised he's not heading to Puerto R...I'm surprised he's not heading to Puerto Rico!BLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31830017019460155572012-04-25T20:33:27.822-07:002012-04-25T20:33:27.822-07:00Jan,
It appears that Greg Hertel was the union gu...Jan,<br /><br />It appears that Greg Hertel was the union guy in WA state (San Juan Island) when Enoch first became a superintendent (this also appears to be the place where the financial debacle occurred). <br /><br />According to the ST, Alves is the executive director of the union in the district where Enoch has most recently worked and is retiring from (CA--San Juan).<br /><br />Like I wrote earlier, the financial disaster in CA could be the source of the issues between Enoch and the union. As far as the difference in assessments between the two union guys, there are a lot of potential reasons (in addition changed fiscal times): Enoch was facing a larger, stronger union; he was more experienced and maybe more bold about standing firm; the union may have been resisting policies that were beneficial to students but protective of benefits/wages...I don't know.<br /><br />Regardless, it is a very forceful statement for a union director to make (especially to a newspaper), and I believe it deserves follow-up. <br /><br />--enough alreadyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26857214820484811492012-04-25T20:29:47.223-07:002012-04-25T20:29:47.223-07:00Hmmm, I've been waiting for Melissa report all...Hmmm, I've been waiting for Melissa report all day. Hope she wasn't required to sign an NDA!mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74862256695398908612012-04-25T20:14:45.704-07:002012-04-25T20:14:45.704-07:00Naw, you see now I don't feel so alone in my c...Naw, you see now I don't feel so alone in my confusion. Believe it or not, Steven Enoch was Supt at San Juan Island School District in WA and San Juan Unified SD in California! Yeah, I know. What are the odds!mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16097710614932112732012-04-25T20:03:10.715-07:002012-04-25T20:03:10.715-07:00Thanks, Stop TFA: I JUST went to the ST comments ...Thanks, Stop TFA: I JUST went to the ST comments and found the same (or nearly the same) quote:<br /><br />I remember the business manager as the one responsible for the San Juan debacle, not Mr. Enoch. My take is that if Seattle wants a straight shooter who will tell it like it is and work to make meaningful change, Enoch would be a great choice. OTOH, if they want a politically correct boot licker, look elsewhere. I was a full time teacher and also the Union president (San Juan Ed Association) all the years Mr. Enoch was here. I sometimes found him to be brusque as stated in the article but I also found him to be very professional and fair. You could disagree with him and it was never personal. I can't say that for some other administrators I've worked with. Friday Harbor was Mr. Enoch's first go as a district superintendent, he was hired as the high school principal, and moved up when the superintendent job opened after only one year as principal. I feel that he did an excellent job for the district.<br /><br /> Enough already -- I am confused. Are Tom Alves and Greg Hertel BOTH San Juan Union guys? How can they both be the head of the union (does the union have BOTH a president AND an executive director at the same time? -- for a district as small as San Juan County? If they are both San Juan guys, what do you make of such different assessments?Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90159229713057518612012-04-25T19:57:08.101-07:002012-04-25T19:57:08.101-07:00former SJI union director Greg Hertel posts:
&quo...former SJI union director Greg Hertel posts:<br /><br />"I was a teacher in the San Juan Island school District during Mr. Enoch’s tenure as first a high school principal and later the district superintendent. I taught for 29 years in the SJED and was a high school science teacher (physics, chemistry, AP Physics, Physics, and geology) and also the Education Association president and contract negotiator. During that time I served under 13 principals and 7 superintendents. In both categories, Mr. Enoch was the best. <br />As a principal, he always backed his staff, never chewed them out in front of parents or students. If he didn’t agree with what you did, you were told in private and if it was important, you were told to change your ways. I found him fair and professional. You could disagree and it was never personal. As the union rep who usually went into the administrators office with a complaint to discuss I appreciated his attitude. Many other administrators seemed to prefer the “shoot the messenger” approach. <br />After only a year as principal, Mr. Enoch applied for the superintendent position when it became open. He was hired and this was his first time at the helm of a district. The business manager was Terry Coulter who curried a reputation as an innovative and forward-looking manager and for some years, he was able to deliver on his promises. I dealt with Mr. Coulter in negotiations and have never worked with a more opaque or confusing individual on finances. Ask for an explanation on any funding issue and 30 minutes later, I would leave his office with me head spinning. Understand that state financing is Byzantine at best and add an explanation not meant to clarify and you can see what we were up against. <br />Mr. Enoch’s last year in the district, the board decided to purchase land and build an office against Mr. Enoch’s advice. That spring, Mr. Enoch was recruited by an Eastern WA school district and he accepted the job. The next year, enrollment dropped and because of Mr. Coulter’s shell game, there were inadequate reserves. Many schools are tripped by this as they all want to satisfy needs and no one ever can predict the next year accurately enough when budgets are thin. Mr. Enoch didn’t see this coming. Maybe an experienced superintendent with years dealing with Washington state’s complex funding might have seen this but given Mr. Coulters unwillingness or in ability to offer clear explanations, I doubt it. <br />In closing, I would like to say that I found Steve Enoch to be a straight shooter who not only backed his teachers but who also asked that they improve. He was willing to give them both tools and support to do this. It was not just empty rhetoric. He will not be politically correct, he will not suffer fools and charlatans gently. Mr. Enoch will listen to all sides but he will let you know what he thinks. He will be fair. He will also ask that improvements be made and not accept “good enough” as an outcome. Looking at the past few years history in Seattle, I think that he is just what the district needs"StopTFAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08605108615707039386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29241074524297798962012-04-25T19:43:50.946-07:002012-04-25T19:43:50.946-07:00--enough already: thanks for reminding us of that...--enough already: thanks for reminding us of that quote. There are a number of things that I like about Enoch, but that is definitely an unflattering review of his performance from one person. And not just "any person." It definitely bears following up on, as I don't know anything about Tom Alves, the issues they were trying to negotiate, the reasonableness/unreasonableness of any of the positions, who hired the chief financial officer, whether his comment on the financial guy was fair, etc. <br /><br />I also wonder -- what would the union reps here say about MGJ, or Dr. E, and what credibility would they have if they spoke. I have little to no faith in the work they have done representing their constituency or its issues. (Watching the SEA at work reminds me you don't have to love unions to love teachers -- as they are not the same thing at all -- and yes, I know teachers vote for them, we just watched it happen, and I STILL don't think they are the same thing -- at all). The SEA and the WEA seem to let things like tying teacher scores to flawed tests go by -- and then spend all their time going nuts over some pension change for some subgroup of teachers. They were AWOL over TfA and the cert issue -- others did ALL the push back on that. I cannot see that they have done anything to address what are rumored to be incredibly bogus, unachievable PIPs that have forced good, senior teachers out. They were pretty unhelpful to the Lowell SLPs in that debacle of mismanagement. Maybe SEA is the only dysfunctional union around -- but at this point, I would want not only to look into the truth of Mr. Alves statements, but also the credibility of Mr. Alves and the degree of support he has from his teachers (because I sure don't hear anything on this blog from teachers that indicates they put much faith or credibility into the SEA, or that the SEA or the WEA speak accurately for them before the legislature).<br /><br />All that said -- Mr. Alves speaks with the weight of the authority of his position. I wonder what the union folks in California think of his work with them? And -- I wonder what the Salem teachers union (or, for that matter, the Teachers in Seattle) think of Dr. Husk's management style and decisions?Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6937544054943370492012-04-25T18:47:50.747-07:002012-04-25T18:47:50.747-07:00Yes, well I'm ever the optimist (NOT). I beli...Yes, well I'm ever the optimist (NOT). I believe (along with some others with lots of SPS under our belts *urp*) that ST would pick the negative quote versus PLENTY of positive information they could have provided (see burb's comments in ST).StopTFAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08605108615707039386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54703023894299905532012-04-25T18:41:32.774-07:002012-04-25T18:41:32.774-07:00This is the quote I was referring to (from the 4/2...This is the quote I was referring to (from the 4/24 Long article):<br /><br />The San Juan Teachers Association has a different view. Tom Alves, executive director of the union, called Enoch's style "very autocratic and oversimplistic and antiquated." During negotiations, Enoch was unwilling to negotiate collaboratively, Alves said. He said he believes the district's finances improved because of the work of the chief financial officer.<br /><br />"We were very excited about doing a search for a new superintendent," Alves said.<br /><br />--enough alreadyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19814577915024761742012-04-25T18:29:21.500-07:002012-04-25T18:29:21.500-07:00enough already,
Did you see this union director&#...enough already,<br /><br />Did you see this union director's observation (only in the ST comments section, of course):<br /><br />"I remember the business manager as the one responsible for the San Juan debacle, not Mr. Enoch. My take is that if Seattle wants a straight shooter who will tell it like it is and work to make meaningful change, Enoch would be a great choice. OTOH, if they want a politically correct boot licker, look elsewhere. I was a full time teacher and also the Union president (San Juan Ed Association) all the years Mr. Enoch was here. I sometimes found him to be brusque as stated in the article but I also found him to be very professional and fair. You could disagree with him and it was never personal. I can't say that for some other administrators I've worked with. Friday Harbor was Mr. Enoch's first go as a district superintendent, he was hired as the high school principal, and moved up when the superintendent job opened after only one year as principal. I feel that he did an excellent job for the district."<br /><br />Seriously, I would take "authentic" over edu-speak and mindless babble anyday. Lessee what Husk will say. already she seems to believe in the MGJ mode of "community engagement".StopTFAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08605108615707039386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90458059487155037002012-04-25T18:26:20.402-07:002012-04-25T18:26:20.402-07:00Jan & Jack - I had to go read the rosenthal pi...Jan & Jack - I had to go read the rosenthal piece on enoch, published at 2:35, to see what you were talking about. <br /><br />the profile piece published by katherine long, which I had skimmed while chowing down insta-grub after work - I had the feeling that I'd be in for another bunch of years of 22 Strategic Goals ... or 22 new 5 year plans ...? <br /><br />are we at war with Eastasia or Eurasia ?? <br /><br />isn't it kind of cool, the different reporting and the different perspectives? <br /><br />at this point, I'm feeling that maybe it would be best if <br /><br />EnochWentFishingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15555466648979875982012-04-25T18:22:36.067-07:002012-04-25T18:22:36.067-07:00Concerning K-8s and mushroom middle school popular...Concerning K-8s and mushroom middle school popularity -<br /><br />If there are only 3 comprehensive middle schools in North Seattle, and all are currently over-enrolled (with more on the way), then yes, K-8s like Salmon Bay and Jane Addams will start to look more apealing to prospective middle school parents, because they are smaller overall, and able to cap enrollment.<br /><br />Concerning the comparison of option school wait lists with those of attendance area schools -<br /><br />If I understand the process correctly, it's like comparing apples to oranges. They are enrolled completely differently. <br /><br />Option schools can cap their enrollment. They also have geozones. In most cases, the geozones are smaller than attendance areas. I would bet that most of the kids on the wait lists of option schools live outside the geozone.<br /><br />Attendance area schools cannot wait list anyone who lives within the attendance area. They have to accomodate all who apply from within the attendance area. They could be over-enrolled at a grade level, but it might not generate a wait list. The school might be very, very popular with neighborhood families, but, in theory, only kids living outside of the attendance area would be put on the wait list. <br /><br />So, under the NSAP, I don't think that wait lists are necessarily a good way to compare the popularity of option schools-vs-attendance area schools.<br /><br />-North End MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47304570749916252012-04-25T18:19:39.337-07:002012-04-25T18:19:39.337-07:00Stop TFA,
What about the union director's com...Stop TFA,<br /><br />What about the union director's comments? That needs to be cleared up.<br /><br />Your take on the finances makes a lot of sense. As far as the word "authentic" goes, I'm from the get real side of the tracks, nd tend to get impatient with that kind of talk.<br /><br />Your info is invaluable. Thanks.<br /><br />--enough alreadyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75403945821959209482012-04-25T18:04:58.053-07:002012-04-25T18:04:58.053-07:00enough already,
I suppose he could've said &q...enough already,<br /><br />I suppose he could've said "what you see is what you get". It's all the same idea. He's not going to give some slick non-answer to a serious question.<br /><br />On the financials, I'm gonna go with the premise of here's a dude who's a newly promoted principal, whose financial guy is saying everything's okie-dokie - come to find out, whoops, not so much. Cripes that been the story at JSCEE for how long!? And we is big city folk!<br /><br />I've delved into his record at San Ramon Valley and I believe he is authentic.StopTFAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08605108615707039386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27293315707764086412012-04-25T17:15:58.202-07:002012-04-25T17:15:58.202-07:00Jan (@4.30) saved me fifteen or twenty minutes by ...Jan (@4.30) saved me fifteen or twenty minutes by saying exactly what I was going to say here after reading the ST piece on Enoch. I like Banda, and I can understand why some might lean toward him, but I think that Enoch is the guy we need here and now to get us on the right track.Jack Whelannoreply@blogger.com