tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post6069451602192810613..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Next Week, We'll KnowMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46592181461241948302011-11-04T14:30:12.217-07:002011-11-04T14:30:12.217-07:00Jan, for more on the TFA certification debacle se...Jan, for more on the TFA certification debacle see<br /><a href="http://saveseattleschools.blogspot.com/2011/11/friday-open-thread.html" rel="nofollow">OPEN</a> thread Friday.. comment #7.<br /><br />So is anyone actually Supervising the actions of the Superintendent?<br /><br />You can find the actual appeal filing by Joy Anderson in a link on <a href="http://www.school-truth.com/TFA-appeal.html" rel="nofollow">this webpage</a>.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81628346740772071862011-11-04T14:21:19.699-07:002011-11-04T14:21:19.699-07:00Jan,
#1 on New Tech Network contract votes.
Fir...Jan,<br /><br />#1 on New Tech Network contract votes. <br /> First time 4-2 (DeBell absent)<br />This one had the Four incumbents giving their rationale for voting to approve.<br />First meeting in February 2010.<br /><br />Second Time (4-3) with DeBell making great statement in opposition.<br />--------------------<br /><br />#2 From Susan Wilson OSPI Public Records officer:<br /><br />I have verified with the Certification Office and, as of November 1, 2011, the following individuals <b><i>have not made application for and do not hold conditional certificates</i></b>.<br /><br />· Kenneth Maldonado <br />· Desiree Marie Robinette<br />· Daniel A. Calderon <br />----------<br /><br />KM is at South Shore<br />DR is at Aki Kurose<br />DC is at RBHSdan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18345564425893130632011-11-04T01:00:39.922-07:002011-11-04T01:00:39.922-07:00Dan said (on TfA): Enfield hasn't even made th...Dan said (on TfA): Enfield hasn't even made the requests for the last three "Board Authorized" conditional certs.<br /><br />Dan -- I am not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate? Are you saying that TfA folks are teaching, and Dr. E has not brought their names to the board and asked that the Board request a conditional cert? Or that the Board passed the resolution, but the request for the cert has not been made to the State? Who are the three teachers involved? <br /><br />My understanding was that the whole reason this TfA thing ever got to the full Board is that their approval is required to request the cert, and the cert is required in order to hire them (at least permanently) -- but the way it was set up, it seemed pretty form over substance. Leaving out the degree to which the system they devised does (or does not) comply with the actual law, what are they not doing?<br /><br />As for the NTN contract, is it true that it was a 4/3 vote, and that the four incumbents up for election were the four 'yes' votes? (I went looking for the videos, but because it was voted on, and then revoted, I had a hard time locating the one I needed. If that is the case, I had forgotten (if I ever knew) it.Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32912375121502368522011-11-03T21:05:56.394-07:002011-11-03T21:05:56.394-07:00Tom Brokaw talks about the failure of meaningful d...<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Brokaw" rel="nofollow">Tom Brokaw</a> talks about the failure of meaningful dialog between political party politicians in WA DC and says it has never been this bad.<br /><br />When it comes to the four directors seeking reelection I find the same complete failure of meaningful communication on Education Reform topics ... <br /><br />Every Ed Reform action received approval regardless of the facts presented. -- Another big bobble-headed YES.<br /><br />Now the Directors are stuck with TFA actions that failed to follow WAC 181-79A-231 and Enfield hasn't even made the requests for the last three "Board Authorized" conditional certs.<br /><br />The expensive Cleveland NTN STEM option school in its first year of operation GREATLY expanded achievement gaps for Black students.<br /><br />The Cleveland mess was all predicted in the data that Carr, Maier, Martin-Morris, and Sundquist chose to ignore in casting the only four votes for the $800,000 NTN contract.<br /><br />The polarization in Seattle Ed circles is between the Ed Reformites (well funded by BIG BUCKsters) and the folks that actually intelligently apply the relevant data. ... It is like trying to have a discussion with a Steam Roller .. the ED REFORM Steam Roller.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14547844969648672322011-11-03T20:43:37.290-07:002011-11-03T20:43:37.290-07:00A fact based dialog about education with Ms. Varne...A fact based dialog about education with Ms. Varner. So why hasn't it happened?<br /><br />The Times sports reporters Jerry Brewer and Steve Kelley could do a fact filled dialog on many sports topics immediately, because they are acquainted with a great many facts.<br /><br />It is not just Ms. Varner that avoids the facts. Several school directors have avoided a discussion of the facts on many issues.<br /><br />What is going on with Teach for America corps members conditional certs at the moment?<br /><br />What is happening at Cleveland? The Board dumped major money into Cleveland and has in the fist year of CHS NTN STEM widened achievement gaps for Low Income students and Black students. So now a waiver from 150 hours per credit is requested. The rewritten action report still misses the WAC required marks.<br /><br />OH how I long for the equivalent of Jerry Brewer and Steve Kelley rather than Ms. Varner.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54022882528618767292011-11-03T19:25:00.827-07:002011-11-03T19:25:00.827-07:00I only expect Ms Varner to respond and engage beca...I only expect Ms Varner to respond and engage because she said that she would. Am I to presume that she is a liar?<br /><br />I'm sorry if you think my comments that follow her columns constitute a harangue. I do try to remain civil and, when possible, courteous.<br /><br />Which words struck you as particularly abusive?<br /><br />I am often asked questions in that context - and this one. I generally answer them. I would not consider it strange. What questions do you have?<br /><br />To be clear, I don't lose respect for Ms Varner because her view differs from mine; I lose respect for her when she fails to meet the commitments she made and when she lacks the courage of her convictions. She cannot provide any real facts, data, or rationale to support her view. That's troubling.<br /><br />I am the one here who is willing to consider another position. I am asking her - begging her really - to make her case. She is the one who is refusing to have an open mind and engage.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56317918495591925202011-11-03T17:25:15.748-07:002011-11-03T17:25:15.748-07:00Hi Murky,
I'm glad you're speaking up. W...Hi Murky,<br /><br />I'm glad you're speaking up. We may actually know each other. I'm going to venture that I understand why you're voting the way you are. I just hope you'll keep popping off every now and then after election day. No flamin' here.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20634243280789395382011-11-03T15:42:25.349-07:002011-11-03T15:42:25.349-07:00Well Murky, why would Lynn have a dialogue? Becau...Well Murky, why would Lynn have a dialogue? Because she said she would.<br /><br />From lkv October 26, 2011 1:46 pm post in the ST comments section of the Silas Potter ed cetera blog - "As I noted a couple of hours ago, I have a dealine to fulfill if my editorial is to appear in tomorrow's paper. As I noted then, I plan to answer your questions after my deadline. I can answer quick questions anytime, but your questions require time that I am devoting right now to my editorial. thanks, Lynne"<br /><br />OompahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66838313123737504562011-11-03T14:34:31.708-07:002011-11-03T14:34:31.708-07:00I chose not to blanket vote. I looked at each cand...I chose not to blanket vote. I looked at each candidate as an individual NOT as a challenger VS an incumbent, and in the end I decided to support two challengers and two incumbents. I posted on a recent thread (using a different moniker) why I voted for who I did, after which I was thoroughly flamed and subjected to the exhausting ranting about why I was so wrong. Why would anyone go back for a second dose of that? I totally understand why Lynn Varner will not have any dialogue with Charlie, or you, Melissa. Why would she? It's pretty pointless. As you say, it is your blog and you are entitled to run it how you wish, but if you want input from people with different POV's (like Lynn Varner) then you have to be respectful and welcoming to them. If you don't want to do that that's fine, it's your blog, but just understand that those folks will not want to engage you - and don't whine about it when they dis you.<br /><br />murky waterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45222734751119921022011-11-03T14:13:34.640-07:002011-11-03T14:13:34.640-07:00Murky, I was trying to be as "just the facts&...Murky, I was trying to be as "just the facts" as I could on that Concise piece. I didn't mention that about CPPS and Kate because I didn't know about it. I didn't mention the Rooselvelt issue because (1) it was pretty out there and (2) I thought what she did was right. <br /><br />But okay.<br /><br />I do see SGirl's point, though. Charlie and I get attacked for our perceived attacks and yet, I wait for someone to tell me why they want to vote for the incumbents.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83337660219985740642011-11-03T14:04:06.816-07:002011-11-03T14:04:06.816-07:00Lynne's latest tweets (what pearls of wisdom):...Lynne's latest tweets (what pearls of wisdom):<br /><br />"@lkvarner <br />#Microsoft & #Boeing execs' $ n School Board races isn't troubling. How state's largest district fares impacts Seattle & Puget Sound region<br /> <br />These r after all the same companies underwriting important academic efforts. They get their responsibility to the community & education.<br /><br />Hard to attract top-tier aerospace and high tech workers if nearest schools r in shambles. Hence philanthropy AND corporate responsibilty."<br /><br />Wow! She's dialoguing, she's dialoguing! But on Twitter? won't ST give her anymore space on its editorial page. Do you think its a bit much...?<br /><br />WV: WOOROmirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9828292684107790162011-11-03T13:08:49.380-07:002011-11-03T13:08:49.380-07:00Murky Water...
Melissa's post was about WHY yo...Murky Water...<br />Melissa's post was about WHY your SHOULD vote for the challengers. Kate's mishaps have been discussed on this blog at great length by many other posters. Anyone who was on the fence or a first-timer could easily search around this blog to find opposing views. I had to think long and hard about Sherry Carr because of good things people have written about her on this blog.<br /><br />This blog does not have the readership nor clout with the average Seattleite of the Seattle Times. It's a blog as LV's editorial was her opinion. That Melissa reviewed that opinion and gave her comments here is her right. Don't like it, don't read it.<br /><br />But again, as others have asked you and other complainers about content here...what are YOUR reasons for supporting the incumbents? Stop complaining about Melissa & Charlie and start giving us YOUR opinion about the issues, not the bloggers. Maybe you'll convince someone to see your POV. But shooting the messenger won't solve anything.<br /><br />SolvayGirl (Blogger is being fussy about my password again)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4144845311727045972011-11-03T12:55:03.341-07:002011-11-03T12:55:03.341-07:00And you, Melissa? Do you not leave anything out in...And you, Melissa? Do you not leave anything out in your posts? I'd look at your recent post "A concise post about why you should vote for the challengers". While trying to convince everyone to vote for the challengers did you mention that Kate Martin was so outspoken and rude that she was banned from posting on the CPPS blog? Or that she had to be escorted out of Roosevelt by the police? <br /><br />You can have your story and you can stick to it, but remember, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.<br /><br />murky waterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50237884984302479602011-11-03T12:00:03.963-07:002011-11-03T12:00:03.963-07:00Mom of 4,
"...ginning up outrage"
wit...Mom of 4, <br /><br />"...ginning up outrage"<br /><br />with what Lynne writes, not much work for me. That I dissected her editorial, well, that's what we do. We dissected what she said in relation to what we see (in terms of what she left out). <br /><br />That we find her reasoning lacking is an opinion. Lynne can't even vote in this election so I think it's okay to tell her what we think of her reasoning. <br /><br />I don't (and have never) demanded anyone agreed with me. Never. <br /><br />Charlie has asked Lynne for responses because she actually has responded in the past. That is one thing I find interesting about comment sections and/or other groups' blogs. They rarely answer anything. At least here you can get a back-and-forth. I personally don't give a rat's ass if Lynne answers anything.<br /><br />At the end of the day, she is saying the incumbents have professional backgrounds and we need stability and continuity on the Board. <br /><br />That she leaves out their record in total and has not one good thing to say about the challengers, well, I would say that is leaving out a lot. <br /><br />That's my story and I'm sticking to it.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20374870132449492062011-11-03T11:53:49.503-07:002011-11-03T11:53:49.503-07:00I'd have a lot more respect for Lynne and Joni...I'd have a lot more respect for Lynne and Joni if they quit trying to be the Seattle Establishment's mini-beltway versions of "tut-tut" Cokie Roberts, feeling compelled to comment and chip in their two cents on issues they know very little about. <br /><br />Alas, a one newspaper town. WSDWGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79082532701189720302011-11-03T11:40:10.822-07:002011-11-03T11:40:10.822-07:00Murky? What in God's name are you advocating?...Murky? What in God's name are you advocating? That we stop pressing for accountability? Stop demaning people cite sources and state facts? Would you prefer people have a limited opportunity to write or speak (so form devours all substance)? That each side gets 60 worthless seconds to state their soundbites, and that's it? Are you serious?<br /><br />That people ask for others who opine to deliver hard facts, evidence, and truth is a hallmark of a free press and a free public, which I hope we still value and believe in. When did it become rude to challenge another's opinions, statements and hyperbole? <br /><br />I've disagreed vehemently with Charlie, MW, and others over the years, sometimes in head-banging fashion. And I think they and I gain tremendous respect for each other when we do so, even when we don't agree, because it shows we have passion and concern about the issues we write about. <br /><br />Frankly, I am amazed at the whining from people don't like it when things occasionally get heated, or can't demonstrate the guts to stand up for what they believe in. If you're not willing to take it on the chin for what you truly believe, then how sincere and valuable are your beliefs and positions?<br /><br />Sorry to disappoint, but I never understood this blog to exist for peoples entertainment, pleasure or convenience. The work will get difficult and dirty at times, like life. <br /><br />And how hard is it to scroll past comments you don't want to read? <br /><br />If you like the current board or administration, say so, and say why. Lead by example instead of being a chronic complainer. You might actually change minds. <br /><br />The proper response to speech you don't agree with is to drown it out with opposing speech. Not stifle or curb what people say, or how they say it. Jefferson and the founding fathers embraced that belief, and thank God. <br /><br />I really can't believe how much people complain about tone and tenor in a blogosphere where anyone can remain anonymous while engaging in substantive discussion. Have we forgotten sticks and stones will break my bones...? <br /><br />I will respect anyone's point of view if they have the cajones to back it up. I will never respect whiners and complainers who don't show the courage and conviction of those they whine about. Who would?<br /><br />WSDWGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82721677961851827142011-11-03T10:53:05.007-07:002011-11-03T10:53:05.007-07:00"Wackos, fanatics, and not taken seriously.&q..."Wackos, fanatics, and not taken seriously." Flea bites. But as for being shut out. Nope, I say they're hitting it out of the ballpark. That's why you're here commenting and I love it.<br /><br />"A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -JFK<br /><br />-voterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2957833661723903332011-11-03T10:02:30.372-07:002011-11-03T10:02:30.372-07:00Totally agree with momof4insps.....
You can disag...Totally agree with momof4insps.....<br /><br />You can disagree with someone, and say so, but that should be the end of it. It is not in your best interest to argue, continually badger people, repeat yourself, insult and be rude, no matter how right you think you are. Of course you can use these methods if you want to - that your right, just know that it makes you look like wackos and fanatics and you will not be taken seriously. And you will get shut out.<br /><br />Ms. Varner has shut you out, and honestly, I can't blame her one bit.<br /><br />Murky Wateranonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91591309399413642012011-11-03T09:42:56.155-07:002011-11-03T09:42:56.155-07:00and if someone demanded that coolpapa, westello, d...and if someone demanded that coolpapa, westello, dan dempsey, etc "answer" his or her question - wouldn't that seem like a strange expectation? and if that someone kept badgering, wouldn't you agree it's in coolpapa's, westello's, dan dempsey's rights to tune the someone out, not respond to the demands?<br /><br />i think sometimes as adults who have hand at work and in our families, we have a hard time when anyone tells us no, doesn't agree with our seemingly rock-solid arguments, or worse, doesn't even answer our emails! we do not like it!<br /><br />unfortunately, nowhere in an editorial writer's, principal's, district staff person's, or school board director's job description does it say they must respond to our every email or phone call - and most of the time, the more we harangue them, the less likely they will be to do so.<br /><br />but interestingly, once long ago, i called lynne varner wanting to give a different perspective on something she'd written about an SAO report, expecting to leave a msg - i was shocked when she picked up the phone and we had a real live conversation. maybe she still picks up the phone and that might work better - but probably not if we harangue her.mom of 4 in spsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53261548565906851642011-11-03T09:41:58.752-07:002011-11-03T09:41:58.752-07:00I find it hilarious that you are outraged at Ms. V...I find it hilarious that you are outraged at Ms. Varner because she does not share the same position as you do on who to support in the school board races - and she says so publicly. Is anyone that doesn't agree with you subject to this type of thrashing? <br /><br />And then, after the repeated thrashing, you expect her to engage you? Seriously? She'd be a fool to go there. <br /><br />Murky wateranonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59273676420840457052011-11-03T09:21:56.335-07:002011-11-03T09:21:56.335-07:00"could it just be concern over some pretty go..."could it just be concern over some pretty good challengers "<br /><br />Depends on what you consider pretty good challengers....<br /><br />Murky wateranonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53309245715514989202011-11-03T08:28:39.412-07:002011-11-03T08:28:39.412-07:00Well, guess we can just lie around, talk about the...Well, guess we can just lie around, talk about the weather, and scratch for fleas. Nah, that would be bad for ST's business and LV would be out of a job.<br />So here's to political discourse: learning to take offense, give offense, and yes... most certainly, duck!<br /><br />-voterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86942106838413374932011-11-03T07:52:38.106-07:002011-11-03T07:52:38.106-07:00One would think there would be less haranguing if ...One would think there would be less haranguing if Lynn and others would actually address the specifics in question. Typically, her answers are annoyingly vague, if she answers at all.Johnny Calcagnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12198948404356096884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88523244025603286532011-11-03T07:51:30.011-07:002011-11-03T07:51:30.011-07:00There is some quiet polling going on. Not the Matt...There is some quiet polling going on. Not the Matt Barreto-quality type poll, and not the Nate Silver type predictions, so there may be a huge margin of error.<br /><br />I'll link to the poll here, and hope that pro-incumbent and pro-challenger voters weigh in, so the poll numbers approach accuracy:<br /><a href="http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=4eb22007011eb0e4496235ab" rel="nofollow">EasyPolls.net: Seattle School Board candidates</a><br /><br />A Seattle School Board candidate sent the EasyPolls link to me in e-mail.Christinahttp://globeandmail.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55318605614293900002011-11-03T07:27:18.070-07:002011-11-03T07:27:18.070-07:00Lynne might better have used the word "cyber ...Lynne might better have used the word "cyber haranguers" - which to me more accurately (and less hyperbolically) describes the propensity of coolpapa, westello, dan dempsey and others to post repeated and lengthy comments to every thing she writes, ginning up outrage, demanding responses, basically demanding her to agree with them...<br /><br />(now ducks because I'm sure here it comes at me)mom of 4 in spsnoreply@blogger.com