tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post6095979678806766509..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: First Seattle Schools Bell Times Meeting Gets "Testy"Melissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger101125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81297242478988316692015-10-06T22:03:01.848-07:002015-10-06T22:03:01.848-07:00North-end Mom
Now is the chance if this is wrong ...North-end Mom<br /><br />Now is the chance if this is wrong for your high FRL I would run around like my hair was on fire communicating this with all your peers and the bldg admin.<br /><br />Best of luck<br /><br />-Do itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21643493875162150842015-10-06T22:00:05.604-07:002015-10-06T22:00:05.604-07:00Folks your ES kid will be a secondary student very...Folks your ES kid will be a secondary student very soon and it sucks with the early thing. And I am not talking about running kids to a program or asking a neighbor to help suck. I mean a vibrant child becomes withdrawn and having to talk to Dr's and such to figure things out. Not just us. A high percantages of kids.<br /><br />Tic toc; you just can't say for sure if that is your kid. Parenting is choosing your battles and in this case the battle is with SPS. They don't want to change anything as MW said. But again I think they have done a very good job on messaging this. Makes me wonder why? Or if they are just testing this for the next idea they want to push through. Wonder if this had anything to do with the strike and trying to trianglize opionion like Carl Rove used to do. Oh well. <br /><br />-Do itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48385382978454777502015-10-06T19:31:00.075-07:002015-10-06T19:31:00.075-07:00There may have been requests from some school &quo...There may have been requests from some school "buildings" to be placed in Tier 3, but I can say with certainty that this was not the case for all 20 of the schools placed in Tier 3. This was confirmed at last night's meeting at JAMS. <br /><br />- North-end Mom<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41815516013464409842015-10-06T10:15:17.631-07:002015-10-06T10:15:17.631-07:00Opps
That should have read:
Certain race is high ...Opps<br />That should have read: <br />Certain race is high % FRL is racial profiling. You may be responding to another thread but I don't think race matters in the conversation... I wonder why anyone would think it is.<br /><br />-Do itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72583803704780881362015-10-06T10:11:10.216-07:002015-10-06T10:11:10.216-07:00Noth-end Mom,
I got the info at one of the first ...Noth-end Mom,<br /><br />I got the info at one of the first meetings. Bldgs are correct as they asked the principals who then asked parents (I am not sure if this was done formally or not). <br /><br />BUT to be clear it came from the Bldgs. <br /><br />There was also a ton of distinction between the north and south's desire on this from the prior polls. I would guess that is why they are doing ES by ES so they get it right for most schools.<br /><br />Certain race + high % FRL is racial profiling. You may be responding to another thread but I don't think race matters in the conversation... I wonder why anyone would think it is.<br /><br /> <br /><br />-Do itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63548708011871294642015-10-06T03:22:41.951-07:002015-10-06T03:22:41.951-07:00@ Do it
I don't know where you get your info,...@ Do it<br /><br />I don't know where you get your info, but you are wrong. SPS did not actually hear from "those buildings" that they wanted 3rd Tier. At the JAMS Bell Time meeting, Pegi McEvoy explained that they heard from a few parents who gave feedback that they like having their high school kids dismissed before their elementary kids, because they could provide childcare. Then, using the racial demographics of those parents, SPS extrapolated that very minimal feedback into some bizarre rationalization that all schools with families in those racial demographic groups would prefer a late start. <br /><br />What percentage of students at any given elementary school, regardless of demographics, have siblings 4-10 years older (high school-aged) who don't have any after school obligations and who can get home in time (even by bus) to take care of their siblings? My personal experience from being a parent at a Title 1 elementary school is that there seem to be more younger sibs around, not older ones. Does this seem like a valid argument to throw ALL the families of 20 high FRL/ELL elementary schools "under the bus" so to speak? <br /><br />If there are schools that actually requested the late start (due to Team Read, etc...), then that may be a valid reason to place them in Tier 3. Making gross generalizations, based upon race is not appropriate. Isn't that called racial profiling?<br /><br />- North-end MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5040105836439667112015-10-05T18:34:00.010-07:002015-10-05T18:34:00.010-07:00High FRL % Starting later is because SPS heard fro...High FRL % Starting later is because SPS heard from those bldgs that the HS kids support the family with child care. <br /><br />-Do itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75695461842545445652015-10-05T15:35:06.339-07:002015-10-05T15:35:06.339-07:00@Steve,
Yes, I expect it could.
- North-end Mom@Steve,<br /><br />Yes, I expect it could.<br /><br />- North-end MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15608483439626245262015-10-05T15:11:08.397-07:002015-10-05T15:11:08.397-07:00Thank you North-end Mom. I have submitted this qu...Thank you North-end Mom. I have submitted this question to the bell time group, but I hope someone can ask this question at the Bell Time meeting. If there is not a compelling reason to move this large number of lower-income schools to Tier 3, I would suspect it could become a news story.<br /><br />- SteveStevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05105365816526108707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35648314193893227052015-10-05T15:00:36.257-07:002015-10-05T15:00:36.257-07:00@ Steve
According to the Team Read website, the o...@ Steve<br /><br />According to the Team Read website, the only Team Read school on your list of north-end schools proposed to be on Tier 3 is Olympic Hills. <br /><br />These are the 11 schools currently served by Team Read: <br /><br />Bailey Gatzert Elementary<br />Beacon Hill International Elementary<br />Broadview Thomson K-8<br />Concord International Elementary<br />Dunlap Elementary<br />Leschi Elementary<br />Lowell Elementary<br />Olympic Hills Elementary<br />Roxhill Elementary<br />Stevens Elementary<br />Van Asselt Elementary<br /><br />Of these, Broadview-Thomson, Dunlap, and Lowell will be in either Tier 2 or Tier 1 next year, which leaves 8 Team Read schools in the Tier 3 group, along with 12 non-Team Read schools. All 20 schools listed in Tier 3 for next year have at least 32% FRL (the range is 32% - 85%), and all but one have at least 14% ELL.<br /><br />I honestly don't understand the logic of why Tier 3 has been reserved for only higher FRL/ELL schools. The Team Read explanation doesn't seem strong-enough of a reason to me. <br /><br />- North-end Mom Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91020655655145424052015-10-05T12:49:50.007-07:002015-10-05T12:49:50.007-07:00I'm still confused about two things. Looking ...I'm still confused about two things. Looking just at the north-of-the-ship-canal elementary schools (the geography I'm most familiar with), 6 schools are proposed to have 9:40a start times:<br /><br />Arbor Heights<br />B.F. Day<br />Northgate<br />Olympic Hills<br />John Rogers<br />Sand Point<br /><br />According to the most recent <a href="http://sps.ss8.sharpschool.com/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/Migration/General/Title_I_Schools_2014-2015.pdf?sessionid=2a9503a60634db47c087b4fb878bb444" rel="nofollow">list</a> I could find from 2014/15, it's likely maybe 4 of these schools are receiving Title I funds. Another poster who served on the bell times task force said the reason lower-income schools were moved to the very late start was "to preserve Team Read, a widespread program where high school students tutor elementary students in reading, and an accommodation for communities (largely Title 1 school) that have expressed a need for their high school kids to pick up/take care of their younger children, which also requires elem to end later than high school. (If high school is at Tier 2, this means those elementaries need to be in Tier 3.)" Do the schools listed above participate in Team Read? Are there significant numbers of high school kids who pick up/take care of their younger children?<br /><br />My second question: the schedule showing the current and proposed times has an asterisk after the title, and the asterisk refers to this line at the bottom: "Includes mitigation for educational racial and equity concerns, Team Read and childcare." What, specifically, has the District said about "educational racial and equity concerns", and how does this mitigation support the 9:40 start time for these schools?<br /><br />(And by the way, at least two schools on this list - B.F. Day and Sand Point - may be slated to lose classroom teachers this week due to lower-than-expected enrollment. The list comes out today from the School District).<br /><br />SteveStevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05105365816526108707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39811611534886377092015-10-04T20:25:36.137-07:002015-10-04T20:25:36.137-07:00My K-5 is released in a time to bus and yet miss a...My K-5 is released in a time to bus and yet miss all of their soccer practices when you add bus time. I don't care if she makes these private school practices. But FYI privates know better. <br /><br />_Later Start Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21318096612706814682015-10-04T16:51:14.619-07:002015-10-04T16:51:14.619-07:00My teens would have strongly preferred starting mu...My teens would have strongly preferred starting much later & doing morning sports as HF suggests.<br /><br />-another sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30680098517161166962015-10-04T16:02:51.234-07:002015-10-04T16:02:51.234-07:00@ sleeper, don't forget they just agreed to ad...@ sleeper, don't forget they just agreed to add 20 minutes to the student day in 2 yrs. So a 4:10 dismissal next year is likely to only be a 4:30 dismissal the following year and beyond. That would mean school-based EC activities would need to be more like 4:45-6:45pm if based at school, or more like 6-7:30 or 8pm if community-based, to allow kids to get home from school and get ready first. Also, many activities really do take 2 hrs. For example, schools with no fields to use need to hoof it somewhere else for practice. If you have to assemble/check-in and then walk 20 min to your practice field, and another 20 minutes back for reassembly/checkout/lockers, that's about an hour. You think they are going to spend 1hr on transit for 30 min worth of practice? Then again, the fields they walk to often don't have lights, so maybe they'll just have to cancel outdoor teams or shift them to the AM. An 11am start would allow school teams to have 2 hrs in the AM, while it's light, and kids could still get plenty of sleep.<br /><br />@ getting ridiculous, I'm not being facetious. You're right--many EC activities are city-wide. In the same way they can't all shift to the morning to accommodate SPS, they also can't all shift later to accommodate the late SPS dismissal. Every EC activity my teens did when they were in middle school was something that also had time slots for high school students and/or adults. It's not unusual to serve MS students approx 4-6, HS 6-8, adults 8-10. Those providers can't just shift their programming all two hours later to accommodate a 2-hr later release. I don't particularly like the idea of an 11am start, but I can some potential benefits. I don't see how any of the activities my own kids did at that age would have been possible with the proposed MS schedule. It feels like there's a lot of wishful thinking about how everything will work out for MS age activities, but maybe others know best. Whatever y'all want.<br /><br />HFAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12369210396079009022015-10-04T14:37:18.865-07:002015-10-04T14:37:18.865-07:00Oh my goodness. The reason we're shifting sche...Oh my goodness. The reason we're shifting schedules is to allow for more sleep for teens, but you state, "shifting start times does not force students to sleep more." That's right! You can't force students to sleep more. It's not like car seat laws where you can force compliance with fines. The negative impacts of noncompliance with car seat laws are also potentially much greater. <br /><br />We can strive for reasonable start times, but we don't have the luxury of optimizing it for everyone. The proposed modified flip not only doesn't optimize the times for a large portion of students, but it actually makes it unreasonable for many students. <br /><br />Another thing to consider: after school activities are not limited to school based activities. City-wide activities that involve private and public school students are not simply going to shift to the morning to accommodate SPS. Nor can they simply shift elementary activities earlier, as many private elementary students are still in school. SPS students will simply not be able to participate in some activities, especially if the schedule is shifted 2 hours later for MS. I can't even tell if HF is being serious - an 11 am start? Please tell me you are just being facetious. <br /><br />-getting ridiculousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9475059934695619082015-10-04T14:24:28.526-07:002015-10-04T14:24:28.526-07:00Won't middle schools get out at 4:10? So activ...Won't middle schools get out at 4:10? So activities can run from 4:30-6, about when elementary activities run now, and more fields will be available because more elementary students will be using them more like 2:30-4. No problem.<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57318019143784635942015-10-04T13:56:43.385-07:002015-10-04T13:56:43.385-07:00Shifting start times does not decrease the hours o...Shifting start times does not decrease the hours outside of school for extra curricular activities. Sleeping more hours does decrease time available for ECs. Shifting start times does not force students to sleep more. It allows them to sleep more if their bodies are forcing them to. <br /><br />-need sleepAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27656427279846762772015-10-04T13:52:19.237-07:002015-10-04T13:52:19.237-07:00I'm surprised that so many people seem to disc...I'm surprised that so many people seem to discount the importance of extracurricular participation for tweens/teens. Everything I've read--and experienced with my own kids--is that such participation is incredibly important for healthy youth development. Extracurricular participation is associated with better grades, fewer behavior problems, less bullying, lower anxiety, increased self-esteem, positive attitude toward school, prosocial behavior, and so on. <br /><br />The problem with the proposed start schedule is that it puts middle school kids in kind of a "no man's land", where there's not really enough time to switch extracurriculars to before school, but there's also not enough time to do them after school. The lack of sleep MS are getting now IS NOT because most have too many extracurriculars. It's easy to go to school 6.5 hrs AND do 2hrs a day of other activities, still leaving plenty of time for homework, dinner and sleep. It's a timing issue. Teens have trouble getting to sleep early enough--even though they have plenty of free time available in the late evening. While it might make sense to just shift their extracurriculars to the evening--since they can't sleep anyway--the problem is that we have limited community capacity/resources to accommodate MS, HS and adult demand for activities in a significantly shortened evening window. That means some activities--those geared toward middle school students, since they'd have morning availability--would shift to the AM. However, to allow enough time for the activities, FRL breakfast at schools, travel between extracurriculars and school, etc., these activities would need to start EVEN EARLIER than school currently does. Many (most?) MS age activities need at least 1 1/2-2hrs. That means school-based activities would run say 7:15-9:15am, while private activities offsite would start at more like 7:00am. Since those kids can't go to sleep earlier (biology, remember?), that means even less sleep than now. <br /><br />If we're going to have these kids start late, we should have them start late enough that they can really flip their schedules without worsening the sleep issue. It seems reasonable for before-school activities to start at 8:30am. If they run until 10 or 10:30, school could start at 11am. Kids would be home in time for family dinner, and have plenty of time afterward for homework. Those who have late evening practices or events would likely skip AM extracurriculars, so they could sleep in to make up for the late night (but probably no later a bedtime than now, so they'd get extra sleep--just less wasted time before bed). Those who end up with AM activities would still be starting later than now, and they might also be able to get to sleep a little earlier since they'd have less going on after school. It would be a win-win for the kids, as opposed to the big tradeoff under the proposed plan. <br /><br />If we're going to go late, why not go "all in"?<br /><br />HFAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75255477907023059622015-10-04T13:10:06.371-07:002015-10-04T13:10:06.371-07:00Then it is a choice, not a schedule all students h...Then it is a choice, not a schedule all students have to participate in whether they like it or not.<br /><br />But separately I would certainly agree that if teens' schedules are so overpacked that creating a school schedule which allows a healthy amount of sleep means some of them cut down on some activities, that's fine. We will see what is more important after this, I suppose. If the extra sports/whatever practice is so important that it is worth missing healthy amounts of sleep over, everyone will still come in the morning. If fewer kids come to morning practice, then I think we had have learned that their sleep schedule is more important. Right now they don't get to choose.<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40112968466725973622015-10-04T12:18:56.781-07:002015-10-04T12:18:56.781-07:00Finally, changing start times does not leave less ...<i>Finally, changing start times does not leave less time for exercise. It leaves exactly the same amount of out-of-school time.</i><br /><br />If students keep the same bedtime as now, but add a later start (in order to increase sleep), there are fewer hours in the afternoon to do what they already do - homework, sports, jobs - things that happen in the afternoon, not before school. You can't simply shift it to the morning. And if you shift it to the morning, what's the point of the late start, exactly?<br /><br />?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30701871728091500052015-10-03T21:01:45.918-07:002015-10-03T21:01:45.918-07:00The later start times make a significant differenc...The later start times make a significant difference for teens both academically & health & safety. That must come first in district decision-making. Before team-read, before childcare, before sports, before convenience for adults. Those things should not be balanced on the backs of teens. It is unfair for us as a community to expect teens to take the hit because we don't want to fund after school care or reading specialists. Would we really rather see higher drop-out rates, tardy rates, suicide rates, car accident rates, drug use rates, discipline rates, crime rates, obesity rates, mental illness rates & sports injury rates, all associated with sleep deprivation in teens and improved with later start times. <br /><br />There was a lot of resistance to strapping kids into car seats too, but now we expect it to work & we make it work, even though it is very inconvenient. Because even though most kids survived car travel before car seats, it does make a difference in child safety.<br /><br />Finally, changing start times does not leave less time for exercise. It leaves exactly the same amount of out-of-school time. <br /><br />-Need sleep<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78795446596639633702015-10-03T13:58:40.371-07:002015-10-03T13:58:40.371-07:00I already have a child in high school, but cannot ...I already have a child in high school, but cannot support the plan as put forth. Sure, a later start would be nice for my high schooler, but not if it means middle schoolers starting at 9:40 and elementary starting either too early or too late. <br /><br />I am also hearing that this massive, disruptive change could only be for one year, only to be changed again the following year when the school day is extended. If so, wouldn't it make more sense to push for two tiers, to be implemented with the change in school schedules? <br /><br />Two tiers, or<br />-no changeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80697125992469039162015-10-03T12:01:03.344-07:002015-10-03T12:01:03.344-07:00Regarding how late is too late?- there was a 2010 ...Regarding how late is too late?- there was a 2010 study in England that moved HS starts to 10 am and pass rates for low income kids on the GCSE (hard final exam) went from 19% to To 43%- very dramatic results. (Sports are totally outside their school system, unlike the US)- but academically, later than 8:30 is better for secondary, both middle and high. <br /><br />The research on elementary times is much more limited. After 8 am is generally seen as good; some researchers see the general earlier wakes times for younger children as an indicator that near 8 am is good; others have seen a linear progression in start time benefits, with more benefits with later start times for young children too- the jury is out on what are optimal times for young children. There is no indication so far that there is a strong health or brain function hazard with any times, other than very early (7:30 or before.)<br /><br />ProSleep Momnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9534006446393863702015-10-03T11:32:54.237-07:002015-10-03T11:32:54.237-07:00Your reasons can be summed up as "Screw the s...Your reasons can be summed up as "Screw the science. I want what I assume will be best for my kids." You're going to regret that attitide when your children are in high school if this change isn't made.<br /><br />Change it!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78366179010346049842015-10-03T10:42:50.482-07:002015-10-03T10:42:50.482-07:00Your list provides many reasons why the modified f...Your list provides many reasons why the modified flip should not go forward.<br /><br />1. How is 9:40 healthy? What other middle schools start at such an absurdly late time? It's hard to know how late is too late. <br />2. We've already been on the 3rd tier schedule, and couldn't wait for middle school when there'd be time after school to have a life. With the latest proposal, some families will be in the 3rd tier K-8. Kind of lousy. <br />3. Perhaps the district should have thought about the impacts on Team Read and other after schools activities when they put forth the proposals. The "no change" option preserves Team Read.<br />4. The current schedule, or "no change" option, already allows older siblings to pick up and care for younger elementary siblings after school. <br />5. The majority of teens are not driving to school. The adult drivers in the morning and afternoon rush hours most likely pose a greater risk to children as they walk to and from school. This is especially true in the NW where we have less daylight in the winter months. I can't tell you the number of near misses we've had with <i>adult drivers</i> as we walk across a busy intersection to get to the bus stop. <br />6. With later release times, there is less time for exercise and outdoor activities after school. How, exactly, will that help with childhood obesity? Once again, living in NW.<br /><br />-no changeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com