tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post6205164481593663526..comments2024-03-18T16:51:10.406-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Updates from Garfield Teacher Action Against MAPMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25480379871508974522013-01-14T14:25:23.314-08:002013-01-14T14:25:23.314-08:00The MAP didn't replace the WASL. The MSP did. ...The MAP didn't replace the WASL. The MSP did. The MAP test is an additional district mandated test. Garfield teachers arent' boycotting any number of other tests currently being administered (MSP, EOC, HSPE). <br /><br />Also Question for Mirmac1 and Suep:<br /><br />What kind of push back did you receive when trying to opt your kids out of MAP? My daughter is a 9th grader at Franklin and took the Reading portion last week. I sent a letter today but it was too late - she just texted me that she got called out of class to do the math portion this afternoon. But she was aware of my wishes as we discussed this a lot over the weekend and tried to ask the proctor about opting out and got some major attitude back. So curious to hear from parents who have been successful in this. <br /><br />Thanks!<br />CW - SPS ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38025844628060038922013-01-14T14:15:43.133-08:002013-01-14T14:15:43.133-08:00Coming to the party a little late, but I'm rat...Coming to the party a little late, but I'm rather surprised at the volume of negativity that MAP is all bad/awful.<br /><br />So, I'd ask instead if not MAP, then what? People kvetched about the WASL endlessly too. Or are most of you advocating absolutely no standardized testing of any kind?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52499762168257168862013-01-14T08:47:48.256-08:002013-01-14T08:47:48.256-08:00What I have never understood is how the MAP test b...What I have never understood is how the MAP test became a tool for teacher evaluation when it only measures reading and math. <br /><br />How are science, PE, social studies, music, art, spanish teachers evaluated in their contract?<br /><br />How are high school teachers beyond 9th grade evaluated with MAPS is not given in these grades?Po3noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72021361191542730652013-01-13T17:49:13.105-08:002013-01-13T17:49:13.105-08:00I'd like to voice my support for the Garfield ...I'd like to voice my support for the Garfield teachers as well. It's great to see teachers standing together against things like this that do more harm than good for our students. <br /><br />I wrote a longer piece about this on my blog: http://www.edu-truth.com/2013/01/in-support-of-garfield-boycott.html<br /><br />(To help remind who I am, I'm the Dan Magill who wrote the piece in the Times last Feb about the meddlers, which got a lot of positive feedback from teachers)Dan Magillhttp://www.edu-truth.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88555951367780726582013-01-13T10:19:42.309-08:002013-01-13T10:19:42.309-08:00The Garfield Stand and the Common Core: Will They ...<a href="http://undergroundparent.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-garfield-stand-and-common-core-will.html" rel="nofollow">The Garfield Stand and the Common Core: Will They Both Come to a School Near You?</a><br /><br />Individual teachers may not be comfortable or may even be fearful of speaking out on these issues but when they realize other colleagues have similar views and concerns, collectively they may take a stand as we see at Garfield. dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63160892417043227312013-01-13T10:11:18.844-08:002013-01-13T10:11:18.844-08:00I don't mind the MAP and I do find the trends ...I don't mind the MAP and I do find the trends useful as a parent and a teacher. I also like the nationally normed aspect of it unlike the MSP and EOC tests. <br /><br />As far as other cheaper tests, we could go back to the paper and pencil ITBS (Iowa Test of Basic Skills) which the district previously used about 8 years ago.Linh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18639239617830664882013-01-12T18:20:11.926-08:002013-01-12T18:20:11.926-08:00There are many cheaper and better tests; MAP is no...There are many cheaper and better tests; MAP is not the be all and we can do better.<br />Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63439588863269210222013-01-12T15:29:43.377-08:002013-01-12T15:29:43.377-08:00Re-posting the previous post with no name:
"W...Re-posting the previous post with no name:<br />"When are the elementary schools going to stand in solidarity with Garfield?<br /><br />1/12/13 1:04 PM"<br /><br />And how about the other high schools? Or middle schools?<br />One school is not enoughAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-51775858582203835382013-01-12T13:46:05.922-08:002013-01-12T13:46:05.922-08:00I think MAP is reasonably useful for elementary, o...I think MAP is reasonably useful for elementary, once you have a handful of scores & see trends. But I'm unhappy that the teachers of my kid's grade level decided to go for the fall test. 3x a year is ridiculous. I don't understand why 1st grade teachers would want to do that. What's the motivation? We are a high scoring school, FYI. <br /><br />Another NE momAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91443801841504471882013-01-12T13:35:49.688-08:002013-01-12T13:35:49.688-08:00It's not the test; it's the be-all-and-end...It's not the test; it's the be-all-and-end-all test/data obsession that's the problem. Scores become like "numbers" to a salesman: Hit them, or you're out. <br /><br />Watch the Frontline piece on Michelle Rhee and see how she myopically focused on test scores to undermine career teachers and quantify education into a widget-based commodity. She then claimed outrageous results which turned out to be, well, false. She now hauls in 50k per speech, flies first class, and stays only in 5 star hotels. So, the tests sure were great for her, weren't they? <br /><br />To understand where we are, one must go back to the beginning of NCLB and see how, by design, standardized testing was the tool by which public education would be privatized, after breaking unions, purging teachers, and declaring all public schools "failing schools."<br /><br />To those "conspiracy nuts" who believe Gates, and his ilk are deeply involved in it, I advise you to do some simple googling, which will reveal that the conspiracy is far wider than Gates and Broad. It also involves the Waltons, many hedge fund managers, the Koch brothers, the founders of the GAP and Lands End (who profit handsomely from school unforms), and many supposed Democrats who march hand-in-hand, stride-for-stride with Right Wingers to the 1 Trillion dollar feeding trough that is U.S. Public Education. <br /><br />Is it a conspiracy? Hell yes it is! Bigger than you can imagine, and the Garfield Teachers just punched it in the nose. <br /><br />Now watch the anti-union thugs go nuts decrying their "insubordination" and scream "fire them all" or "vouchers" etc., etc. WSDWG Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23220540684884453022013-01-12T13:19:23.172-08:002013-01-12T13:19:23.172-08:00I think that there is difference in the students&#...I think that there is difference in the students' attitude about MAP in elementary vs. middle & high school. I have proctored in middle school & I see significant numbers of students just clicking through the exam without even reading the questions. What does it matter to them? <br /><br />In high school many students only take the reading MAP. (Because they are not in a typical grade level math class.) So teachers of the 5 other subjects get no information from it at all. And the language arts teachers only get data on their 9th graders.Proctornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20712177333035617752013-01-12T13:04:43.094-08:002013-01-12T13:04:43.094-08:00When are the elementary schools going to stand in ...When are the elementary schools going to stand in solidarity with Garfield?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14306067904670713382013-01-11T20:37:04.194-08:002013-01-11T20:37:04.194-08:00Wow! Quite a bevy of negative opinions. I agree ...Wow! Quite a bevy of negative opinions. I agree that the MAP should not be used for teacher evals nor for program placement. <br /><br />I do think it is valuable for providing some information about children's base of knowledge. KBF makes good points but we do know what the test consists of - at least at elementary - because an itemization of targeted data is available. It can be downloaded by any teacher.<br /><br />I find the test helpful. As long as it is regarded as one more tool - and, yes, fully supported financially, I'm okay with it. Twice a year is enough. It takes my kids an hour and a half two times a year. That's it. Fortunately, we have a complete computer lab and lots of helpful parents. If parents aren't available, District personnel should be. <br /><br />And it is not foolproof. Kids having a bad day will not do well. That's absolutely true.<br /><br />Finally, it has changed/expanded/focused (yes, all three!) my base of teaching considerably. I'm more targeted in what I teach. That can't be all bad. <br /><br />Some bad and some good. But I'm not nearly so reactive as many teachers seem to be.nnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84999743436456920702013-01-11T19:31:16.742-08:002013-01-11T19:31:16.742-08:00Just sayin' is right, any conversation about M...Just sayin' is right, any conversation about MAP must recognize that it is now deeply embedded in the SEA contract in order to generate teacher ratings which call for two test points. MAP is the only K-11 measure they've got right now, so this means there are two scores only for those grades with MSP. All the effort right now has been going into finding another K-12 measure, and it would be a huge setback to lose MAP because then they would have to find TWO more tests. I don't want to go all conspiracy on Teach, but until the Alliance and the state and the Feds (TIF) lighten up on their fanatic drive to tie teacher evaluation to test scores, we are going to be stuck with this insanity. Other districts are developing other ways to show student growth that honor instruction and teacher professionalism. Let's go Seattle.<br /><br />EmileAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33741357868902798942013-01-11T19:28:28.351-08:002013-01-11T19:28:28.351-08:00Elementary students who take the MAP 3x/year spend...Elementary students who take the MAP 3x/year spend a good (or should I say bad) part of at least 12 days taking the test. <br /><br />mapiscrap Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81263775635093651252013-01-11T14:27:24.222-08:002013-01-11T14:27:24.222-08:00Just posted this on one of the previous posts on t...Just posted this on one of the previous posts on this topic -- there is a Change.org petition going around now. No FB required to sign. <br /><br /><br />http://www.change.org/petitions/seattle-public-schools-support-garfield-high-school-teachers-refusing-to-administer-the-map<br /><br />CWright, Parent of a SPS 9th graderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37197845306111664792013-01-11T12:47:53.940-08:002013-01-11T12:47:53.940-08:00"MAP scores were an eye opener for the teache..."MAP scores were an eye opener for the teacher and convinced us to get the child tested for AL."<br /><br />Few people seem to know or care that MAP also screens qualified or potentially qualified students out. Students with disabilities very typically wind up showing whether/how they can take a test even when their cognitive capabilities are very high. Talk about falling through the cracks. The MAP is constantly misused. <br /><br />reader Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58154182553692449592013-01-11T12:13:31.151-08:002013-01-11T12:13:31.151-08:00Keep MAP to 1x a year and don't test K-2. I&#...Keep MAP to 1x a year and don't test K-2. I'll will say though for one of my children, MAP scores were an eye opener for the teacher and convinced us to get the child tested for AL. Sometimes you need the hard number to convice people. The state's exams test for minimum competency and MAP tests for achievement potential. If it comes down to cost effectiveness and if MAP isn't up to snuff, then let it go. Unfortunately with common core and all the asinine testing that comes with it, we're still stuck with endless standardized testing.<br /><br />another POVAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46440561109554440082013-01-11T12:04:26.071-08:002013-01-11T12:04:26.071-08:00does anyone have a petition started to suppport th...does anyone have a petition started to suppport the Garfield teachers? I don't have facebook and can't sign the page witout it.<br /><br />-wswsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69955282208045872822013-01-11T12:01:07.834-08:002013-01-11T12:01:07.834-08:00Js, the question, though, is money.
We have lim...Js, the question, though, is money. <br /><br />We have limited dollars and if the return on MAP is not better data that both parents and teachers can use AND the test results are aligned with what is being taught in the classroom, then we are not getting our money's worth.<br />Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21530775017972709552013-01-11T11:30:51.798-08:002013-01-11T11:30:51.798-08:00Forgive me, but I don't think all teachers kno...Forgive me, but I don't think all teachers know their students reading level when it is five grade levels above standard or when a 6th grader is ready to skip into Algebra 1. The two things to be avoided are moving a kid ahead and having her struggle or fail, or , conversely, missing the opportunity to move a kid into an appropriately challenging class. Yes, other tools are needed; teacher input and parental input -and these are in fact used. But to discount MAP as a tool, however imperfect, is shortsighted. <br /> <br />JsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11831825140420528892013-01-11T11:24:04.554-08:002013-01-11T11:24:04.554-08:00How can a computerized test tell you a student’s r...How can a computerized test tell you a student’s reading level? The only way to asses a child’s reading level (k-5 specifically) is by listening to them read. Using MAP to place kids in APP (and before its funding dried up, summer school) is nuts, for K-1 kids and students with limited computer access they are really being tested on how well they can use a computer. <br />-Abby GAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85350795683061148912013-01-11T09:48:18.623-08:002013-01-11T09:48:18.623-08:00"You just go until there's a barking dog ..."You just go until there's a barking dog at the end" - wow that is priceless ;o) - my kid doesn't go to SPS but I would for certain opt her out if she did - she's prone to test anxiety already, and I can only imagine what this behemoth would do to her self esteem. <br /><br />Good for Garfield and I do hope other schools join in - there are clearly more effective and efficient ways of achieving the alleged goals of MAP, just based on the teacher/parent feedback of this and other recent threads.Someonenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5026377169616539412013-01-11T09:43:26.097-08:002013-01-11T09:43:26.097-08:00You can opt out of the MAP by sending a letter (em...You can opt out of the MAP by sending a letter (email) to your school principal at the beginning of the year. Some schools require a repeat reminder before every MAP test session (ie. 2-3 times a year).<br /><br />It's a good idea to CC your letter to the school librarian, or whoever oversees the administration of the MAP in your building, and all of your children's teachers, so they do not to send him/her to the test. You can request that your child be allowed to read quietly or do homework instead.<br /><br />Re: Dan's comments about Gates and Goodloe-Johnson. The fact is, the Gates Foundation did help pay for MAP and has supported the discredited concept of "merit pay" and tying teacher "effectiveness" (nebulous, meaningless word) to standardized student test scores. Gates also helped underwrite Goodloe-Johnson's "Strategic Plan" and bankrolls LEV and the Alliance for Ed, which also push the very narrow "teacher effectiveness = increased student test scores" mindset.<br />Without the designated money to pay for MAP that wealthy corporate ed reformers like Gates & Broad have brought, it is less likely our district would have the MAP. So Dan's comments are relevant to the discussion in that significant respect.<br /><br />It's also true that the district has done a major bait and switch with MAP. It was introduced allegedly to serve one purpose -- as a tool to help teachers help our kids -- but has since been morphed into a measure/barrier for advanced placement and as a teacher evaluation tool/truncheon. <br /><br />suep.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17281578510716234624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17682492090340417012013-01-11T09:23:54.555-08:002013-01-11T09:23:54.555-08:00On the drive to school I asked my daughter what sh...On the drive to school I asked my daughter what she thought of the MAP. She said it was okay, but not that great because she couldn't "check herself." I asked her what that meant, and didn't she get a score at the end? She said, "No. You just go until there's a barking dog on the screen that says, 'good job!' What does that mean?" <br /><br />Hilarious.<br /><br />MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com