tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post6751473592526426497..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Seattle Council PTSA Message to PTA LeadersMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5977493991037016452015-05-16T17:29:32.156-07:002015-05-16T17:29:32.156-07:00Evidently our state legislators don't want to ...Evidently our state legislators don't want to pay for the Common Core plus all the other state standards such as for art, music, science, recess, etc.<br /><br />I have always found it absurd that when deemed to be underfunding basic education based on their own definition, the districts, schools and teachers all still move forward with that definition even in the absence of funding. Why not just add design a hydrogen car and a cure for cancer because they would probably try to get it done too.<br /><br />Sorry for being so crass but really the buck stops where exactly?Ann Dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34537277626670873282015-05-15T19:42:24.715-07:002015-05-15T19:42:24.715-07:00I'm with Chris S., but many JSCEE staff are do...I'm with Chris S., but many JSCEE staff are doing great work and don't need the reality check. I would suggest just the District bargaining team that will be negotiating this summer's contract. "Class size doesn't matter" would then not be heard at that bargaining table (like it was two years ago...)seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87774380653012702562015-05-15T17:13:41.853-07:002015-05-15T17:13:41.853-07:00Confused--I do love the idea of all the JSCEE staf...Confused--I do love the idea of all the JSCEE staff being stuck in a gymnasium with a hundred kids and some board games! THEN there would be 100k+ "teachers" for a day.<br /><br />Chris S.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9334097300422754972015-05-15T15:01:59.506-07:002015-05-15T15:01:59.506-07:00Very Confused, imagine for a moment I came to you ...Very Confused, imagine for a moment I came to you and said "I'm pulling down X dollars per year!" You'd almost certainly interpret that as X plus benefits. Nobody talks about their total compensation value. They talk about the direct salary and maybe add "but I get great benefits" to the end. Same thing with teachers. I say all the time that the cost to the district of an FTE teacher is about $100K. I'd never say that they were making that money. Eric Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70148989964980520952015-05-15T12:47:30.606-07:002015-05-15T12:47:30.606-07:00"under" should have been "until&quo..."under" should have been "until"<br /><br />Jan<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25127481737573181622015-05-15T12:42:58.136-07:002015-05-15T12:42:58.136-07:00Here is what I don't understand. I agree with...Here is what I don't understand. I agree with Very Confused that "one day" may not get the legislatures attention (though the logical follow up might be that teachers need to STAY out under the state deals with this issue! If all the schools did that, it would become interesting in a hurry!<br /><br />But while "a day" is not a minor thing if you have to find alternate day care (for younger kids) -- it baffles me that there is so much beefing about the "inconvenience" of a day -- when at the same time our kids are being subjected to many many days of test prep that detracts from meaningful learning -- AND then days and days of testing that takes away learning time (both during the test and for all of the schedule and space dislocations that occur to those being tested, and those not) AND then the (insult to injury) hit of getting test scores that do not fairly measure what they were taught, (because they weren't taught the standards yet) OR what they know (because even if they know the stuff, the test questions are poorly written, deliberately ambiguous or "tricky", or because the test interface and time deadlines are poorly thought out and flawed.<br /><br />I hope that the people complaining about the inconvenience and expense of the one day walk out are complaining commensurately loudly about the wasted time and expense of SBA.<br /><br />Jan Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22374724583843274562015-05-15T12:16:30.901-07:002015-05-15T12:16:30.901-07:00Yeah, yeah. Those fat-cat, overpaid teachers!
...Yeah, yeah. Those fat-cat, overpaid teachers! <br /><br />I'm reminded of that every time I see a teacher in line at Staples or Costco, buying pencils and kleenex for their classrooms, on their own time, with their own money. <br /><br />If people writing code for violent video games can earn 150k in this town, what the hell is wrong with paying teachers a decent wage? <br /><br />WSDWGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50937925165047697562015-05-15T12:09:42.845-07:002015-05-15T12:09:42.845-07:00@ Patrick
I'm just saying the legislature has ...@ Patrick<br />I'm just saying the legislature has to be pragmatic, and put the onus of responsibility on the voters to vote for new revenue. An income tax, and income tax on the wealthy? Until the voters step up to the plate, they can only get what the pay for, not what the dream up on their initiative wish list.<br />-NNNCrAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77477948420874996372015-05-15T12:08:33.412-07:002015-05-15T12:08:33.412-07:00I'm just saying the legislature has to be prag...I'm just saying the legislature has to be pragmatic, and put the onus of responsibility on the voters to vote for new revenue. An income tax, and income tax on the wealthy? Until the voters step up to the plate, they can only get what the pay for, not what the dream up on their initiative wish list.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-88696724858315321612015-05-15T11:24:47.846-07:002015-05-15T11:24:47.846-07:00NNNCr, they could do that, but what a cynical way ...NNNCr, they could do that, but what a cynical way to go. I don't think it would be just relatively wealthy Seattle voters who would be offended by that approach. "Ample provision" doesn't mean "Hey, there are still a few poor southeastern states that fund education even worse than we do."<br />Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16260807460417787614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57814583442055821892015-05-15T10:27:48.393-07:002015-05-15T10:27:48.393-07:00A walk out may be illogical, but waiting until aft...A walk out may be illogical, but waiting until after the fact, once the legislature is done, to walk out in fall would be less useful.<br /><br />A teacher pay initiative is illogical. Why aren't all state workers, elected officials, and education worker pay stipends, on a fixed scale with a COLA?<br /><br />A class size initiative is illogical. School districts have no extra classrooms. Without a forced building bond property tax, the new classrooms are just a blacktop in the rain.<br /><br />If their is no winning scenario, the legislature needs to change the rules. Redefine basic education within the available budget. Redefine basic, by adjusting three issues: minimum yearly hours per grade, classroom size, and set teacher stipend scale coupled to state scale. Then fund that, and comply with the supreme court. If districts find more local money to add to that, then so be it.<br /><br />-NNNCrAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76750977651549305302015-05-15T10:00:57.571-07:002015-05-15T10:00:57.571-07:00I'll address a few comments:
@Patrick: A one...I'll address a few comments:<br /><br />@Patrick: A one day walk-out does very little. Parents have been complaining to the legislature for over a decade. They sued the legislature, and won. The legislature still is not responsive. To think that parents calling one more time due to this one day walk-out will finally push them to act is pretty tortured logic. Now if this was a two week strike that put the city to its knees due to the disruption in people's lives then I could perhaps see your point. But doing this for one day is just for show.<br /><br />@ Eric B.: You might say you only get paid your salary, but the other items are of value and you know it. If someone tried to hire you away from your current position with the deal that your salary would stay the same but you'd have no benefits, then you more likely then not turn down that offer. Compensation is more then salary, and it would be nice if more people could recognize that.<br /><br />Very ConfusedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79059914025460543732015-05-15T09:14:34.378-07:002015-05-15T09:14:34.378-07:00When people talk about pay, most listeners outside...When people talk about pay, most listeners outside the HR field hear "dollars before taxes". That skews high if you are talking about total compensation. <br /><br />Incidentally, I just looked at my company's annual compensation report for me. It included salary, insurance, 401(k), holidays/vacation, and Social Security. It does not include employer share of federal income taxes. At a company with pretty good benefits, the total package is about 50% of the salary. If someone asked what I get paid, I'd still say my salary, not 1.5 x salary, though. Eric Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4217078771816741902015-05-15T09:12:44.243-07:002015-05-15T09:12:44.243-07:00Very Confused, there aren't enough nonteaching...Very Confused, there aren't enough nonteaching staff at schools to supervise all the students. Doing that would endanger the students' safety.<br /><br />And it would punish school-level management, but the school-level management aren't responsible for the Legislature's failure to address state funding.<br /><br />A walkout for a day is a good way for the teachers to make the point. Strikes can be about other aspects of working conditions than pay.<br />Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16260807460417787614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50430996591973537712015-05-15T08:51:55.944-07:002015-05-15T08:51:55.944-07:00And they just recommended a 11% pay increase for t...And they just recommended a 11% pay increase for the legislators who are not doing their job.<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82052710534055630552015-05-15T08:01:22.343-07:002015-05-15T08:01:22.343-07:00No Unions,
You didn't list the site for your ...No Unions,<br /><br />You didn't list the site for your quote of 37 teachers making 100K+ (would have been helpful - could you post it?). It appears that you copied it from a site that notes "Other Teacher" for the category of the individual making $100,271. I'll note again that the SPS teacher schedule (website provided above) does not get classroom teachers to $100K, although the category of "other teacher" does line up with what we might agree is a problem with excessive administrators (some are former teachers now serving as "other teacher" admins) making $100K+. Some may deserve it, but overall there's still way too much waste/excess in the downtown palace (JSCEE). Admins should be classified as admins, not teachers (my opinion).<br /><br />That said, there's a lot of other issues other than pay for the walkout, but after 6 years with no cost of living adjustment from the state I understand why most of my peers are frustrated.<br /><br />TeacherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47156384284701867142015-05-15T07:52:42.051-07:002015-05-15T07:52:42.051-07:00Just because you can't think of any other way ...Just because you can't think of any other way to get attention, doesn't mean this is a good way. <br /><br />My issue isn't with unions. I have no beef with them. My issue was with using only the cash component of compensation as a proxy for whether someone earns more then 100K per year. <br /><br />And, you can't talk about unions in general without recognizing that they, like any entity, can do good and do bad. So while the weekend and the 40 hour work week were big wins, they also came along side things like the mob controlled teamsters and Jimmy Hoffa. <br /><br />For this walk out to have been meaningful the schools should have stayed open and building management should have babysat all the students in the gyms and cafeterias. And the students should have gotten credit for showing up. That would have made apoint to those with at least some power to do anything here. With the current setup all you've done is cause a huge distribution to every student's family, and then double punish the student and family by making them change their schedules later in the year to make up the day. <br /><br />Very ConfusedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-44363833037394232202015-05-15T07:51:44.174-07:002015-05-15T07:51:44.174-07:00When calculating total compensation, it is usual p...When calculating total compensation, it is usual practice to include things like employer-paid taxes and other overhead that the employee never even sees on their pay statement. Those figures exist to determine the cost of an FTE, not their pay.<br />Ragweedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491896585801927302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16432663384949415062015-05-15T07:38:14.289-07:002015-05-15T07:38:14.289-07:00Very Confused, it's not that hard to understan...Very Confused, it's not that hard to understand. Families will feel the difficulty and complain to their legislators. It's the legislature who has ignored their job for decade after decade, not the teachers.<br />Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16260807460417787614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20517193913440409102015-05-15T07:33:41.258-07:002015-05-15T07:33:41.258-07:00I agree that the walkout is probably not the best ...I agree that the walkout is probably not the best plan, but I don't see a lot of other options for drawing attention to the legislature's inability to address McCleary, enact the smaller class size initiative, and (finally) give a long-overdue COLA to educators.<br />While many might think the walkout is about teacher pay (which is why I am not particularly in favor of it), in my opinion it is about so much more - it really IS "about the kids."<br /><br />It really isn't that much inconvenience; that's a red herring. And I have yet to hear other suggestions for how to get the legislature's attention. Anybody? Anybody?seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38545900327456929982015-05-15T07:31:20.177-07:002015-05-15T07:31:20.177-07:00All workers benefit from unions whether they belon...All workers benefit from unions whether they belong to them or not. Unions brought us weekends, 40 hour work weeks, and many other benefits. Quit picking on the teachers and go after the legislators who aren't doing their jobs. Right to work states (which should be called right to be paid crap and fired at a whim) have significantly lower salaries for all workers.<br /><br />Not a union member.<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57695559326764936192015-05-15T07:09:20.456-07:002015-05-15T07:09:20.456-07:00the Union cartelthe Union cartelBarbie beatdownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31504775039649012862015-05-15T06:51:52.249-07:002015-05-15T06:51:52.249-07:00There's more to compensation then the cash sal...There's more to compensation then the cash salary component. When you add in benefits costs an employee with cash compensation of $75K per year easily can have a fully burdened cost of over $100K. This is of course not limited to school districts and teachers. But, when looked at on a total compensation basis, I'm sure there are many folks above the $100K mark.<br /><br />My issue with the walk out has nothing to do with salary or total compensation though, and everything to do with the base stupidity of it. Again, the legislature won't suffer the consequences of the walk out, so I don't understand the point of it. <br /><br />Very ConfusedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-3403782985868633932015-05-14T23:26:26.738-07:002015-05-14T23:26:26.738-07:00Michael, take your union-hating, teacher dissing r...Michael, take your union-hating, teacher dissing rants elsewhere.<br /><br />Hit DeleteAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27951523006137470052015-05-14T21:59:35.368-07:002015-05-14T21:59:35.368-07:00 Seattle Public Schools Other Teacher $65,765 $24,... Seattle Public Schools Other Teacher $65,765 $24,654 $9,852 $100,271<br /><br />There are over 37 teacher listed at 98k to 103K per year.<br /><br />No UnionsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com