tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post6787489100145894281..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Growing PainsMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger102125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49309317354528876712011-02-27T11:54:28.296-08:002011-02-27T11:54:28.296-08:00SPS didn't "get something for nothing&quo...SPS didn't "get something for nothing". What about the land under the portable? That does in fact belong to SPS. Without it, the portables are worthless. The portables on the school property ARE part of the schools capacity. MOU's are absurd. Schools should not be able to pay down class size, nor get any other special arrangement. No matter how much money the parents have. You want private school? Go to private school. So now that the school is in the situation, sure pay them whatever is left on the deal. I'm sure less than $60K. And no Guppy. Somehow equalizing the funding at BG and McGilvra doesn't make anything "fair" or equitable. Whatever parents donate should be spread out "equitably" across the district, and disproportionately to those who need it. The BG's in the district should ALWAYS get more, because their needs are way more. Their needs are more than whatever few thousand they receive. If you want a piece of that increased funding, then go sign your student up for BG, there's still time!<br /><br />parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67120034525909901262011-02-26T21:21:27.151-08:002011-02-26T21:21:27.151-08:00Why should SPS get something for nothing?
Well ma...<i>Why should SPS get something for nothing?</i><br /><br />Well maybe because they do it all the time to lots and lots of schools? At least they aren't threatening to charge McGilvra's PTSA 3% of whatever they paid for the portables for the honor of donating them.<br /><br />I guess I'm getting jaded.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83209094318573071672011-02-26T20:03:07.615-08:002011-02-26T20:03:07.615-08:00"It would be nice if SPS paid the PTSA the am..."It would be nice if SPS paid the PTSA the amount it would cost them to move existing portables onto the McGilvra lot."<br /><br />Really, Maureen? You don't think SPS should have to pay for the portables? You think SPS should just pay the cost of moving the portables? Why should SPS get something for nothing? Why should the PTA donate those portables to SPS? <br /><br />At the very least the PTA should sell those portables to SPS for whatever they are worth on the open market today, in addition to billing SPS the cost to move and set up portables.<br /><br />I'd be outraged if I were one of the parents that donated money to buy the portables, in an effort to reduce class size, only to see them given to SPS for free, so they could increase class size.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56276403681701867672011-02-26T15:27:31.766-08:002011-02-26T15:27:31.766-08:00The thing is that the Assignment Plan has changed....The thing is that the Assignment Plan has changed. It doesn't matter what the functional capacity of a building is anymore. Families wanted predicatable access, they forgot to ask for predictable class size. Whoops. <br /><br />The kids who live inside the neighborhood boundaries now get a seat at their school. That is a good thing for the Madison Park families who might have been closed out of McGilvra under the old system. It's not so great for those who live closer and knew they had a seat in a small class under the old system. <br /><br />McGilvra has the same problem that Garfield and Bryant and Schmitz Park do. The portables make their situation a little easier, and saves the District the trouble of moving in new portables, but the fact remains that all neighborhood schools now have to take all of the kids who show up. The ownership of the portables is irrelevant now. Selling them off would help no one and only hurt the McGilvra kids. It would be nice if SPS paid the PTSA the amount it would cost them to move existing portables onto the McGilvra lot.<br /><br />I suppose it's true that their existance makes it slightly more likely that McGilvra will have to accept kids leaving Madrona or other schools for AYP reasons. On the other hand, if there are enough kids in the boundary to fill the school then that won't happen. Families leaving for private are making it more likely that kids from outside the boundaries will be bused there. If there are seats, why should they sit empty while the AYP kids are bused to Montlake or Sandpoint? <br /><br />McGilvra has had a great thing going for quite awhile due to the dedication (and money) of the Madison Park families. Under the NSAP more neighborhood families will feel confident that they can attend the school. In a way, they are lucky no major remodel has been done, now they should work on getting onto one of the building levies and create a safe and updated school that serves the neighborhood. Then they can have their own stage and spend their PTSA money on drama and music and art and on hiring reading and math specialists to effectively reduce class size. That is how other schools do it when they can. <br /><br />In fact, I would advise them to keep trying to collect extra money from parents even though they won't have to pay for the extra staff anymore. Then they can use that money to pay for all of the things SPS won't provide for their remodeled building, like curtains for their stage.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24948069366642238072011-02-26T12:08:31.238-08:002011-02-26T12:08:31.238-08:00Very unfortunate situation for McGilvra.
The fa...Very unfortunate situation for McGilvra. <br /><br />The families at McGilvra worked hard and donated plenty of time and dollars into making a public school an attractive option for all families, including those that could very easily choose private.<br /><br />If I were the head of the McGilvra PTA, I'd propose selling those portables to another school district, and I'd repay the funds to the McGilvra PTA. Let SPS figure out how to get themselves out of the mess they've created. <br /><br />SPS ruins yet another good thing, that was working, and that came from the community.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5609488084957941452011-02-25T22:44:16.136-08:002011-02-25T22:44:16.136-08:00Here is some data on McGilvra. Each portable hous...Here is some data on McGilvra. Each portable houses one first grade class currently. The contract from 10 years ago created 3 new classrooms at McGilvra (2 were each in a portable and one was made via changing around the lunchroom and a storage closet.) By adding 3 more classrooms and paying for 3 teachers, the PTA got smaller class sizes and the district got more overall students at McGilvra. Oh, and they got a much better performing school. <br /><br />No one comes to McGilvra for the facility. There is one set of student bathrooms that were not designed for the number of students currently at McGilvra (they were designed for the old 9 room schoolhouse) and the size of the lunchroom is laughably inadequate. The art teacher is set up in a hallway. As far as putting kids on the stage --- there isn't a stage at McGilvra. The McGilvra end of year concert is at TOPS. <br /><br />My understanding is that the school district has basically told McGilvra that their new functional capacity is just over 300 students (and, yes, they're counting the portables even though SPS doesn't own them), but if there are more students than that, they'll still end up at McGilvra. Also, if the PTA tries to do anything to reduce class size again (such as build more portables) the school district will just add that space to their functional capacity and send more kids to McGilvra (and they noted that yes, people from Madrona would likely want to get in under NCLB since it's "undesirable"). And, yes, McGilvra parents did lobby to get the MLK students into the McGilvra boundary when that school was closed. <br /><br />I'm not too worried about overcrowding at McGilvra next year, though, as I know of several families that are now opting for private school instead of kindergarten at McGilvra. This is too bad as they would have been an asset to SPS not only in elementary school but also at Washington and Garfield. <br /><br />Signed, <br />SPS parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-92064980604449031392011-02-25T15:02:00.469-08:002011-02-25T15:02:00.469-08:00It is unfortunate that so many people will read th...<i>It is unfortunate that so many people will read through this and make judgments based on partial or incorrect information. </i><br /><br />Then correct the information. Let us know what we've got wrong . . . <br /><br />stuStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769983958729170219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58140825563015093692011-02-25T14:14:03.470-08:002011-02-25T14:14:03.470-08:00Wow! It is amazing to see all of the misinformatio...Wow! It is amazing to see all of the misinformation in this string. It is unfortunate that so many people will read through this and make judgments based on partial or incorrect information. <br /><br /><br /><br />Old school WildcatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79198140299277479462011-02-24T15:03:48.946-08:002011-02-24T15:03:48.946-08:00Just out of curiousity, how many classes are house...Just out of curiousity, how many classes are housed in the portables? And how many classrooms are there in the building?Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16540428343439198125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60806147913836941352011-02-24T14:26:13.157-08:002011-02-24T14:26:13.157-08:00the building is operating at full capacity. The di...the building is operating at full capacity. The district has assigned 28 per class based on the functional capacity of building. they can not use the portables in their capacity calculation because the portables do not belong to them. In this way the building is at capacity.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53547771085406662722011-02-24T14:07:16.782-08:002011-02-24T14:07:16.782-08:00Stu, what do you mean, "to those who cannot g...<i>Stu, what do you mean, "to those who cannot get into McGilvra"? We have a neighborhood assignment plan now. McGilvra has to take the kids in the assignment area, period. That's what the plan means.</i><br /><br />Yikes . . . chompin' at the bit much?<br /><br />I simply meant those who can't get into McGilvra (like any other school) when it's full. Regardless of how the portables issue ends up, there is limited space at McGilvra and I'd rather see the district spend the time and money building up the program at Madrona, which was ease things in the whole area, than ruin something at McGilvra.<br /><br />stuStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769983958729170219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85379254612516903352011-02-24T12:59:20.889-08:002011-02-24T12:59:20.889-08:00If the district had drawn the boundaries smaller, ...If the district had drawn the boundaries smaller, so that McGilvra would be able to have 20 kids per class, wouldn't a bunch of families who wanted in to McGilvra be left out? <br /><br />It's not as though a class size of 20 is without costs -- and I'm not talking monetary costs here. The families that get the McGilvra with a class size of 20 are happy, the folks who could have easily fit in are very unhappy.<br /><br />Why should I care more for the folks who want a class size of 20 and less for those that will be prevented from enrolling?<br /><br />In regards to Madrona, I have yet to see the district make significant programming changes to a school without having their hand forced by capacity. <br /><br />Perhaps if McGilvra takes classes full of 28 students and there is still unaddressed capacity pressure, then the district will feel forced to take dramatic action to make the school more appealing. Maybe they'd even switch it to an international program, but maybe I'm just dreaming.Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16540428343439198125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17501975321004546112011-02-24T11:27:51.830-08:002011-02-24T11:27:51.830-08:00The district deliberately drew the boundaries arou...The district deliberately drew the boundaries around McGilvra to require use of the portables with full classes. McGlivra is lucky the district didn't also include the stage, the teacher's lounge and any large closets. Or maybe they won’t find out about that part til September. In fact, if the PTA sells the portables to the district, it is equally likely that the district will move the portables to some other school and still put the extra McGilvra kids on the stage. <br /><br />As for spreading the parent investment to other more deserving, needier schools like Madrona. We learned those lessons the last time middle class parents tried to get involved at Madrona. Such paternalism was degrading and unwanted. The accusations of privilege and racism are not soon forgotten.Rose Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06502791495668486857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90915869164434356652011-02-24T10:28:44.137-08:002011-02-24T10:28:44.137-08:00Well, DJ, there are a lot of families in the Madro...Well, DJ, there are a lot of families in the Madrona neighborhood that want to do exactly what the McGilvra families have done. The last prinicipal said no. What does the current one say? Anyone know?<br /><br />The question is whether the district gets to count the portables that it doesn't own in the capacity calculation. It seems that they did when drawing the attendance area boundaries, even though they were contractually obiligated at the time not to. And that is another example of the district ignoring it's obligations, contractual and otherwise.<br /><br />And, btw, as I live right on the edge of those boundaries, reducing them doesn't benefit me at all. My kid goes to a different school, but being in the Madrona attendance area rather than McGilvra would have an impact on my property value.TechyMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04650916001250022778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41588355888347074092011-02-24T10:23:35.458-08:002011-02-24T10:23:35.458-08:00DJ, the district created the NSAP. The district fo...DJ, the district created the NSAP. The district formed the boundaries. The district guaranteed all families within the boundaries a spot at McGilvra. Now the district has to make it work. <br /><br />One option the district has is to use the portables to increase capacity. The only problem is that the portables do not belong to SPS. They belong to the McGilvra PTA. They bought them. They own them. The district has no right to use the portables to increase capacity, unless the PTA agrees to sell them to the district. Which they may do. Or they may decide to sell them to the Edmonds school district, or Bellevue, or Northshore. And they'd be fully within their rights to do so.<br /><br />Then what is SPS gonna do to make the NSAP work?<br /><br />SPS got themselves into this mess, they need to get themselves out.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83774461073479963852011-02-24T09:36:29.701-08:002011-02-24T09:36:29.701-08:00Stu, what do you mean, "to those who cannot g...Stu, what do you mean, "to those who cannot get into McGilvra"? We have a neighborhood assignment plan now. McGilvra has to take the kids in the assignment area, period. That's what the plan means. Conversely it also means that if the school is filled to capacity with McGilvra-area kids, noone else can get in. The only thing being dickered about here is what "being filled to capacity" means -- does it mean that classes have 28 kids or 20? <br /><br />Oh, sure. It would be super if the district would take steps to improve Madrona, or any of the other schools in this district that are undesirable to families. Come to think of it, there is nothing stopping the McGilvra families from investing huge sums of money into exactly that endeavor (except for the "well that's not *our* school so it is not *our* problem" argument, which is in my view one of the worst aspects of the NSAP -- the extent to which the NSAP reinforces that view). Of course, the argument is pretty specious given that we all know that it is not happening and is unlikely to start happening now, during a time of fiscal crisis.djhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720927162286657378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21655751902524597552011-02-24T08:25:24.467-08:002011-02-24T08:25:24.467-08:00Remember that the portables only add something lik...Remember that the portables only add something like 50 kids to the capacity of McGilvra. How many empty seats are there at Madrona (a new, expensive building, btw)? Isn't it something like 300? Does it make sense to spend money to buy portables or remodel McGilvra to hold more kids, when we've already spent that money on Madrona's building. The program at Madrona needs to get fixed so that it is a program the neighborhood families are willing to use. THAT is the elephant in the room of Washginton SA capacity.<br /><br />There were 10 kindergarteners who were kicked out of McGilvra for using fake addresses this fall. 10! Why did those families feel they needed to cheat? Can we fix that, before we start adding capacity at McGilvra?TechyMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04650916001250022778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85225837241281411532011-02-24T04:01:26.575-08:002011-02-24T04:01:26.575-08:00This is one of many things that are wrong with pub...This is one of many things that are wrong with public education. You have parents who are even willing to fund this endeavor and have gone so far as to sign an agreement with the district and the district still may want to break the contract. There’s no skin off the district’s back on this one. The point is that the parents want smaller class sizes for their students and if they’re willing to pay for it, so be it! How hard is that? It’s not like they are asking the district to pay for it and make exceptions for them from a financial standpoint. Maybe it would be better if the district just taxed them for it. Oh yea, then the parents would never see the money.Clay Boggesshttp://www.bigeventfundraising.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79179041815284424862011-02-23T22:28:11.400-08:002011-02-23T22:28:11.400-08:00I was wondering how long it would take for someone...<i>I was wondering how long it would take for someone to offer "send those kids we don't want to Madrona" as a solution. You can set your watch by it.</i><br /><br />The same way you know that someone's going to misinterpret an argument and put words in someone's mouth.<br /><br />No one said to send "those kids we don't want" to Madrona. Someone did say that perhaps making Madrona more attractive might be a way to take pressure off a FULL McGilvra. That's right . . at capacity. And, if the whole thing with the portables changes and the capacity goes up, it'll STILL be at capacity and the district will have to do something to make Madrona more attractive to THOSE WHO CAN'T GET IN TO MCGILVRA.<br /><br />stuStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769983958729170219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66070697318751038032011-02-23T14:34:17.813-08:002011-02-23T14:34:17.813-08:00I was wondering how long it would take for someone...I was wondering how long it would take for someone to offer "send those kids we don't want to Madrona" as a solution. You can set your watch by it.djhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01720927162286657378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13733355091441100212011-02-23T12:21:06.464-08:002011-02-23T12:21:06.464-08:00Once again we see a story about an MOU between an ...Once again we see a story about an MOU between an individual school community and the District.<br /><br />How can my kids' schools get MOU's like this? We just get promises, that the District promptly breaks.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18676384548639213782011-02-23T12:12:54.189-08:002011-02-23T12:12:54.189-08:00But what good would selling the portables actually...<i>But what good would selling the portables actually do? Without portables McGilvra would still accept the same number of kids, they'd just be housed in the main building and have much larger class sizes.</i><br /><br />From what I've read it sounds like the disrict will just buy the portables for $60K. The capacity of the school will not be reduced, and while it's not great to be putting out the extra expense, compared to the other capital costs the disrict has (like the costs of reopening schools) $60K is a very small figure. <br /><br />From what I've read elsewhere it sounds like the PTA is already reconciled about this. <br /><br />It is an interesting question about what the PTA should do with this money, since it can't be used for the exact purpose it was originally intended and it would be, I imagine logistically impossible to refund it.<br /><br />Any idea, Guppy, what the PTA plans?Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16540428343439198125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52422432585137394922011-02-23T12:07:06.534-08:002011-02-23T12:07:06.534-08:00I guess what I'm trying to say is that the dis...I guess what I'm trying to say is that the district created the NSAP. They guaranteed everyone space in their neighborhood schools. They have to make it work. If the school doesn't have space for all of the students in their boundaries, then SPS needs to address the situation. They may need to adjust the boundaries, buy their own portables, or rebuild the building. What they can't do is just co-opt, and take over, the portables that the PTA paid for, and owns. They do not belong to them.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-189322241227294842011-02-23T11:55:47.184-08:002011-02-23T11:55:47.184-08:00sorry my post disappeared and I had to repost agai...sorry my post disappeared and I had to repost again.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41189586704713836372011-02-23T11:54:58.711-08:002011-02-23T11:54:58.711-08:00Bird the portables do not belong to SPS. They belo...Bird the portables do not belong to SPS. They belong to the McGilvra PTA. <br /><br />The McGilvra building holds 250 students, not counting the portables, and the school enrolls 250 students (sometimes a few more). They are enrolled to their "building functional capacity". <br /><br />What the families at McGilvra did was buy themselves some portables, hire a teacher, and use that to create smaller class sizes. They did not reduce the number of students the school accepts. <br /><br />I don't think SPS could force McGilvra to use the portables to increase capacity, as they do not belong to SPS. If SPS forced McGilvra to use their portables to increase capacity, and thus class size, I'd think that the PTA would have a fiscal responsibility to sell the portables and repay the PTA money spent, as families donated the money with the expectation (and a 20 year contract) that class size would be reduced.<br /><br />But what good would selling the portables actually do? Without portables McGilvra would still accept the same number of kids, they'd just be housed in the main building and have much larger class sizes.<br /><br />Perhaps SPS could buy the portables, but with the current cutbacks and lay offs, I doubt they have that kind of money to invest. Plus they have Madrona sitting half full just a mile or so away. I'd think they'd want to focus on making Madrona more attractive and filling all of those emty seats before they buy portables to cram even more kids into the already over crowded McGilvra.<br /><br />And McGilvra does, and always has, accepted no child transfer students as is required BY LAW. They can't buy their way out of that. Where in the world did you get the idea that they didn't?anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.com