tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post6990863508024008314..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Tuesday Open ThreadMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49576257033026498002018-10-02T16:03:35.561-07:002018-10-02T16:03:35.561-07:00Another thing to bear in mind is that one-on-one t...Another thing to bear in mind is that one-on-one testing is the gold standard. If you gave a professional, unbiased psychologist results from a Cogat and from a standard one-on-one IQ test, and if those results diverged, the psychologist would always, always go by the IQ test result. The Cogat is never more accurate than an IQ test. Parents who pursue private testing already know something is up with their kids and they need more data to understand.<br /><br />IQ tests also cannot be prepped for. The way it's normed and administered makes that nearly impossible without considerable advance effort, and with that level of effort, a child would easily clear the Cogat threshold first.<br /><br />In Seattle's flawed identification model, a child has jump through 15 hoops in order to be identified. If you kid has just ONE bad test day among many of those hoops, your child is disqualified for a FULL YEAR of testing. The only check (in the sense of checks-and-balances) on the district is to do a private test and see if that bum test is an aberration or part of a pattern.<br /><br />Also, this idea that there is rampant fraud among testing psychologists is laughable. There is zero evidence of this, there are zero alleged or litigated cases of fraud. Like voter fraud, IQ testing fraud does not exist. (And even if one or two cases did arise, as with voter fraud, it would not justify indicting the whole paradigm.)<br /><br />It would be better if we tested ALL 2nd and 5th graders, during the school day, every year. It would be better if we allowed people to otherwise qualify at any time of year. (Right now, if you don't qualify in year 1, you would wait 2 full years before your child could be first enrolled in HCC.) It would be better if we had multiple pathways to qualify. Other districts and state law require multiple pathways, but have only one pathway of 15- to 20-steps depending on your situation. North Shore has a best-in-practice model with five or more ways to qualify. (North Shore also doesn't allow private testing, but only because the checks-and-balances are provided by the multiple pathways!)<br /><br />Until the district does literally even one thing to improve identification, one-on-one testing has to remain as an option. It is accurate, valid, reasonable, and essential when faced with a district that gatekeeps HCC to keep it smaller, proportionately, than does any other Puget Sound school district.<br /><br />SheeshAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57637340665129818512018-10-02T15:01:36.342-07:002018-10-02T15:01:36.342-07:00@ Southender, your opinions and anecdotes aside, p...@ Southender, your opinions and anecdotes aside, private testing isn't a perk. Nor is it a way for people to buy their way into HCC. <br /><br />You seem to suggest that raising awareness of families that their FRL student can get free private testing is absurd because families "aren't even aware of the test in the first place," but maybe you're confused about when that would happen. The private testing would happen AFTER the student had already taken the CogAT and didn't qualify that way, despite the parents' expectation that they should. So those parents are going to be aware of the test. Those parents also had to agree to that initial test in the first place, too. <br /><br />You said: <i>Far too many people I know use this route, not because of a disability or because of a way to be a check on the SPS test, but because their kid didn't qualify on the SPS and the parent's feel their child is super talented and gifted, so they pay privately to get their kid tested.</i><br /><br />Uh, yeah. Of course. If the group test is unreliable (which it is), and parents feel strongly the results don't reflect what they know about their child (which is more than what others know about their child), then private testing is the rational next step. In that sense, it IS being done to be a check on the SPS test--not a check in the "I think they mis-scored the test" kind of way, but rather a check in the "I don't think this test format accurately assessed my child" kind of way. <br /><br />Since you're so into personal opinions on this matter, here's mine: a lot of parents who think their kids are "smart" have them tested via SPS, just to see. Some qualify, some don't. Most parents of kids who are clearly advanced/highlycapable/gifted/etc. also test, because they know their kids need something else now, or likely will need something different soon. If those kids don't make it through the district's screening, those parents are more likely to pursue private testing--because they know their child, and suspect that the highly imperfect test did not accurately measure their child's abilities for some reason. They want to make sure the results are accurate, and that the child is appropriately placed.<br /><br />Oh, and as for disability, you do understand that it often takes private testing to identify the disability in the first place, right? A lot of people aren't doing private testing as an accommodation for a pre-identified disability, but rather they are doing private testing to see why their child, who seems like they should have qualified for HC, didn't. It's often because they have a disability that had not been identified yet. <br /><br />I agree that testing everyone (not just Title 1 schools) at 2nd grade, and again at 5th grade, would provide greater access. It wouldn't necessarily change the demographics of who is in the program, but it would definitely increase the number who qualify. Expanding the use of a flawed test, however, doesn't seem like a great idea, and we'd still need a way not to discriminate against those who may have disabilities. As the district can only barely manage the testing process as it is, I have a hard time seeing them succeed with a larger endeavor unless the AL office is totally revamped. <br /><br />all typesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7209645245425825542018-10-02T13:24:39.835-07:002018-10-02T13:24:39.835-07:00Have to disagree on the private testing comments f...Have to disagree on the private testing comments from above. Far too many people I know use this route, not because of a disability or because of a way to be a check on the SPS test, but because their kid didn't qualify on the SPS and the parent's feel their child is super talented and gifted, so they pay privately to get their kid tested to meet the standard (and this seems to be a good business for those that administer the test- they even come to your home!). And please, raising awareness to families that they can get reimbursed for testing. Many families aren't even aware of the test in the first place or even have the ability to get to the test site, so how are they going to even know about private testing. Private testing is not used for what probably was it's original intention, but has instead become a way for families in the know who are determined that their child is "gifted" and have the financial resources to test their child so that they can go to HCC. And if SPS already tests all Title 1 second graders, it doesn't get everyone, so why not just do a universal test at second and at 5th (like someone else commented).<br /><br />-southenderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41870265108623309192018-10-02T11:12:14.236-07:002018-10-02T11:12:14.236-07:00We really need to get away from this idea that pri...We really need to get away from this idea that private testing is a perk. Private testing is often the only way kids with disabilities can be identified. It's also the only way to overcome obvious testing errors, which are super common in Seattle Public Schools. The district assumes they are infallible, and they are not, and there is no check. If Seattle used multiple pathways to qualify, that would be one thing, but we use this labyrinth 15-step process with rigid deadlines. Private testing is the only check against the district's not-infrequent total administrative and testing incompetence.<br /><br />Equity means every kid gets what they need. Private testing is what kids with disabilities need in our current set-up.<br /><br />Even better would be universal testing during school hours of all, and I mean all, second graders and fifth graders. Because there are low-income students and students of color at non-Title I schools who need identifying too!<br /><br />SheeshAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26568943466826201932018-10-02T10:40:22.575-07:002018-10-02T10:40:22.575-07:00@ Data "hat metric is both more specific and ...@ Data "hat metric is both more specific and more mysterious. Researchers still don’t understand exactly what leads some neighborhoods to nurture children, although they point to characteristics like more employed adults and two-parent families that are common among such places. Other features like school boundary lines and poverty levels often cited as indicators of good neighborhoods explain only half of the variation here."<br /><br />Well if it did not its obvious the research should correlate other demographic information besides poverty/FRL rate. Different ethnicities, and what percentage are immigrant children etc. Outcomes may vary considerably, yes two parent households, family values toward education etc. <br />KLAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28437292024289845672018-10-02T09:58:54.087-07:002018-10-02T09:58:54.087-07:00@southender,
Yes, there is a lack of diversity o...@southender, <br /><br />Yes, there is a lack of diversity of students testing for HCC. However, according to SPS AL, they already DO "provide universal screening for 2nd grade students in Title I and High ELL schools," and the Title I universal screening DOES result in a higher number of students taking the full CogAT. It's not happening in all schools, and there are other barriers, too, but at least it's a start. Then again, the universal screening may just be identifying more students from groups that are already disproportionately represented in the testing, qualification, and election to participate. In other words, what you observed may have been due to more white and/or Asian students who might otherwise not have been referred for screening. It all depends on how different groups are doing on those screening tests.<br /><br />As to your suggestion to also "do away with private testing and make things more equitable," that actually doesn't make things more equitable. Private testing is actually more accurate, and is often a better format for students with special needs--to eliminate access to more accurate private testing for students who, for whatever reason, don't do well on the group-administered tests is inequitable. Instead, doing better outreach so that FRL families know they can qualify for free private testing if their student seems to need HC services but did not qualify via the district's testing would be the way to make things more equitable. <br /><br />all typesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9913235824566153332018-10-01T20:44:23.701-07:002018-10-01T20:44:23.701-07:00Interesting research from Harvard and U.S. Census ...Interesting research from Harvard and U.S. Census on the intersection between neighborhoods where children grew up and adult outcomes. NY Times article includes discussion on Seattle. Note their finding that school boundary lines and poverty only explain half of the variation. It's critical for SPS to delve deeper, perhaps by working in partnership with Harvard/U.S. Census and Seattle Housing Authority, into understanding reasons behind these differences as a basis for forming policy.<br /><br />"The part of this city east of Northgate Mall looks like many of the neighborhoods that surround it, with its modest midcentury homes beneath dogwood and Douglas fir trees.<br /><br />Whatever distinguishes this place is invisible from the street. But it appears that poor children who grow up here — to a greater degree than children living even a mile away — have good odds of escaping poverty over the course of their lives.<br /><br />Believing this, officials in the Seattle Housing Authority are offering some families with housing vouchers extra rent money and help to find a home here: between 100th and 115th Streets, east of Meridian, west of 35th Avenue. Officials drew these lines, and boundaries around several other Seattle neighborhoods, using highly detailed research on the economic fortunes of children in nearly every neighborhood in America."<br /><br />That metric is both more specific and more mysterious. Researchers still don’t understand exactly what leads some neighborhoods to nurture children, although they point to characteristics like more employed adults and two-parent families that are common among such places. Other features like school boundary lines and poverty levels often cited as indicators of good neighborhoods explain only half of the variation here."<br /><br />"Many think of neighborhoods as either "good" or "bad" for everyone. But, we find<br />that outcomes can differ sharply across people who grow up in the same neighborhoods.<br />Returning to the example above, Hispanic men who grew up in Watts have an incarceration<br />rate of 4% – an order of magnitude smaller than for black men raised in the same tract.<br /><br />Outcomes also differ by gender: in Watts, low-income black women grow up to earn three times as much as low-income black men. These differences show that we should not think of neighborhood quality – or the policies that might improve it – as “one size fits all.” It may be more impactful to design policies that target specific subgroups in ways that directly address the particular challenges they face."<br /><br />https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/01/upshot/maps-neighborhoods-shape-child-poverty.html<br /><br />https://www.census.gov/ces/pdf/opportunity_atlas_summary.pdf<br /><br /><br />DataAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23891982040169423312018-10-01T19:26:01.837-07:002018-10-01T19:26:01.837-07:00I had my child tested this past weekend for Advanc...I had my child tested this past weekend for Advanced Learning at the Thurgood Marshall school location in South Seattle. I was quite shocked that out of all the kids that were taking the test there appeared to have been only one multiracial African American child. Being in South Seattle for the test, I was shocked at the lack of diversity of students at this testing site. It got me thinking, why doesn't the district just test ALL kids in say second grade every year. This, I feel would provide access for all and do away with private testing and make things more equitable. In thinking about it, there are barriers such as knowing about the test and what it is, how to register for the test (more complicated then it should be), access to getting to the test site and for many families that work on weekends, the test time is also an access issue. Why not just test everyone in school during a certain grade?<br /><br />-southenderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85601367219009092102018-10-01T15:24:19.852-07:002018-10-01T15:24:19.852-07:00In 2016-17, the number of HC-identified students w...In 2016-17, the number of HC-identified students who lived in each of these boundaries was:<br />Franklin 107<br />Garfield 182<br />Rainier Beach 38<br /><br />It's probably more now. And obviously there are plenty of hicap students who live in those zones who never went through the district's convenient 17-step formal process for identification.<br /><br />Garfield can't get rid of HCC students. It is those students' assigned high school. The high school and its teachers are required by law to serve those students. It is gross and creepy that some teachers keep publicly dissing their own f*ing students. <br /><br /><br />Bee Dadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-3759740738979176072018-10-01T14:50:34.458-07:002018-10-01T14:50:34.458-07:00@Same old, How do the points you tried to make sup...@Same old, How do the points you tried to make support your conclusion that HCC should leave Garfield?<br /><br />“Two out of 33 teachers are being cut from Garfield. One is a female gym teacher and the other is a health teacher.”<br /><br />What does this have to do with HCC? Presumably the principal made the cuts based on seniority and/or where the impacts could best be mitigated. The idea that Ted Howard was too afraid of HCC parents to cut other teachers just because of HCC is silly. He has shown no love for HCC.<br /><br />“Garfield is the only school to stage an illegal strike.”<br /><br />What does this walkout over late and disruptive teacher cuts across the district have to do with HCC? <br /><br />“Implications were made that would divide HCC and general education students.”<br /><br />I’m not exactly sure what you mean, but this sounds like an issue of a small number of teachers imposing their ideas and biases on students in an unprofessional manner, if things were said to stoke divisions. That’s an HR issue, not an HCC issue. <br /><br />HCC already doesn’t exist in high schools. There are simply pathways. Lucky you—many former/current HCC students will in fact be leaving—or not entering—GHS next year when Lincoln opens. But local HC students will still be there and they will need appropriate service, whether they came from HCC or not.<br /><br />Begin againAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24834033937904071582018-10-01T14:18:04.853-07:002018-10-01T14:18:04.853-07:00"It is time for HCC to leave Garfield."
..."It is time for HCC to leave Garfield."<br /><br />Look, I get that some of you don't like kids separated for any reason. That's fine.<br /><br />But there are HCC identified kids (who may or may not actually be in the program) at nearly every single school. They have to be served, no matter any parent's feelings. How the district chooses to do it is another issue but "leave School X" is not going to happen.<br /><br />Frankly, I wish we had one more Cascadia in the south, 1 HCC middle school and 1 HCC high school. Maybe out of sight, out of mind would make parents quit blame on group for all the woes of this district. And, if they were separated, you'd see that the equity issue still exists everywhere.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60429730280340784462018-10-01T10:53:59.263-07:002018-10-01T10:53:59.263-07:00I work at a N. end elementary school who lost a te...I work at a N. end elementary school who lost a teacher last week as well, very low FRL school. 1st and 2nd graders moved classes, created a split, etc. It's a problem district-wide that shouldn't happen to anyone. It shouldn't just be a numbers game when it comes to education. Build in more of an enrollment buffer as you know the numbers will vary. Another NWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13649899329877425292018-09-30T11:47:41.821-07:002018-09-30T11:47:41.821-07:00Did teachers force students to attend a political ...Did teachers force students to attend a political rally?<br /><br />It sounds like teachers brought in BLM. If so, does this mean teachers can bring in any group they want into a political rally? I'm thinking about precedents, here. The board needs a policy around this issue.<br /><br /><br />Questionnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19874940899416543932018-09-30T08:11:07.472-07:002018-09-30T08:11:07.472-07:00Its the culture of Garfield to protest. The reloca...Its the culture of Garfield to protest. The relocation of teachers (& no jobs are being lost) is happening across the district & Garfield cannot argue an equity argument logically within the bubble of only Garfield. I completely agree with this post: " Yeah, the class struggle argument rings pretty hollow since Garfield (F/RL 30%) is giving up 2 teachers and two schools with MUCH higher levels of poverty, Sealth (F/RL 62%) and Rainier Beach (F/RL 74%), are each gaining one.<br /><br />Why not agitate in Olympia for better funding for all public schools, Garfield? <br />KPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59595413426771513692018-09-29T16:16:15.864-07:002018-09-29T16:16:15.864-07:00Would the principal or the district decide which t...Would the principal or the district decide which teachers to cut at a high school? I doubt Ted Howard an African American principal made a racist decision. Perhaps Mr. H and also Ms. Powers are attributing it to sexism & racism because they are super sensitive to viewing things thru the lens of equity and issues of equity. It's true racism & sexism (& classism etc etc) is prevalent. Is it the reason for every decision? It has become the explanation for everything. <br /><br />observerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83116594955360632042018-09-29T15:42:34.392-07:002018-09-29T15:42:34.392-07:00The whole "class struggle" issue raised ...The whole "class struggle" issue raised by Garfield teacher Mr. H above is weird. In this article from March about the 25 most expensive houses for sale in Seattle, 14 of them are in the Garfield High School assignment zone.<br /><br />https://seattle.curbed.com/maps/most-expensive-homes-for-saleCamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1515736980860907302018-09-29T15:22:42.632-07:002018-09-29T15:22:42.632-07:00In the Stranger article
https://www.thestranger.co...In the Stranger article<br />https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/09/28/33049346/seattle-public-school-district-says-garfield-high-school-teachers-are-violating-their-contracts<br /><br />Rosa Powers, a language arts teacher at GHS, told the Stranger reporter, "The main reason we acted today is that the teachers who were cut today serve mostly students of color and lower income students. Those kids lost those programs."<br /><br />What is she talking about? What programs did "those kids" lose? G.H.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83336722320411617152018-09-29T12:18:51.582-07:002018-09-29T12:18:51.582-07:00How is this not unprofessional conduct? Students m...How is this not unprofessional conduct? Students missed instructional time and were supposedly threatened with detention if they left the gym. It does not matter whether or not some parents and students agreed with the message. This was not a school spirit rally, but forced political activity on student time. <br /><br />unbelievable<br />(well, it's GHS, so not that unbelievable)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46264385580368427912018-09-29T08:24:16.281-07:002018-09-29T08:24:16.281-07:00At some point in their lives, these same students ...At some point in their lives, these same students may experience job loss and layoffs. There are many lessons to be learned.<br /><br />Relocating 2 teachers is a definite inconvenience, but not a crisis.<br /><br />The Garfield protest machine gets old.Class schedulesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8175377217291217852018-09-29T08:09:19.686-07:002018-09-29T08:09:19.686-07:00Education Critically important
Is it? We have ov...Education Critically important <br /><br />Is it? We have overcrowded classrooms. Huge achievement gaps. Underfunded mandates. Transportation woes. On and on...<br /><br />Yet our economy is booming. We attract people from all parts of the US (hello east coasters) and even the world. World class companies are headquartered here, and many others have significant branch office locations. <br /><br />Would more "investment" in education "improve" things further? I doubt it. <br /><br />What would? Investments in public health, infrastructure and safety. What if we focus our energies toward helping those adddicted and mentally ill in our parks and on our streets?<br /><br />More lab equipment in our science classrooms? Is that more essential than green energy or improvements to public transit?<br /><br />I think we can acknowledge the elephant in the room. Education is not the vitally important "investment" that many claim it is or should be. It is one of many public responsibilities and it's funding and care must be balanced with many others. Vote Nonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63427060026839995822018-09-28T23:36:10.286-07:002018-09-28T23:36:10.286-07:00Thank you, FNH
-Supporter246
Thank you, FNH<br /><br />-Supporter246<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17126450240874637732018-09-28T23:33:35.070-07:002018-09-28T23:33:35.070-07:00The Garfield community that I am a part of overwhe...The Garfield community that I am a part of overwhelmingly supports its superlative teachers for calling attention to the District's corrosive budgeting strategy that treats teachers as widgets in a just-in-time inventory system, with little apparent regard to students (and teachers). It is not bitterness over losing teachers to other schools that could use them; it's about losing teachers AT ALL at this point in the school year, to schools which should have these teachers already in place. Direct your bilious anger toward District and the state lege which choose NOT to prioritize education and fund all schools amply and dependably from the beginning of each school year.<br /><br />FNHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89168361474091774582018-09-28T23:21:34.415-07:002018-09-28T23:21:34.415-07:00Does Garfield offer an AP Protest class???
Does Garfield offer an AP Protest class??? <br /><br />Class Schedulesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19378111564966028412018-09-28T23:04:42.549-07:002018-09-28T23:04:42.549-07:00Regarding enrollment numbers, didn't both Garf...Regarding enrollment numbers, didn't both Garfield and Roosevelt had wait lists?<br />I just can't find the links, but if my memory doesn't fail me, then why didn't they let kids move into those schools?<br />The sad truth is that next year will be brutal for GHS with Lincoln opening. Hopefully central administration will do a better job at predicting enrollment. <br /><br />-Supporter246 <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11043878960880115602018-09-28T22:55:32.734-07:002018-09-28T22:55:32.734-07:00Here is a link to the South Seattle Emerald piece ...Here is a link to the South Seattle Emerald piece covering the protest at GHS today:<br /><br />https://southseattleemerald.com/2018/09/28/garfield-students-teachers-protest-displacement-of-two-educators/<br /><br />Ruthie Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com