tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post726737148484227414..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Common GroundMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23607750933712797612012-01-20T10:49:32.262-08:002012-01-20T10:49:32.262-08:00I've always believed it gets down to one word:...I've always believed it gets down to one word: power. We live in a time when power is being redistributed from the many to the few. Why is this so clear to some of us? <br /><br />No cognitive dissonance for me. This country is immersed in it. To fail to see it is to be blind. Go back to Sahila's first post and link. Therein lies the answer.<br /><br />Will we change it? I hope so. If all the people on this blog were actively protesting with the occupiers and teachers, I would have more hope.<br /><br />northenderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14434200778055486692012-01-20T07:38:57.144-08:002012-01-20T07:38:57.144-08:00David asked a really good question:
"What I ...David asked a really good question:<br /><br />"<i>What I don't understand is why we cannot find common ground on that. You would think it would be uncontroversial that the SPS central administration needs to be deeply cut and its mission scaled back. You would think that the charter school supports and reform movement would oppose board members and superintendents who try to centralize and try to increase the size and power of administration. But I see no evidence of that, and, in fact, see a lot of the opposite. Any idea why that might be the case?</i>"<br /><br />Think of our own recent history. Our previous superintendent, who was a perfect darling of the Education Reform Movement, was all about centralizing authority at the JSCEE. She pushed hard for standardized texts and even scripted lessons. David is right that this is perfectly antithetical to the post-industrial education model promoted by Ed Reformers. So what's up with that?<br /><br />Honestly, I can't say. I try to be diligent about not making conjecture about the motivations of others. As I often write, I don't know my own motivations most of the time, so I certainly can't claim to know anyone else's. Possible options, however, run from the Machiavellian ("We're going to make things so bad the people will beg for a revolution, then we will give them OUR revolution.") to the nuanced ("First we have to get the basics right everywhere before we can move on to variations to suit individual needs.") to the simple ("I just admire and want strong leadership.")<br /><br />It does, however, present a cognitive dissonance that should be explored. I suggest asking them.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11631835352812860172012-01-19T20:42:09.561-08:002012-01-19T20:42:09.561-08:00An aside about Kodak, until a couple years ago, th...An aside about Kodak, until a couple years ago, they subsidized a falcon residence on their tower (the Kodak birdcam). For several years I watched Mariah and Kaver raise their offspring until finally Kaver Disappeared and Mariah was vanquished by a younger female. The nest has been moved because they had to renovate the tower. <br /><br />An era has come to an end. <br /><br />Thanks for the information, Patrick. I did read some time ago that they could have maintained their status but made some poor decisions. Perhaps they, too, died due to decision by committee at the top, aka bureaucratic-itis.<br /><br />Thanks to Sahila for her link to Gary Rubenstein's blog. That was interesting. Someone should forward it to Jon Bridge and Susan Enfield.<br /><br />northenderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65744698612736025282012-01-19T20:21:25.722-08:002012-01-19T20:21:25.722-08:00Kodak is sad... Word on the street is that their r...Kodak is sad... Word on the street is that their researchers had digital photography 30 years before anybody else, but Kodak didn't develop and market it because it would cut into their film, paper, and photochemicals business. By the time other companies had digital photography, Kodak was too far behind to catch up.<br /><br />I don't think they did particularly well in the last 10 years or so either. Kodachrome was the best color slide film in the world in many respects -- excellent color for landscapes, excellent skin tones, unmatched archival stability. Kodak was the only maker. Yet instead of pushing this advantage, they didn't even mention Kodachrome in the "what film to chose" web site or their literature. It was like a stepchild they were ashamed of. And they reduced the number of labs that developed it until only one was left, so for people who wouldn't pay an arm and a leg for overnight shipping turnaround was in the weeks for most people using it. Kodak said they were giving it up in order to concentrate on digital photography, in which half a dozen different companies have them beaten soundly in every respect.<br /><br />I miss Kodak of its glory days. Kodak of the last few years has just been waiting to die.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16260807460417787614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85196851541114658512012-01-19T18:54:45.116-08:002012-01-19T18:54:45.116-08:00WSDWG, Supra.WSDWG, Supra.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84666368905518290262012-01-19T18:54:17.698-08:002012-01-19T18:54:17.698-08:00So, the most comprehensive study on Charters to da...So, the most comprehensive study on Charters to date, the Stanford CREDO study, led by Linda Darling-Hammond who was almost the Sec'y of Ed, and qualified for the position, as opposed to Duncan, found that only 17% outperformed conventional schools, while over 40% did no better, and 33% did worse. So, comparing apples to apples, <i>83% of that diverted money was produced nothing of value, and in fact, produced substantially worse results, on average.</i> <br /><br />Add in the fact that charters were free from School Board oversight, and receive more money per pupil (50% to 250% more) than conventional schools, and yet muster greater gains than the "failing" schools we have and lament only 17% of the time? <i>And which model is labeled a failure?</i><br /><br />Seriously, are Charter proponents insane? If people want them to be free of district meddling, I can buy that, but where does this myth of Charters being so great come from? <br /><br />Charters are dogs folks! Absolute, verifiable, indisputable dogs! Given all their advantages over conventional schools, Charters down right suck! <br /><br />Regretfully to date, I've allowed that if people really want charters, they should have them, but I can't defend that position anymore. Given their dubious performance results and per-pupil cost premiums, Charters have proven to be distracting, money-sucking failures. <br /><br />Its time to blow the lid off this scam, and let Pettigrew and Co. know how we feel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15430401906642584812012-01-19T18:47:47.400-08:002012-01-19T18:47:47.400-08:00northender -
Your Kodak story is sooooooo sad. W...northender - <br /><br />Your Kodak story is sooooooo sad. When did you work there? ;) <br /><br />I honestly do NOT know what happened to Kodak, but, based upon the last 30 years <br /><br />(pst - the crap Romney did with Bain, wrecking good companies and wrecking lives, was The Game Plan since raygun was elected in 1980, PERIOD.) <br /><br />my bet is that they've invested tooooo much money into fancy MBAs and fancy CON-sultants and sophisticated re-orgs ... nevermind the usual suspects of venal management who plundered.<br /><br />I could be wrong ... except some variant of that story is correct for over 95% of American companies in the last 30 years, so, I'm wrong 1/20 times. yawn. <br /><br />IF there was some sector of the American economy which hadn't been run into the ground, I'd be willing to give a shot. When the de-Formers string pullers show up with yet another load of doublethink - isn't it about time to call them what they are? <br /><br />AntagonistsFoesVillains.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72049848005733586592012-01-19T18:39:19.668-08:002012-01-19T18:39:19.668-08:00DWE, you're right about 1546. Maybe the best ...DWE, you're right about 1546. Maybe the best thing to come from all of this is that schools will make some real changes to serve the population that is not at standard, not graduating, or not graduating without needing remedial courses at a community college. Maybe parents and teachers and whoever else does not want charter schools will make some concerted efforts to help schools serve every student.<br /><br />seateachAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86572394778167023452012-01-19T17:49:49.458-08:002012-01-19T17:49:49.458-08:00From Huffington POst today:
http://www.huffingt...From Huffington POst today: <br />http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-van-roekel/chester-upland-schools_b_1216856.html?ref=education<br /><br />Crisis In Chester Upland: Putting Private Profits Above Student Success <br /><br />I am one of those who believes there is an effort in this country to remove all "socialist" support for the people. There is money to be made in turning everything into profit. I sometimes think we are redirecting our efforts to small offshoots of the bigger problem. <br /><br />And, Charlie, I think those who support reform and charters are operating from "belief" more than fact. Hard to change that. <br /><br />northenderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45597814794979782572012-01-19T16:53:45.098-08:002012-01-19T16:53:45.098-08:00And Rosie, that's just plain old being pragmat...And Rosie, that's just plain old being pragmatic.<br /><br />Is this the right time for this discussion? That's my dismay. And I sincerely mean that. The timing of it baffles me. <br /><br />We are underfunding existing schools. <br /><br />Bringing on charter schools will only thin the pot of money for districts (and they, too, will be underfunded). Districts, because of the number of schools they cover, can work off some costs by volume. But if they lose students, then it becomes more difficult.<br /><br />The numbers coming out of Olympia - $33M by 2015-2017 - is just money we do not have. Where will that come from?<br /><br />And, we have two innovation laws that are just starting (and working out according to testimony by Bob Butts at OSPI) as well as lighthouse school laws (which help schools with mentoring and guidance from schools and districts that already have STEM schools). <br /><br />Why can't we allow those to work?Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76833249675983717992012-01-19T16:35:15.452-08:002012-01-19T16:35:15.452-08:00Regarding the fiscal note -- that really underscor...Regarding the fiscal note -- that really underscores my strongly held belief that this is not the time to be discussing charters. Let's solve the problem of providing for "basic education." Once that nut is cracked/egg is peeled/salad is dressed, we can role out the discussion/debate of new ideas.RosieReaderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16509678140588070623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38453191548534866732012-01-19T16:06:43.268-08:002012-01-19T16:06:43.268-08:00BTW,
The fiscal notes for the charter bills are i...BTW,<br /><br />The fiscal notes for the charter bills are in. The note for the House bill appears to be more complete and puts the mature cost at $34 million per biennium. <br /><br />DWEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29198331089773511862012-01-19T16:06:22.601-08:002012-01-19T16:06:22.601-08:00my forgotten continuation...
As for curriculum, w...<i>my forgotten continuation...</i><br /><br />As for curriculum, when I taught at a school that was a busing destination for very poor Holly Park kids, the simple act of reading aloud <i>a lot</i> turned the key into motivating them to want to read. Our current schedule gives lip service to read aloud but decreases time for it immensely. My success with at-risk kids was acknowledged at my school.<br /><br />Teaching is inspiring children to learn. To want to do the work of learning. <br />From Huffington POst today: <br />http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-van-roekel/chester-upland-schools_b_1216856.html?ref=education<br /><br />Crisis In Chester Upland: Putting Private Profits Above Student Success <br /><br />I am one of those who believes there is an effort in this country to remove all "socialist" support for the people There is money to made in turning everything into profit and that's where we are headed. I hope you read it. I sometimes think we are redirecting our efforts to small offshoots of the bigger problem. <br /><br />And, Charlie, I think those who support reform and charters are honestly propagandized more than truly informed. <br /><br />northenderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71021027799940714502012-01-19T16:01:30.793-08:002012-01-19T16:01:30.793-08:00RosieReader,
The two bills currently before the l...RosieReader,<br /><br />The two bills currently before the legislature (HB 2428 and SB 6202) allow only nonprofit corporations to be charter applicants. Thus, the bill you would write is possibly the bill before the legislature.<br /><br />These bills would allow, I believe, KIPP to do business in Washington State. If KIPP is what you want in Washington, then so be it. But I think it would be wise to take a closer look at KIPP before advocating nonprofit charters in our state.<br /><br />In the meantime, HB 1546, passed last year, does much of what charter advocates want without the cons of having nonprofit corporations such as KIPP doing business with taxpayer moneys.<br /><br />DWEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13096197796841529982012-01-19T15:54:36.536-08:002012-01-19T15:54:36.536-08:00Sorry - one more! @zb: charters take advantage of...Sorry - one more! @zb: charters take advantage of labor. That's part of my concern about the bigger societal problem. <br /><br />northenderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23706308708296486772012-01-19T15:53:52.700-08:002012-01-19T15:53:52.700-08:00An assumption is made here that charters are doing...An assumption is made here that charters are doing innovative things. I've been in quite a few charters in both Arizona and Utah, and believe me, there's been nothing innovative going on in their classrooms. They are the traditional classrooms, oftentimes moreso since they frequently have untrained people as teachers who go with what is safe - the direct instruction mode. One charter school I visited in Utah was using 30-year-old curricular materials - the basal reader series I used when I was an elementary school student - because the principal got a "deal" when one of the school districts was dumping their outdated surplus book depository inventory in the dumpster. <br />As for management - well, I've heard enough horror stories about charter school management (missing funds, schools closing their doors midway through the year, ignoring parental concerns, teachers not getting paychecks for 3 months, etc.) - that I don't see any advantage to moving to that system. I'd rather work with what we've got and fix it than introduce a shell game and spread scarce resources even thinner.CTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2719198824345455452012-01-19T15:53:17.820-08:002012-01-19T15:53:17.820-08:00@AntagonistsFoes&Villains:
My first job in hi...@AntagonistsFoes&Villains:<br /><br />My first job in high school was with Eastman. I have been loyal to that company ever since. They valued employees like nobody else. But they didn't keep up. Quality but complacency? I don't know. I'm so sorry. Like a death i the family for me. <br /><br />northenderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34233465193395934792012-01-19T15:27:55.394-08:002012-01-19T15:27:55.394-08:00(continuing)
As for curriculum, when I taught at a...(continuing)<br />As for curriculum, when I taught at a school that was a busing destination for very poor Holly Park kids, the simple act of reading aloud <i>a lot</i> turned the key into motivating them to want to read. Our current schedule gives lip service to read aloud but decreases time for it immensely. My success with at-risk kids was acknowledged at my school.<br /><br />Teaching is inspiring children to learn. To want to do the work of learning. <br /><br /><br /><br />Please read this from Huffington POst today: <br /><br />http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-van-roekel/chester-upland-schools_b_1216856.html?ref=education<br /><br />Crisis In Chester Upland: Putting Private Profits Above Student Success <br /><br /><br />I am one of those who believes there is an effort in this country to remove all "socialist" support for the people There is money to made in turning everything into profit and that's where we are headed. <br /><br />I hope you read it. I sometimes think we are redirecting our efforts to small offshoots of the bigger problem. <br /><br />And, Charlie, I think those who support reform and charters are honestly propagandized more than truly informed. <br /><br />northenderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80355568976181032272012-01-19T15:27:28.842-08:002012-01-19T15:27:28.842-08:00Lots of thinking here. I think you contradict you...Lots of thinking here. I think you contradict yourself in the first couple of paragraphs where you want seaner admin but then list so many positions that it defeats the "leaner." Those are not all needed positions. Principals can take care of many of them. So can good community oversight where that is possible. <br /><br /><i>There is a shift from the "sage on the stage" to the "guide on the side." </i> That's a new one for me and I love it! That is exactly what teachers should be doing. One of the immediate problems with it is that MAP assesses more knowledge than thinking. I've been spending the snow days really reading the map RIT levels wherein they tell each point tested. I would be interested to hear from other teachers what they think about that. Of course, I'm reading the primary stuff so maybe the 3-5 is better.<br /><br />As a teacher, I've put an alternate schedule including longer days and a longer year on the table since I started teaching. Our kids are expected to operate at twice the level they were even twenty years ago and yet we have to do it in the limited school day and school year? Yet, many teachers do not want change. Many families - esp. in the higher SES population - are against it. I see no reason that neighborhood schools shouldn't set their own hours, days and year. Perhaps busing needs to be worked out by commuities. Childrens' schedules and family vacations would have to be modified. <br /><br />(As an aside, I'd love a 7 or 71/2 hour day four days a week, 3 1/2 hours on Friday and then the afternoon open to prepare for the folowing week. But, that's me. Prepping for current teaching expectations is impossible.) <br />(to be continued) <br /><br />northenderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27932974397630792242012-01-19T15:25:16.390-08:002012-01-19T15:25:16.390-08:00I supported charter schools way back when, before ...I supported charter schools way back when, before the results started coming back. I agree with Charlie that there are some reasonable people arguing for charter schools, and I think the more they learn the dismal results, the more will turn against it. Those are the people you can reach with logic. On the other hand, I'm dismayed how many of the charter boosters seem averse to discussing actual data, and resort to personal attacks.<br /><br />Charlie's points about the HQ disconnect is spot on, also. I don't think it's unique to Seattle Schools to have a HQ lacking in teaching experience who serve a bloated bureaucracy. I see it in some Federal bureaus where the staff outside the Beltway, who have actual program experience, are looked down upon. It doesn't happen in well-run organizations.<br /><br />dreamer, thanks for the summary of the Rather Report on Finnish schools. The Atlantic had a very good analysis of Finnish schools last month, and debunks some of the myths about them that reformers don't like to discuss:<br /><br />http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/12/what-americans-keep-ignoring-about-finlands-school-success/250564/Ebenezerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17105475236728081779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22224945959130367072012-01-19T15:13:42.258-08:002012-01-19T15:13:42.258-08:00"In truth there are some things that charters..."In truth there are some things that charters are doing and trying now which have proven successful just as there are some things that alternative schools do that have proven successful."<br /><br />But, my impression is that most of the things that things that charters do that are successful cost money (well or require free labor) or removing students ("counseling" out). <br /><br />My take on why I think it's pretty much impossible for me to find common ground is that though I might agree, for example, that a longer school day and required parent involvement might improve outcomes for disadvantaged students, I think the charter solution isn't implementing these solutions, but implementing them in a way that exploits those working in the classroom. On one hand, we could support such a solution "for the children." But, I think it's an unsustainable solution. <br /><br />I also strongly believe that counseling out and self-selection end up playing a significant role. I know some studies try to control for those effects, but am not completely convinced. <br /><br />Also, I think some of the models for improvement will fair when one tries to scale them up. <br /><br />(zb)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10811593206267788192012-01-19T13:45:16.116-08:002012-01-19T13:45:16.116-08:00Two important, informative snow day reads:
KIPP A...Two important, informative snow day reads:<br /><br /><a href="http://escholarship.org/uc/item/0vs9d4fr#" rel="nofollow">KIPP Attrition Rate Study</a><br /><br />and <br /><br /><a href="http://garyrubinstein.teachforus.org/2011/10/31/why-i-did-tfa-and-why-you-shouldnt/" rel="nofollow">TFA insider says "vote no" on TFA</a>. <br /><br />LookBeforeYouLeapAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58614886369169761822012-01-19T13:30:20.708-08:002012-01-19T13:30:20.708-08:00There was a perfectly dreadful piece in Crosscut t...There was a perfectly dreadful piece in Crosscut today by David Brewster in which he threw a little tantrum at the idea that the "new" board might indulge in some kind of micro-management of the superintendent.<br /><br />Where was his horror and outrage as the previous superintendent micromanaged teachers?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28716284108764201402012-01-19T13:04:23.548-08:002012-01-19T13:04:23.548-08:00Yawn.
I'd love to see ideas modeled on flow ...Yawn. <br /><br />I'd love to see ideas modeled on flow charts - how many steps & tasks will it take to implement each idea? I'd love to see each step and task costed out in time to execute. I'd love to see dollar estimates of the cost of that time.<br /><br />Maybe then, after we figure out what ideas cost in time and money, we could prioritize? <br /><br />Now, I'm going to do a little of what the reform myth makers do - I'm going to take 1 example to make a bigger point, only my point is accurate. Eastman Kodak filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy today. Most American corporate management over the last 3 decades have been a mix of parasites and plundering pirates. The public sector managements have been consistently incompetent, and paid far less. <br /><br />What do the string pullers of reform offer, other than lies?<br /><br />AntagonistsFoesVillains.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70776461704745444962012-01-19T13:00:14.246-08:002012-01-19T13:00:14.246-08:00Common ground only if you seek it and really work ...Common ground only if you seek it and really work toward it. QAE works just like Mercer because of the people there. The school has staff who collaborate, are supportive of one another, experienced, enthusiastic and focused. The school is not perfect, but works because there is trust and infectious energy in the building. Amazing what you can do when there is trust and collaboration. These things aren't something you can legislate or charter. A pity.<br /><br />Just caught a show on Finnish Education on Dan Rather Reports and what caught my attention on the much touted Finnish system was what the principal and teachers said. They all mentioned the key to their success is the amount of work and time they put into establishing trust and collaboration so that teachers have the freedom and support to practice successfully. Teachers are CONSTANTLY EVALUATED through self evaluation, peers, and supervisors. NOT by standardized test scores. Neither are their students. <br /><br />My 5th grader wrote an essay recently. Her topic was on education and the 4 things she wanted to change to benefit her learning.<br /><br />1. Smaller class size. How can a teacher teach you if they can't get to your question or doesn't know your name or your needs? (How can we compete with class size of 20 with not just 1 primary teacher, but a 2nd teacher who walks around to help out.)<br /><br />2. Longer recess/lunch time. Time needed to eat, play, properly, unwind, be active. (Finnish school has a 15" break in AM, and a 75" break for lunch/recess and school ends at 1:15PM for primary schools. My kids LOVE, LOVE it!)<br /><br />3. Reduce summer vacation time, offset that by increasing the time of school year breaks. Long summer vacation makes it tough to remember things you've learned ("unless your parents make you do some studying.. GROAN!") Longer breaks during the school year means more time off for family travels, holidays, and less time missing school. <br /><br />4. Less homework and more meaningful homework. Wants more active learning in school including more hands on projects and more hands on experiments. Homework should reflect what is being learned in school. <br /><br />Funny thing, as I watched the Rather report, much of what was being practiced in Finnish schools to 9th grade was pretty much what my child wanted in her school. There is much more of course because it is harder to get into Fnnish "teacher college" than to get into med schools. Their teachers are well trained, supported, valued, and trusted. Their administration is tiny. (For a hysterical comparison, look at the ratio of the number of students: administrators in Finland with LA public school system.)<br /><br />http://www.hd.net/programs/danrather/<br /><br />-dreamerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com