tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post7475084032618525461..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Thurgood Marshall waiver misstepMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21161765137330791152016-09-04T13:38:02.282-07:002016-09-04T13:38:02.282-07:00Your questions, irony, are tedious and foolish. If...Your questions, irony, are tedious and foolish. If you have something to say then say it. You can state it plainly. Do you think I focus too much on advanced learning? Then say so. Do you think I don't pay enough attention to Special Education or ELL? Then say so.<br /><br />And then we can ask you "So what?" Am I under some obligation to grant proportionate column inches to each population? I don't think so. I write about the topics that I choose to write about and you read the posts that you choose to read about. If I don't write more about Special Education or ELL, it is probably because I don't pretend to be well informed about them. Unlike other folks, I don't write about topics that I don't know about.<br /><br />You might as well ask where are the posts about Northgate Elementary? Why all the talk about Garfield? That school has received disproportionate attention in this blog. Oh my stars! The inequity! We need to have all groups represented proportionately in the blog!<br /><br />If you don't think that special education or ELL or Addams Elementary have enough attention in this blog you are free to submit a guest post. No one is stopping you.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81596711683201818152016-09-04T13:37:48.506-07:002016-09-04T13:37:48.506-07:00It is tedious to have to answer such questions, bu...It is tedious to have to answer such questions, but it is even more tedious being criticized for failing to answer them.<br /><br />"<i>What types of special ed curriculum do we insist on having for students with disabilities?</i>"<br />No single curriculum for all but an IEP for each - as the law requires. I can't believe that you need me to tell you this.<br /><br />"<i>Why doesn't he ask repeatedly, for that?</i>"<br />Are you seriously asking why I don't repeatedly ask the district to obey the law? Seriously?<br /><br />"<i>Garbage Recycling for high school students? And maybe even advanced middle schoolers with disabilities? Is That something he thinks the board should investigate?</i>"<br />Yes. Thanks for asking.<br /><br />"<i>What should middle school students in self-contained special education be learning?</i>"<br />Whatever their IEPs dictate, of course. Again, does anyone really have to ask this question?<br /><br />"<i>How do we monitor effectiveness of that? I don't see Charlie writing about that.</i>"<br />Really? You don't? You don't see me advocating for program evaluations? Please try to pay better attention.<br /><br />"<i>What are the outcomes? It looks like ELL and special ed students aren't doing very well, doesn't that speak to problems in their education? What about ELL students? What are all those ELL teachers even doing? How do we know that are providing anything at all?</i>"<br />Thank you for joining me in calling for evaluations of all academic programs as required by Board Policy. You're late to the party, but we're happy to have your support.<br /><br />"<i>Is that all about the cohort too?</i>"<br />No. It isn't. There isn't a cohort model for ELL. It is provided in all schools now. That change was made just a couple years ago. Didn't you hear about it?<br /><br />"<i>Should ELL be siphoned off to "immersion" programs? That doesn't seem fair to students who have already been immersed, but great for English speakers.</i>"<br />I haven't spoken to this. Are you presuming to assign to me a position on this question?<br /><br />"<i>Where are the post on these topics?</i>"<br />Some of these are not legitimate topics, but ill-informed or mis-informed questions. As for the others, there are discussions of them on this blog. Where else do you see these topics discussed?<br /><br />"<i>Instead, according to Charlie, more and more board time and policy time is supposed to be devoted to one group. No matter how minute the issue. Even if the policy simply means sitting with a racially mixed group for *gasp* social studies.</i>"<br />Actually, no. A representative amount of Board time and policy time should be devoted to advanced learners. The Board has not actually given this group much attention historically. The Advanced Learning policy was updated in Phase I of the Policy Review project and was given almost no discussion. This population includes, as many have noted, a significant proportion of the District's student population. And who else should consider policy questions other than the Board.<br /><br />"<i>What about the same standards for all these others?</i>" I have absolutely no idea what this question refers to, but all students should have learning standards. All students. Right now the general education and special education students have them. It is the advanced learners who do not.<br />Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17885691899707958222016-09-02T09:20:10.202-07:002016-09-02T09:20:10.202-07:00I will end the conversation here but I will say th...I will end the conversation here but I will say that Charlie and I have - numerous times - spoken out about ELL and Sped and a whole host of issues around SPS. Anyone who reads this blog knows that. That many of you choose what you read is not something we can control. <br /><br />Do Charlie and I have special interests? Yes but it's our blog. But we cover all things large and small.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5500324389275973802016-09-02T09:00:47.620-07:002016-09-02T09:00:47.620-07:00Since CHarlie is so interested in special curricul...Since CHarlie is so interested in special curriculum and accountability: What types of special ed curriculum do we insist on having for students with disabilities? Why doesn't he ask repeatedly, for that? Garbage Recycling for high school students? And maybe even advanced middle schoolers with disabilities? Is That something he thinks the board should investigate? What should middle school students in self-contained special education be learning? How do we monitor effectiveness of that? I don't see Charlie writing about that. What are the outcomes? It looks like ELL and special ed students aren't doing very well, doesn't that speak to problems in their education? What about ELL students? What are all those ELL teachers even doing? How do we know that are providing anything at all? Is that all about the cohort too? Should ELL be siphoned off to "immersion" programs? That doesn't seem fair to students who have already been immersed, but great for English speakers.<br /><br />Where are the post on these topics? Instead, according to Charlie, more and more board time and policy time is supposed to be devoted to one group. No matter how minute the issue. Even if the policy simply means sitting with a racially mixed group for *gasp* social studies. What about the same standards for all these others?<br /><br />IronyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1668537329883155322016-09-02T08:41:42.168-07:002016-09-02T08:41:42.168-07:00Done, what and who are you talking about? I'...Done, what and who are you talking about? I'm not on the school board, and have never run for the school board. And mostly, I can use a spell checker. Perhaps you're talking about someone else.<br /><br />IronyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67255174903197366532016-09-02T00:02:29.135-07:002016-09-02T00:02:29.135-07:00Oh we are so fooled... I'm wondering:
Is bein...Oh we are so fooled... I'm wondering:<br /><br />Is being on your local school board exclusive? Yep, thankfully.<br /><br /><br />Done OffTopicingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76875306942502179532016-09-01T23:30:42.381-07:002016-09-01T23:30:42.381-07:00Right on sarco, and fwiw.
As a person who "a...Right on sarco, and fwiw.<br /><br />As a person who "adds nothing to the discussion", I seem to have plenty of people discussing things.<br /><br />OhThe IronyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5074081805084822422016-09-01T23:10:52.585-07:002016-09-01T23:10:52.585-07:00off topic = fwiw. too much to talk about so you co...off topic = fwiw. too much to talk about so you completely ignore the topic.<br /><br /><br />Weak<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16815804933987271432016-09-01T23:04:18.960-07:002016-09-01T23:04:18.960-07:00From the National Association for Gifted Children ...From the National Association for Gifted Children (caps mine):<br /><br />"Tests often EXCLUDE underserved gifted students who are English Language Learners (ELLs), disabled, or from minority or low-income backgrounds. An identification strategy that includes multiple assessments—both objective and subjective—is the best way to ensure no gifted learner is overlooked."<br /><br />SPS uses tests as the main entry point. Therefore, these students are EXCLUDED from the program, which is why the demographics are so skewed in favor of a particular demographic.<br /><br />From the same site:<br /><br />"Test norms should reflect the local demographic, not only national norms (important for districts with a greater number of individuals from minority or ethnic groups). In some cases, it is important to review subscores, as twice-exceptional students can be overlooked if only using a general score."<br /><br />https://www.nagc.org/resources-publications/gifted-education-practices/identification/tests-assessments<br /><br />FWIW<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36682295996099465332016-09-01T22:28:59.518-07:002016-09-01T22:28:59.518-07:00Votes are subjective based on what people feel abo...Votes are subjective based on what people feel about one candidate verses another. Not test. Sophist much? I would go with dyslexic-ish and OFF TOPIC but if you say so sarco, you do seem a touch objectively not capable. <br /><br />not grateful Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67801509615265017192016-09-01T22:13:02.241-07:002016-09-01T22:13:02.241-07:00I can't seem to get those two words straigt, I...I can't seem to get those two words straigt, I guess I'm objectively not capable.<br /><br />sarcoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43103400614193084062016-09-01T22:12:58.609-07:002016-09-01T22:12:58.609-07:00"Is UW exclusive? No, it's open to anyone..."Is UW exclusive? No, it's open to anyone.<br />Is Lakeside exclusive? No, it's open to anyone.<br />Is the U.S. Senate exclusive? No,it's open to anyone.<br />Is Queen Anne exclusive? No, it's open to anyone.<br />Is anything exclusive? No, not by Melissa's definition."<br /><br />UW - anyone can apply. It's a public university. <br />Lakeside - ditto but only if you have money and connections<br />U.S. Senate - exclusive because you have to be a certain age and have money<br />Queen Anne - if you have the money, you can live there<br /><br />This is all kind of silly. <br />Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09968394386175741783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11827389212433663612016-09-01T22:11:42.344-07:002016-09-01T22:11:42.344-07:00oops, I mean objective.
I guess slavery was obj...oops, I mean objective. <br /><br />I guess slavery was objectively a bad thing and its residual effect is also subjective and therefore irrelevant to the discussion. Any past injustice or their effects are also subjective and therefore have zero effect on the demographic imbalance of HCC.<br /><br />sarcoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87991569618864017632016-09-01T22:07:07.965-07:002016-09-01T22:07:07.965-07:00The US senate uses votes, a subjective measurement...The US senate uses votes, a subjective measurement, so it is open to all just like HC. Privilege and money and connections and race and gender have nothing to with any political office. They are all non-exclusive. <br /><br />And we see representative numbers of women and minorities in the Senate, right? Just like in HC, right?<br /><br />sarco<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8710352719215427892016-09-01T20:53:15.978-07:002016-09-01T20:53:15.978-07:00Oops spoke too soon. The difference Irony is that ...<br /><br />Oops spoke too soon. The difference Irony is that the Senate, Lakeside and UW use subjective criterion primarily for "enrollment."<br /><br />SPS for SpEd, ELL, FRL and HC all use objective criterion. But again this is about delivery and not selection. Get on topic.<br /><br />Not grateful Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1020836230361023012016-09-01T20:43:55.705-07:002016-09-01T20:43:55.705-07:00MGJ did not have to split Lowell when she did. She...<br />MGJ did not have to split Lowell when she did. She only did it to boost the the test scores at Hawthorne and TM both heavy FRL schools (also reducing percentages the next year of Title I). This is just one tactic in her over all strategic battle against tracked programs. <br /><br />She was fired because she didn't listen to anyone including the brilliant numbers folks warning against closing building. <br /><br />Irony is not one of those brilliant number parents and their representation of the historical split of Lowell and WMS is so wrong and prejudiced that it is easy to read one sentence and stop.<br /><br />Thank you for keep it to one moniker Irony.<br /><br />Grateful Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57537900708849058802016-09-01T19:54:46.865-07:002016-09-01T19:54:46.865-07:00Is UW exclusive? No, it's open to anyone.
Is ...Is UW exclusive? No, it's open to anyone. <br />Is Lakeside exclusive? No, it's open to anyone.<br />Is the U.S. Senate exclusive? No,it's open to anyone. <br />Is Queen Anne exclusive? No, it's open to anyone.<br />Is anything exclusive? No, not by Melissa's definition.<br /><br />sarcoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64706738563431075752016-09-01T18:47:58.098-07:002016-09-01T18:47:58.098-07:00Irony, I will say to you what I say to everyone wh...Irony, I will say to you what I say to everyone who uses false terminology like "excludes." The program does not exclude anyone. <br /><br />If the test is not a good one, that's on the district. If the district is not doing the enough/right kind of outreach, that's on the district. If principals are not talking to parents about this program, that's on the district.<br /><br />But the program, as it is set up, is open to everyone. That's not exclusion. <br /><br />Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09968394386175741783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28609775834687044662016-09-01T17:58:10.740-07:002016-09-01T17:58:10.740-07:00Communities were pitted at Lowell for many years b...Communities were pitted at Lowell for many years before the split. Special ed was supposed to be cancelled there to make room for the growing APP program. This idea was scrapped when special ed families pointed out that Lowell had multimillion dollar building enhancements, and otherwise threw a fit. Yes APP at 10% of enrollment, or 7%, or 5%, or even 2% cannot fit iton 1 building. And it can't fit in a building with additions for special education. 2% of 40,000 students is 2,000. And half of that (the elementary half) is 1,000, which is still too big for Lowell. That means a split is inevitable.<br /><br />Meany never housed APP. Washington did. And that has the same numbers problem that elementary does. As is, there's no room for many special education programs at Washington - which is supposed to be comprehensive. Notably. There's no Access program at Washington because there are so many HCC students.<br /><br />Since you asked, I deny your claim that this problem is the fault of MGJ, if there is a problem at all. Is there a problem? Some students may not be getting the absolute 100% best education that they could possibly have. Is that a problem? The problem, if it exists, is really parents insisting on a special cohort that excludes lots of people, but not really liking the cohort once they get it.<br /><br />IronyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65439677318435925052016-09-01T15:48:47.700-07:002016-09-01T15:48:47.700-07:00Placing APP in TM decreased Title 1 funds and comm...Placing APP in TM decreased Title 1 funds and communities were immediately pitted against each other. Those were not good times.<br />Watchingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62912995133247765092016-09-01T15:18:30.906-07:002016-09-01T15:18:30.906-07:00Charlie is correct in saying that MGJ- may she res...Charlie is correct in saying that MGJ- may she rest in peace- placed a advanced learning program in Thurgood Marshall. In doing so, the FRL numbers decreased and the school was no longer eligible for Title 1 funding. As you can imagine, the community was upset. Watchingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21991327472215237642016-09-01T15:17:12.589-07:002016-09-01T15:17:12.589-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80317116454570771072016-09-01T14:43:41.026-07:002016-09-01T14:43:41.026-07:00"Degradation of Spectrum"
Charlie, you ..."Degradation of Spectrum"<br /><br />Charlie, you recently had a post about the inequities in Spectrum and how it should be dismantled. Your wording here makes it sound like it was something worth preserving, even though I anticipate you will say that you meant that MGJ wasn't doing her job.<br /><br />Words matter, right?<br /><br />FWIWAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72416955420107397592016-09-01T14:40:35.609-07:002016-09-01T14:40:35.609-07:00For reference:
Closer to 10% of students are qual...For reference:<br /><br />Closer to 10% of students are qualified for HC. 7% participate in HCC.<br /><br />The state average is 4.7% participation in HC, including eastside schools like Bellevue.<br /><br /><br />FWIW<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67426406532729485232016-09-01T14:35:38.786-07:002016-09-01T14:35:38.786-07:00MGJ also brought MT to SPS from Charleston. He'...MGJ also brought MT to SPS from Charleston. He's still with us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com