tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post7649857220168985806..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Upcoming Board Work Session and Board MeetingMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger110125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22496133493122721032010-10-05T16:02:51.302-07:002010-10-05T16:02:51.302-07:00Wseadawg -better yet Sahila's 11:17 post with ...Wseadawg -better yet Sahila's 11:17 post with link. Based on what I just read re: the cost associated with the high attrition of TFA, SPS cannot afford them.another momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12303476240929715442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83134821200173764912010-10-05T15:41:36.161-07:002010-10-05T15:41:36.161-07:00Wsedawg -scroll up to Sahila's 7:38 AM post fr...Wsedawg -scroll up to Sahila's 7:38 AM post from this morning. There is a link to a review that says looking past the spin. The percentages that TFA quotes are from alums who self report what they are doing. The percentage of those who say that they stay in education is much lower than they report.another momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12303476240929715442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46915353276007535842010-10-05T14:53:55.775-07:002010-10-05T14:53:55.775-07:00@chris... yes, lets apply... and when we are turne...@chris... yes, lets apply... and when we are turned down, in addition to the age discrimination I wonder if I could sue them for discrimination by calling my perimenopausal fog a disability????Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63046761714439419852010-10-05T14:48:14.720-07:002010-10-05T14:48:14.720-07:00Anonymom: That 34% leave after 3 years # seems aw...Anonymom: That 34% leave after 3 years # seems awfully low compared to the percentages I looked at a year or two ago. Regardless, it is true that a high percentage of TFA teachers are in charter schools nationwide, and charters themselves purge themselves of huge percentages of kids who can't keep up with the rigor, then pat themselves on the backs for their high graduation rates. Cooking the books like that is absolutely scandalous and fraudulent. In Florida, for example, another pro Ed Reform state, they were aggressively counseling failing students to take GEDs, then wiping them off the books, so it looked like they were improving their graduation rates. NYC is a hotbed of similar shell games and tricks to inflate graduation rates and build momentum for the Ed Reform agenda. So my advice is to google alot, educate yourself, and DO NOT take people at their word in this context, because they are not telling the truth. <br /><br />I would suggest that the high impact rates you're seeing with TFA grads are partially inflated by the kids who go missing from their classes and are then purged from the records of their charter schools. If it seems to good to be true...<br /><br />There are no magic solutions.wseadawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750439461734046035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15385687741097423422010-10-05T14:43:28.920-07:002010-10-05T14:43:28.920-07:00Oops, my planned protest has a flaw - we are waaaa...Oops, my planned protest has a flaw - we are waaaaay to experienced to be analogous to TFA. It would have to be Sahila being an analyst, me being the supe. We'll call ourselves AFA - Administrate for America.<br /><br />My new idea, Sahila, is that we apply to TFA! A few weeks and we could be making 50K! I was certainly good and bright in my day although perhaps the Univ. of Iowa is not elite enough. More likely we'd end up suing them for age discrimination...Chris S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17016898261120819596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16419623598865530532010-10-05T11:17:11.131-07:002010-10-05T11:17:11.131-07:00Read here:
Teach for America, A Review of the Evi...Read here:<br /><br /><a href="http://greatlakescenter.org/docs/Policy_Briefs/Heilig_TeachForAmerica.pdf" rel="nofollow">Teach for America, A Review of the Evicence</a>Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11680390358269629092010-10-05T11:12:11.063-07:002010-10-05T11:12:11.063-07:00and you do know that TFAs will cost the district a...and you do know that TFAs will cost the district around $2,500 each, in "placement" fees, dont you? That's on top of their salary (around $50K) plus benefits...<br /><br /><i>"Large-scale, peer-reviewed studies in Arizona and Texas - conducted under the auspices of prestigious research laboratories, involving thousands of teachers and over 100,000 students - show that the program's teachers are almost as good as poorly qualified (that is, uncertified) teachers at raising kids' reading scores and a bit better at raising kids' math scores.<br /><br />But when comparing the program's teachers with fully qualified teachers, it's a different story. A 2010 study called Teach For America: A Review of the Evidence found "standard certified teachers consistently outperformed uncertified Teach For America teachers with comparable experience in similar settings."<br /><br />Each study comes to about the same conclusion: The program's teachers are slightly better than the least prepared but far worse than the fully prepared. When the program's teachers take additional course work in education and get additional supervision, mentoring and experience, they improve.<br /><br />Why is this? Because teaching takes YEARS to master and cannot be learned in a few weeks before school starts."</i><br /><a href="http://queensteacher2.blogspot.com/2010/08/teach-for-america-bad-deal-for-public.html" rel="nofollow">http://queensteacher2.blogspot.com/2010/08/teach-for-america-bad-deal-for-public.html</a>Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65330082175543361512010-10-05T10:19:19.355-07:002010-10-05T10:19:19.355-07:00Reminder: Forum with Diane Ravitch tonight at 7:00...Reminder: Forum with Diane Ravitch tonight at 7:00 at Seattle University<br /><br />See <a href="http://seattleducation2010.wordpress.com/2010/09/21/forum-with-diane-ravitch-press-release/" rel="nofollow">http://seattleducation2010.wordpress.com/2010/09/21/forum-with-diane-ravitch-press-release/</a><br />for more details<br /><br />Teachers get 3 clock hours credit....<br /><br />Free for everyone, all welcome...Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19784586081260085312010-10-05T10:08:09.936-07:002010-10-05T10:08:09.936-07:00Thank goodness for courts.
The 9th circuit issued ...Thank goodness for courts.<br />The 9th circuit issued and opinion last week that could be a real monkey wrench for the TFA crowd. The case concerned whether uncertified "teachers" (like TFA teachers) are "highly qualified" to teach in Title I schools. If they are not, then the schools are out of compliance with No Child Left Behind and are not eligible for Title I dollars.<br /><br />Here's a link to a story about the case:<br /><br />http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/school_law/2010/09/federal_highly_qualified_teach.htmlTeachers need education too.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56249178051155529052010-10-05T09:37:56.432-07:002010-10-05T09:37:56.432-07:00All good points, Chris, especially the reference t...All good points, Chris, especially the reference to comparing TFA performance in math to other EDM districts - apples to apples.<br /><br />Thanks also to, anothermom. I think you are right - it is a huge plus for certification to have a teacher trainee spend a full semester interning in a classroom, under the supervision of an experienced mentor teacher.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91679118050901833212010-10-05T09:07:18.978-07:002010-10-05T09:07:18.978-07:00anonymom from the WSU website,
"Student teac...anonymom from the WSU website,<br /><br />"Student teaching is an entire semester of full time teaching at an approved WSU site in the state of Washington or internationally with supervision by an approved WSU provider."<br /><br />They at least get classroom experience prior to being hired. Not sure if TFA does anything in their summer training that is equivalent. <br /><br />http://education.wsu.edu/tl/programs/another momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12303476240929715442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32141265950047296282010-10-05T08:42:22.337-07:002010-10-05T08:42:22.337-07:00Sahila, I was thinking more of MGJ's job for y...Sahila, I was thinking more of MGJ's job for you. I'm an analyst, I'll take Bernatek's. Meg for CFO, Melissa for COO/Facilities/Capital...Hmmm, who can take over governance training for the board?Chris S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17016898261120819596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59461107101272568852010-10-05T08:39:43.206-07:002010-10-05T08:39:43.206-07:00Anonymom, I was also looking at TFA's website...Anonymom, I was also looking at TFA's website research page yesterday. One thing to note is that the effect sizes are small, and at least half the citations (skewed toward the ones who find an effect) are not peer-reviewed.<br /><br />Also, on Dora's blog, links to references are on the right. You have to scroll waaaaay down but there's a section on TFA with one very nice peer-reviewed paper.<br /><br />Without knowing a lot of details about the TFA training, I don't think we can answer you about how it compares to teacher certification. <br /><br />What I wanted to know is the TFA results in EDM (Everyday Math) districts. That the TFA effect is limited to math is very interesting, and one might suspect that TFA "graduates," not being steeped in constructivist math, do more direct instruction, which would be good for test scores (I am undecided about whether it's good for learning.)<br /><br />In general, for the rest of your questions, TFA teachers are similar in performance and retention to teachers <i>in demographically similar schools</i> which likely includes more rookie teachers, but not certificated teachers in general. This suggests that TFA cannot cure poverty. Darn...<br /><br />It's also worth noting from the TFA website they are clearly focused on serving lower-income schools. So which SPS schools would be eligible? Where's the community engagement for those communities?Chris S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17016898261120819596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26635489812909870252010-10-05T08:39:00.495-07:002010-10-05T08:39:00.495-07:00Chris - I've got a cert in broadcast journalis...Chris - I've got a cert in broadcast journalism.... I'll teach language arts... and you're a statistician right? You can teach math...Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61366951621932742010-10-05T08:37:06.817-07:002010-10-05T08:37:06.817-07:00Chris - I think my 30+ years of parenting and vol...Chris - I think my 30+ years of parenting and volunteering in schools qualifies me to be a teacher... I need a job... give me one of the ones that'll be reserved for a TFA... where do I join the queue?Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11889503554657437352010-10-05T08:35:02.666-07:002010-10-05T08:35:02.666-07:00Anonymom... when you find them, why dont you repor...Anonymom... when you find them, why dont you report all those interesting data points back to the blog, as we others have done with what we have found out....<br /><br />No doubt we'd be most appreciative...Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-2609821392520716502010-10-05T08:28:49.451-07:002010-10-05T08:28:49.451-07:00Why don't I go to Dora's blog? Well, I did...Why don't I go to Dora's blog? Well, I did, but I didn't find anything of substance. She posts her opinions about TFA, and that is fine, but I am looking for facts. I want data, and comparisons, and statistics. .<br /><br />I'd like to hear what experience other non charter districts have had with TFA? Were they positive or negative? And why?<br /><br />I'd like to know how many hours new SPS teachers spend in "teacher specific" classes during the year long certification program they attend? Is it comparable to TFA teachers @ 200 hours? Is it more, about the same, or less? <br /><br />I'd like to know how and why the students of TFA teachers perform slightly better than the students of regular teachers (this is according to the TFA website, not sure if it is accurate or true). <br /><br />I'd like to know how many new SPS teachers leave the teaching profession after 2 years, 3 years, 5 years? Is it comparable to TFAs 34% after 3 years?<br /><br />I wonder if a young, enthusiastic, freshly trained TFA teacher, might be a better option for my child than an experienced, but "force hired" SPS teacher from the displaced pool? <br /><br />These are some of my questions. I'm working on finding out some answers, and am doing some research. <br /><br />If Dora knows the answers to some of my questions, I welcome her to provide them.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30493670313941250742010-10-05T08:26:50.819-07:002010-10-05T08:26:50.819-07:00I'm sitting here trying to imagine what Sahila...I'm sitting here trying to imagine what Sahila's active protest would look like and how's this? We parents show up at JSCEE on 9:00 on a Monday morning wearing tags that say "5 weeks training" and tell them we are there to do their jobs. Probably involves getting arrested...Chris S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17016898261120819596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11001079172600371542010-10-05T08:25:18.038-07:002010-10-05T08:25:18.038-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7964882654238199532010-10-05T08:19:05.510-07:002010-10-05T08:19:05.510-07:00Anonymom,
I visit this site occasionally so if I ...Anonymom,<br /><br />I visit this site occasionally so if I don't answer your questions it's because I have not read them.<br /><br />And the reason that I am here now is because of something that you said about Wendy Kopp, it was that you said you didn't care how much money she made. My point about the money is that this ed reform industry, and it is becoming an industry, is made up of non-profits that are cashing in on RTTT. "Non-profit" charters, TFA, NEWA are making a lot of money off of the rest of us.<br /><br />So, my point was don't think that just because an organization is a non-profit, that they are just doing it for the brownie points.<br /><br />Now, I would be glad to answer your questions.<br /><br />Is there something specific that you would like for me to address?<br /><br />I will check back here later today to see if you have posted a question or two.<br /><br />Have a great morning!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19028524690837105712010-10-05T08:04:52.967-07:002010-10-05T08:04:52.967-07:00I would appreciate if, when you are making your po...I would appreciate if, when you are making your point or statement, that there is no name-calling involved.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55030250839874107132010-10-05T07:38:04.249-07:002010-10-05T07:38:04.249-07:00anonymom... why dont you spend some time educating...anonymom... why dont you spend some time educating yourself, instead of asking Dora to reiterate all that you can already find on the blog?<br /><br /><a href="http://seattleducation2010.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">http://seattleducation2010.wordpress.com/</a><br /><br />Scroll down the sidebar on the right until you get to the category Teach for America...<br /><br />some of us here have spent the better part of two years educating ourselves and posting what we have found here, and Dora and her co-editor put it all on their blog to save others the trouble...<br /><br />why dont you go look and do some additional research elsewhere, before you dump on Dora?<br /><br /><a href="http://campusprogress.org/articles/teach_for_america_dropouts/" rel="nofollow">http://campusprogress.org/articles/teach_for_america_dropouts/</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.dfpe.org/pdf/Barbara-Miner-Looking-Past-the-Spin-Teach-for-America-Spring-2010.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.dfpe.org/pdf/Barbara-Miner-Looking-Past-the-Spin-Teach-for-America-Spring-2010.pdf</a>Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50190912566105459472010-10-05T07:08:41.797-07:002010-10-05T07:08:41.797-07:00Dora, since you claim to know so much about TFA, h...Dora, since you claim to know so much about TFA, how about you just answer some of the questions that I asked in my earlier posts? Don't you think that would be much more helpful than your long winded posts questioning who I am?seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65268917987706067212010-10-05T07:05:42.750-07:002010-10-05T07:05:42.750-07:00Broad and Gates and Kopp are sitting there right n...Broad and Gates and Kopp are sitting there right now, nodding and smiling smugly as their agenda is almost fully implemented in oh so savvy (not) Seattle... with barely a voice raised in protest, right under our very (not so very sophisticated after all) noses...<br /><br />What a bunch of naive, gullible fools we all are.... <br /><br />So busy fighting for our own bits of turf that we didnt - WOULDNT, REFUSED TO - see the bigger picture - or we decried as paranoid and ignored those who tried to tell us what was coming...<br /><br />The evidence is all around us as this same pattern plays out around the country - there to see in plain view and plain language on Broad's own website, in all the blogs written by other parents in other cities who have had this happen there before it got to us... all the warnings there for us, but we chose to ignore them...<br /><br />And what a bunch of whiners without the backbone to get out there and actually do something to stop this... <br /><br />Its not too late - you have about six months to stop this... but it will take lots of noise and real action - WTO kind of action - public, loud, embarrassing for the district and for Broad/Gates...<br /><br />Recalling Directors wont do it... too late<br /><br />Voting in new directors wont do it - too late...<br /><br />Kay Smith Blum wont do it - one of 7 doesnt have the influence to stop MGJ and all the astro-turf lobby groups...<br /><br />Voting against the levy wont do it - a drop in the ocean and the money will be made up by Gates/Broad somehow who wont let such a small amount of cash get in the way... heck, they've spent billions on this agenda already, whats a few more million?<br /><br />Talking to the state reps in Olympia, or voting in your own favourites wont do it - the lobby groups with their Gates/Broad money have gotten there first...<br /><br />Who will step up for real, active protest?<br /><br />Or will you just sit back, complaining, sighing, giving up and go along for this ride which will destroy thousands of our kids' futures, and escape to private schools if you can?Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9845982716003049342010-10-04T23:28:46.731-07:002010-10-04T23:28:46.731-07:00Anonymom,
Directing you to our blog is the easies...Anonymom,<br /><br />Directing you to our blog is the easiest way for you to get information.<br /><br />I am not doing that for money or out of any sort of ego.<br /><br />Anyone who knows me can attest to that.<br /><br />It would bore most people who read this blog for me to provide links or full quotes for you.<br /><br />I have done that in the past and do not desire to be redundant.<br /><br />As I stated in our first blog, "Our goal is to have an informed public on issues that affect us in Seattle as it relates to public school education."<br /><br />That's all and that's it.<br /><br />If you really want to inform yourself, come to the forum with Diane Ravitch Tuesday evening. Then, maybe, we can have an informed conversation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com