tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post7928957946102533970..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Teachers suspendedMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-51529254671150000192009-03-13T18:37:00.000-07:002009-03-13T18:37:00.000-07:00Dear AutismMom,The staffing ratios are more favora...Dear AutismMom,<BR/><BR/>The staffing ratios are more favorable in the three schools you mentioned. My stats are from OSPI data as reported by the SPS to OSPI. These are staffing ratios not class sizes.<BR/><BR/>"Fidelity of Implementation" refers to following the scripted pacing plan, which in many cases allows little or no variation from its daily requirements.<BR/><BR/>I have never advocated for the good ol' traditional math curriculum (which I found in great need of improvment .. unfortunately the SPS has given us something worse). I am an advocate for a blended internationally competitive math curriculum.<BR/><BR/>For further information on this math direction see:<BR/><A HREF="www.ams.sunysb.edu/~tucker/LeadEssay.pdf" REL="nofollow"> "What is Important in School Mathematics."</A><BR/><BR/>I think that differentiation is great, just that the SPS rarely does it. "Fidelity of Implementation" makes it even less likely.<BR/><BR/>Dandan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72268730003691118232009-03-11T22:42:00.000-07:002009-03-11T22:42:00.000-07:00Lenora,Glad you're back at work.I toured Greenlake...Lenora,<BR/><BR/>Glad you're back at work.<BR/><BR/>I toured Greenlake for my incoming K kids and we toured all areas of the school. <BR/><BR/>Everyone seemed fully engaged and very happy in all sections of the school. Teachers teaching and kids learning.<BR/><BR/>Best to you!TwinMom2003https://www.blogger.com/profile/13330240199097718321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59235761742719564662009-03-11T10:10:00.000-07:002009-03-11T10:10:00.000-07:00Dan, you aren't making any sense. No, I wasn't ...Dan, you aren't making any sense. No, I wasn't comparing schools for differentiation. Montlake, Graham Hill, and Bagley "feature diffentiation" as you say (and disparage) because they have multiage programs AND inclusion for severely disabled students. They absolutely do NOT have any great student-teacher ratio's. I make no claims about the diffentiation at WSE, Arbor Heights, or Adams... I have no information there. I simply note the disproportionality in their sped programs. Some classes at Graham Hill have MORE than 30 kids per class. Montlake has at least 26 per class. That isn't some great ratio as you claim. In contrast, WSE before the great merger, had extremely low class sizes... less than 20.<BR/><BR/>Montlake, GH, and Bagleys are popular and do a good job... because of differentiation. <BR/><BR/>In addition to poo-pooing "differentiation" you also poo-poo "fidelity of implementation". What is that anyway? To my mind it means "good teaching". So, the things that are SOOOO horrible are good teaching that meets the needs of students at their level. And no, that doesn't describe the reasons for WASL scores. Curriculums will never be a panacea for education. We had good ol' traditional math when I was a kid... and guess what? There were all the same problems and complaints.AutismMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11733034472823241389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90417529147466129582009-03-10T21:19:00.000-07:002009-03-10T21:19:00.000-07:00Lin,The district actively acknowledges the huge pr...Lin,<BR/>The district actively acknowledges the huge problem of self-containing students withOUT cognitive disabilities in schools with level 3 self-contained disability programs. Disproportionality in restrictive programs, and in special education as a whole are well documented and reported in the district's special education review. That really isn't news at all. The named schools are all schools with level 3 programs... and they all have this problem. I have observed these programs on many occasions and I have worked as an advocate for students in these buildings. Students with true, and actual disabilities are removed from these programs, which are already highly restricted. Why? Because they are disabled. (If you can even imagine that!!! No disabled kids wanting academic instruction in our disabled program. Go somewhere else.) These schools also refuse to provide academic education to disabled students if parents actively seek it. <BR/><BR/>So, who is it that attends these programs? I can tell you they are both impoverished and minority... but evidently, not cognitively disabled. I can also tell you, that situation doesn't happen to affluent parents able to provide for the needs of their child. Would any of you self-contain your cognitively normal child that in classrooms where no kids ever take the WASL, and where no teacher ever has that aspiration for their students?(however weak the WASL is, it is at least a small bar to shoot for). You can look at OSPI data, you will find these schools don't even test enough students with IEP's to report the results even though they are highly over-represented with disabled students.AutismMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11733034472823241389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39938538626979404542009-03-10T20:39:00.000-07:002009-03-10T20:39:00.000-07:00Yes, owlhouse, that's true.I would LOVE to give mo...Yes, owlhouse, that's true.<BR/><BR/>I would LOVE to give more details but I feel like I should be careful about what I say on a public forum as we go through the process to appeal. The reason I'm responding to this is because I know many people are concerned and want to help. It means so much to have support and we are truly thankful to those who have given it and continue to do so. We don't know what is going to happen but for now, we're happy to be back in the classroom. Hopefully, all of this is happening so that things can change for the better. Personally, I'm sick of administrations and bureaucracies that have lost touch with humanity. That needs to change! <I>We work with children!</I> <BR/>I just don't get it...Lenorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15286638220011922312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59804540241879533542009-03-10T17:46:00.000-07:002009-03-10T17:46:00.000-07:00I've heard they're back in the classroom this week...I've heard they're back in the classroom this week, with the suspension suspended as they file their appeal. Anyone know more?owlhousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630051682382673928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42670468733031530032009-03-08T10:13:00.000-07:002009-03-08T10:13:00.000-07:00At the top of the report they note why those early...At the top of the report they note why those early assignment numbers appear for closed schools, these student have not been reassigned yet, so I have no issue with that aspect of the report.<BR/><BR/>What I do find interesting is how many schools fill up a K class in early sib registration, notably View Ridge and Wedgewood.ParentofThreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15853045587227159562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46209659464384862492009-03-08T07:33:00.000-07:002009-03-08T07:33:00.000-07:00Speaking of the early enrollment numbers for sibli...Speaking of <A HREF="http://www.seattleschools.org/area/eso/EarlySiblingAssigns0809.pdf" REL="nofollow">the early enrollment numbers for siblings</A>, does it strike anyone else as weird that they have early enrollment numbers for 2009-2010 for the AAA (2), Cooper (3), Meany (1), and Summit (1)?<BR/><BR/>I guess this is because early sibling assignment came before the closure vote, but you would think that they would update their count.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7932113376343376412009-03-07T20:55:00.000-08:002009-03-07T20:55:00.000-08:00I would start with the main enrollment page. They...I would start with the main enrollment page. <BR/><BR/>They have already posted the sibling early enrollment numbers for 2009-2010.TwinMom2003https://www.blogger.com/profile/13330240199097718321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83765238217144290822009-03-07T20:18:00.000-08:002009-03-07T20:18:00.000-08:00Question about another issue:I attended a tour at ...Question about another issue:<BR/><BR/>I attended a tour at Lowell on Thursday. Julie Breitenbach (sp?) said that the demographers would be releasing the projections for 2009-10 enrollment at each school this week and that more information should be coming out on Friday morning.<BR/><BR/>Does anyone know where this information would be posted?Shannonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13865361028544783972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40285065650048012812009-03-07T11:22:00.000-08:002009-03-07T11:22:00.000-08:00Dear AutismMom,Thanks for the school names. It is...Dear AutismMom,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the school names. It is interesting to see what can be found when investigating school results.<BR/>It is always difficult to draw conclusions because of so many uncontrolled variables.<BR/><BR/>The schools you listed have more favorable staffing ratios than most schools. According to OSPI data:<BR/>Graham Hill: 342/22 = 15.55/1<BR/>sped 10.3%<BR/><BR/>Montelake: 234/16 = 14.6/1<BR/>sped 15%<BR/><BR/>Dan Bagley: 330/20 = 16.5/1<BR/>sped 11%<BR/>-----------------------------------------<BR/>Adams: 367/19 = 19.32/1<BR/>sped 13.2%<BR/><BR/>Arbor Heights: 308/20 = 15.4/1<BR/>sped 23%<BR/><BR/>West Seattle Elem is so far out of the demographic league with the schools you mention it can hardly be suitable for comparison.<BR/><BR/>Free&reduced meals 79%<BR/>Bilingual population 32%<BR/>Sped 26%<BR/><BR/>Staffing 271/21 = 12.9/1<BR/>--------------------------------------<BR/>In West Seattle also<BR/>Sanislo: 312/17 = 18.35/1<BR/>Sped 9.2%<BR/><BR/>Schmitz Park: 326/16 = 20.35/1<BR/>Sped 7.1%<BR/>-------------------------------------<BR/><BR/>I still believe that Seattle Schools do not differentiate ... as in meeting an effective definition of differentiated instruction as shown to be internationally successful.<BR/><BR/>Individualization is easier with favorable staffing ratios coupled with favorable demographics. The three schools that you cited as exemplary in differentiating have very favorable staffing ratios when viewed in relationship to the demographics of their populations.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1199797096943961582009-03-07T10:16:00.000-08:002009-03-07T10:16:00.000-08:00AutismMom said:"Kids with disabilities are going t...AutismMom said:<BR/><BR/><B><I>"Kids with disabilities are going to be moving through the grades, and so is everyone else. Teachers can either differentiate.... or fail to be effective."</I></B><BR/><BR/>"Everyone is going to be moving through the grades". -----<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the explanation of why 50%+ of entering SPS 9th graders are unprepared to be successful in high school mathematics. <BR/><BR/>In Finland differentiated instruction takes place in an atmosphere of high standards and lots of interventions to help students meet those standards. Students are retained when they need more time to meet expectations at a particular grade level. Thus grade level retention is indicated when all those interventions fail to bring a student to the minimum performance level.<BR/><BR/>But ... as we know in the SPS there are no minimum levels of achievement for regular education students. In SPS math currently there are no expectations k-8.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68890080548713734422009-03-07T09:43:00.000-08:002009-03-07T09:43:00.000-08:00Dear AutismMom,Thanks for the lively discussion.In...Dear AutismMom,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the lively discussion.<BR/><BR/><B><I>Instructionally disabled</I></B><BR/>is a term used to describe kids that appear by almost every measure to belong in SPED but do not. They do not because their lack of academic achievement is directly related to poor curriculum and/or poor instruction.<BR/><BR/>The SPS in Math over the last decade is a true leader in the production of instructionally disabled students in math.<BR/><BR/>This continues as teachers are to follow the Everyday Math pacing plan.<BR/>Forget the WA state grade level math expectations ... follow the EDM pacing guide.<BR/><BR/><B>Nationally there are several instances where teachers lost jobs by not:<BR/>1.) following the mandated pacing guide or <BR/>2.) for supplementing material when "Fidelity of Implementation" was the order of the day.</B><BR/><BR/><I><B>Finland is an exemplar for differentiated instruction</B></I> ... Whatever the SPS advertises as differentiated instruction .... seems to be anything but that ... as they go about increasing the production of instructionally disabled students.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64213959659450171042009-03-07T07:40:00.000-08:002009-03-07T07:40:00.000-08:00wseadawg... I smiled (sadly, wistfully, ironically...wseadawg... I smiled (sadly, wistfully, ironically, depressedly, fatalistically etc, etc) at your reference to Blade Runner...<BR/><BR/>I often wonder how many people get that we're already living the Matrix... and have been doing so for a very long time....Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50903375517849489342009-03-07T00:38:00.000-08:002009-03-07T00:38:00.000-08:00Broad and the Charter-backers like Wal-Mart, Annen...Broad and the Charter-backers like Wal-Mart, Annenberg, and unfortunately Gates are already hijacking public education anywhere they can. A Harlem "non-profit" Charter CEO hauls in 370k per year for presiding over 4 "non-profit" charters that serve 1000 kids total. Think they aren't about money? Think again. <BR/><BR/>Gates recently pumped charters while laying out the four biggest threats to the world: Malaria, AIDS, pneumonia, and TEACHERS!! <BR/><BR/>What's scary is how much they all believe the rhetoric. So when you hear "21st Century Global Competition" envision the "Blade Runner" like future these folks envision for our kids, where childhood is dismissed and replaced with "rigor" to ensure competitive little corporate soldiers of the future (until their jobs are outsourced). <BR/><BR/>Scapegoating teachers and unions while pretending to represent the ignored parents is Broad Foundation 101. How soon will we hear about KIPP schools and importing Teach for America neophytes to save Seattle Schools? It's happening all over the country, why not Seattle?wseadawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750439461734046035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27786449978787963542009-03-06T22:27:00.000-08:002009-03-06T22:27:00.000-08:00Autism mom says: "On the other hand, we have schoo...Autism mom says: "On the other hand, we have schools like W. Seattle Elem, Adams Elem, Arbor Heights and tons of middle and high schools... where students with very minor disabilities (if any disability at all) have been railroaded into self-contained dumping grounds."<BR/><BR/>I think since you're making this claim of "railroading", you should share specifics. Without naming names, describe a student at West Seattle Elementary that has been railroaded into special ed. <BR/><BR/>That is what you're claiming, right? That you actually know specific cases of this type of racist railroading and you're not just passing on some gossip that you heard somewhere?<BR/><BR/>"But what better way for a school to improve its WASL score than dump the kids in a location where absolutely nothing is every expected?"<BR/><BR/>I would also like you to back up the claim that special ed self-contained classrooms "expect absolutely nothing" from students. Again, use evidence you've seen from WSE.Linhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05465717716269898918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54868529337134545662009-03-06T17:57:00.000-08:002009-03-06T17:57:00.000-08:00PS. At the middle school level, the most success...PS. At the middle school level, the most successful school (by that, I mean successful for everyone attending not just those in a special program) is Eckstein. It is also completely dedicated to differentiation and co-teaching. Seems like we should do more of what works.AutismMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11733034472823241389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61036706994421816932009-03-06T15:59:00.000-08:002009-03-06T15:59:00.000-08:00Well Dan, I completely disagree with you. SPS do...Well Dan, I completely disagree with you. SPS doesn't "feature differentiation". Very few schools do any differentiation. Schools that do differentiate, eg. Montlake, Graham Hill, Bagley... do so with great results. (these schools must differentiate because they have multi-age classrooms) In fact, special ed is often the first thing they try as an intervention, because it gets schools off the hook. Isn't it a lot easier to simply put somebody in special ed than to either differentiate or intervene? If they did differentiate, it wouldn't much matter about promotion. And all the crying about "social promotion" is also ridiculous. More crying and complaining make about it won't make any difference. As long as I can remember people have complained about the twin woes of "social promotion" and "grade inflation". Kids with disabilities are going to be moving through the grades, and so is everyone else. Teachers can either differentiate.... or fail to be effective.AutismMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11733034472823241389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18411033182047711702009-03-06T15:33:00.000-08:002009-03-06T15:33:00.000-08:00I didn't say he didn't. I don't know one way or th...I didn't say he didn't. I don't know one way or the other. I'm simply expressing my surprise, and saying what my experience was. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone else's experience, but simply adding data. <BR/><BR/>Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63441574501722681692009-03-06T13:49:00.000-08:002009-03-06T13:49:00.000-08:00Helen-Then you must not have been paying very care...Helen-<BR/><BR/>Then you must not have been paying very careful attention, or were lucky enough to have kids that were his favorites.<BR/><BR/>I can assure you - this guy needs to go and has needed to since he arrived.Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12875541753709754758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83807902482355354542009-03-06T12:31:00.000-08:002009-03-06T12:31:00.000-08:00Dear AutismMom,You said:"They are usually just min...Dear AutismMom,<BR/><BR/>You said:<BR/>"<I>They are usually just minority kids, or kids with incompetent parents, or kids experiencing some other societal ill. These kids shouldn't be self-contained...</I> "<BR/><BR/>Another possiblity is the child has been in the SPS which features differentiated instruction without interventions ... so the child can fall farther and farther behind year after year as social promotion continues. ...until it is time for some form of Special Education.<BR/><BR/>Any chance either the school board or the administration will act on the School Board policies governing grade level promotion and skills?<BR/><BR/>Probably not too busy suspending teachers.dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15035816097594809192009-03-06T12:23:00.000-08:002009-03-06T12:23:00.000-08:00Please contact state and district officials, askin...Please contact state and district officials, asking that these teachers be reinstated immediately. <BR/><BR/>Randy Dorn, 360-725-6004<BR/>Randy.Dorn@k12.wa.us<BR/><BR/>Maria Goodloe-Johnson, 206-252-0167<BR/>magoodloe@seattleschools.org<BR/><BR/>Gary Ikeda, (SPS legal) 206-252-0113<BR/>glikeda@seattleschools.org<BR/><BR/>SPS Board Members listed here-<BR/>http://www.seattleschools.org/area/board/contact.xmlowlhousehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01630051682382673928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82740738420061884242009-03-06T12:09:00.000-08:002009-03-06T12:09:00.000-08:00Wow. I had kids at Whittier for six years, five of...Wow. I had kids at Whittier for six years, five of which overlapped with that teacher, and I never heard a word against him.<BR/><BR/>Helen Schinskehschinskehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10316478950862562594noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75017063003876543572009-03-06T12:00:00.000-08:002009-03-06T12:00:00.000-08:00Imagine it. Teacher does a "good job" on the WAAS...Imagine it. Teacher does a "good job" on the WAAS so the kid passes. Teacher does a "bad job" on the WAAS and the kid fails. What kind of crock is that?<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, we have schools like W. Seattle Elem, Adams Elem, Arbor Heights and tons of middle and high schools... where students with very minor disabilities (if any disability at all) have been railroaded into self-contained dumping grounds. Of course the teachers are usually well-meaning. These aren't kids with IQ 33. They are usually just minority kids, or kids with incompetent parents, or kids experiencing some other societal ill. These kids shouldn't be self-contained... and absolutely should be taking the WASL. But what better way for a school to improve its WASL score than dump the kids in a location where absolutely nothing is every expected?AutismMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11733034472823241389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59462889457355103892009-03-06T11:03:00.000-08:002009-03-06T11:03:00.000-08:00I attended the "WAAS" training at the Stanford Cen...I attended the "WAAS" training at the Stanford Center in the fall. It was the most worthless day I've ever spent. The so-called WAAS trainer was absolutely worthless to us. Instead of answering our questions, she directed us to people who she insisted knew how to do the WAAS.<BR/><BR/>When we found those people who were suggested to us, they told us they had no clue how to do the WAAS.<BR/><BR/>The statement that the teachers are taking the WAAS is true. Therefore, you might think that all of the portfolios would pass, except that the teachers are never told exactly what the criteria should look like. The percentage of porfolios passing last year was 20%.<BR/><BR/>We were told to use tenth grade curriculum with these students. How do you make accommodations for a student with a 33 IQ or lower?<BR/><BR/>The students are assessed through their IEP, Progress reports, psychological evaluations, the Brigance, the WIAT. These are much more accurate assessments of their progress, than trying to teach Shakespeare to developmentally disabled students.<BR/><BR/>The reason the teachers from Greenlake didn't know that there had to be written documentation from the parents to exclude their child from the WAAS is because district administrators don't WANT teachers to know that parents can opt out. The school gets a "0" if a student doesn't successfully complete a portfolio, and it's added to the scores for the school. On the other hand if the kid gets a "4", then it helps the school's total score.<BR/><BR/>The kids are actually missing out on a lot of valuable teaching opportunities because the teacher is knocking him/herself out over a long, extended period of time, to try and make sense out of this complicated, mind-numbing assessment.speducatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06111450720892395316noreply@blogger.com