tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post8942920620526964205..comments2024-03-18T16:51:10.406-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: BEX Work SessionMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger87125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47125208101938630262012-12-11T18:01:21.930-08:002012-12-11T18:01:21.930-08:00Boy, what a lot of questions and misconceptions. ...Boy, what a lot of questions and misconceptions. I may try to do a separate thread because there were several closures/attempts at closure and all were done differently and for different reasons. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59856526411404801432012-12-11T16:52:12.199-08:002012-12-11T16:52:12.199-08:00So if school choice was maintained, could we have ...So if school choice was maintained, could we have kept the schools in W and N Seattle off the chopping block then?<br /><br />wondering<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31346561209929316692012-12-11T16:36:28.968-08:002012-12-11T16:36:28.968-08:00Mom of 2: You are right on the "pitch" ...Mom of 2: You are right on the "pitch" for "equity." I had forgotten some of the talking points around that. I think the sense was that since closing schools was SOOOO unpopular -- they needed to make sure that certain areas of the city didn't feel like they were the only ones suffering. While I get the politics, I have no doubt that it drove any number of stupid decisions (especially in West Seattle and the North), and wasted lots of money. Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23890880070341741962012-12-11T16:30:03.708-08:002012-12-11T16:30:03.708-08:00Quadrant idea was 100% done by the school board. I...Quadrant idea was 100% done by the school board. It was in 2006, and it was proposef by then Board President Brita Butler-Wall. Perhaps Melissa can speak to this at greater length, as I recall that she was on the citizens advisory committee that was tasked with making closure recommendations based on the quadrant model. If I am remembering things accurately, district staff ultimately pulleld one of the recommendations -closing Sacajawea - because of capacity concerns. Quadrants came from the school board, it was not what then superintendent Manhas wanted to use as criteria.<br /><br />IMHO Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84312031450887004262012-12-11T11:10:40.424-08:002012-12-11T11:10:40.424-08:00@Wondering
Equity was not the reason for the closi...@Wondering<br />Equity was not the reason for the closings, but drove some of the decisions about which schools to close, including schools in the north end that have since needed to be re-opened at huge costs - like Viewlands. There was a large graphic put out by the district showing that there were schools closed in each quadrant of the city, proving that they were being equitable.<br /><br />Mom of 2Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9525750294974637722012-12-11T10:45:26.407-08:002012-12-11T10:45:26.407-08:00Sorry mom of 2. i didn't know equity was the ...Sorry mom of 2. i didn't know equity was the reason behind the last round of school closures. I thought it was tied into savings (building conditions, cost per pupil, etc.), AYP, and NSAP roll out-- more operational concerns. Must have missed that discussion under Raj and Dr. G-J's admins.<br /><br />wonderingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77884853882786007992012-12-11T09:38:40.441-08:002012-12-11T09:38:40.441-08:00@wondering,
I was discussing the school closures ...@wondering,<br /><br />I was discussing the school closures several years ago, when the district illustrated how they were closing schools in each quadrant of the city - for equity.<br /><br />Several elementary schools in the South End then had 200 or fewer kids, with almost no parents choosing them as their first choice for their kindergarteners. Those were among the schools closed.<br /><br />Mom of 2Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10478766803766528362012-12-11T07:31:45.947-08:002012-12-11T07:31:45.947-08:00Mom of 2, which south Seattle schools besides RBHS...Mom of 2, which south Seattle schools besides RBHS you think should be closed due to undercapacity?<br /><br />wonderingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-849592130935290922012-12-10T15:35:49.921-08:002012-12-10T15:35:49.921-08:00One of the main reasons for closing the buildings ...One of the main reasons for closing the buildings in North and West Seattle was to ensure "equity". Basically, since many South Seattle schools were under-enrolled they needed to be closed. But for "racial equity" they needed to close schools in all regions of the city.<br />It doesn't make sense, but that's the problem when you claim "equity" is treating everyone the same, not treating everyone according to their needs. <br /><br />It's the same as claiming that the biggest educational problem is closing the "achievement gap", which can be reduced by just bringing the top kids down, instead of trying to raise the skills of all kids.<br />Mom of 2Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1505733537975731962012-12-10T14:35:44.572-08:002012-12-10T14:35:44.572-08:00Patrick is (mostly) right, I think. Many of the s...Patrick is (mostly) right, I think. Many of the schools that were closed (AA and old MLK, for example) were not in the parts of town where the capacity problems are most severe (the big, notable exception here is the closing of Cooper -- almost NONE of the capacity decisions made in 09 in West Seattle made any sense to me). <br /><br />The other problem in 09 seems to me to have been the false narrative. If the District had been "speaking truth," they would have had to acknowledge the looming space crunch in the north (and I KNOW it was known -- because I recall people discussing it back then). We could have had a four year jump on this issue had we made better use of demographic data in 08/09. The good thing (I guess) is that they did, at least, get two new elementaries in the north end started. But it looks to me like much more was needed.Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67101063987984666472012-12-09T21:27:43.672-08:002012-12-09T21:27:43.672-08:00Lowell would like more students if they would regi...Lowell would like more students if they would register. They have plenty of room in the building. The "boutique" word is only a word that whoever wrote description chose. It doesn't mean a thing. If people signed up and it was full it wouldn't be boutique size anymore. That said, it is istill connected legally to APP@Lincoln, at least for ths school year.NESeattleMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14685367298254415469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31449720913831383312012-12-09T13:11:26.539-08:002012-12-09T13:11:26.539-08:00According to Lowell's "About Our School&q...According to Lowell's "About Our School" page:<br /><br /><i>- We are a "boutique" (200 student) public elementary school educating PK-5 students located in the vibrant and eclectic Capitol Hill neighborhood.</i><br /><br />No overcrowding there. <br /><br />vfpAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9530769897527046782012-12-09T12:59:20.232-08:002012-12-09T12:59:20.232-08:00The 2009 closings were a mistake and shouldn't...The 2009 closings were a mistake and shouldn't have been done, however in fairness we would have had a very bad crunch anyway. The most overcrowded schools now are not where schools were closed in 2009, but rather decades ago.<br />Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16260807460417787614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9255448668957647892012-12-09T09:09:33.535-08:002012-12-09T09:09:33.535-08:00You are mostly wrong on the capital side. There a...You are mostly wrong on the capital side. There are very few ways to move money from capital to general fund. What they have done is write into BEX things that might have come under the general fund previously. but no, you cannot move money from capital to general funds. <br /><br />They are prioritizing reopening schools and if they could do it any faster they would. (That said, I think there are federal dollars out there but I don't hear anyone looking at that.) <br /><br />As Meg said, the levy money comes in pots, not in one lump sum as with bonds. <br /><br />You say that reopening schools is more important and the most part it is. But Arbor Heights is in the worst building in the district. It's not just bad, it's horrible. Why should they go to the end of the line?Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91879062131304784202012-12-09T07:48:54.257-08:002012-12-09T07:48:54.257-08:00True, there is a somewhat artificial accounting di...True, there is a somewhat artificial accounting difference between capital and operating budgets. My understanding is that there are ways to move some funds between them (such as grants that are not restricted to one or the other and can be moved, or designating some work to reopen a school as maintenance so it is an operating cost not a capital cost). Am I wrong about that?<br /><br />In discussing minor accounting problems, though, let's not lose sight of the big issue. The problem was the 2008-9 school closings and what they did to capacity. The solution is to rapidly reopen as many schools as possible as soon as possible with as low cost as possible. We should prioritize reopening schools quickly and find ways to get it done. And we should seek creative ways to get the funds to do it next year, such as shifting other capital projects out a year, cutting administration and teaching coaches to make funds available for operational maintenance or capital construction, whatever it takes to get those schools reopened fast.Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45622537823359767582012-12-08T22:01:47.766-08:002012-12-08T22:01:47.766-08:00Sped consulting teachers? No, there's no requi...Sped consulting teachers? No, there's no requirement for these. But all IEPs must include a representative of the LEA, local education authority, to provide resources to implement it. That can be a principal or a CT. They have paired back this a lot. If students all become locally placed, the need for this job is greatly reduced.<br /><br />speddie.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25919542238162349172012-12-08T14:39:49.582-08:002012-12-08T14:39:49.582-08:00billed to teaching but not teaching children (beca...billed to teaching but not teaching children (because they have teaching certificates):<br /><br />-Special Education consulting teachers<br />-professional development coaches<br />-STAR mentors (teaching coaches for novice teachers)<br />-other??<br /><br />I don't know if there are IDEA requirements for SpEd consulting teachers. <br /><br />My understanding is that there are some minimum professional development expenses in the agreement with the teachers' union, and that the STAR mentors are also a part of the CBA. I don't know if SPS is spending above the minimum or not.<br /><br />Can anyone illuminate further?Meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795753563127975720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25665708874450045562012-12-08T14:36:20.297-08:002012-12-08T14:36:20.297-08:00David- I agree that opening more buildings faster ...David- I agree that opening more buildings faster is a good idea. I agree that district administration made decisions that worsened today's capacity situation, particularly with the incredibly disruptive and ill-conceived 2008-09 closures. I also agree that cutting central administration to the absolute barest minimum is a good idea.<br /><br />Unfortunately, the construction expenses that come with opening schools come out of the capital budget. The bulk of staffing (some capital staff are paid out of the capital budget) is paid for out of the operating budget. Making central administration cuts won't get buildings open faster. The nature of levy money (for both operating and capital) is that we get bits of it at a time, rather than one big glob all at once.Meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795753563127975720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10527318408295925332012-12-08T14:21:35.737-08:002012-12-08T14:21:35.737-08:00Curious, I don't know where all of them are bu...Curious, I don't know where all of them are but I know, from the budget, that they exist.<br /><br />I was following David's train of thought about finding more money, faster, to get more done to help this capacity problem. <br /><br />Of course, we just paid out $670K plus for BEX software which, while important, might not have been at the top of everyone's list.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34680452675432354652012-12-08T13:59:24.627-08:002012-12-08T13:59:24.627-08:00I agree that teaching coaches -- teachers who are ...I agree that teaching coaches -- teachers who are not in front of kids in a classroom -- should be a target. Anything that is not a teacher in front of kids in a classroom should be a target for cuts.<br /><br />However, let's get the numbers straight on central administration. They certainly do not indicate central administration staff is way down. In fact, central administration has only dropped by 5.6 employees in the last year, from 246.6 in 2010-11 to 241.0 (budgeted) in 2011-12. It's essentially flat, not at all "way down".<br /><br />You can see that at the "Operating, ASB, Debt Fund & Capital Budgets" document, first link on the page at<br /><br /><a href="http://www.seattleschools.org/modules/cms/pages.phtml?pageid=225568" rel="nofollow">http://www.seattleschools.org/modules/cms/pages.phtml?pageid=225568</a><br /><br />Page 52 of that document has the staff count.<br /><br />It is true that the percentage of budget is down from over 7% to a more reasonable 6%, in part because the overall budget has grown bigger, in part because more central administration somehow is on grants. But it is not true that central administration has had significant cuts.<br /><br />Getting back to the broader point, Meg asked how we can deal with the capacity issues without portables and other short-term solutions. And I think the solution is speedily reopening closed schools, getting the funds to do so out of deep cuts elsewhere.<br /><br />Honestly, I can't imagine the principals could do worse than central administration has. Let's shift the responsibility held (and mismanaged) by the central office down to the principals, cut central administration to the bone, and use the funds to reopen schools.Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11922610916860182502012-12-08T11:37:18.501-08:002012-12-08T11:37:18.501-08:00Melissa, where are those "extra teachers"...Melissa, where are those "extra teachers" located? And how do you think cutting those jobs would help with the capacity issues in the district?<br />CuriousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73469424784322805352012-12-08T11:37:01.843-08:002012-12-08T11:37:01.843-08:00Melissa, where are those "extra teachers"...Melissa, where are those "extra teachers" located? And how do you think cutting those jobs would help with the capacity issues in the district?<br />CuriousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47300463509025130482012-12-08T11:19:55.935-08:002012-12-08T11:19:55.935-08:00David, actually they have brought the adminstrativ...David, actually they have brought the adminstrative staff way down (and in some places it hurts the work).<br /><br />That said, they have a lot of teachers who coach and I think THAT'S where the cuts should come.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83084950941772104912012-12-08T11:03:38.440-08:002012-12-08T11:03:38.440-08:00I'd like to get back to the broader topic. Me...I'd like to get back to the broader topic. Meg asked, "There is not enough money to solve even all of the urgent problems. Annexes and portables are far from ideal, but what should the district do instead?"<br /><br />The problem is the lack of long-term planning. We got into this mess because the district closed a bunch of schools in 2009 and cut capacity. The goal was to reduce short-term costs with no attention to the long-term costs, despite many of us loudly pointing out those long-term costs at the time. We're now paying tens of millions to fix that decision.<br /><br />I agree we're rather stuck now. We do have little choice but to deal with it.<br /><br />But the point is that the process, people, and culture that made that 2009 decision still remain, and they aren't doing any better at long-term planning. We are going to continue to be forced into making last-minute, crisis decisions if we don't fix the process.<br /><br />Our district administration is bloated compared to neighboring districts, an unusually high percentage of the budget, and clearly those bureaucracies are more part of the problem than part of the solution. If you're asking what I'd do, well, I'd look at whether we'd be better off if we fire half the district administration staff, push responsibility and power down to the principals instead, and use the cost savings (approximately $10-20M/year) to speedily reopen as many schools as possible. Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76909930014263182992012-12-08T10:41:23.415-08:002012-12-08T10:41:23.415-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com