tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post9182631996721944715..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Seattle Schools: What's the Plan?Melissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91339850563603684072015-02-19T13:51:15.283-08:002015-02-19T13:51:15.283-08:00I want to comment on the option school-special ed ...I want to comment on the option school-special ed debate. I know this is an older thread but this is of interest to me because my son cannot attend the option school his sister goes to because they only offer resource. I think this is a major problem here in Seattle-kids with special needs not being given opportunity to inclusion-based programs in option schools. Supposedly the district is opening several new ACCESS (inclusion) programs this year,but we don't know where yet. I wish there was a legal case to be made here, since access to alternative education approaches should be available to our SpEd students.<br /><br />-Want alternativesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55630203694751766912015-01-20T17:35:58.726-08:002015-01-20T17:35:58.726-08:00The District has a policy, Policy 2090, that requi...The District has a policy, Policy 2090, that requires an annual assessment of the quality and efficacy of every academic program. They just don't do it. None of the academic programs are reviewed or assessed. None of them. Which, of course, makes me wonder what management, if any, is happening. How can Shauna Heath conduct a performance evaluation of the manager of Advanced Learning without any evaluation of the Advanced Learning programs?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91575652149282873472015-01-20T08:49:34.882-08:002015-01-20T08:49:34.882-08:00No another reader, you are incorrect. I am not tal...No another reader, you are incorrect. I am not talking about general education - neighborhood assignment schools. I am talking about magnet programs, which Seattle because it can never do things like other districts does not call magnet programs. Here they are option programs or alternative programs. Think of them as the lottery programs. These schools can and do legally not support special needs students. The district simply has to offer access somewhere in the area to the program. My language example holds true. I don't like it. But that is the way it has been interpreted.<br /><br />Special NeedsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10495532764428481722015-01-20T08:33:01.534-08:002015-01-20T08:33:01.534-08:00HIMS, you ask good questions. Why no continuity i...HIMS, you ask good questions. Why no continuity in programs (with principals deciding, not staff, for what are supposed to be district-wide programs)?<br /><br />Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31034618716992126842015-01-20T08:22:46.628-08:002015-01-20T08:22:46.628-08:00Special needs, that is incorrect: no building can ...Special needs, that is incorrect: no building can simply declare itself sped-free because it is one type of program or another. That is simply against the law. <br /><br />another readerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52779320478160723812015-01-20T07:54:15.725-08:002015-01-20T07:54:15.725-08:00Reader, IDEA has not been interpreted to say speci...Reader, IDEA has not been interpreted to say special ed kids must have access to a nonstandard program near them. Wish it did, but that's not how it works and the district knows it. A district simply has to offer access to the program somewhere. If you live in Maple Leaf and by lottery get into JSIS and want your special ed student to have access to their Spanish immersion but the district has decided that Concord is the one place it will offer special ed support services for Spanish immersion, then you can fight the difficult fight to make the district provide services and if you prevail then you can plan on a long bus ride everyday for your kid. Most special ed families don't know they could in theory get into these special programs. The ones who do almost never want the tradeoff of a cross city bus ride to get into a special program and drop the idea of pursuing it. <br /><br />Special NeedsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26693323677513027762015-01-20T07:08:50.257-08:002015-01-20T07:08:50.257-08:00Immersion fan and reader re option schools and spe...Immersion fan and reader re option schools and special ed, think of this way: students w/ disabilities cannot even exercise the option in these 2 schools. No other class of students in SPS faces that exclusion. <br /><br />ReaderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84049119941343991822015-01-19T20:01:19.379-08:002015-01-19T20:01:19.379-08:00@ Immersion fan, I like immersion too, but I don&#...@ Immersion fan, I like immersion too, but I don't believe that one-way immersion programs necessarily require more resources. The particular model of immersion that SPS uses seems more expensive than it needs to be, and likely less effective. When you combine multiple immersion languages in one school, you lose some economies of scale, and you lose the "immersion" environment (e.g., school announcements, signage, etc. English becomes the default language of the school, since it's the commonality.) I'd love to see a thorough evaluation of the immersion program here, including a comparison to other models. Immersion schools elsewhere have been able to do it very effectively without IAs, but this may be easier with a single language, full-day immersion model. The benefits of the "international" approach we use here are unclear to me.<br /><br />HIMSmom<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76790701672509219182015-01-19T19:47:09.033-08:002015-01-19T19:47:09.033-08:00Thanks, Teacher. And that brings up another thing ...Thanks, Teacher. And that brings up another thing I hate about this district. While I think that having immersion schools can be a great benefit--and frankly, it would be very disappointing if the public school district in an educated city like Seattle didn't offer a variety of approaches--I am so tired of how SPS does everything willy nilly. Immersion is done differently at different schools--not just at the elementary level, but it sounds like there are huge differences at the middle and high school levels. We see the same thing again and again with other programs/services/issues, too--major inconsistencies in delivery of APP/HCC, Spectrum, and ALOs; SpEd; PE waivers; lunch times; field trips; and on and on. Why is there no consistency across schools???<br /><br />HIMSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-85332973731277237772015-01-19T19:07:36.526-08:002015-01-19T19:07:36.526-08:00The immersion pathway that is most intact is Conco...The immersion pathway that is most intact is Concord-Denny-Chief Sealth. The first cohort of Concord immersion students are now in 7th grade at DIMS. Denny jumpstarted immersion a few years ago with literacy and social studies classes in Spanish. These kids are now in 9th and 10th grade at Chief Sealth IHS where they are taking world history (9th grade) in Spanish and contemporary world issues (10th grade) also in Spanish. In addition to the immersion social studies courses, they are taking advanced Spanish language classes at CSIHS. So one third of their day is in Spanish (compared to 50% at the K-5 level). Both Denny and Chief Sealth have hired qualified bilingual teachers who can teach the social studies content in Spanish. But as the middle and high school program continues to grow, the need for district support will only increase. Teachernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6192901437731988132015-01-19T19:06:19.588-08:002015-01-19T19:06:19.588-08:00Portland and Eugene, OR share donations; Bellevue ...Portland and Eugene, OR share donations; Bellevue and Lake Washington ban spending PTA money on staff, including IAs. There may be others but I don't know who they are.<br /><br />All decisions were based on community concerns about increasing fairness and equity between schools.<br /><br />--enough alreadyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27215542494004768192015-01-19T17:31:49.433-08:002015-01-19T17:31:49.433-08:00"...IB/AP or STE(A)M, immersion school.."..."...IB/AP or STE(A)M, immersion school.." <br /><br />There's such a thing as an IB immersion school? <br /><br />I think both dual-language and STEM have more costs involved IF you want to do those programs justice. Are the outcomes worth it? You'd have to check the research.<br /><br />But our district loves to tout these programs but not fully support them. Parents were never told they would be carrying costs year to year.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59202463821982409642015-01-19T16:43:12.693-08:002015-01-19T16:43:12.693-08:00"Special Ed students get very little choice. ..."Special Ed students get very little choice. BF Day ironically has a transitional bilingual population <br />2013-14 at 14.5% per OSPI ."<br /><br />Immersion fan, I don't think you understand. Special Ed students by law should not be bumped from any school anywhere closest to home, option or no option. And some of these kids would love to be in immersion programs but for the "sink or swim" de facto (?) policies going on. That these boutique programs displace kids from the n'hoods and create disproportionate sped populations in other schools, such as BF Day (which btw is catalyzing more legal actions against the District than probably any other school at this time for its non-adherence to special education laws), is a problem. It's not a neutral situation. <br /><br />reader <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7325113690416484792015-01-19T16:27:39.324-08:002015-01-19T16:27:39.324-08:00In response to Lynn query
Just Asking Questions -...In response to Lynn query<br /><br />Just Asking Questions - what programs do you think wouldn't be able to justify their existence?<br /><br />I have no idea if I did I would have long said so. It is why I have asked why not a fully transparent audit of each school to assess the costs and the outcome. Yes that dreaded data word again. And then see if in fact the outcome that has resulted was or is one that supports the costs and logistics.... could it be consolidated, altered or utterly eliminated.<br /><br />To answer your question I cannot as I have no clue about over all the schools, alternative, elementary, etc that exist in the system. <br /><br />Since you seem to be on the inside track I would love you to tell me what some of these schools do - and here is the caveat - that are not conventional elementary, middle or high schools. In specifics... thanks<br /><br />- Just asking questions Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30691890031802596932015-01-19T15:03:05.609-08:002015-01-19T15:03:05.609-08:00"Neighboring districts managed to do the dece... "Neighboring districts managed to do the decent thing, including Portland, without an exodus to private school."<br /><br />Could you tell us what other districts "do the decent thing" other than Portland? My (scanty) research hasn't found another, neighboring or otherwise.<br /><br />HP, he's one of the wealthiest people on the planet and it's a pet project (that he projects as helping the work force). Sometimes I also wonder about his motivation (especially in the face of failure).<br /><br />"Instead... we have highly compensated district administrators who create churn in schools, play politics at the district level, spend a ton of SPS money to help the city's preschool initiative, come up with Improved Plans For Performance, and then don't have the time or budget for actual schools and students."<br /><br />Bravo!Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8739480713027656722015-01-19T14:59:11.169-08:002015-01-19T14:59:11.169-08:00HIMS mom, I like language immersion, but unlike IB...HIMS mom, I like language immersion, but unlike IB/AP or STE(A)M, immersion school does take more resources to support. LAs, math,& science classes are part of gen Ed so all schools must cover these subjects -often with pathways built in. Because of cost, the only way SPS can allow option one-way immersion schools (for predominantly native English speakers) to operate is where parents can raise 500K a year.<br /><br />IF you have a large enough native Spanish or Mandarin speaking population to draw from, it's possible to do dual immersion with no (or less) private donation because the school gets ELL funding. So while option school implies a choice here, it's not an equal choice nor equally accessible given NSAP.<br /><br />Special Ed students get very little choice. BF Day ironically has a transitional bilingual population <br />2013-14 at 14.5% per OSPI .<br /><br />- Immersion fan<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83278044702535675842015-01-19T14:14:54.960-08:002015-01-19T14:14:54.960-08:00You are the one who pointed out that: Quite frankl...You are the one who pointed out that: <i>Quite frankly, many of those students benefit from not being in a vortex with high volumes of classmates with the issues that often accompany poverty. Because the overall needs were simply not as overwhelming, we were often able to zero in on these kids and give them more of what they needed, with and without extra PTA funds.<br /><br />Research clearly bears out that clustering students in poverty (which often also means by race) results in the worst outcomes.</i><br /><br />Assuming you are correct, it seems obvious that it would be best for <b>everyone</b> if we don't drive families whose children are relatively easier to educate out of public schools. Every family will decide for themselves when a school becomes untenable for them. The issue could be class size, or access to a school nurse or counselor, or art or PE. If they're not able to fix those problems for their children, they'll leave. You can call this a vapid, desperate defense if you like. Some might call it good parenting. I call it reality.<br /><br />Because our school funding model sends more money to schools with more challenges, losing middle class families will reduce the money available for schools like Bailey Gatzert.<br /><br />Your comment on the relative brilliance of children, gene pools and finances is your baggage - not mine. <br /><br />I don't think the city, state and federal governments are doing enough to reduce poverty or to alleviate it's effects on children. I also think attempts to shame people into making charitable contributions are rarely effective. Keep trying though.<br /><br />In the end, the solution has to come from the state legislature. If our schools were amply funded, parents wouldn't have to pay for essentials.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90240095779444263682015-01-19T13:53:38.363-08:002015-01-19T13:53:38.363-08:00Families are paying $285 per month for kindergarte...Families are paying $285 per month for kindergarten and there are 26 students in a class.Confirmednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82004134764676439562015-01-19T12:54:14.799-08:002015-01-19T12:54:14.799-08:00The key point Melissa made here is that several of...The key point Melissa made here is that several of the board and senior district staff do not believe it is their job to listen to and address parent concerns. They just don't. They firmly believe that parents should be ignored.<br /><br />That situation would be far worse under an appointed board.<br /><br />Right now the #1 priority has to be to defeat all four incumbent members of the school board in their bids for re-election. All four who are up for re-election believe parents should be ignored and have acted to help stonewall parent concerns at every turn.<br /><br />We will fight a referendum if and when it comes.Greenwoodynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46858246137658353242015-01-19T12:52:56.462-08:002015-01-19T12:52:56.462-08:00All schools in SPS are underfunded, whether they a...All schools in SPS are underfunded, whether they are supplemented by Title or LAP funds, or PTA fundraising.<br /><br />It is galling, sometimes, to see school communities that are able to raise significant sums and improve their programs doing that. It's worth noting that forcing those PTAs to distribute a certain percentage would 1) not give much of a boost to other school communities, and 2) likely cause a drop in donations.<br /><br />Does it still make me queasy to see JSIS, or View Ridge or other powerhouse PTAs raise a ton of money while other schools scrape by? Yes. <br /><br />But the problem is not in the PTAs. <br /><br />The problem is a district management that adds several million dollars to the Central Administration budget while pulling teachers out of schools because of "budget issues." <br /><br />The problem is that district administration doesn't put students first.<br /><br />Whether at a school with a high percentage of students eligible for Free/Reduced lunch, or at a school with a low FRL %, all students in SPS are public school students, and their education is supposed to be the district's priority.<br /><br />Instead... we have highly compensated district administrators who create churn in schools, play politics at the district level, spend a ton of SPS money to help the city's preschool initiative, come up with Improved Plans For Performance, and then don't have the time or budget for actual schools and students.<br /><br />-- Went Private For A Reason<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12707100698502192362015-01-19T12:40:59.879-08:002015-01-19T12:40:59.879-08:00SPS is allowing those 2 "immersion" scho...<i>SPS is allowing those 2 "immersion" schools to grow a program that can only grow at the expense of students with special needs, who are now forced to relocate to schools like BF Day in disproportionate numbers. Who cannot attend their regular neighborhood school which will not accommodate them in favor of students who seek the optional language immersion route.</i><br /><br />JSIS and McD are option schools, not neighborhood schools. BF Day IS the neighborhood schools for many kids in the area. Greenlake is the other. Additionally, the language immersion model is not a good fit for all kids. Not only do you have the challenge of learning a new language, and learning new material in other subjects IN that foreign language, but you also have additional challenges like switching classrooms and teachers midday. I know families--both with gen ed and special ed kids--who have decided the additional challenge and chaos of this approach wouldn't work well for their children. I'm not at all surprised to see that the percentages of sped kids in these schools are lower. It makes perfect sense--and why would you expect the percentage to be the same across every school anyway?<br /><br />There are undoubtably unique challenges that come from running a half-day immersion program that includes three different languages, and this may make it more challenging for school administrators to offer the type of sped services that might be possible in a more traditional school. It might mean that this option is not as viable an option for some kids. Is that ok, or does every program need to be equally appropriate for every type of kid? Does every program and delivery model need to be equally effective for every type of kid? If so, what's that model? I don't believe there's a gold standard model that works equally well for all, so it seems to me that having options is good: Creative Approach Schools, international and immersion schools, AP and IB options, STEM focused schools, comprehensive middle schools and K-8s, HCC/APP schools, etc. With the way people seem to complain about all these special programs and models--complaints based on scant/nonexistent evaluation data, I might add--you'd think everyone wants a single, one-size-fits-all approach, where all kids start out the same, get the same, and end up the same. Is that really the ideal?<br /><br />HIMSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90392713380481868742015-01-19T12:33:53.465-08:002015-01-19T12:33:53.465-08:00What I don't get is why Bill Gates cares so mu...What I don't get is why Bill Gates cares so much about Seattle Public schools. At 6th grade, he went to Lakeside. His own kids go to private schools. He doesn't live in Seattle but rather in Medina. Why doesn't he go bother Bellevue School District? His taxes support Bellevue Schools not Seattles. Why does he get any say?<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27192752231469081152015-01-19T12:23:15.849-08:002015-01-19T12:23:15.849-08:00To those who oppose the parental funding for IAs a...To those who oppose the parental funding for IAs at JSIS and McDonald, here's another question:<br /><br />SPS has clearly decided to offer this model. Teachers have clearly said it's too challenging to provide instruction in a foreign language to large class sizes without additional support. Since the district clearly is not providing the additional funding the model seems to require, in the interest of "fairness" should the kids attending these schools just be out of luck? <br /><br />HIMSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21916285440056910352015-01-19T12:13:17.854-08:002015-01-19T12:13:17.854-08:00Blanford also claimed there was a middle school &q...<i>Blanford also claimed there was a middle school "immersion" program which surprised me because I was not aware of this. Anyone?</i><br /><br />Immersion does exist in middle school, but it's very limited. Rather than the half-day immersion experience of elementary school, it's a single class in MS. Instead of taking the typical Spanish or Japanese 1/2/3 series, HIMS middle school kids coming from immersion programs take a different language series. Its not a very robust pathway--there are only 2 different levels, so kids end up repeating one level--but the classes are "immersion" in that English is not spoken (unlike in the typical language classes). The classes are designed to build on the speaking and comprehension skills the immersion kids have, while also backfilling some of the gaps seen in immersion programs. <br /><br />I should also note that this alternate language track does not ONLY serve the immersion kids from JSIS and McD. I know a number of kids who came to HIMS from outside SPS who also had advanced foreign language skills and tested into this track. Additionally, kids who more quickly pass through the typical 1/2/3 series can jump into the immersion track when appropriate. So essentially, immersion in middle school just means they have have courses available at more appropriate levels for all students. <br /><br />HIMSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18548522436744998072015-01-19T11:31:45.678-08:002015-01-19T11:31:45.678-08:00Bailey Gatzert a school example of how the needs o...Bailey Gatzert a school example of how the needs of students living in poverty are not met by Title One and LAP.<br /><br />Another view seemed to think that students receiving funds to help remediate the effects of poverty justifies parents' raising half a million dollars for their low FRL school.<br /><br />I guess that would connect any dots that didn't connect.<br /><br />--enough alreadyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com