tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post1182795041155903359..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Good Things at the Board MeetingMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12888521081764759032012-02-16T20:30:29.114-08:002012-02-16T20:30:29.114-08:00One thing I don't see discussed is that the bu...One thing I don't see discussed is that the budget of the school remains firm and any reconfiguring must fit the budget. Transportation issues will affect any reorganization of the schedule: time and teaching year.<br /><br />That seems limiting to me. <br /><br />n...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86769451540647413962012-02-16T18:54:16.477-08:002012-02-16T18:54:16.477-08:00Holy Cow!!! What happened to the testimony?
The ...Holy Cow!!! What happened to the testimony?<br /><br />The SPS Board video seems to have just started with Harium .... No introduction and No Public Testimony.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.seattlechannel.org/videos/watchVideos.asp?program=schools" rel="nofollow">Here is part 1 for 2/15/2012</a>dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29674823784385282692012-02-16T17:33:25.681-08:002012-02-16T17:33:25.681-08:00"brianmrosenthal
Tim Burgess says he came to..."brianmrosenthal <br />Tim Burgess says he came to School Board mtg last night to see vote on Creative Approach Schools, "a topic of great importance to the City"<br /><br />I guess Burgess had to show up to intimidate board members. Just a reiminder, you know. I watched the meeting. Clearly, Smith-Blum, McLaren and Carr were uncomfortable with this MOU. But, they caved. Martin-Morris did his usual trust gig. <br /><br />Let's watch the shenanigans now as these Creative Schools are set-up. This is just the tip of the ice berg<br /> <br /><br />Yes, where was board testimony? It wasn't filmed.<br /><br />Kudos to Peaslee and Patu for having a back bone. This action should have been put off.Disgustednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66180285068231849522012-02-16T16:29:14.736-08:002012-02-16T16:29:14.736-08:00Yup - Burgess lining up his mayoral deal. And ther...Yup - Burgess lining up his mayoral deal. And there to keep the board in line. And lookie how those votes came out just right, 5-2.<br /><br />SouthieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41916971303091570152012-02-16T16:03:05.727-08:002012-02-16T16:03:05.727-08:00BR tweets:
@brianmrosenthal
Tim Burgess says he ...BR tweets:<br /><br />@brianmrosenthal <br />Tim Burgess says he came to School Board mtg last night to see vote on Creative Approach Schools, "a topic of great importance to the City"<br /><br />Whad I tell ya? He was supposed to be the enforcer, representing the Masters of Alliance. Wonder if he'll run from that Arena announcement to the C&I Comm. Mtg of the Whole to make sure TFA remains because "it is of great importance to the City" and his financial backers!mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24891315580180275612012-02-16T16:01:37.272-08:002012-02-16T16:01:37.272-08:00The SPS TV now has the 2/15 school board meeting p...The SPS TV now has the 2/15 school board meeting posted, but it seems to have cut out the public testimony and starts mid sentence with HMM. Odd. <br /><br />I was interested in hearing the public testimony on the elementary science, but it's not there...<br /><br />Odd.<br /><br />-parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55011275159575059402012-02-16T14:59:56.925-08:002012-02-16T14:59:56.925-08:00Solvay is right. If a school focuses too intensely...Solvay is right. If a school focuses too intensely on the needs of struggling students, then families of high performing students may get the message that there is nothing for them and their children at the school. Schools need to provide balance. They need to give with the left as they take with the right.<br /><br />So, in the example that I often put forward, if there is a classroom of struggling students which has only 12 kids in it to allow for more personal attention, that means that there would have to be a class of 38 students in another room.<br /><br />There has to be something pretty good happening in that class with 38 students in it for families to accept that. And it can't be something that only appears on the school web site; it has to actually happen in the classroom.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90124518577919439852012-02-16T13:36:00.481-08:002012-02-16T13:36:00.481-08:00Could a South end school use the MOU to offer a ye...<i>Could a South end school use the MOU to offer a year round school, or have extended day? </i><br /><br />I guess that could happen...but that's the problem with neighborhood schools. Southend schools are not 100% FRL or kids at risk. The southend, especially areas around RBHS and many of the elementaries—and certainly Aki Kurose as the only middle school, draw from families in every socio-economic category. There ARE kids in those million-dollar homes along the lake and on Island Drive whose families do not want or need year-round school, nor extended hours. Ditto for all the solidly middle-class families. <br /><br />Restructuring a neighborhood school to act like a chartee to serve at-risk kids will only send more families who just want and need a traditional, solid curriculum to private schools.<br /><br />SolvayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40583668292403541782012-02-16T13:13:39.000-08:002012-02-16T13:13:39.000-08:00Southie -- Interesting thoughts. Keep an eye on Pe...Southie -- Interesting thoughts. Keep an eye on Peter Steinbrueck, too. Could be a Burgess-Steinbrueck mayoral match-up. A couple of years ago, PS was contemplating mayoral control of the school district (proven to be a very bad idea in other cities, like NYC, for ex).suep.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17281578510716234624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8674736915727755622012-02-16T13:12:32.629-08:002012-02-16T13:12:32.629-08:00My perhaps somewhat naive perspective on this cont...My perhaps somewhat naive perspective on this contrasts with Charlie's. I see the Creative Approach schools as serving first the existing alternative schools to help them to become alternative schools again. They have lost their autonomy and their ability to be truly alternative in the last decade's move toward greater centralization. So that alone is a good reason to support CAs.<br /><br />I agree that all schools should be creative and that the waiver policy should be liberalized, but in my mind the CA schools should be doing something thematically very different from the neighborhood schools--perhaps even experimental--that's what innovative means to me, anyway. They should be given the latitude to explore new ground, and to the degree that they succeed, their practices should be emulated or adapted by other schools. <br /><br />This was the original idea behind Charter Schools when Albert Shanker thought them up--they would still be part of the larger interdependent community of schools, but they would be given a latitude to do things differently. Charter Schools instead evolved into publicly subsidized private school run by chains and for profit companies in isolation from the larger public school system. Shanker and all the early proponents of charters backed away from them when this original idea became corrupted.<br /><br />My idea of a CA school is modeled by Deborah Meier's East Central Park School in NYC and Mission Hill School in Boston. They exemplify interdependent autonomy. <br /><br />So maybe Charlie's right, nobody will do anything with this, but I'd be disappointed if that were true, and If I were on the board, I'd be looking for ways to identify Deborah Meier types who would do for some of the failing schools what she did in New York and Boston. Without the CA framework in place, you couldn't even begin to do that. <br /><br />It might be true, as Charlie says, that this just ratifies the board's traditional m.o., which is to refuse to do its job in performing its oversight responsibilities, but isn't that precisely what we want to change, and so how can we not be disturbed by this new board's continuing along that failed path? So for me this vote last night was a big deal, because it's sending a message that there really is not the collective will in the new board to change is dysfunctional m.o. There's just Sharon and Betty. Should we just shrug our shoulders and say, "Oh well, back to the same old, same old?" I hope not.Jack Whelannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45527768272848708842012-02-16T10:58:50.115-08:002012-02-16T10:58:50.115-08:00PS, that's crazy talk (but in a good way).PS, that's crazy talk (but in a good way).Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39227674774275343682012-02-16T10:52:09.135-08:002012-02-16T10:52:09.135-08:00We all want smart, effective regulation the preven...We all want smart, effective regulation the prevents harm while allowing innovation, so why is this proving so elusive?<br /><br />Here are four reasons:<br /><br />1) <b>The board</b> wouldn't know good regulation if they tripped over it. The board is mired in a policy revision project that reveals exactly this incompetency. Just look at the most recent policy they devised, the Instruction Material Waiver Policy. They stepped WAY over the line by writing a policy that is full of process. All the policy should have said was “The superintendent shall write and adopt a procedure for schools to follow when they wish to replace the board-adopted basic instructional materials with alternative materials.” That’s it. That’s a policy. That’s what it looks like when the board stays on the governance side of the line. If they wanted to, they could have required that the process be transparent, equitable, and based on clear, objective criteria, but that would sort of imply that the superintendent couldn't be trusted to write it that way if the board didn’t require it. In truth, this shouldn’t even be a policy by itself, but just one sentence in the Instructional Materials Adoption policy. Instead, we get a “policy” that is full of procedure and will become obsolete as soon as the new superintendent renames the job titles.<br /><br />2) <b>The central administration</b> staff are bureaucrats and bureaucrats are almost culturally incapable of writing good regulation. Good regulation requires nuance, understanding of complex systems, and, most of all, judgment. Bureaucrats distrust all of those as traps to create blame for them. Blame is the inevitable consequence of exercising judgment, and bureaucrats seek to avoid blame like vampires seek to avoid sunlight. They are not evaluated by their ability to create positives but by their ability to stay free of negatives. They don’t want nuance; they want hard limits and objective counts.<br /><br />3) <b>The SEA</b> doesn't trust the administration (for excellent reason) and therefore doesn't want to allow them the freedom to exercise their judgment. So the SEA also wants hard limits and objective assessments to protect themselves from subjective decisions by petty tyrants. Again, this is no way to write good regulation.<br /><br />4) <b>The public</b> is also to blame. No one gets off the hook here. The public demands accountability in the form of hard limits and objective measures. The public demands school reports with precise mathematical measures of amorphous ideas. The public are the ones who assign blame to the bureaucrats who exercise judgment.<br /><br />There is a pervasive belief that we cannot legislate good judgment any more than we can legislate good taste. I don’t think that’s true. I think that we can allow freedoms while providing protections. I think we can demand results without setting absurd benchmarks. The trick is to focus on the outcomes instead of the means.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30360684604296789062012-02-16T10:50:18.041-08:002012-02-16T10:50:18.041-08:00We are struggling to find a balance between allowi...We are struggling to find a balance between allowing professionals the freedom to be creative and innovative on one hand with the need for accountability on the other hand. The one thing we are not finding is the one thing we need: balance.<br /><br />Instead, we get extremes. We get either the Wild, Wild West of charter schools, Creative Approach Schools, principals as CEOs, and site-based decision-making or we get the lockdown standardization of over-regulation, centralized decision-making, fidelity of implementation, staffing standards, and mandated school improvement plans.<br /><br />What we don't get is appropriate regulation that allows creativity and customization, but demands results and protects against abuses.<br /><br />There is nothing that a charter school can do for students that a public school cannot do. The only real difference between a charter school and a public school is that the charter school is not bound by district-level bureaucratic regulation. If charter schools are so freaking wonderful, then the real impediment to having wonderful schools must be the district-level regulations. Isn't it obvious then that the solution we should pursue is the elimination of district-level bureaucratic regulation that impedes student progress?<br /><br />I can't be the only person who sees this.<br /><br />The Creative Approach Schools are almost charter schools under a different name. Whereas charter schools differ from public schools only in their governance and ownership, Creative Approach Schools retain the same ownership as public schools, while having governance more like charter schools.<br /><br />Everyone - so far as I know - is all in favor of removing any regulation that impedes student progress. But impeding student progress was not the intended purpose of any of those regulations. They all had some legitimate purpose at some time. So the question comes back to the real question, the question that we keep coming back to no matter what path we take:<br /><br />How can we balance our desire for accountability with our need to allow creativity?<br /><br />And the answer is the same answer we also keep coming back to:<br /><br />With smart, effective regulation the prevents harm while allowing innovation.<br /><br />So why is this proving so elusive?<br /><br />I will offer four explanations in my next comment.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46620701360024583532012-02-16T10:40:08.534-08:002012-02-16T10:40:08.534-08:00DeBell apparently gave a shout out to Burgess duri...DeBell apparently gave a shout out to Burgess during last night's meetingand said he'd been at one of Burgess's meetings. Tit for tat n all that.<br /><br />Burgess wants to be mayor. Burgess herded the Families and Ed Levy not just to better the city but seemingly because he saw it was a gleaming gold nugget for future campaigning. The man wanted nothing to do with anyone who wasn't his supporter or from the downtown crowd getting involved in that levy. I saw and heard about his attitude and he lost me permanently as a potential supporter because of it. <br /><br />My guess is Debell is done with school board the next go round. But it is clear he cares about schools. The logical next step is BFF to Burgess in a mayoral run and getting the whole establishment crowd - The Alliance of course - behind that candidate.<br /><br />All conjecture, but makes sense especially watching Debell's turn for the worse IMHO as the new board has started.<br /><br />There will be other mayoral candidates. I will be looking for someone strong on education but with a more inclusive attitude than Burgess' annoying patrician style and general dissing of the neighborhood activists. Hope Debell finds that spine we sometimes see and finds a better candidate too.<br /><br />SouthieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-16399867840358036452012-02-16T10:33:13.725-08:002012-02-16T10:33:13.725-08:00"I can also see the concern how this autonomy..."I can also see the concern how this autonomy may get abused if individual schools are allowed to set up relationship with private groups to run/fund a school, or for a small group to speak and make decisions without the larger community/parental input or buy in."<br /><br />PS Mom,<br /><br />I share your concerns.Kathynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80213677039798792322012-02-16T10:26:37.899-08:002012-02-16T10:26:37.899-08:00I'll bet Burgess was Bridge's and Hanauer&...I'll bet Burgess was Bridge's and Hanauer's proxy. <br /><br />Yeah, him for mayor and our schools like Bloomberg's NY debacle.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74415589420225105152012-02-16T10:21:23.329-08:002012-02-16T10:21:23.329-08:00David,
There are advantages to Creative Approach ...David,<br /><br />There are advantages to Creative Approach Schools. However, Michelle's article does not advocate giving up School Board control. <br /><br />I don't think this proposal will stop charter advocates. There is just to much $$ behind the charter movement.Kathynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64380771051427944232012-02-16T10:01:18.281-08:002012-02-16T10:01:18.281-08:00"I know of no other elected officials that wo..."I know of no other elected officials that would EVER give away power. I'm sure Tim Burgess, who for some reason came to meeting and sat in the back mostly looking at his computer"<br /><br />Absolutely.<br /><br />For me, the biggest problem is School Board giving up oversight. DeBell has been systematically willing to give up school board control. He sat - alone- writing 1620, signed onto this MOU giving up oversight etc. DeBell felt it necessary to bad mouth his colleagues in the media to pass 1620 etc. What is going on? Why was Burgess in the audience? I suspect there is a lot more going on.Disgustednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13645768148199364992012-02-16T09:57:00.175-08:002012-02-16T09:57:00.175-08:00I should add this whole Creative Schools MOU feels...I should add this whole Creative Schools MOU feels a little bit like our WA state legislature unable/unwilling to come up with ways to fund Basic Education, so they are doing the very next best thing to appear like they are doing something about education: Charters and Teacher Evaluation Bills.<br /><br />The district can't do the hard work of fixing its flaws and managing this behemoth, so instead works out a deal to affect a small group of schools and kids so it looks like they are trying to do something (but not really because they hand off that resonsibility to individual school to fix itself). Meanwhile, the real problems of this district remain just like our state basic ed funding.<br /><br />PS momAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14385662927088022392012-02-16T09:49:29.488-08:002012-02-16T09:49:29.488-08:00PS mom FTWPS mom FTWCharlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11498984386975834612012-02-16T09:28:07.701-08:002012-02-16T09:28:07.701-08:00I guess I still don't get this whole creative ...I guess I still don't get this whole creative school MOU thing. I can understand why this might be good thing in allowing individual school more autonomy on how to deliver instruction to meet the needs of its student population. I can also see the concern how this autonomy may get abused if individual schools are allowed to set up relationship with private groups to run/fund a school, or for a small group to speak and make decisions without the larger community/parental input or buy in.<br /><br />Just like the charter bill, there is the appearance of good intention, but not a lot of safeguards to trigger oversight. There's a lot of ambiguity and vagueness in the ability of this MOU to allow schools to deviate from SPS policies and board oversight. <br /><br />Why do we go from extreme to extreme? We have in some ways been down this path with school based decision making and under MGJ, back to centralized decision making. What is wrong with working a C & I policy to come up with proper instructional guideline allowing for more liberal waiver process (but has accountability attached)? Why not fixed the flaws within the system? Instead we create a separate system for a set of schools to operate under, yet leaving a majority of schools chaffing under policies that don't work or not enforced. How is this a good thing? <br /><br />What's the advantage here? Some schools may thrive and be better performers under creative school MOU? IF so, why not open that up to all schools? Put in accountabillity and guidelines so they are clear and leave less room for abuse potential. Why not take the time and do it right? <br /><br />PS momAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32925438069338184652012-02-16T09:16:58.019-08:002012-02-16T09:16:58.019-08:00Could a South end school use the MOU to offer a ye...<i>Could a South end school use the MOU to offer a year round school, or have extended day? </i><br /><br />I guess that could happen...but that's the problem with neighborhood schools. Southend schools are not 100% FRL or kids at risk. The southend, especially areas around RBHS and many of the elementaries—and certainly Aki Kurose as the only middle school, draw from families in every socio-economic category. There ARE kids in those million-dollar homes along the lake and on Island Drive whose families do not want or need year-round school, nor extended hours. Ditto for all the solidly middle-class families. <br /><br />Restructuring a neighborhood school to act like a chartee to serve at-risk kids will only send more families who just want and need a traditional, solid curriculum to private schools.<br /><br />SolvayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68086537020328102012012-02-16T08:49:24.004-08:002012-02-16T08:49:24.004-08:00Kidsfirst, right on all points but the school has ...Kidsfirst, right on all points but the school has to have benchmarks on how it closes the achievement gap. You can't change just to change; there has to be a plan of how it all works. <br /><br />That said, it's quite the new world.<br /><br />I personally would LOVE to hear about a community where parents and teachers worked together to create something better (that closes the achievement gap). It may happen but I think the possibilities for problems are huge.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63205040423173792802012-02-16T08:07:32.710-08:002012-02-16T08:07:32.710-08:00PO3 that's exactly what I was thinking.
Coul...PO3 that's exactly what I was thinking. <br /><br />Could a school use the MOU to, say, become a traditional math school? Or to be able to escape the mandate to use NSF science kits or Writers Workshop, etc.?<br /><br />Could a High School use the MOU to start their day at 9A instead of 750A? Could they use the MOU to offer home made vegetarian lunches (like NOVA used to) instead of the factory lunches they have to use now? <br /><br />Could a school use the MOU to have more say in the hiring of their principal (remember only alts are granted this right now)?<br /><br />Could a South end school use the MOU to offer a year round school, or have extended day? <br /><br />I don't know that this MOU is only for alternative schools. <br /><br />kidsfirstanonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80065707264828682692012-02-16T07:56:03.532-08:002012-02-16T07:56:03.532-08:00Charlie, right as usual. I forgot - real change i...Charlie, right as usual. I forgot - real change is hard.<br /><br />David, about right but you left out that the door to outside groups coming into schools is now wide open. <br /><br />Po3 - glass half full and you're right and good for you.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.com