tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post1552224986399694450..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Latest District Answers to School Boundary QuestionsMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36570316658261183612016-05-22T14:11:12.212-07:002016-05-22T14:11:12.212-07:00That was Notta at 2:10.
NottaThat was Notta at 2:10.<br />NottaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71365322967331086232016-05-22T14:10:34.261-07:002016-05-22T14:10:34.261-07:00The problem is that RBHS doesn't offer the app...The problem is that RBHS doesn't offer the appropriate courses for incoming HC students.<br /><br />Does RBHS offer honors LA classes? Their catalog indicates no. AP Language Arts classes? No. How about Precalculus, which is what many HC students need in 9th grade? Nope. Calculus? Again, nope. Any AP math classes at all? No. Maybe AP science? No. AP social studies? No. And not really required, but important for many HC students, Orchestra? No. <br /><br />HC students have traditionally been shipped off to Garfield in order to create a critical mass to be able to offer sufficiently challenging courses. Sending 9th grade HC students to RBHS in a year would mean trying to quickly recreate a GHS type program, hiring new teachers and training them in AP courses, all for a temporary solution. Would the idea be that many of the Garfield teachers would be forced to move to RBHS instead, since they'd lose 9th grade (and then also 10th grade the next year) HC students, and thus wouldn't need as many of the more challenging classes? <br /><br />How many north end kids are likely to make the trek all the way to RBHS for limited access to challenging classes? I hazard a guess: not many. They'll opt for their neighborhood school instead, since many of the north end high schools currently offer a better slate of options. Not as rich as Garfield, but close. So they'd probably opt out of the HCC pathway and stay at their already overcrowded neighborhood school, so the problem we were trying to solve would still be there. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74963097307363064942016-05-21T20:17:59.421-07:002016-05-21T20:17:59.421-07:00The southern boundary for Garfield is just south o...The southern boundary for Garfield is just south of Jackson, at Charles, I believe. A couple blocks south of Garfield. To make neighborhood kids who live in the immediate area of Garfield travel miles to make room for HCC at Garfield is more than politically unrealistic. It is jawdropping. In this scenario, Montlake, Capitol Hill and Madison Park would be able to stay at GHS, the central district kids would be moved south. How about HCC kids go to Rainier Beach for the year or two? Franklin is full - it is Rainier Beach that is the school with room. But you can't send the lowest SES population at GHS away for a year or two to make room for HCC. Not a solution.<br /><br />SESAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86646215278698907662016-05-20T13:58:34.991-07:002016-05-20T13:58:34.991-07:00No, I don't think it's politically feasibl...No, I don't think it's politically feasible, even though it makes sense from a logistics standpoint. We have a lot of need for capacity in the north, and there's excess capacity in the south. In addition to Rainier Beach, Chief Sealth and West Seattle are also projected to have additional capacity. Unfortunately, all those schools are particularly far away for north end students. How can we shift things, so the capacity we have will best fit where the students are? <br /><br />Logically speaking, it seems to make more sense to have high schools continue to provide high school services if there's room, rather than have a few middle schools try to figure out how to do it (when everyone knows middle school is already the weak link) even while additional high school capacity sits unused. <br /><br />Politically, though, I'm sure it's a non-starter. <br /><br />NottaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65227902508543053072016-05-20T13:35:09.280-07:002016-05-20T13:35:09.280-07:00I am trying not to gape- do you think that is even...I am trying not to gape- do you think that is even a little politically feasible, Notta? I'm not sure it's preferable, but I definitely think it could never, ever happen. Plus I believe the south end capacity is more complicated than that, isn't it? It's really just Rainier Beach that has room, right?<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81504679500096661142016-05-20T13:15:27.451-07:002016-05-20T13:15:27.451-07:00In 2017 there's sufficient high school capacit...In 2017 there's sufficient high school capacity overall, just not in the right places. More space is needed for north end students, while several south end high schools have plenty of room. The current scheme already sends some north end students to the south end (HC students). There is room to accommodate all 9th graders in actual comprehensive high schools, it's just a matter of figuring out who goes where. <br /><br />The north end students currently being sent south are those who have the greatest need for high level classes. Garfield has a critical mass of HC students, allowing for access appropriately challenging classes. One option would be to continue GHS as the HCC pathway school for 2017 and 2018, diverting non-HCC south end 9th graders to other south end schools that have capacity. This would allow all 9th graders to have a comprehensive high school experience, and access to appropriate courses. Then in 2019 when Lincoln opens and the Ingraham expansion is complete, those HCC students could return to the north end, and south end students could transfer over to Garfield to finish up if they wanted. While it's not ideal to switch high schools a year or two in, they'd be doing it in large cohorts--and there's going to be a lot of high school switching that year already. <br /><br />Notta FanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49052514958186670482016-05-20T12:31:18.809-07:002016-05-20T12:31:18.809-07:00Here's a link to the agenda from a recent work...Here's a link to the <a href="http://www.seattleschools.org/UserFiles/Servers/Server_543/File/District/Departments/School%20Board/15-16agendas/04272016agendaNewFolder/20160427_Agenda_OWS_CapitalProjects_SemiAnnualReport_Packet.pdf" rel="nofollow">agenda</a> from a recent work session. Capacity and enrollment projections information begins on page 41.<br /><br />For 2017-18 the current assignment methods will not work for the Central and Northwest regions.<br /><br />In the Central region, Garfield will be over capacity by 476 while the other secondary schools will be under-enrolled. (NOVA 173, Meany 506 and Washington 438.) One solution would be to house all ninth graders at Washington and all incoming sixth graders at Meany. <br /><br />In the Northwest region, Ballard will by over capacity by 296 while Whitman will be under-enrolled by 508.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43834022790823848872016-05-20T11:37:30.334-07:002016-05-20T11:37:30.334-07:009th graders staying at middle schools that have ro...9th graders staying at middle schools that have room. I am not sure on who exactly. But when I looked at the report HCC students were a major part of the reason for the growth at Garfield, not sure about how they impact Ballard, Roosevelt. Eaglestaff would likely have some room, don't know about Washington & JAMS who might be able to fit with portables. I have a current HCC middle school student who will be affected. It seems that they might be best served by a couple (not all) middle schools adding 9th grade they would also need to invest in the appropriate AP classes & high school teachers. <br />-MS Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53623583227414397782016-05-20T11:23:57.490-07:002016-05-20T11:23:57.490-07:00This morning is my first approach with this idea. ...This morning is my first approach with this idea. I really, really dislike the idea of split shifts and year round rotating schools, and personally would pull my child rather than put them through that, but I would not pull a child over having 9th grade at a "junior high." Even if not all 9th graders had this. It seems to me in this case that the district would save so, so, so much money doing it that the support needed would be a mroe than reasonable cost. There are a few positives- 9th and 12th graders are pretty different socially, and delaying entry into that more adult social world is on the whole positive (especially for girls). More leadership, built in class closeness, etc. I don't see any way around having small class sizes, though the district does do its best to surprise me there.<br /><br />I was thinking Eaglestaff would have room, so those 9th graders. JAMS might if it had tons of portables, but I have run no numbers at all. I know it would be complicated. I wish I could say Hale would be a good place to access advanced learning classes, but their model doesn't really work well with most significantly advanced students from what I have heard. If I thought the other option was just crowding and tons of portables for a year at several high schools I think I would prefer that, but I am afraid that is not an actual option.<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41055576558020894572016-05-20T11:10:41.030-07:002016-05-20T11:10:41.030-07:009th graders headed to a high school that does not ...9th graders headed to a high school that does not have seats for them? <br /><br />Which school is using John Marshall in 2017? That might be a temporary solution for north end kids whose middle school is also overcrowded. <br /><br />Look - I don't have a kid who wil be affected. I'm notta fan of huge disruptive changes being disclosed at the very last minute when it's too late for community input.<br /><br />Notta Fan - what do you suggest as a solution? Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62612060830559750892016-05-20T11:03:21.390-07:002016-05-20T11:03:21.390-07:00those few 9th graders affected
Which 9th graders ...<i>those few 9th graders affected</i><br /><br />Which 9th graders are people talking about? All north end 9th graders? HCC 9th graders? Certain schools only? I'm still not clear.<br /><br />Notta FanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77678589466087128792016-05-20T10:35:32.644-07:002016-05-20T10:35:32.644-07:00*If* they were to consider keeping some 9th grader...*If* they were to consider keeping some 9th graders at school with room instead of sending them to high schools(Eagelstaff, maybe JAMS with tons of portables?), causing the entire system to have to go to split shits, I would hope they would be able to see that the enormous amount of disruption and money saved by doing this makes it worth giving those students, for that one year, tiny class sizes, access to the right classes, ability to join sports teams and clubc at whatever school they are slated to go to(and provide bussing), etc. I don't know if it would at all be enough, but if it would it seems very preferable to spend a lot of money on those few 9th graders affected than change the entire system for 2 years until Lincoln comes online. At least that is where I would start (I have a child who could be affected, and I prefer staying at middle school to split shifts or year round school)<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46147310530358980982016-05-20T10:22:39.381-07:002016-05-20T10:22:39.381-07:00P.S. I had heard some talk in March about "hi...P.S. I had heard some talk in March about "high school boundary discussions" (internally?) happening this Spring. I am wondering what kind of discussions are happening. Would be great if we heard from the district that they are studying various ways to address high school capacity in the interim to 2019. This is better than "will just have to deal with overcrowding until 2019" which makes no sense when schools will be too overcrowded to function. <br /><br />In addition, we don't even know who exactly from HIMS or Whitman will go over to Eaglestaff when it opens Fall 2017. There is still talk of grandfathering. Flip said they would not announce for certain until Spring 2017. <br /><br />-MS<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66731208238907962802016-05-20T10:05:18.607-07:002016-05-20T10:05:18.607-07:00Agree with Lynn. I don't think adding 9th grad...Agree with Lynn. I don't think adding 9th grade is ideal, but perhaps preferable to split shifts in high school and kids starting at 6 or 7 AM! That sounds worse. But I read online about districts that implemented split shifts/extended days successfully. My own elementary school added a 7th grade when I was young to a K-6 model. I enjoyed staying at the school another year & being among the oldest another year. Built confidence. I realize that 9th grade & high school is very different with clubs & activities. They would need to offer the exact same AP or 9th grade courses the high school offers, taught by HS teachers. The only difference would be location. Regardless, the district has to come up with viable solutions. It will likely not please all. <br />-MS Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20988321162773710772016-05-20T09:43:52.157-07:002016-05-20T09:43:52.157-07:00I don't think it's ideal either. I think i...I don't think it's ideal either. I think it's preferable to split shifts or a year round schedule. Do you prefer one of those? <br /><br />As for portables, that might work. Wait for the howling though when people realize they'd have to be placed on the fields. <br /><br />Flip Herndon and Shauna Heath are responsible for making plans for high school capacity management. Is it coincidence that she has found another job and he's been interviewing for other positions? The whole situation will blow up this fall when the board realizes there are no seats for freshman in 2017 and kids need more opportunities to earn credits than they have in the past and each school will be choosing its own weekly late start or early release day and transportation has to make that work. Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83131536649378828352016-05-20T09:29:29.117-07:002016-05-20T09:29:29.117-07:00@ Lynn and MS, Are you suggesting this for ALL 8t...@ Lynn and MS, Are you suggesting this for ALL 8th graders, or just those in HCC? <br /><br />Keeping kids at middle school for 9th grade is likely to deny them access to higher level classes they need, as well as all sorts of club activities. Do you really think the middle schools would all add on genuine high school level classes for a year? Even now, HCC Biology in 8th grade is apparently weaker than the version provided in HS. Would all these middle schools add AP classes for kids who are ready? Honors classes? Calculus? World Language 4? High school is a chance for some kids to finally be able to access courses at the right level, but this would make that unlikely. <br /><br />Plus, would they even fit? Eagle Staff might be able to retain its 8th graders for a year, but I doubt all the rest of the north end middle schools could. And adding a grade would mean even less flexibility in class configurations, so more space would be needed than the numbers suggest. <br /><br />Then there's the matter of the possible new schedule for high school in 2017, in order to meet the 24-credit requirement. MS will stay on current semester schedule, but HS could move to trimesters. <br /><br />Notta FanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91278641336382849202016-05-20T07:55:15.735-07:002016-05-20T07:55:15.735-07:00Please, no. 9th graders should matriculate to high...Please, no. 9th graders should matriculate to high school. My child would rather be in a portable than be left in middle school.<br /><br />-just no<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21429808947222515082016-05-20T06:47:21.808-07:002016-05-20T06:47:21.808-07:00Adding on to Lynn's suggestion, 8th graders co...Adding on to Lynn's suggestion, 8th graders could also stay at Eaglestaff middle for 9th grade until Lincoln opens & Ingraham adds seats in 2019. There would be some room according to projections. Who are the people who would working on these decisions other than Flip Herndon? <br />-MSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21493455066321724152016-05-19T19:32:21.350-07:002016-05-19T19:32:21.350-07:00I recall split shifts coming up during the start t...I recall split shifts coming up during the start times discussions with staff. As in, 'why do all that work & then go to split shifts shortly afterward', 'well what happens then if we have split shifts', etc. It seemed to me that it was in the back of minds at JSCEE at that time. Extended day was also mentioned numerous times, including in one of the surveys. Where high schools would have longer school days, but students would not. So that some students would have class 1-6 period & some would have 2-7th periods to decrease the number of students needing class space at any one time. I suspect though, that student schedules would make it hard to guarantee the missed class period was at one end of the day.<br /><br />-HS ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34563303254094417422016-05-19T17:27:38.265-07:002016-05-19T17:27:38.265-07:00@ SPS Mom - I've seen an email from the AL off...@ SPS Mom - I've seen an email from the AL office that suggested SPS begin planning that all comprehensive high schools become HCC sites for their attendance area. On follow-up I was told that there had not been "no formal discussions" about that, that these were just "thinking out loud" type ideas about "distant possibilities." This was in fall 2015, and I was assured there were "no changes for 2016." That seemed like pretty clear evidence to me that the AL dept was at least open to the idea. Whether or not that was the preferred strategy--of AL and/or others at JSCEE--I have no idea. <br /><br />HIMSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19668227338686917732016-05-19T16:45:28.473-07:002016-05-19T16:45:28.473-07:00Joe Wolf from the Capital Projects and Planning De...Joe Wolf from the Capital Projects and Planning Department posted here that he had provided information on those types of schedules to the head of Teaching and Learning. <br /><br />Split shifts would have some students in class from 6am to noon and others from noon to 6pm. (Not necessarily those specific times but something like that.) When I've read about schools that have done this in the near past, it's been the response to some kind of emergency that required renovation or repairs to a building. <br /><br />There are alternative solutions we could put in place until Lincoln reopens. Ninth graders could stay at Washington. The empty seats in the Mann building could be used as a Garfield annex. This is less likely - Ted Howard has been pretty clear that he thinks the school should be reduced to about 1,500 students.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40720726140156834432016-05-19T14:46:40.034-07:002016-05-19T14:46:40.034-07:00- Can someone please define "split shifts&quo...- Can someone please define "split shifts" and also let me know if this is a guess or <br />they were told by someone at the district. Isn't there still a capacity limit & don't they have to act if over due to fire & safety codes, class size limits etc? In support of HIMS mom's feeling, I spoke with NW director of schools Jon Halfaker at a meeting. He has a kid at Garfield and speaking about capacity stated "something had to change regarding HCC & Garfield". He said especially since "there are AP courses at every high school". I disagreed. I was told by an advanced learning rep that due to "critical mass" Garfield is the only school offering multiple sections of various AP courses to enable best scheduling. Not sure if we would reach that critical mass at the other high schools. Ingraham can't support all the north end HCC kids, neither can neighborhood high schools so that is not a solution. <br />-still perplexedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-3927317238507164912016-05-19T14:46:29.270-07:002016-05-19T14:46:29.270-07:00Question about running start - there are 3 communi...Question about running start - there are 3 community colleges in Seattle. Do running start students have to attend a specific one depending on high school assignment area, or can you pick any one you want? There are differences in the courses/ programs available.<br /><br />Mom of 4Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89170327917858560662016-05-19T13:58:36.592-07:002016-05-19T13:58:36.592-07:00SPS Mom, you might want to consider Running Start....SPS Mom, you might want to consider Running Start.<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33338809557904035892016-05-19T13:48:42.757-07:002016-05-19T13:48:42.757-07:00The choice between a dramatically overcrowded scho...The choice between a dramatically overcrowded school with a lot of offerings (though no guarantee that they will be available) and less dramatically overcrowded school with fewer offerings (and still no guarantee of availability) is one that each family will have to make for themselves.<br /><br />As we know, the District has re-defined HC as a service rather than a program, and, moreover, a service available at every school. Each school will draft their own fiction for their CSIP on how they will pretend to provide HC services. Once that's done, the district leadership will raise more questions about why we even have HCC at Garfield, they will note that there are no special classes for HCC students, and they will, essentially, argue that they have no program there and never have. This, of course, is in direct opposition to what they have been telling the public and the OSPI for decades.<br /><br />The truth, the actual truth, not the official truth, is that in HCC and self-contained Spectrum the cohort is a big part of the program. The cohort has real value. Even in the schools and classrooms where the curriculum or the instruction fails to offer acceleration, depth, or breadth of content, the cohort carries enough value to make the program worthwhile. The students learn from their peers and are challenged by their peers to do more and go further. At Garfield, the classes and the instruction are no different from those available to every student, so it is the cohort alone that provides the difference. The District used to say that, at the high school level, the cohort IS the program. So, for them to break up the cohort is for them to dissolve the program.<br /><br />They will claim to replace it with whatever the schools invent for the purposes of their CSIP, but whatever fantasy they spin it won't really exist and, in most cases, without a cohort it wouldn't be effective even if it did exist.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.com