tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post1612365722282489026..comments2024-03-28T23:38:22.511-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Gates SpeechMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82457814324080161882010-07-19T11:20:53.301-07:002010-07-19T11:20:53.301-07:00I would agree that my posts here are too simplisti...I would agree that my posts here are too simplistic. <br /><br />My point is that "venture philanthropy" isn't necessarily a bad thing: the point of it is to choose projects in a way that makes it more likely the philanthropist's goals are met. Andrew Carnegie built libraries. He didn't just hand millions of dollars over to city governments to do whatever they wanted.<br /><br />That is not to say that some of these philanthropists don't have additional motives and are trying to drive projects that make them money in other areas. That is also true of politicians and their hangers on, and they don't even put any money into the system. (See some links to Neil Bush and Ignite Learning <a href="http://www.citizensforethics.org/taxonomy/term/1087" rel="nofollow">here </a>for instance).Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42373921107605428892010-07-17T19:34:43.856-07:002010-07-17T19:34:43.856-07:00Maureen, I think you're being a little naive. ...Maureen, I think you're being a little naive. Gates gives his money and takes his money away if the entity he gave it to is not doing what he wants. It's not like we are using his money to fund something basic; there are very strict rules to how it can be used. That's okay but let's not pretend like it's all good. It's got good points and bad points.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75638432028672998082010-07-17T17:03:28.388-07:002010-07-17T17:03:28.388-07:00So, you're hearing me talk a lot about educati...<i>So, you're hearing me talk a lot about education as the key to economic growth. Obviously, Microsoft sees software as catalytic in many areas, but I do put this at the top. It's catalytic in business formation, catalytic in government efficiency, government transparency, and I know there have been good discussions about all of these things.</i><br /><br />I believe education IS the key to economic growth (as well as personal, emotional, health happiness...). And I think software can be catalytic in information provision in all sorts of areas. Bill Gates agrees with me. Plus he makes money selling software. So what? It is up to us and our elected representatives to make sure we balance Gate's influence so that technology doesn't get too much emphasis. Use his money and bully pulpit to cover the things that we agree are good about technology (why is it bad for Guatemalan teachers to be allowed to buy computers for $10 per month?). That frees up tax money to put towards the other areas of education that we think are important.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56092578696065198992010-07-16T21:57:02.027-07:002010-07-16T21:57:02.027-07:00reader... from the Gates Governers' Forum spee...reader... from the Gates Governers' Forum speech Gavroche gave a live link to above, re profits for Microsoft and other IT companies...<br /><br /><i>"...I am very optimistic about the future. The world as a whole continues to make breakthroughs. <b>The speed of the chips, the speed of the networks, the quality of the software, not just in quantitative terms but in qualitative terms, things like visual recognition, speech recognition, mapping information, learning algorithms, textbooks online</b> so that kids can navigate and use interactive information...<br /><br />In education some of the new dollars aren't just to spend more money but also to finally really measure future effectiveness, take some of the experimental models, which in this country are called charter schools, and get behind them, let them duplicate; and in the case of Microsoft and my foundation we're looking at breakthrough ways of using online material, both videos and interactive tests that can diagnose what a student knows, what they don't know, and made education far more effective....<br /><br />So, you're hearing me talk a lot about education as the key to economic growth. <b>Obviously, Microsoft sees software as catalytic in many areas, </b>but I do put this at the top. It's catalytic in business formation, catalytic in government efficiency, government transparency, and I know there have been good discussions about all of these things."</i><br /><br />All of this software/hardware development for education equates to more money going into the Microsoft coffers...<br /><br />Gates goes on to speak about how teachers in some countries have to <b>buy their own computers at $10/month from Microsoft/the Gates Foundation...</b><br /><br /><i>"Now, this all boils down to individual opportunities. We're committed to help with this at all levels of the system, even very young people who get the comfort, all the way up to the university where it's kind of tragic if you're investing in somebody at the university level for them not to have the comfort <b>and the tools and the latest software.</b><br /><br />We work, of course, through Partners in Learning. That's our way of going to the education groups in each country, and saying how can we best work with you.<br /><br />And it's been adopted; you know, what class do we start in, how do we train the teachers, <b>how much online content do we have.</b> ...<br /><br />One example in <b>Guatemala is that the Ministry of Education is going to ensure complete access to computers over the next three years.<br /><br />Now, one of the things they know -- and this is a lesson we've seen -- is you've got to get the teachers so they don't feel threatened by this, and so they're making sure the teachers get them early on, and they actually have a very inexpensive way that those teachers can buy the machine for $10 a month, and actually have them home and get comfortable, so the students are not too far ahead, and they feel like they can integrate it into the classroom. It's a great kind of program, and one that I think will be a success and could spread elsewhere."</b></i><br /><br />Money, money, money - its a rich man's world.... ahahaha - all the things I could do, if I had a little money, honey, in a rich man's world... why I could buy and control the education systems of the world and in my monopolistic fashion, stock it with my hardware and software....Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80844766630404302682010-07-16T21:21:53.495-07:002010-07-16T21:21:53.495-07:00Well Shahila, I do agree with you that dilly-dall...Well Shahila, I do agree with you that dilly-dallying around with education seems to be a hobby for the rich and famous (along with a dozen of bloggers). I don't think this special hobby makes anyone skilled or knowledgeable. The following do NOT qualify anybody for influence: having lots of money, having a kid or 2 in public school, teaching math, etc. I also eschew private donations on principle. Schools should be publicly funded period. No auctions, pta bakesales, volunteering, special foundations sponsoring needy schools, etc. But if you take money (or services) from one, and accept the inevitable strings, it's going to be a slippery slope... pretty soon, influence is everywhere. That's where we are now.<br /><br />But, I disagree that Microsoft or Bill Gates stands to gain financially from any of this. If you think Microsoft is going to be a beneficiary, you don't understand the slightest thing about its business. Don't you think if they coulda made a mint in public ed... they woulda by now already? Especially since the gravy train has mostly run dry.readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02754095597231700863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-74698945774062328902010-07-15T23:33:43.930-07:002010-07-15T23:33:43.930-07:00See this page for a breakdown of some of Broad'...See this page for a breakdown of some of Broad's 'investments'<br /><br /><a href="http://broadeducation.org/investments/current_investments/investments_all.html" rel="nofollow">http://broadeducation.org/investments/current_investments/investments_all.html</a><br /><br />almost total control of the country's education system from go to whoa...<br /><br />that's what "venture philanthropy" in education buys you... that's what the ROI is...Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29560945298631601602010-07-15T22:35:20.019-07:002010-07-15T22:35:20.019-07:00Sahila says: and Broad and Mike Milken call it ven...<b>Sahila</b> says: <i>and Broad and Mike Milken call it venture philanthropy for a reason... just like venture capitalists, they expect a return on their 'philanthropic' investment... profits and competent,compliant workers...<br /></i><br /><br />You know, I really don't agree with you here.<br /><br />I see "venture philanthropy" as an effort to make sure you are getting the most bang for your donated buck. Why is that wrong? If you have $X to donate and you have the choice of two projects: the first raises 10 children out of poverty (and trickles down to their children). The other pays for (e.g.) art camp for those ten kids for a month each (with no lasting results), why would you object to a system that helps you choose the first investment over the second? Why is trying to put your donated dollars into the most productive project wrong? You imply that "venture philanthropy" means the return goes directly to the philanthopist. I do not believe that is true. I think the point is the philanthropist wants to maximize the good that they do for the dollars they are donating. Why is that wrong?Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36357415401214225822010-07-15T21:09:13.275-07:002010-07-15T21:09:13.275-07:00What I'm saying is he favours expensive top do...What I'm saying is he favours expensive top down solutions that benefit big business and dont solve the problems... monopoly thinking...<br /><br />He's an idiot to think that you can scale up education and health solutions using technology - what works is small scale community based initiatives that are tailored for specific conditions in each community...<br /><br />I've got friends working in Africa and India doing exactly that - working on health, education, farming and housing, enabling communities to decide and implement for themselves what they need and how they want to solve their problems...<br /><br />check out Project Ethiopia - started and continued by two people from the Interfaith Community Church where I sometimes hang out...<br /><br /><a href="http://projectethiopia.com/" rel="nofollow">http://projectethiopia.com/</a><br /><br />Judy and Dennis started this about five years ago with $300 in spending money they had left over at the end of a safari trip... they paid a guide to take them to a local village, saw the need, gave their money to buy books for the school and then came home and decided to just keep doing what they could... Its amazing what these two people have managed to help these communities create...<br /><br />small is beautiful and sustainable and empowering...and white multi-billion dollar corporations arent making profits on the backs of other peoples' misery...Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4355383115736601522010-07-15T20:37:49.020-07:002010-07-15T20:37:49.020-07:00Gavroach, again, Bill Gates doesn't "ow...Gavroach, again, Bill Gates doesn't "own" Microsoft. He does own Microsoft stock, so do I. Yes Microsoft has a presence in education, but a small one. I can assure you educational software or initiatives are essentially a big fat 0 investmentwise at Microsoft. In fact, the "educational software" department, such as it is, was been re-orged under Office.... (meaning it's a gnat under the foot of an elephant). I'm not saying they are good products, that they will reform any school, or anything else. Just that Bill Gates really doesn't have a personal payback scheme.<br /><br />Shahila, now you're saying that the Gates global health initiative (also evil) is also designed to personally benefit Bill Gates? or Microsoft, by proxy? (He's got a lot of dough, it IS going to be invested in something.) And also that somehow that is linked to his educational initiatives? Right. More idiotic paranoia that limits your credibility.readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02754095597231700863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72416603569988202362010-07-15T13:12:05.453-07:002010-07-15T13:12:05.453-07:00Maureen - he and Broad and Mike Milken call it ven...Maureen - he and Broad and Mike Milken call it <b>venture</b> philanthropy for a reason... just like venture capitalists, they expect a return on their 'philanthropic' investment... profits and competent,compliant workers...<br /><br />These capitalists (IT, Insurance/Construction/Junk Bonds) have just moved their operations into a new, lucrative, virtually risk free arena - probably the last bastion of public spending...Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31293827829410399322010-07-15T12:47:31.120-07:002010-07-15T12:47:31.120-07:00I'm not sure it's necessary to ascribe nef...I'm not sure it's necessary to ascribe nefarious monetary motives to Gates as far as technology in education is concerned. The fact is that he is obviously someone who believes in the power of technology. He wouldn't have been successful in the industry if he were a Luddite. <br /><br />Authors probably think there isn't enough writing in schools. Mathematicians want more time spent on math. I bet he would support technology in the classroom even if he never made a penny on it (especially since he has plenty of pennies already.)Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22208826812671521162010-07-15T12:44:37.024-07:002010-07-15T12:44:37.024-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42528947973033140182010-07-15T08:38:28.221-07:002010-07-15T08:38:28.221-07:00Reader....
Bill Gates/Microsoft MO is plainly vis...Reader....<br /><br />Bill Gates/Microsoft MO is plainly visible in his education initiative, just as is his MO in global health... and in both cases, there are gross conflicts of interest...<br /><br />The Gates Foundation has billions of dollars invested in pharmaceutical and biotech companies, many specialising in vaccine development and genetic engineering and has links with Monsanto and what does the Foundation do in its 3rd world global health activities?<br /><br />Push expensive vaccine programs in countries that cant afford to buy them without tying their economies to corporations and foreign 'aid' and foster the use of genetically engineered crops/seeds and chemical fertilisers and pesticides sold by Monsanto...<br /><br />Completely ignoring what are the biggest causes of death in those regions, affecting mostly women and children, that have cheap, simple, sustainable, community-level solutions available...<br /><br />I've written about this before and provided references - wont go to that trouble this time...<br /><br />If you want to know more, you can do the research yourself... but I notice that you rarely provide data and sources for your statements, so I have little confidence you will actually go and educate yourself...Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29663907932555791952010-07-15T08:37:39.036-07:002010-07-15T08:37:39.036-07:00No Reader, I merely deleted it because everyone ha...No Reader, I merely deleted it because everyone has been warned that we do not allow anonymous posts. Nothing nefarious about it.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15935680475301346512010-07-15T01:42:26.618-07:002010-07-15T01:42:26.618-07:00reader -- Before you start accusing others of not ...reader -- Before you start accusing others of not doing their homework on issues, you might want to do a bit of reading yourself about Bill Gates' vision for education, beginning with his <b>"School of the Future"</b> in Philadelphia -- no books or pencils, all kids were given laptops (PCs no doubt) and homework was delivered solely through a Microsoft portal, cameras in the classroom, SmartBoards galore, technology was the order of the day.<br /><br /><b><a href="http://www.eschoolnews.com/2009/06/01/school-of-the-future-lessons-in-failure/" rel="nofollow">The school failed,</a></b> by the way.<br /><br />You might also want to peruse a speech that Gates gave last year at <b><a href="http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/exec/craig/2009/03-26GovtLeadersForum2009withBillGates.mspx" rel="nofollow">the Government Leaders Forum,</a></b> in Leesburg, Va. (March 26, 2009):<br /><br />Nearly every point he makes about education leads to some kind of technology or software as the solution. All roads lead to Microsoft. <br /><br />It seems pretty likely that he or his company stands to profit from these tech-tunnel-vision education "reforms" he touts.gavrochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11336376340965305696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6118857799112590992010-07-14T22:51:23.674-07:002010-07-14T22:51:23.674-07:00Wanton deletions of posts? Now the norm on this bl...Wanton deletions of posts? Now the norm on this blog... not to worry. Anony, you must have offended one of the principals. Perhaps the "anonymous" was the problem. Did you insult someone who ran for the office of school board but didn't make it? Perhaps the post content was a problem.<br /><br />Shahila. Does Microsoft make any "online for pay" education sites? Duh. No. Where's the evil payolla? Is money itself just so evil? Rich guy should shut up and pay up.<br /><br />Bottom line. You're out of your depth.readerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02754095597231700863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62692575845568543222010-07-14T21:59:37.524-07:002010-07-14T21:59:37.524-07:00For an interesting read on the AFT convention and ...For an interesting read on the AFT convention and Bill Gates' speech, see:<br /><br /><a href="http://dailycensored.com/2010/07/13/attending-the-aft-convention-in-seattle-and-protesting-with-bamn-and-othes-the-horrific-policies-of-race-to-the-top/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Dailycensored+%28Daily+Censored%29" rel="nofollow">http://dailycensored.com/2010/07/13/attending-the-aft-convention-in-seattle-and-protesting-with-bamn-and-othes-the-horrific-policies-of-race-to-the-top/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Dailycensored+%28Daily+Censored%29</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32079907693430894362010-07-14T19:06:58.612-07:002010-07-14T19:06:58.612-07:00Just out of curiosity, any explanation why my last...Just out of curiosity, any explanation why my last comment was deleted?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91392853037327802312010-07-14T17:32:28.142-07:002010-07-14T17:32:28.142-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8607005163727439422010-07-14T10:38:20.430-07:002010-07-14T10:38:20.430-07:00reader, I don't want to argue with you about M...reader, I don't want to argue with you about Microsoft, but at the core of this issue is, does Bill Gates have a potential conflict of interest when technology overlaps with ed reform? Yes, of course that potential is there. Does it mean he should stay out? No. But it doesn't hurt to remind ourselves of it and do our best to make sure both parties (public schools and Microsoft) will benefit. I don't see what benefit your denial brings unless you like to provoke Sahila....oh.Chris S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17016898261120819596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82511224299220497332010-07-14T10:37:23.138-07:002010-07-14T10:37:23.138-07:00You want technology?
Well check this out:
http:/...You want technology?<br /><br />Well check this out:<br /><br /><a href="http://seattleducation2010.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/gates-ultimate-dream-of-education/" rel="nofollow">http://seattleducation2010.wordpress.com/2010/07/14/gates-ultimate-dream-of-education/</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84019092829237022562010-07-14T10:33:22.025-07:002010-07-14T10:33:22.025-07:00I remember being very amused by the school distric...I remember being very amused by the school district being all too ready to drink the Microsoft kool aid, when it was evident and equivalent to being given a cheap printer, which only used expensive ink/paper which had to be purchased from a certain vendor, and the learning curve was such that classes had to be given on using the printer- every year.<br /><br /><br />We have had Apple computer as our family computers from the time D's elementary school allowed parents to be part of the purchase order, twenty + years ago/ ( the same school the Gates kids attend).<br />Haven't owned any Microsoft products for years- last MS software I had was a copy of Word, when it came on about 11 floppy disks.<br /><br />Technology is certainly important as a tool, but you can teach without it, and should , the younger your students are.<br /><br />Online classes- allow students more flexibility with time offerings, and in subject matter. Some colleges for instance have some onsite meetings, but most classes are online.<br /><br />Robots don't teach the courses- nor do teachers in Mumbai- they are local instructors, who often also teach courses in the school building.<br /><br />It's really predictable to paint Gates as the anti christ, without actually listening to what he is saying. Gotta have a bad guy, I suppose- otherwise who would you feel superior to?Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47790721799086979652010-07-14T09:42:35.021-07:002010-07-14T09:42:35.021-07:00On-line courses can also benefit kids. And all the...On-line courses can also benefit kids. And all the ones I am familiar with include real live teachers.Dorothy Nevillehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17108759281089768738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20727384450587746122010-07-14T08:28:04.485-07:002010-07-14T08:28:04.485-07:00Reader - the latest prong of school based 'edu...Reader - the latest prong of school based 'education reform' is online courses... read an article on that yesterday but dont have time now to find it and post it here... breakfast and playdate for son next on the agenda...<br /><br />And guess who are the beneficiaries of that? Hardware and software providers... Real live teachers gone...Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55752117547414836012010-07-14T08:18:41.280-07:002010-07-14T08:18:41.280-07:00Anonymous -- That's a lot of useful informatio...Anonymous -- That's a lot of useful information. Thanks. I'm curious what led you to check out all those charter schools?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00609840950217103435noreply@blogger.com