tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post1900546282925753694..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Seattle Schools' Enrollment ProjectionsMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger69125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57378101524800722412013-04-19T18:14:52.889-07:002013-04-19T18:14:52.889-07:00@ Parent
I have said this a lot of different ways...@ Parent<br /><br />I have said this a lot of different ways but I will try again. APP is not the capacity problem. APP choice is not the capacity problem. In fact, the limited amount of choice there has been at high school has been because of the APP cohort. <br /><br />Because enough APP students do leave their neighborhood school to be part of the cohorts at either Garfield or Ingraham, that creates the few open spaces that other students do get during open enrollment. <br /><br />The 10% choice seats don't exist, as such. However, the "swirl" of some students leaving a spot that opens a spot is still happening a bit and mostly because of the APP cohort. <br /><br />There is an opinion that somehow APP is getting something special regarding choice. However, in my opinion, I think the APP cohort pays a very steep price for that illusion of choice. Every year APP is on the "let's move them here. No, wait. Let's move them there. No, wait." program. <br /><br />That's not some magic choice option. <br /><br />There are no groups that are left untouched by the capacity challenges. The High School capacity issues are only now beginning to get on people's radar. 7 of the 9 comprehensive high schools and are effectively full, with Roosevelt and Garfield crazy full. There is truly only space at RB and WSHS. WSHS has space because their boundaries are way too small. <br /><br />The bottom line is that you can try to send APP back to all of their attendance area schools so that even the illusion of choice is gone and the only thing that will happen is that there is zero flexibility at high school. kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45870094248264253872013-04-19T07:31:01.140-07:002013-04-19T07:31:01.140-07:00Kellie, that's why APP is so great. There...Kellie, that's why APP is so great. There's still choice, lots of it, just like there used to be. Want IB? Got it. Want AP? (or even just Garfield for some other reason) Got it. Want your neighborhood school? Got that too. Want one of 3 alt schools? Got that too. Nice policy. Cool!<br /><br />ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31480695886348447712013-04-18T10:20:20.910-07:002013-04-18T10:20:20.910-07:00Anon at 10:16,
I just happended to open this post ...Anon at 10:16,<br />I just happended to open this post and saw your comment about Spectrum. Spectrum at Wedgwood is terrible (outside of 4th and 5th) there is no evidence of cluster grouping or special instruction. We applied and got into self-contained Spectrum at Whitter, but hopefully the advanced learning department sees this problem soon, as "cluster-grouped spectrum" is no more than a ALO which is practically Gen Ed. <br /><br />Spectrum is almost gone. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57867156646862962062013-04-18T10:16:50.919-07:002013-04-18T10:16:50.919-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19639110971893287922013-04-18T10:07:22.102-07:002013-04-18T10:07:22.102-07:00There really aren't any open choice seats. Thi...There really aren't any open choice seats. This is the official policy. <br /><i><br />The number of Open Choice seats for 9th<br />– 12th grade students from outside of the attendance area is calculated as follows:<br /><br />Set target enrollments for each grade based on 25% of each school’s program capacity. But, if projected enrollment at any grade is more than 25% of program capacity, reduce targets in all grades accordingly.<br /><br />If the grade or school’s projected enrollment is:<br /><br />90% or less of the grade’s target enrollment, the minimum number of Open Choice seats will be 10%. – There will be more Open Choice seats added (above the minimum) if attendance area enrollment is less than 90% of target enrollment.<br /><br />91% -100% of the grade’s target enrollment, the minimum number of Open Choice seats will be less than 10%.<br /><br />More than 100% of the grade’s target enrollment, there are no Open Choice seats.<br /></i>kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75872747719393033822013-04-18T09:36:28.669-07:002013-04-18T09:36:28.669-07:00Speaking of Garfield, if the proposed 120 APP stud...Speaking of Garfield, if the proposed 120 APP students arrive in 9th Grade next year, there is still a decrease from current 9th grade numbers, which will bring APP to 30% of Garfield's 9th Grade. Are there really that many less neighborhood children or are open choice seats being reallocated to APP. My understanding is that APP at Garfield is not a program, so unlike Ingraham, the seats are interchangeable.<br /><br />QuestionsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30932679586308306542013-04-18T09:04:07.189-07:002013-04-18T09:04:07.189-07:00There is a reason for this policy, albeit one that...There is a reason for this policy, albeit one that folks either love or hate depending on how it impacts their family and their student. <br /><br />Essentially school facilities are not infinite and therefore, the district as a matter of policy needs to have a way to say "enough" for a particular building. Now some buildings are so crowded it doesn't look like it but the attendance area boundaries are the way that capacity is no controlled. <br /><br />Under the choice system, you got an assignment either based on lottery number or distance to a school and you either got your choice or you didn't and that was the end of the story. 75% of people got their choice but that meant 25% did not get a choice school. Those numbers are just for on-time, choice window applications. If you applied after the window, you could only get what was left over. <br /><br />Since enrollment could be controlled with a wait list, if students moved they could keep their seats or via the choice process see if you could get a different seat. This was great if you wanted to keep your seat and not so great if you wanted to move to your new neighborhood school. In most cases, it was highly improbable that you would get your new local school because most schools were "full."<br /><br />Under a geographic assignment system, everyone gets their assignment school. This means that the only way the district can say "enough" is via the attendance area boundaries. So this version is not so great if you want to keep your school. However, it is wonderful if you want to attend new local school. <br /><br />It is simply not possible to "guarantee" both seats for every student. Geographic assignment plans are based on the concept of "swirl." This concept is that the amount of housing in an attendance area is either fixed or changes relatively slowly. So in theory for every student that leaves an area there is a student that enters the area. <br /><br />Under the choice plan, families "could" move near a school during the choice window and secure their seat at their preferred school. They could then move anywhere and keep that seat. If that same guarantee were in place, there would be no mechanism in place for "attrition" to be paired with natural in migration to an area. <br /><br />Using Garfield as an example. Garfield has been a very popular choice school for a long time. Garfield is currently just barely able to keep up with attendance area enrollment. If families could go to Garfield for one month and then move and be guaranteed Garfield, well ... we can all guess what enrollment would look like. <br /><br />kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46805423187156194862013-04-18T08:00:09.533-07:002013-04-18T08:00:09.533-07:00That's insane. Once a kid starts at a school ...That's insane. Once a kid starts at a school they should be allowed to finish all the grades at that school. At the very least, this should be true for middle schools and high schools.<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56651410393973522122013-04-18T07:10:32.203-07:002013-04-18T07:10:32.203-07:00The rule for students who move is an element of po...The rule for students who move is an element of policy - set by the school board. It is one of several that are in direct opposition to the original Framework for the New Student Assignment Plan which was supposed to allow students to remain at their school despite moving.<br /><br />My daughter got an out-of-area assignment to her school but, if we were to move, she would have to get a new one. That's how crazy the rules are.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24063995043621561172013-04-18T07:08:02.263-07:002013-04-18T07:08:02.263-07:00So, it looks like the only people with choice in ...So, it looks like the only people with choice in high school anymore are APP students. They have their choice of 3 comprehensive high schools, with guaranteed admission, and 3 alt schools. Nice.<br /><br />-ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26306085366247760802013-04-17T22:06:44.372-07:002013-04-17T22:06:44.372-07:00I'll also add that normally there is one indiv...I'll also add that normally there is one individual in enrollment who works the wait lists manually, alphabetically by school, per region.<br /><br />They don't have a handy dandy program to do analysis for them. So if you can do some of the foot work you can help speed up the process.<br /><br />Tracy actually is the person that crafts the Enrollment Plans vs. the School Board. She takes input from the Superintendent as to what is desired at the moment and also input from School Board members, and then comes up with a plan that will best work based on the criteria she is given. True - the School Board does vote to approve her plan, but they do not craft the original plan. Also true that once the rules are approved, these are the rules by which Enrollment Services and Planning abide.<br /><br />The current plan was devised under the rule of MGJ if that sheds any light as to some of the harsh edges that are in place.<br /><br />-StepJAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14836684826176042962013-04-17T19:36:09.179-07:002013-04-17T19:36:09.179-07:00Tsailon,
The only way I am familiar with having a...Tsailon,<br /><br />The only way I am familiar with having a wait list move sooner is to do some neighborhood networking to find out who is on the wait list at your spot and above for both schools.<br /><br />It sounds like you were enrolled at Roosevelt and moved into the Hale area or vice-versa.<br /><br />Just to stick with that example - find out who is #1 on the Hale list, and who is #1 and 2 on the Roosevelt list. <br /><br />If a swap can be done -- for example both #1 and #2 on the Roosevelt wait list are enrolled at Hale, and #1 and #2 on the Hale list are enrolled at Roosevelt -- then contact Tracy Libros and let her know such a swap can be had and she will do that. They won't jump locations on the list but will do a #1 for a #1 swap if that is how it is. Sometimes, even just knowing the information for the wait list at the school for which you are on the wait list and then sharing the information with Tracy will be enough for her to do a swap analysis. The term, swap, is my term and nothing techinical from enrollment.<br /><br />You could try the NE Seattle Moms forum on Yahoo as a sleauthing starting point.<br /><br />I have gone through wait list anxiety with all three of my children so wish you the best.<br /><br />-StepJ Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22602916114414559392013-04-17T16:47:10.386-07:002013-04-17T16:47:10.386-07:00Anonymous - yes, they do make you change schools i...Anonymous - yes, they do make you change schools if you move out of an attendance area - they won't make you change during the school year but you are reassigned for the following year. Since the school board came up with this policy I contacted school board members of the assignment areas in question, Harium M-M and Sharon Peaslee, to ask them about it - why seniors weren't grandfathered in, if there had been any discussion about this, if it was an unintended consequence of the policy, etc. Both members completely blew me off and didn't even respond. They just forwarded my email to Tracy Libros, who did respond in a thoughtful and prompt manner. She basically confirmed the policy and what I needed to do (apply for open choice seat, then appeal if necessary) but she couldn't answer any of the questions related to how/why the policy was written that way, because of course the school board came up with the policy, SPS just enforces it.Tsailonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14335227643607870742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17433575492168369132013-04-17T16:39:51.610-07:002013-04-17T16:39:51.610-07:00Melissa - yes, I can appeal the decision and I mus...Melissa - yes, I can appeal the decision and I must get the principal on board to do that, but they won't even look at appeals until June. I was hoping a spot would open up before then. They said most wait list issues aren't resolved until July/August! The individual schools have no idea about the wait list (numbers or who is on it) - all of that info is kept at the district level in the enrollment services office.Tsailonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14335227643607870742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58210521512275526212013-04-17T16:28:54.962-07:002013-04-17T16:28:54.962-07:00Do they really reassign for high school if you mov...Do they really reassign for high school if you move? It seems like once you are in, you are in unless you wish to switch. How awful.<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38839768147169715162013-04-17T15:13:00.197-07:002013-04-17T15:13:00.197-07:00Tsailon, call the principal and explain the situat...Tsailon, call the principal and explain the situation. If there are truly only two students on the waitlist, I would expect it to move. But really, I think you have an excellent case to appeal. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17093239754344166222013-04-17T13:41:55.832-07:002013-04-17T13:41:55.832-07:00Anyone know how likely it is to get a choice assig...Anyone know how likely it is to get a choice assignment off the waitlist? Or how successful the transfer appeals process typically is? We moved from one attendance area to another recently, so kid is assigned to different school for senior year of high school, which to me seems really unfair (no mechanism to grandfather in kids for senior year if they move). We applied for choice spot at current high school so kid can stay there and are #2 on a waiting list of 2. Assigned high school also has a waiting list of 2 and similar waitlist numbers at all grades as current high school. I am panicking.Tsailonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14335227643607870742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-77114716749192424062013-04-17T13:03:10.225-07:002013-04-17T13:03:10.225-07:00Absolutely, Melissa, absolutely.
HPAbsolutely, Melissa, absolutely.<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66150268486797244012013-04-17T12:23:18.537-07:002013-04-17T12:23:18.537-07:00Open Ears is incorrect. Thurgood Marshall has 3 c...Open Ears is incorrect. Thurgood Marshall has 3 classes this year of 5th grade.<br /><br />TM ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50565120651924365082013-04-17T12:20:55.080-07:002013-04-17T12:20:55.080-07:00There is a jump at middle school because some elem...There is a jump at middle school because some elementary APP qualified students choose to stay at their neighborhood school or Spectrum rather than switch to APP in elementary. An equivalent of two classes joined APP@HIMS in 6th grade this year and last. Also, the split between north and south APP enrollment doesn't typically work out to be 50-50.<br /><br />The jump does seem to correlate with the use of MAP scores in AL identification.<br /><br />observerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76122010744057307672013-04-17T12:04:48.947-07:002013-04-17T12:04:48.947-07:00@ Open ears: How many students are there in each 5...@ Open ears: How many students are there in each 5th grade class at TM and L-APP? <br />L-APP = 106<br />TM = 66<br /><br />The increase in the APP population is HUGE, particularly for HIMS. The trend is particularly scary as has been pointed out already. Hope the district has their ears and eyes wide open too.<br /><br />-NumbersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24818834981651600532013-04-17T11:07:57.700-07:002013-04-17T11:07:57.700-07:00HP, yes, reputations (as we all recall from high s...HP, yes, reputations (as we all recall from high school) are hard to change. But I believe that all of our high schools are on the rise and the proof is in the enrollments.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7080063551708288402013-04-17T09:40:26.965-07:002013-04-17T09:40:26.965-07:00IHS students unfortunately have had the reputation...IHS students unfortunately have had the reputation of being hoodlums but that is changing with the addition of IB at Ingraham. I do think it would be in IHS interest to advertise that you can take IB classes without doing the whole IB program. <br /><br />All high schools have reputations, whether deserved or not. Hale had a bad reputation as a drug school and has turned that around (Nathan Inhale was the nickname). I think Ingraham is in the middle of the same type of turnaround and that it will continue to attract more and more neighborhood kids.<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30471411285784949962013-04-17T09:12:06.749-07:002013-04-17T09:12:06.749-07:00cross posted with Melissa and Tami! :)cross posted with Melissa and Tami! :)Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12538715178099767412013-04-17T09:10:14.143-07:002013-04-17T09:10:14.143-07:00I think HP andf open ears are unclear as to how IB...I think <b>HP</b> andf <b>open ears</b> are unclear as to how IB works at Ingraham. Many kids take some IB classes and don't do the full diploma. In that way, it works the same as AP classes at Garfield and other HSs. <br /><br />IBx is an exception to some extent because the APP students take 9th grade core classes as a cohort-but after that they take virtually all of their classes with upperclassmen, some of them are doing the diploma, others are just taking the IB classes that interest them (like IB Business, or Psychology). <br /><br />It's true that IB draws students from outside the assignment area, in the same way BioTech or drama drtaws kids to BHS and RHS, but IB is less exclusionary than those programs (no application or auditions). I expect that quite a few kids who are drawn to IHS by IB don't end up doing the full diploma-but appreciate all that IHS offers.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.com