tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post1922222696238396347..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Seattle Council PTSA Steps into Growth Boundaries DiscussionMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54973427042095146992013-10-30T22:15:14.897-07:002013-10-30T22:15:14.897-07:001. VNESS speaks because last year Eckstein PTA vot...1. VNESS speaks because last year Eckstein PTA voted to silence itself on all boundary issues. No devote this year.<br />2. Tons if board positions still open on the Eckstein PTA. Don't like VNESS? Step up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40600132399898270492013-10-27T20:47:11.853-07:002013-10-27T20:47:11.853-07:00And I assume that any planning re: JAMS opening ne...And I assume that any planning re: JAMS opening next year needs to also involve Eckstein and Hamilton boundary and program assignment issues, no?<br /><br />HIMSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63565513048733762172013-10-27T12:53:40.555-07:002013-10-27T12:53:40.555-07:00I agree that some parts of Growth Boundaries could...I agree that some parts of Growth Boundaries could be slowed down, but others, like JAMS, need to be settled ASAP, so we can move on with the planning for the school itself. <br /><br />There is a community meeting scheduled for the Jane Addams building re-purposing project (Nov 7th, 6:00-7:30, Jane Addams cafeteria), but so far, there have been no community meetings scheduled for planning the programming, focus, etc... of the new middle school. I am hoping that these types of meetings will be scheduled as soon as it is known who will be assigned to JAMS.<br /><br />Last year, many neighborhood families supported Director Peaslee's amendment to put off the assignment of students to JAMS for one year (until 2014-15), so there would be adequate time to plan a new comprehensive middle school. We have a Planning Principal, which I'm grateful for, but in order for proper community input to be considered prior to staff hiring, we have to get started on the community input piece ASAP.<br /><br />This planning year almost didn't happen, and we need to make it count.<br /><br />The JAMS boundary decisions cannot be postponed until late January. If they were, we would be in the same boat as last year, when it was January and families were finding out for the first time that their Eckstein-bound 5th grader may not be assigned to Eckstein.<br /><br />So, I agree with Kellie, JAMS is one example of planning decisions that need to be made as part of the the Growth Boundaries vote in November. <br /><br />- North-end MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63595174000417280962013-10-27T10:50:19.075-07:002013-10-27T10:50:19.075-07:00Thanks. Those things make sense to me.
I think a...Thanks. Those things make sense to me. <br /><br />I think anything that can be done to open Meany earlier should be a priority. Could World School move to leased space (there are less than 225 students I think) until their new school is ready for them? If not, could renovations on the NOVA side of the building start this summer?<br /><br />I haven't heard any discussion of how Fairmount Park will open. If it's a roll up the school won't have many resources allocated to it in the early years. Do parents care about that in elementary schools?<br /><br />The hold up in the north end is clearly the Curriculum and Instruction staff. They have to decide before the November 20th vote how highly capable services will be delivered and they're not even going to begin the discussion until December. It seems there hasn't been any communication between staff working on Growth Boundaries and Teaching and Learning. Who dropped that ball? There are enough APP kids in the north end for two middle school pathways. The problem is finding two middle school communities who are willing to take them. Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72442928882643116662013-10-27T10:32:09.899-07:002013-10-27T10:32:09.899-07:00@ Kellie
Amen!
I do not even understand WHY the ...@ Kellie<br /><br />Amen!<br /><br />I do not even understand WHY the District feels compelled to draw imaginary boundaries for schools not yet built and, by domino effect, change so much so soon for everyone for things that will happen 4, 5 years from now. Because, the net effect is that they are changing things today that are working today. <br /><br /> Why are they so intent on damaging Maple? A school the community works so hard to make great and cohesive? Or, for that matter, the whole south end? Just leave Beacon Hill alone. <br /><br />The 'grand plan' is too grand. It makes no sense. Especially when their track record at predicating the future a few years out has been abysmal. So, they will make whole-systems decisions today about things 6 years out? And thus change all of the boundaries now? And, what if they are wrong? What happens in two years when they have to come back and correct their mistakes? What happens to families, neighborhoods? Siblings will have been split. Children are not ping-pong balls, they can't just bounce around.<br /><br />So, I agree with Kellie. Seems like a lot of people do. Perhaps the Board members will too, and, act accordingly? <br /><br />Which is why, I say,<br /><br />-SLOW DOWNAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80987320406299316652013-10-27T10:16:35.875-07:002013-10-27T10:16:35.875-07:00@ Lynn,
That is a big question and probably need...@ Lynn, <br /><br />That is a big question and probably needs its own thread. <br /><br />The board already voted to start JAMS next September so everything related to JAMS opening needs to be settled. That would include the open questions of APP at Lincoln and the K8 at JM. Both of those questions would have to be settled one way or another to be able to set boundaries for JAMS.<br /><br />However, WP boundaries do not need to be settled. There is likely going to be a lot more changes in the next three years that would most likely cause today's best guess to be undone. So that can wait. <br /><br />Part of Hay to Lowell should have been done last year so that should happen now. <br /><br />Fairmont Park is opening in September so everything related to Fairmont needs to be settled, which most likely means Schmitz and Genesee need to be settled. However, Boren and Arbor Heights could wait. <br /><br />Those are the things that seem to be both critical and urgent because they need to happen one way or another in September 2014, whereas most of the other changes will be "phased in over time." <br /><br />But after there there is a lot of room for debate. There are Steven's families that think the Steven's / Madronna boundary needs to be settled now. But some that would rather wait until the TT Minor question is settled as the families that would go from Stevens to Madronna are the same families that would then boomerang to TT Minor if that opened. kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91412334155724335572013-10-26T17:57:47.707-07:002013-10-26T17:57:47.707-07:00kellie,
What do you think has to happen now?kellie,<br /><br />What do you think has to happen now?Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36985314192269638262013-10-26T07:22:51.340-07:002013-10-26T07:22:51.340-07:00I don't think the district should slow down be...I don't think the district should slow down because they do things too slowly as is and the capacity issues are real and a problem at overcrowded schools and must be addressed before open enrollment begins.<br /><br />I also don't have a problem with them providing computerized options to provide input -- if the only choice had been to go to a meeting, I never could have provided input, but I did review the maps and use the survey to provide feedback. Would be great if they had done MORE types of real, substantive engagement, but I wouldn't critique them for providing at least some options. I am sure there are districts out there that would simply draw the boundary lines without any rounds of public engagement at all.<br /><br />What I DO agree with the letter about is the random decisions in the second round of changes with no reasoning provided. Stevens is over capacity and the first round of changes therefore logically shrunk its area. Now in the second round other different areas are ADDED to its attendance area, with no explanation provided of why this was done or how ADDING to the size of its area is going to fix its over-capacity problems.<br /><br />-- A Stevens MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36237124297176835442013-10-26T06:39:28.557-07:002013-10-26T06:39:28.557-07:00Why not REOPEN John Marshall Middle School as a co...Why not REOPEN John Marshall Middle School as a comprehensive middle school in 2014 including APP (North) MS intact, along with some other SPS program? Restoring John Marshall Middle School to its original school purpose would allow revision of attendance area boundaries in line with enrollment and capacity, including equitable access to advanced learning services and programs as a key component in those boundary revisions.<br /><br />Version 2's “Capacity Management” big issue recommendations (Slides 21-25) are internally inconsistent with its preceding request for board direction in the “Accelerated Progress Program (APP)” big issue section (Slides 16-20). Proposing an immediate APP (North) MS 3-way split, Version 2 actually eliminates one of its own stated open options: “1 all-APP school for elementary APP, 1 all APP-school for middle school.”<br /><br />Where could the APP (North) MS cohort be housed intact, rather than the 3-way split currently being recommended in Version 2 by Superintendent Banda?<br /><br />The SPS board should reopen 952-seat John Marshall Middle School as a fully comprehensive middle school in Fall 2014, and assign APP (North) MS intact to this building (cohousing not with an attendance area school, but with another program, e.g. Pinehurst K-8?). As Version 1 previously recommended, the SPS board should also cohouse Jane Addams K-8 with Jane Addams MS during their respective interim construction <br /><br />Instead, under the heading “North Middle Schools: Full Grade Assignment in Year One,” Version 2 recommends filling John Marshall Middle School with Jane Addams K-8 for two years beginning Fall 2014, forecasting enrollment of 808 rising to 819 students (including many who would actually transfer through choice over to Jane Addams MS). Then in Fall 2016, after Jane Addams K-8 would have moved out, a 2/7 cohort NW APP Wilson-Pacific MS Pathway and the new Wilson-Pacific attendance area MS would be moved together into John Marshall Middle School to begin a 6th grade roll-up, with forecasted combined enrollment of 779 students for one year before a shared move to the new Wilson-Pacific Middle School building in 2017 (Slides 21-22 & 24-25).<br /><br />This current October 16 proposal replaces Version 1, which recommended interim “Co-location of Jane Addams K-8 and JAMS at JAMS 2014-15 and 2015-16" with “Addition of significant numbers of portables to Jane Addams campus.” The SPS board should now reject the new alternative proposal in Version 2 because it would force an immediate 3-way split of APP (North) MS, while simultaneously squeezing that same intact cohort (i.e. about 550 APP middle schoolers at Hamilton) out of presently available interim and indeed permanent space in John Marshall Middle School (952 seats).<br /><br />So the SPS board should adopt the much more sensible earlier interim proposal in Version 1: cohouse Jane Addams Middle School and Jane Addams K-8 during their new building construction. The board should also reopen John Marshall Middle School as a fully comprehensive middle school including APP (North) MS intact in Fall 2014, together with some right-sized option program. Without a needless split, there will be no reason to place 3/7 of the APP (North) MS cohort into Jane Addams Middle School, and this will save as many as 300 seats for JAMS attendance area students.apparentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50426390270800308022013-10-25T20:36:27.950-07:002013-10-25T20:36:27.950-07:00I second what Patrick said. This needs to be settl...I second what Patrick said. This needs to be settled prior to open enrollment!<br /><br />HIMSmomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48512077971481524382013-10-25T19:17:20.573-07:002013-10-25T19:17:20.573-07:00Families also ought to know what's going to ha...Families also ought to know what's going to happen <b>before</b> open enrollment.<br /><br />Some concern was expressed at the JAK-8 meeting last night about how many middle school families would choose to go to JAMS instead of with JAK-8 to Marshall. I'm sure a few will, based on convenience to their neighborhood and Marshall being a less than ideal building in a less than ideal site. However, it seems equally possible that some Eckstein families might choose to go to JAK-8 at Marshall rather than be split off to a brand new school with unknown teachers.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16260807460417787614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-51098023690589324322013-10-25T17:58:00.124-07:002013-10-25T17:58:00.124-07:00There is and there isn't.
Enrollment needs to...There is and there isn't.<br /><br />Enrollment needs to plan where all those kids will go. They will be revamping schools/tiebreakers/etc. A big lift.<br /><br />But, other things can happen. Double-shifts, more portables (and I have news on that front from the district archives - this is NOT the portable high point for this district).<br /><br />I don't think it's kicking the can down the road - it's getting a system with many moving parts in the best position for NOW and in the future.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65804111268509482512013-10-25T16:55:36.636-07:002013-10-25T16:55:36.636-07:00If the process stretches out until late January in...If the process stretches out until late January instead of a board vote in November 20, is there a downside? Are there things that must be done in December/January that depend on the boundaries being set? I'm trying to understand why the timeline for such a major change has been so rushed. <br /><br />ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5291626044614554422013-10-25T16:46:00.997-07:002013-10-25T16:46:00.997-07:00Playing Devil's Advocate: The staff is genera...Playing Devil's Advocate: The staff is generally bad at long range planning. They particularly have tended to defer painful decisions until they become an emergency. So I think its actually quite valuable to debate the long term plan right now. Let's actually plan for once and give everyone a roadmap to work against. What I don't think has been that great so far is the actual planning process. This is where I think the PTSA letter is valuable. By all means let's have the conversation right now. But let's see the reasoning behind the changes and spend the next few months getting it right. The worst thing to do would be to kick the can down the road and then repeat the current cycle again in the next inevitable emergency.<br />BenBenjamin Leishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10974191081762367425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38638252267565335222013-10-25T16:32:58.773-07:002013-10-25T16:32:58.773-07:00Slow Down, this is very much the conversation last...Slow Down, this is very much the conversation last Saturday at Director Martin-Morris' meeting. <br /><br />They were talking about historic high school boundary lines (like NE 80th or 85th) rather than random=looking boundaries. It seems to be the same for middle school.<br /><br />Yes, I believe this rush will not play out well and hitting the pause button could show other options that give time for the most input and best planning.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52049679801441202372013-10-25T15:31:18.072-07:002013-10-25T15:31:18.072-07:00I like the SCPTSA letter. I agree that this proce...I like the SCPTSA letter. I agree that this process is too rushed, and unnecessarily so. It seems like there is broad consensus about that, whether your attendance area school is Maple or North Beach. It seems like staff is propelling most everyone into unnecessary chaos, and badly mangling walkability and community cohesion in the process. And what's worse, is where's the net gain? What's driving all of this?? It just seems WAY too premature. <br /><br />JAMS is a case in point. That school is the comprehensive middle school implementation that goes first. There is a lot at stake. It should be done right. Does anyone think starting it with 2 k5s, OlympIc Hills and John Rogers, makes sense? Really? Given the long list of K5s and k8s that feed and will continue to feed to Eckstein? That then leads into a conversation about which k5s should feed to JAMS, but because of the long skinny attendance areas, it gets to be crazy-making. Which is why JAMS should be more like Nathan Hale, and be fed with a territory, perhaps with 90th being the line or 85th, whatever the numbers say would balance it out. That would start it up with its community of neighbours, who will then feed to Hale together. That would make sense. K5 boundary adjustments in the NE wouldn't be so loaded and difficult. It would keep neighborhoods together and respect walkability. That's what should be done to solve the problem and establish JAMS as the north NE school, community buy-in will happen when the Principal gets out in front of the community and starts sharing her vision and highlighting a strong teaching group. JAMS deserves nothing less. Meany will then follow, as will WP.<br /><br />And what's proposed in the south/south east is whacky. The crazy train needs to stop. A lot of bad planning centers on what is proposed for Dearborne, but the pulls to and from Mercer are equally nutty. Leave Hawthorn alone! Stop messing with Beacon Hill. And the list goes on.<br /><br />Which is why I like the SCPTSA letter. I say: STOP! Stop before permanent damage is done. Before you break it, and make it unfixable. World school to TT Minor? Really? They will just have to move again in 4 years. Kind of like their pals at NOVA, who left Mann and now are going back to Mann. I worry for World School. <br /><br />So stop. Just do what must be done this year, like an adjustment between Hay and Lowell, Like starting JAMS, and whatever else is an obvious fix or need, and leave the rest. Because the plan is too rushed and doesn't make sense.<br /><br />-SLOW DOWNAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29860454851410941502013-10-25T15:21:09.143-07:002013-10-25T15:21:09.143-07:00Katherine is one of the most competent people I kn...Katherine is one of the most competent people I know. I expect great things from the SCPTA this year.TechyMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04650916001250022778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57708974459187732442013-10-25T13:22:36.715-07:002013-10-25T13:22:36.715-07:00Sleeper, you may be onto something with that "...Sleeper, you may be onto something with that "sleeper" wave of kids that may show up at JAMS. <br /><br />The only way JAMS will succeed in with buy-in and yes, some willingness to step up and create that school community. If it had been me during this time, I would have put one or both sons into JAMS. Eckstein, a great school, also has a very distinct personality and if you are not part of the "in" crowd - either as a student or parent - it's not always great. I would love to be on the ground floor to create something great.<br /><br />NE Unpopular, you may be speaking of some particular PTAS but the Seattle Council PTSA was made up of people from all over the district. That said, they seemed more interested in state advocacy than helping advocate for district issues. I welcome this firm and clear voice from SCPTA.<br /><br />One fun fact from my recent visit to the district archives, we used to call them junior highs (that's what I grew up with).Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9894040282640066022013-10-25T13:04:36.915-07:002013-10-25T13:04:36.915-07:00I agree that it is hard to move schools once you&#...I agree that it is hard to move schools once you've started, and for that reason I used to be for roll ups, just to avoid that pain, and because I know they work at the elementary level. But after talking to staff about how small the budget is and how weak the schedules, classes, community, after school activities, and community are for those 6th graders, I do think a geo split is less painful overall. I hear about a lot of alienation at Eckstein from NNE families, though. But perhaps that is just because they are happy about getting a new middle school closer to them. Not because they have the extremely unusual 6th grader who wants to move schools!<br /><br />I googled and did not come up with a lot about how other districts usually start middle schools. Do any of you know? I know of one district in VA that recently started one, and it was a geo split. They geo split new elementaries, too, though, no grandfathering. No community engagement process, they just did it. Makes sps look like softies.<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4477254804886187252013-10-25T13:01:00.972-07:002013-10-25T13:01:00.972-07:00The guiding principles of the growth boundaries in...The guiding principles of the growth boundaries include <i>maximize walkability, minimize disruptions, and be mindful of fiscal impacts</i>. Drawing Wedgwood into JAMS would not be consistent with those principles. Another guiding principal is <i>create diversity within boundaries</i>, which you suggest would be the reason (the sole reason) to draw Wedgwood into JAMS.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8796082852407462162013-10-25T12:48:19.718-07:002013-10-25T12:48:19.718-07:00@ sleeper
I agree with most of what you've po...@ sleeper<br /><br />I agree with most of what you've posted. However, I bet that "those kids" who are currently at Eckstein do feel like they are part of Eckstein, and a split, if it happens next year, will be painful.<br /><br />- North-end MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17073752921438468382013-10-25T12:47:49.045-07:002013-10-25T12:47:49.045-07:00NE Unpopular, that was my impression at Director M...NE Unpopular, that was my impression at Director Martin-Morris's chat the one time I went. Several people wanted to talk to him and for the first half hour he went around politely to each person answering questions or listening to concerns. He didn't get to me, but I figured fine, I'll get my turn.<br /><br />Then, mystery woman appeared. District insiders probably know her face, but she was not introduced and I never found out who she was. For the entire rest of the "chat", she and M-M tuned out the rest of the group while she brought out charts and maps and told him all about what she thought. Everybody else ceased to exist as far as M-M and mystery woman were concerned. I don't know why they bothered taking up a table at the coffee shop, they could have sat in one of their living rooms for all the public engagement that went on.Patrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16260807460417787614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57900292328701292882013-10-25T12:31:39.514-07:002013-10-25T12:31:39.514-07:00I think "those kids" do not currently fe...I think "those kids" do not currently feel they are much a part of Eckstein, which is why they are so happy to finally have a neighborhood middle school, and want it to be a success. I don't think anybody wants other families to just do the heavy lifting, but rather wants the neighborhood program to be truly diverse. Putting a program in alongside it with lower FRL numbers does not actually make the neighborhood program diverse. Yes, spectrum is less self contained than APP, so there would certainly be more mixing, and there are also more students in the NNE who access that program. And why NOT just put Wedgwood in? Draw the southern boundaries a bit north. We can quibble over precisely how many classes each Wedgwood student will take with Olympic Hills students, but the fact is it's definitely more, the demographics would be an immense improvement, there would be a larger neighborhood community, Wedgwood kids would still get a less crowded, excellent neighborhood school, and JAMS would be better.<br /><br />There are several potential scenarios in which some or all of my kids ends up at JAMS, depending on the proposals, and the whole time I've disliked the inequity between Eckstein and JAMS neighborhood programs if APP gets housed in JAMS. Last year I assumed we'd get drawn into JAMS, and I am stunned at how far north the Eckstein boundaries go. Because of where it is located geographically, the JAMS neighborhood program is necessarily going to be somewhat poorer than Eckstein, but I want it to have the best possible start. The first thing, to me, is to draw a solid community of neighbors together, and that means more feeder schools. Not setting it up to fail. I think that if they keep the neighborhood program this poor, middle class families will try to get away from it, instead of seeking out what could be a great, diverse experience, with some tweaking. I think this is happening at Sand Point elementary right now, and wish it seemed like they were working on that with the new boundaries.<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69969935756378780572013-10-25T12:15:19.223-07:002013-10-25T12:15:19.223-07:00Ouch! Nailed it NE unpopular. Can cross the lette...Ouch! Nailed it NE unpopular. Can cross the letter off the to do list. <br />-unhallowAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22141032447883127942013-10-25T12:12:44.144-07:002013-10-25T12:12:44.144-07:00I'm new to the SCPTSA. Avoided them like a pl...I'm new to the SCPTSA. Avoided them like a plague in the past. Too cozy with Enfield, some members of the board and the Alliance crowd. But this year (and this letter) shows me I might get along with the group.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.com