tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post2119961400294283371..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Wild Conjecture about Charter Schools as ALEsMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34361384208464303112015-12-08T17:45:06.467-08:002015-12-08T17:45:06.467-08:00@LisaG: Whoops - I see now how to select district...@LisaG: Whoops - I see now how to select districts, but do you know a source for demographic info? THanks again.MelissaPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68090140866335992042015-12-08T17:40:38.993-08:002015-12-08T17:40:38.993-08:00@LisaG: Thanks for responding. Clarification: T...@LisaG: Thanks for responding. Clarification: The link is to statewide data (not SPS) and 61% for four year and two year institutions, correct? Or did you obtain SPS data from somewhere else? And is there any demographic info to go with that? Thanks....MelissaPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59190058382047731872015-12-08T14:37:19.055-08:002015-12-08T14:37:19.055-08:00erdcdata.wa.gov/hsfb.aspx
in 2013 SPS had (as a p...erdcdata.wa.gov/hsfb.aspx<br /><br />in 2013 SPS had (as a percentage of H.S. graduates) 74% enrolled in college, and it appears that 61% of those enrolled in college are in four year colleges.<br /><br />LisaGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34926865938417621412015-12-08T12:17:12.395-08:002015-12-08T12:17:12.395-08:00Question: Does anyone out there know what the fou...Question: Does anyone out there know what the four-year college acceptance rates are for SPS high schools are? I'd like to understand that next to Summit Public Schools 94%+ acceptance rate across their schools.<br /><br />Thanks for any constructive response.MelissaPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70267571223064467222015-12-08T11:28:24.728-08:002015-12-08T11:28:24.728-08:00@Lynn: 4 times each school year at Summit (all Sum...@Lynn: 4 times each school year at Summit (all Summit Schools), regular instruction switches to two weeks of "Expeditions." Each student chooses two topics from an array that they then study in depth over the 8 total weeks. The expeditions are taught by adjuncts and the teaching staff spends the two weeks in professional development sessions. This week began two weeks of expeditions. I can't remember all of the expedition choices, but there are classes on computer coding, effective public speaking, genocide in the 20th century, digital storytelling and the politics and dynamics of civic engagement. These expeditions were a selling point for my daughter choosing Summit and so far it seems so good.<br /><br />@Melissa W: I was referring to what I perceive is the assumption of some posters to this blog that Charter parents are upset that they were not informed of the pending court case and its potential impact. As I said, none of the Charter parents I know are in actuality upset about this. I'm interested though if some are upset and will keep my ears open on that issue.Cheezmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02626193124555473741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49079540041882941692015-12-08T10:56:56.068-08:002015-12-08T10:56:56.068-08:00"When people call the Timing of the Supreme C..."When people call the Timing of the Supreme Court decision callous"<br /><br />The Supreme Court has a lengthy and specific process for making decisions. We can't expect the Supreme Court to alter their process/ schedule for every group that decides to rally in Olympia. Good grief.(!!)<br /><br />Watchingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47548813980553195132015-12-08T09:05:52.836-08:002015-12-08T09:05:52.836-08:00I (sadly) agree with Brooklyn Bridge - I don't...I (sadly) agree with Brooklyn Bridge - I don't want to see my kid used as a pawn in this chess match, but hey, if it's ok with you then that's your choice. <br /><br />SWWS makes a good point. The operators, however effective/ineffective their educational product might be, should have been more prudent in insuring that all legal issues were resolved before jumping into fully operating. I doubt any of them were not aware of the risks - it was pure hubris to assume all would be well.<br /><br />And now Mr. Dorn appears to be bending over backwards to accommodate this whole mess. What a cluster<br /><br />reader47Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33219528191498433362015-12-08T08:58:24.974-08:002015-12-08T08:58:24.974-08:00Cheezman, I don't know what you mean by "...Cheezman, I don't know what you mean by "outrage." You mean outrage at the outcome? Or outrage because their own schools didn't have the good grace to warn them that this could come to their schools? <br /><br />I think the families can be upset for a lot of reasons but the blame should be shared equally. <br /><br /><br />Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27528545917594091462015-12-08T07:41:20.957-08:002015-12-08T07:41:20.957-08:00When people call the Timing of the Supreme Court d...When people call the Timing of the Supreme Court decision callous, it smacks of the hubris of the charters operators that created this mess. Not only did they know the law was under review, they knew it had been found UNCONSTITUTIONAL at the King a County Court level. That they charged ahead abd opened dispite knowing that the law had been found unconstitutional in THIS state was callous. I get maybe taking the risk and going forward if the law had initially been upheld (it still would have been a risk and something families warned about) , but when the law was overturned right out of the gate, it was callous abd cruel to move forward. I think it was deliberate to ensure that there were kids and families that could be used as essential hostages for the shenanigans that are going on now. <br /><br />-SWWSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33863776354892950812015-12-08T01:18:30.224-08:002015-12-08T01:18:30.224-08:00Cheezman,
I have a question about Summit Sierra. ...Cheezman,<br /><br />I have a question about Summit Sierra. Is it true that students aren't receiving any instruction from their certificated teachers this month? How does that affect your daughter's progress in the second language she's studying? I'd think four week without instruction in most subjects would be a concern. (I also expect this wouldn't fly with OSPI in an ALE.)Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28707151664795539322015-12-07T23:05:01.574-08:002015-12-07T23:05:01.574-08:00I like transparency and stability, and I don't...I like transparency and stability, and I don't like my children being used as pawns. That's me, though. C'est la vie. No need to get back. Happy trails.Brooklyn Bridgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-56622494100653649632015-12-07T21:53:10.726-08:002015-12-07T21:53:10.726-08:00The paragraph that mentions "profit" is ...The paragraph that mentions "profit" is brilliant? Where does profit come in wrt Washington Charters under the statutory scheme? <br /><br />I know some of y'all insist on believing that there's all kinds of outrage among charter parents over the legal situation. Whereas you assume and offer no evidence, I can at least tell you that none of the several families I know are at all angry at charters. Just the opposite. But I will be meeting many more families at an event next week and I will poll every one of them on the issue and report back here. Cheezmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02626193124555473741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39223634863565383662015-12-07T21:27:03.443-08:002015-12-07T21:27:03.443-08:00Reader, I may use - with credit (such that it is) ...Reader, I may use - with credit (such that it is) - that last paragraph. Brilliant.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87536126498890348722015-12-07T20:48:21.641-08:002015-12-07T20:48:21.641-08:00For me one of the saddest thing about this back an...For me one of the saddest thing about this back and forth debate is lost opportunity. Charters came in and successfully fill in the big hole where public schools failed. The meanest and worst SPS schools are nothing like the ones I saw in Detroit in the late 90's and Anacostia in the 80's. The schools were just bad. They were often violent places and falling apart with transitory staff. I toured several of these Detroit schools. Parents were looking for anything which was different than what they had. Charter operators saw their opportunity and took it. Public schools really lost an opportunity here. I'm not sure what happened. It looked like the adults just gave up. The state and city seemed to have lost control of city services and much of the city was a haunting, dead zone. <br /><br />Detroit schools is still a mess, but with more school choices. That is part of the problem. Too many so-so to poor choices. Not enough quality seats. Children can go to traditional public schools, charters, and ones controlled by the state educational authority. Quality education though remains an elusive beast regardless of which type of schools a child's in. The only positive is the acknowledgement by the adults that for Detroit to make a permanent comeback, education has to be a top priority to draw back families and industry to rebuild this once fair city. I suspect at some point, state legislators will have to wrestle and tighten the rules on charters and find a way to weed out bad operators and find ways to draw and retain better public school teachers and fix the public schools. <br /><br />In situation like these, what I see is an attempt to try anything and everything with the hope something will stick. Parents are left to figure out this complicated tangle. It's a terrible system. You know charter started off with the hope that innovation by the best public school teachers will turn failing schools around. Somehow along the way, market force stole that ideal. Profit masked by good marketing. It's an American tragedy.<br /><br />reader<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57546796121875614162015-12-07T19:24:42.607-08:002015-12-07T19:24:42.607-08:00I know it wasn't Seattle Schools or we would h...I know it wasn't Seattle Schools or we would have heard about it. That's a very sad story.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6972642999553008512015-12-07T18:47:48.528-08:002015-12-07T18:47:48.528-08:00S parent @6:19 said "If a child misbehaves, t...S parent @6:19 said "If a child misbehaves, they can be counseled out to a public school."<br /><br />A child can also be "counseled out" of a district public school<br /><br />One of my children was suspended about 40 times from a district public school when he was in kindergarten! We finally took him out to homeschool him.<br /><br />LisaGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75418050336983746342015-12-07T18:29:05.117-08:002015-12-07T18:29:05.117-08:00Charlie Mas @ 5:09
Which CREDO study? There'...Charlie Mas @ 5:09 <br /><br />Which CREDO study? There's a recent one that looks at 41 "urban regions".<br />https://urbancharters.stanford.edu/download/Urban%20Charter%20School%20Study%20Report%20on%2041%20Regions.pdf <br /><br />It shows in math: 43% of charter schools better, 33% the same, 24% worse.<br />in reading: 38% of better, 46% the same, 16% worse.<br /><br />(Apparently on-line charter schools do much worse than other charter schools.)<br /><br />Charlie also said "There is nothing - nothing - that a charter school can do for students that a public school cannot do."<br /><br />I strongly agree. The answer is why aren't more traditional public schools doing some of the things that high performing charter schools do?<br />I guess an obvious answer is the public schools aren't getting enough money. But then why do some schools in the same district get very different results? Are they getting different amounts of money?<br /><br />LisaGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79541970216954146032015-12-07T18:26:27.378-08:002015-12-07T18:26:27.378-08:00@ Cheezman
You shouldn't get too involved wi...@ Cheezman <br /><br />You shouldn't get too involved with the admins on this blog, they don't have any children in schools, public, charter or private. They just complain endlessly and like to squash anyone's joy in escaping from the traditional public school asylum. <br /><br />As for Charlie, he doesn't even live on the west coast and Westbrook should be a lobbyist for SEA. <br /><br />You know teacher unions hate charters because success is contagious. <br /><br />FRL nauseam <br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47032634535284133502015-12-07T18:19:52.962-08:002015-12-07T18:19:52.962-08:00Listen closely, the charters don’t have to play by...Listen closely, the charters don’t have to play by the same rules as public ones. If a child misbehaves, they can be counseled out to a public school. No teacher unions may work for awhile, but young teachers will eventually get tired of working for little pay and no benefits. <br /><br />SPS is a top heavy central administration, but charters being run by a Spokane district sound even worse. It is a dishonest dodge.<br /><br />S parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33004168273085955242015-12-07T18:02:54.210-08:002015-12-07T18:02:54.210-08:00I do believe there's data showing students who...I do believe there's data showing students who struggled in a traditional public school, did perform better once enrolled in a public charter school.<br /><br />I think that's the point pro public charters school supporters are trying to get across. <br /><br />For me, I don't care if there's a placebo effect, all that matters is the child's fresh academic start and the parents diminished frustration with central administration.<br /><br />Public charter schools have more flexibility to serve under performing students without the constraints placed on schools by central administration or teachers unions. I wish our traditional public schools had the same level of flexibility. <br /><br />Listen closely Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66033301215457472752015-12-07T17:49:21.952-08:002015-12-07T17:49:21.952-08:00I'll go so far as to say that children in char...I'll go so far as to say that children in charter schools are being used. Brooklyn Bridgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33866564172622021052015-12-07T17:47:13.608-08:002015-12-07T17:47:13.608-08:00"Regarding knowledge of the pending legal act...<br /><br />"Regarding knowledge of the pending legal action: The pending case was not brought up to anyone in our family and I haven't heard of any instance where any of the Summit people discussed it with other prospective students' families"<br /><br />I am having a hard time believing that families aren't outraged. These charter schools have created an unstable situation for many families. Frankly, I don't know why families would want to subject their children to unstable conditions. Hold on tight....It is going to be a rough ride and I predict corruption along the way.<br /><br />Good luck!Brooklyn Bridgenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70747077372731211312015-12-07T17:32:51.986-08:002015-12-07T17:32:51.986-08:00This is backing up about 30 posts, but ... Charlie...This is backing up about 30 posts, but ... Charlie ...<br /><br />You wrote:<br />"Here's the best part - they never have to subject any of their own children to these schools. The district responsible for this scheme is all the way across the state from the students in the schools. They can say that these schools are good for poor students of color without ever having to answer or be accountable to those students' families because they don't live or vote in that district."<br />That's a fairly clear insinuation that these schools are harming students' families to whom the are allegedly not accountable.<br /><br />You wrote:<br />"Could you also provide the supporting evidence for your assertion that "The mission of public schools is to nullify the wishes of family in favor of social engineering schemes that squander the potential of many students."<br />My supporting evidence is:<br />1) direct personal experience of being stonewalled and ignored<br />2) reading the comments on every AL thread ever posted here<br />3) observing that families will choose mediocre charter schools to escape dysfunctional public schools<br />4) simply observing how "inclusive" and and "equitable" public schools actually function<br /><br />I think it's you who needs to be more reality-based, and get out of the PC fantasy echo chamber. <br /><br />Outsidernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83604702688894567022015-12-07T17:14:28.179-08:002015-12-07T17:14:28.179-08:00Cheezman, uh, charters have been around for over 2...Cheezman, uh, charters have been around for over 20 years and haven't proven themselves better? That experiment seems to have made its statement. Of course, it isn't over but it would have been good to create a constitutional law. (Again, the Court didn't decide ALL the issues in the lawsuit. Keep that in mind for the future. It would be far better for the legislature to create a new (constitutional) law than to keep support this poorly-written initiative.<br /><br />S parent,you don't seem to be reading the threads. The money is coming from us. I'll write a new thread with all the dots connected. It's not pretty.<br /><br />I will say that I think Charlie is being pretty gracious here. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19882322623598222742015-12-07T17:09:24.987-08:002015-12-07T17:09:24.987-08:00Cheezman, I would direct your attention to the CRE...Cheezman, I would direct your attention to the CREDO study, which is more of a survey of the most reliable studies. It showed that about three of six charter school students did about as well as their peers in public schools, that one of six charter school students did better than their public school peers, and that two of six charter school students did worse than their public school peers. In short, for five out of six students the charter meant no improvement and that students were twice as likely to worse than to do better.<br /><br />There's an excellent reason why charter schools, on the whole, are not effective for students. It's because the difference between charter schools and public schools is only in the ownership and the governance of the school. It's a change in the boardroom. For it to make a difference for students the change has to come in the classroom.<br /><br />While you would think that charters are more likely to innovate the truth is that the bulk of charter schools use the same instructional strategies that are used in traditional public schools. You may believe that charters have some special license to innovate, but public schools - as everyone in Seattle knows - have just as much license to innovate. There is nothing - nothing - that a charter school can do for students that a public school cannot do.<br /><br />That's why charter schools are a distraction and a waste of time, political capital, energy, and resources. The barriers to children's education are not in the boardroom and we aren't going to overcome them there.<br /><br />Here in Seattle we have schools with Montessori programs, language immersion programs, arts-based curricula, international focused curricula, advanced learning programs, project-based learning, STEM programs, experiential learning and more. Besides those structures, the simple fact is that teachers innovate every single day. They have to because every students is different and needs something different.<br /><br />I have had a number of conversations with Charter school advocates and I will tell you plainly that I don't care if a school is a public school, a charter school, a private school, or any other possible ownership and governance structure. That doesn't drive the quality of the school or the quality of the academic opportunity, and that is what I care about. I care about the students' experience.<br /><br />You say that your daughter's charter school is providing her and her classmates with a great experience. That's wonderful, but it didn't take a charter school to make that happen. It took the school community. A community which could have just as easily come together in a public school. And public schools are constitutional and at least partially funded by the state.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.com