tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post2279247112300578763..comments2024-03-29T02:41:52.718-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: March 14th School Board meetingMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-59267377751032547292009-03-21T14:31:00.000-07:002009-03-21T14:31:00.000-07:00I'm wondering how accurate are the Transportation ...I'm wondering how accurate are the Transportation savings projected in this change to bus/bell times?<BR/><BR/>Some transportation savings were incorporated into the Closure Plan... see this PDF of Appendix F to the Capacity Management (Closure) Plan:<BR/><BR/>http://www.seattleschools.org/area/capacity/appendix_f.pdf<BR/><BR/>It states Summit/AS#1 busing costs almost half a million dollars/year and the capacity management plan closed Summit and cut AS#1's busing to only serve the N and NE clusters....<BR/><BR/>Is the District counting the same figures twice in its calculations? Are those transportation savings - almost a quarter of the $2.2M they say they are saving with these new measures - really coming from the earlier closure plan?Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42779378464869464142009-03-20T20:15:00.000-07:002009-03-20T20:15:00.000-07:00Yeah. I'm sure the Ballard High area residents wh...Yeah. I'm sure the Ballard High area residents who brought the original suit, including QA-Magnolia with no high school at all, will be equally thrilled to get bumped for socio-economic reasons.AutismMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11733034472823241389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71930176032855439892009-03-20T19:35:00.000-07:002009-03-20T19:35:00.000-07:00What the talk is now is using socio-economic as a ...What the talk is now is using socio-economic as a "diversity" tiebreaker. Whether it will ever be used in SPS is another question.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63801763609077224522009-03-20T18:32:00.000-07:002009-03-20T18:32:00.000-07:00For popular schools with large waitlists like Ball...<I>For popular schools with large waitlists like Ballard, for every minority kid that got in using the "integration" tie breaker, a neighborhood kid was pushed out. </I><BR/><BR/>You could argue that busing students from the S and SE, especially in times of financial crisis, is really meant to "racially integrate" Addams, Hamilton, and McClure. <BR/><BR/>That practice denies that same opportunity to attend Addams, Hamilton and McClure to people who don't live in the S and SE... and live in areas with less racial diversity. It also wastes money on busing that could be used for other services. Therefore, this "integration positive" busing initiative... denies other people services (because of the money spent busing instead of services), and it denies people actual attendance at Addams, McClure and Hamilton (because lots of people can't attend if there's no bus).<BR/><BR/>I don't really agree with the Supreme Court's decision, although I don't have a strong opinion. But given that it went the way it did, it would seem that "integration positive" busing or anything that has the same intent, would also be contrary to the decision if it were ever challenged.AutismMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11733034472823241389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80090579953682972872009-03-20T08:07:00.000-07:002009-03-20T08:07:00.000-07:00Does anyone know if transportation is double count...Does anyone know if transportation is double counting the savings from eliminating all city transportation for AAA, AS#1, and Summit? Those savings were factored into the closure plan and were supposed to help account for the $3.6 million in savings there. I worry that the transportation department is double counting those savings in this new package.Megan Mchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08526624057081098551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41407764289125857772009-03-19T22:49:00.000-07:002009-03-19T22:49:00.000-07:00Thanks for clarifying Charlie. I had no idea the b...Thanks for clarifying Charlie. I had no idea the buses dead head to Interbay between routes. My sons bus had two back to back routes. It had a middle school route and then immediately started the Salmon Bay route. I had no idea that some/most buses deadhead in between routes. In this case, of course, there would be great savings both in our carbon print and in the budget.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13505740148386089592009-03-19T22:41:00.000-07:002009-03-19T22:41:00.000-07:00The environmental savings comes from shortening de...The environmental savings comes from shortening deadhead trips and reducing the number of deadhead trips to and from the bus base in Interbay.<BR/><BR/>A bus running a single route runs empty to the start of the route, runs the route, and then runs empty back to the base at the end of the route - twice a day.<BR/><BR/>A bus running two routes runs empty to the start of the first route, then runs empty to the start of the second route - a location close to the end of the first route, then runs the second route and finally runs empty back to the base - twice a day.<BR/><BR/>A really surprising number of students get out-of-cluster or out-of-region yellow bus transportation. The two largest contributors to these long trips are 1) Special education students bussed to programs outside their cluster and 2) Alternative schools with multi-cluster draws.<BR/><BR/>The out-of-cluster trips for Special Education students should be reduced as the District transitions from programs to services and starts placing students with IEPs closer to home.<BR/><BR/>We have already seen some reduction of reference area for alternative schools and we will probably see them shrink more.<BR/><BR/>A third contributor, of course, is the yellow bus transportation provided to southeast region middle school students to McClure and Hamilton. The trips to Hamilton will be severely diminished, if not end completely, when Hamilton fills up with north-end students. I'm not sure of the future of the yellow bus transportation to McClure. It could end if Queen Anne and Magnolia families start to choose McClure in higher numbers. Or it could end just to save the District money. Or it could end if the District ever decides to declare the Southeast Initiative a success and end this transportation opportunity which is nothing but an acknowledgement by the District that the Southeast Region middle schools, Mercer and Aki Kurose, are not very good.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52486855826468586482009-03-19T21:40:00.000-07:002009-03-19T21:40:00.000-07:00And, I thought the exact same thing as Stu. When I...And, I thought the exact same thing as Stu. When I heard Harium mention that this was so much better for our carbon print, emissions, etc., I scratched my head in disbelief.<BR/><BR/>How?<BR/><BR/>How is it saving anything?<BR/><BR/>Whether you use one or two buses, you use the same amount of gas, drive the same amount of miles, serve the same amount of kids, etc.<BR/><BR/>The only benefit is that they can retain drivers longer if the provide them more hours.<BR/><BR/>I'm baffled.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31085362373472573242009-03-19T21:36:00.000-07:002009-03-19T21:36:00.000-07:00It's really not splitting hairs autismom. The laws...It's really not splitting hairs autismom. The lawsuit came up because kids of color had an integration tie breaker and were being assigned to schools outside of their neighborhoods BEFORE kids that lived in the neighborhoods were assigned. For popular schools with large waitlists like Ballard, for every minority kid that got in using the "integration" tie breaker, a neighborhood kid was pushed out. The lawsuit ruling was that minority kids couldn't have that advantage anymore. <BR/><BR/>Minority kids can still apply for certain schools outside of their neighborhoods with transportation provided but they do not get the "integration" tie breaker. This means that they can't get into those popular schools anymore, as they fill with the neighborhood kids that live closest to the buildings. The schools they have access to with transportation are the schools that have excess space to accomodate them. <BR/><BR/>I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with the lawsuit, with integration positive, or anything else, I'm just saying that it's not splitting hairs at all.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-44362421402256392362009-03-19T21:20:00.000-07:002009-03-19T21:20:00.000-07:00Gee. The continuance of busing from the south end...Gee. The continuance of busing from the south end to McClure, Hamilton and elsewhere really is ridiculous if we're trying to save busing costs and move back to neighborhood schools. I seriously doubt that the integration positive busing thing has been challenged in court. And clearly, busing from the south end to the white(r) neighborhoods has exactly 1 intent, racial balance. True... it isn't really, exactly the same as "integration positive" school assignment.... but it smells pretty similar, splitting hairs.AutismMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11733034472823241389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42262196826364159512009-03-19T17:58:00.000-07:002009-03-19T17:58:00.000-07:00Although I seriously doubt they can get 49 buses o...Although I seriously doubt they can get 49 buses off the road, in terms of gas and carbon footprint, it doesn't really matter how many buses service the routes. Whether two buses service an area or one bus services it twice, it's the same amount of driving, the same amount of gas, the same carbon footprint. The only difference is they can offer the driver a longer shift.<BR/>The board was so excited by the whole "green" aspect and were basically duped! There's nothing inherently "green" about this proposal unless they cut out transportation for some students...which has nothing to do with start times. (Changing to the community stops would be the same savings regardless of start times too.)<BR/><BR/>You just know that transportation must have been thrilled to see this pushed through quickly. They must know by now that the board rarely probes beneath the surface. They dazzled them with the "49 buses" thing and that was just enough.<BR/><BR/>So. Who wants to bet they'll forget to study it next year 'cause of time constraints?<BR/><BR/>stuStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769983958729170219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-9593884651682781852009-03-19T17:44:00.000-07:002009-03-19T17:44:00.000-07:00Hmmm, I was only thinking in terms of middle schoo...Hmmm, I was only thinking in terms of middle school as that is where my mind is at lately. However thinking in terms of elementary school students if the district cuts integration positive transportation it will affect many children. Check out the transportation section in the elementary guide.<BR/><BR/>Could this be part of the 49 bus figure?anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72656959337456260332009-03-19T17:33:00.000-07:002009-03-19T17:33:00.000-07:00Sahila, it is a bit confusing. I think, and I migh...Sahila, it is a bit confusing. I think, and I might be wrong (someone please correct me if I am) that the district can no longer use "integration positive" as a tie breaker for enrollment to school - as they did pre the 2006 ruling. In other words a student would not have an advantage to get assignment to a school based on their race.<BR/><BR/>Transportation is different than enrollment. While the ruling specified that the district can't use "integration positive" for assignment, it did not specify that they couldn't use it for other services. I can't imagine that there are many NE/NW families that are sending their kids to AKI and Mercer for middle school. My guess is you could count them on one hand. So if they are cutting this particular transportation service, I can't imaging it will affect many students at all.<BR/><BR/>BTW there are many of these integration positive transportation offerings in elementary for instance kids living in the SE cluster can get a bus to Adams, BF Day or Greenlake. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps AS1 could ask to be an integration positive school?anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63554056986490271872009-03-19T17:19:00.000-07:002009-03-19T17:19:00.000-07:00Sahila,The Supreme Court case was about school ass...Sahila,<BR/><BR/>The Supreme Court case was about school assignments and a racial tie-breaker used to balance out (or try to) the populations of Seattle schools. The case concerned only high school assignments (if you were of a minority population in either direction, you could be assigned to a school with a small number of that population in case of over-enrollment).<BR/><BR/>While the case was being decided, the district stopped using this tie-breaker for all schools, and does not use it any longer at any grade.<BR/><BR/>Providing or not providing bus service (this was NOT NOT NOT in anyway forced busing), was not part of the suit, as far as I know. As with any school choices, some kids got bus service, some did not, depending on clusters and all the other factors the district uses.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure someone either has or will try to sue over this component of bus service any day now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25870551813580982552009-03-19T17:00:00.000-07:002009-03-19T17:00:00.000-07:00I'm a little confused... I had a very short conver...I'm a little confused... I had a very short conversation with a teacher at AS#1 about integration positive busing, but being new to the US and Seattle, didnt understand its relevance/context...<BR/><BR/>So I 'googled' it and found out what it was, as well as the Supreme Court's 2006(?) ruling that it was not legal for SPS to use 'integration positive' as a mechanism for assigning kids to schools...<BR/><BR/>So far, havent come across anything else showing that ruling was overturned...<BR/><BR/>So, if its not legal, why is it happening still and on into 2009/10 and why is it an element of busing/transportation costs???? <BR/><BR/>If I've got this wrong, would love someone to explain it to me....Sahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22479531817630302412009-03-19T16:42:00.000-07:002009-03-19T16:42:00.000-07:00OK so here are the transportation exceptions print...OK so here are the transportation exceptions printed in the 2009/10 secondary enrollment guide.<BR/><BR/>• Students in the BEACON HILL, KIMBALL, and JOHN MUIR reference areas receive transportation to MERCER if assigned – no assignment priority.<BR/>• APP students receive transportation to HAMILTON from the North, Northeast, Northwest and Queen Anne/Magnolia Elementary Clusters; and<BR/>transportation to WASHINGTON from the Central, South, Southeast, West Seattle North and West Seattle South Elementary Clusters. See page 18<BR/>for more information about tiebreakers for APP and Spectrum students.<BR/>• Students in the Southeast Middle School Region receive transportation to HAMILTON and MCCLURE if assigned – no assignment priority.<BR/>• Students in the Northeast and Northwest Middle School Regions receive transportation to AKI KUROSE and MERCER if integration positive. The<BR/>“integration tiebreaker” does not apply for assignments, but the designated out-of-region integration option is still valid for transportation purposes.<BR/>* Students must live in the reference area for Broadview-Thomson, Catharine Blaine, or Madrona to receive this assignment priority for grades 6-8.<BR/><BR/><BR/>So if I'm interpreting this right S/SE students do get transportation to McClure and Hamilton but it is not designated as "integration positive". All students who request this transportation get it, regardless of their race.<BR/><BR/>Students in the NE and NW get transportation to AKI and Mercer but only***IF***they are integration positive. <BR/><BR/>Note there is no integration positive stipulation noted for Hamilton or Mcclure.<BR/><BR/>So could the integration positive transportation being discontinued only be the NE/NW to Aki and Mercer?anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22327166382785396132009-03-19T16:27:00.000-07:002009-03-19T16:27:00.000-07:00Personally...I don't see how the District can make...Personally...I don't see how the District can make any claims about the number of buses needed until they see who applies for bus service next year and where they come from/go to. <BR/><BR/>Years back our elementary principal was concerned because many children who lived within walking distance were busing to other similar (and sometimes less successful) schools within the neighborhood. He made the conjecture that some families used the school bus as a free form of "before/after school child care."<BR/><BR/>That makes sense...you can put you kid on a bus at 8 am and head off to work for an 8:30 job, or you can walk your kid to school for an 8:45 drop-off and be late for work. Ditto for afternoons. If a family has financial issues, this could be a real lifesaver.<BR/><BR/>So...with that logic and the new start/end times, some people may switch schools solely based on when they can turn their child over to the care of the school district. <BR/><BR/>Until the enrollment period is over, I would think it will be difficult for the District to say exactly what the bus routes will be in Fall 2009.SolvayGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12709893209963350066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45422188042828883942009-03-19T16:08:00.000-07:002009-03-19T16:08:00.000-07:00Danny K and others where are you getting the infor...Danny K and others where are you getting the information that S/SE transportation to McClure and Hamilton is being discontinued? I saw the meeting last night, but don't remember this being addressed. Did I miss something? <BR/><BR/>The enrollment guide clearly shows that transportation WILL be provided from S/SE to Hamilton and McClure this year. Can the district change this so late in the game? I mean, many families have already applied and think they have transportation. <BR/><BR/>Does anyone have any credible, verifiable information about this, or is this all conjecture at this point?<BR/><BR/>Thanks.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26132727951153751392009-03-19T14:37:00.000-07:002009-03-19T14:37:00.000-07:00I'm getting weary of this practice of instituting ...I'm getting weary of this practice of instituting great big changes with minimal time for discussion -- in the middle of the enrollment period, no less. <BR/><BR/>It just seems like a disorganized process where power players (like SEA) can get heard but the public is largely frozen out. <BR/><BR/>I like the quote from today's story in the Times:<BR/><BR/>"Goodloe-Johnson said the adjustments reflected feedback from families, although she acknowledged the district didn't do a good job soliciting it."<BR/><BR/>It's beyond satire.Danny Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07632244455766365141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76172574083366522652009-03-19T14:22:00.000-07:002009-03-19T14:22:00.000-07:00Charlie said: "I am delighted by the savings, and ...Charlie said: "I am delighted by the savings, and getting 49 buses off the road (for all of the social and evironmental benefits), and I don't mind the change in the bus times so much."<BR/><BR/>I too would be happy to have a bunch of buses off the road, but have you seen any publicly available data that explains exactly how the district can lose 49 (!) buses with this plan? I'm not saying they can't, but isn't that more than 1 bus for every 2 schools? It seems unrealistic - OR there's something more than uniform start times afoot.<BR/><BR/>As Beth and Moose noted, it appears that integration positive transportation from S/SE to Hamilton and McClure will be gone. But the enrollment guide and principals don't know it yet. Is it NOT set to happen in 09-10? Someone needs to answer these questions, and very soon!<BR/><BR/>Here's another thing to consider. According Appendix H from the closure documents, there are about 260 kids bussing up to Hamilton from S/SE. Assuming (rough guessing, please correct me) 26 kids/bus, this alone could account for 10 of the 49 bus savings! And I just looked up McClure, there's another 130 kids there, so maybe 5 more buses. If this is accurate, almost 1/3 of the transportation savings could be due to changes that have nothing to do with start times at all!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26200589796447789512009-03-19T12:15:00.000-07:002009-03-19T12:15:00.000-07:00It seems the bell time issue was primarily focused...It seems the bell time issue was primarily focused on creating efficiencies in bus transportation, but what percent of total SPS students take the bus? I'm assuming that at least a large percentage of kids get dropped off by the parents (judging by my son's school), and for elementary schools, the later start time means a lot of parents being late for work. Or worse, parents who don't have any schedule flexibility with their work will have to find another option if the bus doesn't work for them. If you tallied the lost productivity of thousands of parents who are now arriving at work after 9:30 each morning, I'm betting it gets pretty close to the $2.2 million the district saves. Classic "shifting of the burden."<BR/><BR/>I guess it's not really the responsibility of the school to map to the working patterns of parents, but I wonder if this was taken into consideration at all? Anyone know how many students take the bus vs. find other transportation (car, walk, bike)? The Transportation portion of the SPS web site is devoid of useful information and what's there seems out of date (a lot of stuff from 2006-2007).<BR/><BR/>I think I'll go to the next board meeting. It was surreal watching it on television, and I'm sure it's more bizarre in person.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05105365816526108707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18964378001304872122009-03-19T12:10:00.000-07:002009-03-19T12:10:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05105365816526108707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15503994659940685642009-03-19T11:18:00.000-07:002009-03-19T11:18:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05105365816526108707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8539954012512906642009-03-19T11:05:00.000-07:002009-03-19T11:05:00.000-07:00Yes, Beth, I wanted to thank you too, for speaking...Yes, Beth, I wanted to thank you too, for speaking up for AS#1... I called out thank you when you were finished but didnt come to find you to thank you in person... apologies... and it was good to get a (fleeting) look at the person behind the name...<BR/>SahilaSahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23383621475006554852009-03-19T10:39:00.000-07:002009-03-19T10:39:00.000-07:00Thanks, to Beth for having AS#1's back and looking...Thanks, to Beth for having AS#1's back and looking out for all schools.<BR/><BR/>It seems like the K-8's might want to organize to have a separate school director. Having Ruth Medsger, who is really a middle school specialist, in charge of K-8's isn't working.<BR/><BR/>WV: aingst ( angst and against)Megan Mchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08526624057081098551noreply@blogger.com