tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post2316431376936889379..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Assignment Letters Mailed: So What's the Good Word?Melissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger143125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26885264080923217552009-05-27T11:21:30.763-07:002009-05-27T11:21:30.763-07:00on 5/27/09 at 10:49 AM Stu said...
Except that yo...on 5/27/09 at 10:49 AM Stu said...<br /><br /><I>Except that you're dealing with children here.</I>...<br /><br />I think Seattle's children deserve the best, as do its parents, teachers, and district employees. My bias is that I want to focus on the best achievable, practical solution. That solution should be informed by idealistic notions of perfection, but not expected to meet them from day one.<br /><br /><br />I don't think we should roll over and accept a bad assignment like this. My point is that this needs to be solved with policy decisions made and published ahead of time. That's an uncomfortable, political fact, but it is the most effective and prudent way to do it.<br /><br />Writing these policies happens to be a lot more difficult to specify than simply throwing terms like "common sense" and "unfair" around, which is, alas, at least 90% of what you'll hear on the subject from "concerned parents".<br /><br />I wish we were seeing more leadership from the Enrollment Department on this issue. I wish they were working to educate parents and the board about the sticky points of assignment algorithms and policies. That would allow for a much better understanding of where the deficiencies and failures of the new system will be.<br /><br />My best case scenario is not that the process works flawlessly. My best case is that every year or two only one new, unanticipated failure crops up, and the Enrollment Department, Superintendent, and Board work together, with input from parents, to specify and implement a fair solution by the next year.<br /><br />We know this hasn't happened in the past. The "twins issue" sat unaddressed for a long, long time. There's little excuse for the district's decision to ignore it. However, once the public pressure to solve it contained a substantial rational discourse component, a decent solution was implemented.Elizabeth Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04731168985909727486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70820808590305793182009-05-27T10:49:41.931-07:002009-05-27T10:49:41.931-07:00Except that you're dealing with children here. Put...Except that you're dealing with children here. Put aside the parents, the educators, the administrators, the board, the superintendent, the government . . . the effect these decisions are having on some of these kids is devastating<br /><br />I know that some people say that the kids are tough and we'll get through; that might be true but "they'll get through it" and "suck it up" shouldn't be policy, it should be the exception to the rule. There's safety in the familiar, especially for younger kids, and the friendships/bonds that are established at an early age help guide development. If you keep moving a child around, keep changing his building, teachers, friends, surroundings, what are you teaching him about responsibility, reliability, predictability, and just plain common sense and compassion?<br /><br />Rules ARE rules. However, once a child's in a school, that child should be allowed to stay. Once a family has committed to a program, that family should be able to keep their kids together. (Of course, that's assuming the building/program isn't drastically changed.)<br /><br />There are, obviously, specifics to every case . . . perhaps a form was filled out wrong, perhaps a first choice and second choice lined up for siblings differently. The overall principle remains the same; the kids need some stability and predictability and this district is offering neither.<br /><br />stuStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769983958729170219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29224526318794974692009-05-27T10:26:21.322-07:002009-05-27T10:26:21.322-07:00on 5/27/09 at 9:49 AM lak367 said...
I don't unde...on 5/27/09 at 9:49 AM lak367 said...<br /><br /><I>I don't understand why your oldest couldn't stay at Wedgwood once started there. Does that have something to do with moving to the area mid-year? That alone doesn't make sense.<br /></I>...<br /><br />I believe this can happen if you move into the school district after the class sizes for the next year have been set and the seats have been allocated.<br /><br />It may not make sense but it is a logical consequence of being over capacity coupled with the need to precisely specify who has enrollment priority over another.<br /><br />Most of us would say, "Well, obviously they should fix the problem by allowing one extra kid in the class." No enrollment director worth having would fiddle the arrangements thus without the explicit power to do so being included in the board-approved plan. To do otherwise is to risk charges of unfairness, whispers about graft, threatened lawsuits, and the loss of a job, not to mention lots of whining from the other parents because classes are too crowded.Elizabeth Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04731168985909727486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35346724431398801312009-05-27T09:49:22.097-07:002009-05-27T09:49:22.097-07:00Wendy, I think people have moved on to other threa...Wendy, I think people have moved on to other threads or else your note would be getting a lot more attention. <br /><br />This is one of the most outrageous stories that I've heard this year. First, though, I don't understand why your oldest couldn't stay at Wedgwood once started there. Does that have something to do with moving to the area mid-year? That alone doesn't make sense.<br /><br />And I thought they had a place on the forms now to indicate a preference for siblings to stay together. Last year, a set of twins was assigned to 2 different schools for Kindergarten, and there was much activism to make sure that siblings could be assigned together. I didn't think the fix just applied to twins but to all siblings. <br /><br />Definitely appeal. Call the board members who cover those schools. Perhaps even call the media and get your story in the paper. Make enough noise and they may eventually do something to ease the burden on everyone up here in the NE.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13293280824415307232009-05-26T09:47:45.093-07:002009-05-26T09:47:45.093-07:00We received our letter Thursday that our current 2...We received our letter Thursday that our current 2nd grader who attends John Rogers was assigned to Wedgwood. We received a letter on Saturday that our current Kindergarten student, also at Rogers is still at Rogers and 4th on Wedgwood wait list. We live .2 miles from Wedgwood. We moved here 13 months ago and our oldest finished her first grade year at Wedgwood, but was "kicked out" for 2nd grade. We are glad she is back, but upset her sister didn't get in. The principal said they are keeping all current students. 4- first and second grade classrooms. I thought she'd get in with those odds, but we have decided to appeal. I cannot be in 2 places at the same time. I have 2 younger children as well, and I pray I don't end up with 4 kids in 4 schools. I'm sure SPS would say that is unlikely, but they would never guarantee that either.WendyJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06113983936538420993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55398712138578319772009-05-26T07:58:42.099-07:002009-05-26T07:58:42.099-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.momsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589728845018669169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7443315898451676802009-05-26T07:58:16.722-07:002009-05-26T07:58:16.722-07:00melissa and stepj - when i said more 6th graders a...melissa and stepj - when i said more 6th graders at eckstein would mean more siblings to grandfather, i was talking about siblings not yet in the school (and was wrong - because no grandfathering, per se).<br /><br />melissa, you're probably right about no choice, per se, but won't they draw the boundary areas such that there will be some room for students outside the attendance area (yet also cognizant of future k-12 population projections), if only to comply with what is now in the draft as:<br /><br /> "The phased implementation plan will specify transition procedures so entry grade siblings and older siblings have the opportunity to be assigned to the same school if requested. This does not assure assignment of the entry grade sibling to the older sibling's current school."<br /><br />"if the parent/guardian indicates that the priority is to have the siblings attend the same school and space is not available at the older sibling's current school (or for both siblings at any of the other schools requested), the siblings will all be assigned to the new attendance area school."<br /><br />if there are a lot of kids currently in "out of reference area" schools, won't they have to do things that basically provide space for them in both schools? i.e., draw the boundaries wide enough so they could be assigned to their attendance area school, yet provide space in current school should they choose to be grandfathered?<br /><br />though the same draft also says, "Current students are not guaranteed assignment to their new attendance area school initially - the shift to automatic assignment to attendance area schools will be determined by the implementation plan".<br /><br />note - i went to the work session and did not hear anything about implementation - the section of the agenda that said "timeline and next steps" just referred to the intro and action board meetings (6/3 and 6/17), the public hearing in between (6/10) - and perhaps most interesting, the work session on boundary planning 6/24)momsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589728845018669169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75835839740861597722009-05-25T22:20:32.047-07:002009-05-25T22:20:32.047-07:00Thanks for pointing that out Melissa.
Yes, at cur...Thanks for pointing that out Melissa.<br /><br />Yes, at current if you have children already enrolled at whatever level they can stay at the school through the highest grade the school offers. <br /><br />Personal - we live in the Bryant reference area and received assignment to Laurelhurst half day K. As Bryant, Wedgwood, Thornton Creek, Greenlake and View Ridge are all closer to us than Laurelhurst I don't imagine LH will be our new assignment area school.<br /><br />Younger brother will enter K in a few years and I suspect our new assignment area school will be Bryant or Wedgwood? (As they are the two closest.) He would get an assignment there. I do doubt there will be open choice seats to have him join his sisters at LH. As nothing like Sibling Preference in the new plan we will have to decide on two separate schools, move to the Laurelhurst assignment area, or move the girls from LH to new assignment area school.<br /><br />For areas with enough room I think the new assignment plan will do great things to move monies to the classroom. For areas that are overcrowded (as currently written) it may prove to be a logistical nightmare for families.<br /><br />Melissa, I keep checking for your post on the board workshop that took place. I came late and did not hear the discussion about the Implementation phase. I would like to hear what, if any, questions the board members asked about this phase.StepJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11375599834945035820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89863809270204134152009-05-25T21:25:09.624-07:002009-05-25T21:25:09.624-07:00I am planning a post on the Assignment plan as it ...I am planning a post on the Assignment plan as it has been tweaked but that involves a lot of cross-referencing posts from other threads as well as checking in with Tracy Libros on a few items.<br /><br />One thing; I'm fairly sure there will be no choice seats for elementary or middle school. If the school is overenrolled, then the tiebreakers will kick in but it's not the same thing as set-aside seats for a lottery (as I think I understand that for high school).<br /><br />Also, you could have sibs grandfathered in IF you were at the attendance area school your area is assignment. So if you have a child already in, get one in this year, that sib would stay in with your first child if they are in the attendance area school.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17407567532804536092009-05-25T20:20:23.821-07:002009-05-25T20:20:23.821-07:00The funny thing is that three years ago, when they...The funny thing is that three years ago, when they were trying to close schools the first time, the district put Sacajawea on the chopping block because they were predicting there would be less demand for seats in the northeast cluster. Raj, wisely, vetoed it at the last second. Too bad he wasn't still around to keep TT Minor open; they're going to need that space in a few years too.<br /><br />stuStuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11769983958729170219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84434469429605584462009-05-25T18:34:16.933-07:002009-05-25T18:34:16.933-07:00Thanks Momster. ;-)
Right now -- but it keeps ch...Thanks Momster. ;-)<br /><br />Right now -- but it keeps changing pretty quickly -- there will be choice seats set aside for High School. <br /><br />There will only be choice seats open at the elementary and middle school levels if there is any space left after the enrollment of the assignment area kids.<br /><br />I live in the NE and there was enrollment well beyond estimates for this year and last -- and how many more years to come? As all schools are full and enrollment is beyond capacity I'm not seeing Choice seats open at the lower levels in the crowded areas of the city. :-(StepJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11375599834945035820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91039559720011006882009-05-25T18:13:10.932-07:002009-05-25T18:13:10.932-07:00stepj - you are absolutely right!
i think even th...stepj - you are absolutely right!<br /><br />i think even the priority given to siblings for choice seats won't be affected by 2009-10 enrollment because (as i understand it) there will be relatively fixed number of choice seats "available after assignment of attendance area students"<br /><br />thanksmomsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589728845018669169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75676542093879341402009-05-25T17:19:34.808-07:002009-05-25T17:19:34.808-07:00Just a point of clarification.
At current there...Just a point of clarification. <br /><br />At current there is no grandfathering of siblings in the new plan.<br /><br />The tail is chopped off so to speak.StepJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11375599834945035820noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47071538146332072732009-05-25T15:54:10.119-07:002009-05-25T15:54:10.119-07:00adhoc, they didn't stop accepting 430-449 students...adhoc, they didn't stop accepting 430-449 students "now" - they accepted ~410 in 2007 and ~370 in 2008.<br /><br />if anything, it seems like a rational transition.<br /><br />eckstein is too large, and enrolling another 430-450 6th graders would not only have exacerbated that problem, it would have probably lengthened the sibling grandfather "tail" that will delay the full realization of the new plan - more students = more siblings = longer grandfather effect.momsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589728845018669169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35006992048127877002009-05-24T22:47:39.549-07:002009-05-24T22:47:39.549-07:00"The timing may seem off but what kind of school w..."The timing may seem off but what kind of school will it be if it is overenrolled? "<br /><br />That's my point Melissa....the timing is off. I don't want to see Eckstein over crowded any more than anyone else. But, they have been accepting 430-449 students at 6th grade for many many years. Why stop now, the the year before the new assignment plan comes out? Why stop the same year that Hamilton begins housing the APP cohort, and is full with a waitlist? And, Addams?? You can't assign kids there so it isn't much help with neighborhood capacity either. The entire middle school is only 100 kids large. It will serve LESS students than Summit did. Capacity in the NE is at an all time high. Families that live within walking distance of Eckstein are not getting in. It hardly seems right to cut capacity right now without a larger plan.<br /><br />it would be prudent to wait until next year to reduce capacity. The new assignment plan will be in effect, and every kid in every neighborhood will have a predictable assignment to a comprehensive middle school. They will move with their school mates and neighborhood friends. <br /><br />This year the kids are all being torn apart, and split up. I'm not disgruntled about my son not getting in to Eckstein, and am optimistic that Addams will work just fine for him. I am however very disappointed and saddened for him because he is being torn apart from all of his elementary school friends and most of his neighborhood friends. And that sucks when you are 12. I have dealt with his tears every day this week. <br /><br /><br /><br />I really think Eckstein should wait until next year, with the new assingment plan, and as part of a larger plan, to cut back.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90211393033329423142009-05-24T21:17:33.302-07:002009-05-24T21:17:33.302-07:00I concur with Solvay; there's enough good elementa...I concur with Solvay; there's enough good elementaries. Save your private schools dollars (if necessary) for middle and high school.<br /><br />Reducing Eckstein. Look, we have Superintendent Olchefske to thank for overstuffing it in the first place. I also remember one indignant mom telling me that when she when to Eckstein in the '70s, it had 2,000 kids (which I'm not sure I believe). The point is sure, you can keep stuffing them in. BUT no matter how big it gets, it still gets funded as a middle school. Doesn't matter if it is bigger than about 5 of the high schools. You can certainly do more with less and stretch already shrinking resources but to what end? To have a good program slowly get worse? The Eckstein staff is good but not that good. No one can be. Whitman slowly pulled back on their enrollment and now Eckstein is. The timing may seem off but what kind of school will it be if it is overenrolled? It is also disrespectful to other communities that there are some schools that are allowed to be artificially LOW while others are expected to overenroll. <br /><br />My sons' 5th grade teacher at Whittier made every single student know the multiplication tables up to 12 before they left her classroom. She had parents test and if a kid missed even one, you stopped for the day and they had to try again. (Only the tables they hadn't completed.) I felt like it really served my boys well.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87569028328565914512009-05-24T14:42:10.564-07:002009-05-24T14:42:10.564-07:00I have to correct my last comment after re-reading...I have to correct my last comment after re-reading the note that I referenced. Bryant was her first choice, but not necessarily her reference school...I misread in haste!Kathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02478687666660830895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20005386596656845382009-05-24T11:57:54.575-07:002009-05-24T11:57:54.575-07:00Very interesting. I had calculated our distance fr...Very interesting. I had calculated our distance from the school based on a driving route on mapquest. When I used the google maps feature and calculated the distance "as the crow flies" we are 1.67 miles from Eckstein. My son is 4th on the WL, so I guess 1.67 miles was the cut off for gen ed students this year.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18278460734724275732009-05-24T11:06:23.979-07:002009-05-24T11:06:23.979-07:00Just to respond to the poster asking if anyone out...Just to respond to the poster asking if anyone out of walking range did not get transportation to John Roberts:<br /><br />While we DID get transportation, I just saw an email from another Bryant family that did NOT get bussing. I don't know how you can be in the Bryant reference area and be considered "walking distance" to JR, but there you go.Kathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02478687666660830895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86336761566579528662009-05-24T10:29:01.984-07:002009-05-24T10:29:01.984-07:00ps - re the distance between wallingford and eckst...ps - re the distance between wallingford and eckstein - if you pick an address like 50th st and 4th ave ne (which i'm pretty sure would be considered wallingford - just at the ne edge), the distance atcf is 1.86 miles (vs adhoc's 1.9 miles between lake city and eckstein) - and so would be a case where a wallingford student makes it in and a lake city student does not.<br /><br />my guess is the difference between a general ed student who makes it and one who doesn't is tenths of miles if not less.<br /><br />not to say it should be this arcane an algorithm to figure out where your child is going to school.<br /><br />thanks again for the atcf distance calculator, robertmomsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589728845018669169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37093165234344315042009-05-24T10:20:28.599-07:002009-05-24T10:20:28.599-07:00Robert - brilliant - thank you for the google maps...Robert - brilliant - thank you for the google maps tip - i never knew that was there.<br /><br />it took me a while, but i finally figured out it's 'my maps', 'featured content', 'distance measuring tool' - and you left click to mark the two points you're measuring the distance between.<br /><br />to others' points about why 'as the crow flies' is ridiculous - i think they probably chose it because there is only one 'as the crow flies - straight line is the shortest distance between two points' while there are many road-ways to get from one place to another - so it makes the latter the fairer and and more defensible method.momsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10589728845018669169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91283422546019646982009-05-23T18:44:43.960-07:002009-05-23T18:44:43.960-07:00Multiplication tables were taught in elementary sc...Multiplication tables were taught in elementary school, even drilled a bit, but neither of my kids ever mastered their times tables in elementary. Once my older son went on to higher level math he mastered them just by virtue of the fact that he had to use them routinely. And, now in 5th grade, my younger son has mastered his times table. Honestly, I haven't found EDM all that bad. It's a heck of a lot better than Turk which is what my older sons school used in elementary. That was truly awful.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03716725891562757052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39258647190928352292009-05-23T18:04:34.295-07:002009-05-23T18:04:34.295-07:00Multiplication at Lowell APP happened a in the 2nd...Multiplication at Lowell APP happened a in the 2nd yr and ended a month ago and happened at home. I believe that was it. <br /><br />Google maps calculates direct distances... My Maps and then distance tool.<br /><br />I would think that with all this concern on assignments that certain placements would be great. I fear that arbitrary placements with non-equal support to schools (new assignment plan) will harvest the same heart break.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07751038868847448430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10723773993212969242009-05-23T17:57:19.936-07:002009-05-23T17:57:19.936-07:00I wrote: "I want the District to have schools that...I wrote: "I want the District to have schools that would make all of Seattle's private school families abandon them. " BADLY...<br /><br />Of course, I mean I'd want the SPS schools to be so good that the privates would close-up shop. :-)SolvayGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12709893209963350066noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76122166901122392522009-05-23T17:55:39.793-07:002009-05-23T17:55:39.793-07:00H2O...It looks like the elementaries got better ab...H2O...It looks like the elementaries got better about multiplication; it's been a while since we were there.<br /><br />As for high school, we opted for private. We still liked TCS a lot, but between Discovery Math, the outside chance of future closure and the probability that Dr G-J will dismantle or dilute most of the alternatives, we just weren't willing to gamble our daughter's 4 years of high school.<br /><br />She was accepted at 3 schools (Holy Names, Seattle Prep and The Northwest School). We qualified for aid and have generous grandparents to help us; she is our only. We live simply. We opted for NWS; it's the perfect fit for her and our family. We believe she will continue to blossom and thrive as she did at Explorer West Middle School.<br /><br />We gave SPS 8 years as dedicated parents who did a great deal for the school. We still support public education, hence my interest in all that is happening. I want the District to have schools that would make all of Seattle's private school families abandon them. But I've already seen how little affect I have as an individual against the insanity that is this District. My child needs more than she can get at the public schools we could get into—it's as simple as that.SolvayGirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12709893209963350066noreply@blogger.com