tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post2347133252265700107..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Curriculum And Instruction Committee MeetingMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65633161624564670962015-11-17T12:03:45.427-08:002015-11-17T12:03:45.427-08:00I have always supported self-selection for access ...I have always supported self-selection for access to Spectrum. That's why I supported ALOs when they first appeared.<br /><br />But programs change over time and ALOs have become nothing and Spectrum has become ALO, which is nothing.<br /><br />There are district officials, principals, and teachers who will tell you that they deliver Spectrum "services" or their ALO through differentiation in the inclusive setting of the general education classroom. When they say this, you need to ask them: "Isn't this just good teaching practice? Wouldn't you do this even if your school were not a designated Spectrum or ALO site?" They will say that it is. They always say that it is. They may even wax poetic about it.<br /><br />Then you can ask them "So what's the difference between having Spectrum or ALO and not having Spectrum or ALO if you are doing nothing different than you would be doing if you didn't have Spectrum or ALO?" Suddenly they will become a lot less talkative.<br /><br />Let's set aside - for the moment - the question of whether the delivery method of differentiated instruction in an inclusive general education classroom can reliably deliver the deeper, broader, further lessons that are promised by Spectrum and ALO. We can come back to that question later. Let's start with the admission that a Spectrum or ALO with that delivery method is no different from having no Spectrum or ALO at all.<br /><br />Spectrum is dead. It no longer exists. It has been replaced by MTSS. That has been the District's plan for years, dating all the way back to Wendy London when MTSS was called RTI. There's only one thing wrong with this plan: they are taking away the Spectrum before the MTSS is in place.<br /><br />Before the 520 bridge across Lake Washington there was a ferry service that ran from Madison Park to Kirkland. The ferry service continued until the bridge was complete. The District has dismantled Spectrum before MTSS is in place. That's like ending the ferry service before the bridge is in place. The result is predictable: cars running off the end of the bridge into the lake.<br /><br />It's actually worse. Engineers knew that the bridge would work. The is much less cause for confidence in MTSS.<br /><br />The cake is a lie.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31907735433445089052015-11-16T20:31:35.136-08:002015-11-16T20:31:35.136-08:00@rolling, so is yours. Ever tried to get appropria...@rolling, so is yours. Ever tried to get appropriate work for a 2e kid in a general ed class?2e parentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39767353759115997762015-11-16T10:35:03.026-08:002015-11-16T10:35:03.026-08:00@Rolling,
Maybe it shows privilege, but it's ...@Rolling,<br /><br />Maybe it shows privilege, but it's also true. I've twice had children tested by the district when I already had private test results in hand. The cost to the district of testing my children was a waste. Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-78922372248140639032015-11-16T09:52:46.298-08:002015-11-16T09:52:46.298-08:00SW mom - your privilege is showing. SW mom - your privilege is showing. Rolling Eyesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15206382692524233622015-11-16T08:04:14.229-08:002015-11-16T08:04:14.229-08:00WSDWG, discussing any scores with any parent is no...WSDWG, discussing <i>any</i> scores with <i>any</i> parent is not okay. And I doubt anyone at JSCEE will give a rat's patootie. They weren't going to do anything re: the 7K SpEd student records until the PTSA called them on it. They don't seem to care when administrators' laptops with student data get stolen.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83620125669399051532015-11-16T00:50:10.400-08:002015-11-16T00:50:10.400-08:00So, for the record, just to be clear, Reader, you ...So, for the record, just to be clear, Reader, you and your "others in the community" will be much happier when more kids are denied an appropriate placement for their child, correct? And your kid isn't in an AL program, but you're at a school where AL and HCC are located, and have staff that snark about those kids behind their backs, alleging they "aren't that smart" and such, because the staff have seen, and discussed Cogat scores with you, a non-HCC, non-AL parent, correct? <br /><br />Please, I don't want to misquote or misunderstand you when I speak personally with JSCEE staff about this. So, do tell all you know. And thanks for your help. <br /><br />WSDWGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-72355346565032448392015-11-15T22:45:42.694-08:002015-11-15T22:45:42.694-08:00I agree with WSDWG. There are many reasons why so...I agree with WSDWG. There are many reasons why some kids test more accurately in a one-on-one situation, especially (but not exclusively) 2Es. The object here ought to be to identify as many kids as possible who would benefit from HC classes -- and then figure out how, and where, to provide them. I guess I don't know what the "community" says on this -- but I know for a fact that every single psychologist I have ever talked to (including many who do not provide testing as a service -- so they have no skin in the game) are adamant that limiting evaluations to large group environments (with little to no appeal) is flawed and is a diagnostically unsupportable position (though it may be cheap).Jannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-64487546505349259942015-11-15T21:52:38.336-08:002015-11-15T21:52:38.336-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55966365194374153552015-11-15T21:20:21.123-08:002015-11-15T21:20:21.123-08:00@ WSDWG - You are spot on with your assessment of ...@ WSDWG - You are spot on with your assessment of district testing. It is a way of identifying students but hardly the most effective way (as the research on the tests demonstrates!). Why not accept district testing AND private testing AND teacher recommendation AND parent recommendation AND private psychologist referral? Why not create more on-roads instead of less? Many families could opt out of the district testing right off the bat and go a route that is more fitting for their student. The district makes more work for itself by mandating everyone has to go through them first. I'd bet many families would skip the district-step if they could.<br /><br />SW MomAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29292156513438840512015-11-15T19:27:25.958-08:002015-11-15T19:27:25.958-08:00Reader-
Provide your source/data, please? I look...Reader-<br /><br />Provide your source/data, please? I look forward to seeing it. <br /><br />Some people don't "believe" in global warming either. Just because you can point to someone who holds a non-fact based belief doesn't make it so.<br /><br />- fact believer<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13826906897760766562015-11-15T17:17:02.403-08:002015-11-15T17:17:02.403-08:00Spin it anyway YOU want WSDWG. Appeals are tighte...Spin it anyway YOU want WSDWG. Appeals are tightening up. Most people, inside SPS and in the community, don't believe in the private testing industry - and support the district on this one. You won't get a lot of sympathy for your cause.<br /><br />Reader.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-11516227151459094672015-11-15T12:51:50.658-08:002015-11-15T12:51:50.658-08:00@Sleepless & Anon again: Actually I said almo...@Sleepless & Anon again: Actually I said almost 40% of TOTAL appeals were granted. I didn't say 40% of PRIVATE appeals were granted. I don't know the actual breakdown of those numbers. Given the numbers we have, my 40% estimate is actually too high. 166 out of 493 is actually 33% or 1 in 3, which is still quite significant. That said, I'd appreciate people parroting and quoting me to use "one-third" instead of 40% from this point forward, for accuracy's sake. <br /><br />Again, I'm not playing private against public or rich against poor (as some do perpetually). The point is that the district is missing dozens, if not hundreds of kids through it's administration of the admissions tests. So, whether private or publicly granted, the appeals process is later appropriately placing a substantial number of kids who slipped through the cracks of the district's screening process, meaning appeals are likely a godsend for the 166 or so families who entered HCC through that process last year. <br /><br />And the district is now proposing to slam the door in the face of similarly situated families in the coming years, instead of fixing or improving a very broken process. All this proposal does is reduce the work for SPS's AL Department while knowingly depriving hundreds of kids of an appropriate education. And some people will support such disdainful actions in the name of equity and fairness, while slamming and maligning other people's kids as "privileged little darlings" who get a "golden ticket," etc. Classy. <br /><br />WSDWGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24911445974138857752015-11-15T00:39:46.021-08:002015-11-15T00:39:46.021-08:00@Teacher: Thanks for "getting it" re: d...@Teacher: Thanks for "getting it" re: district testing. The issue is properly identifying HC kids. The steps the district is proposing will severely limit appeals of all types, both privately funded and district funded. The fault in their logic is to act as though the district's testing is itself effective enough to do the job. If 40% or so of appealed cases are clear "misses" by the district, then the district's proposal is ill-conceived and troubling. The fact is that hundreds of HC kids are not identified by the district and screened out when they shouldn't be AS THE DISTRICT ITSELF ULTIMATELY DETERMINED through the appeals process. Thus, the only known inequity in the process is neither the number or type of appeals, but the district's testing process which erroneously screens out hundreds of kids who shouldn't be screened out. Why that fact causes so little concern within SPS is perplexing if they truly seek to be equitable. The proposal leaves a faulty process in place, while limiting what can be done about it. What a fix! Take a no-brainer, ignore it, and fix something that isn't broken instead!<br /><br />Instead of asking why are we getting and granting so many appeals, and what we can do to improve the testing process, they are only asking "how can we cut down on appeals(?)," which makes the admittedly error-prone district the sole determiner of placement, which completely undermines the idea of equity and fairness. <br /><br />WSDWG Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23120184080021515312015-11-14T22:42:11.799-08:002015-11-14T22:42:11.799-08:00Oops forgot to sign my name. That was me at 10:40....Oops forgot to sign my name. That was me at 10:40.<br />TeacherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41094913978775890652015-11-14T22:40:57.582-08:002015-11-14T22:40:57.582-08:00@WSDWG
I totally agree with you regarding appeals....@WSDWG<br />I totally agree with you regarding appeals. Every year, I have bright,young students who do poorly on the district advanced learning group testing. When they test privately their scores mirror what I am seeing in class, unlike the district testing. If the appeals are taken away, or limited as proposed, these kids won't get the proper education they need. <br /><br />Also, some people think that folks "buy" their way into advanced learning with private testing. That has not been my experience. Some kids who are privately tested do well in the testing and some don't. I have more faith in the integrity of the private evaluators.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27492309917265121102015-11-14T21:58:50.480-08:002015-11-14T21:58:50.480-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58382720875932402132015-11-14T21:57:17.959-08:002015-11-14T21:57:17.959-08:00Actually, WSDWG's point is that district testi...Actually, WSDWG's point is that district testing has a terribly high failure rate and isn't reliable. Without private testing providing a check on the district's failed testing model, even more kids would be denied the proper education they need, and the district is diving head first into making the already poor testing system ever worse. <br /><br />Reader, privilege is not enough to get a kid into HCC. You are dead wrong on that charge, once again. The district only admits kids into HCC who belong there, and when district testing has failed to identify them. They are the gatekeeper and there is not one fault with the appeal process as it stands now. The obvious fault is in the district testing. <br /><br />Whether private or publicly granted appeals, the process exists to right wrongs and address mistakes, just like a Court of Appeals. <br /><br />Spin it any way you want, Reader. But the facts show it's the testing, not the appeals therefrom, where the problem lies. <br /><br />That was WSDWG's point.<br /><br />WSDWG <br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-805266133561887092015-11-14T17:51:18.373-08:002015-11-14T17:51:18.373-08:00Again, equality doesn't not mean equity. You ...Again, equality doesn't not mean equity. You do know that words in any constitution are open to interpretation by a court. You can do it, I can do it but the courts get the final word.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41517812252289326782015-11-14T17:49:16.352-08:002015-11-14T17:49:16.352-08:00The Constitution says "The legislature shall ...The Constitution says "The legislature shall provide for a general and uniform system of public schools."<br /><br />This has been upheld for example in Bryan 498, "The system must be uniform in that every child shall have the same advantages and be subject to the same discipline as every other child." <br /><br />LisaGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82301066875550354612015-11-14T14:49:43.769-08:002015-11-14T14:49:43.769-08:00At our school, we are told by the principal and d...At our school, we are told by the principal and do placements accordingly. Fact. Not sure why others are bothered by simple facts. Isn't it best to know? People should know all of your appeals are kept, and knowable moving forward.<br /><br /><br />Empl(staff and parent also)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75159517992851479142015-11-14T13:36:55.626-08:002015-11-14T13:36:55.626-08:00Staff does NOT know anything about Cogat scores, a...Staff does NOT know anything about Cogat scores, appeals, any of it. Only MAP scores. I'm not sure why it's interesting to people to try to stir this up. <br /><br />Staff&ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-3513765787923202192015-11-14T12:05:31.757-08:002015-11-14T12:05:31.757-08:00Yeah Anon WSDawg's point though is that 40% wh...<i>Yeah Anon WSDawg's point though is that 40% who appeal get in with outside testing.</i><br /><br />Once again, misrepresentation of the data. We don't know if those that appealed used private testing, district testing, or no additional testing. An appeal can include a letter from a teacher, work samples, etc. The appeals process is also for both Spectrum/ALO and HCC, and the numbers provided aren't broken down based on program. It's also more like a third, as 166/493 = 34%. That's still less than 5% of those that go through the AL application process (around 5000 this year?).<br /><br />anon againAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46019568935121733792015-11-14T12:01:19.573-08:002015-11-14T12:01:19.573-08:00Staff knows.
EmplStaff knows.<br /><br />EmplAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39257444543825389492015-11-14T11:45:23.024-08:002015-11-14T11:45:23.024-08:00"But isn't that a requirement of the stat..."But isn't that a requirement of the state constitution's definition of common school - it needs to be uniform for all students. The state Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that way throughout the years."<br /><br />I don't believe that is the definition of "common school."<br /><br />You may be confusing equity with equality. They are not the same thing.<br /><br />Reader is lumping all AL together and HCC is not Spectrum. I actually would support Spectrum level teaching in all schools. Indeed, Maple Elementary tried it many years back, with great results, and then it died because the district did not support it.<br /><br />Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61877761249613727052015-11-14T11:11:31.323-08:002015-11-14T11:11:31.323-08:00Yes Moving on, Readers recent post is bogus. No wa...Yes Moving on, Readers recent post is bogus. No way would they know who utilized private testing to get into no services. Which school is that Reader.<br /><br />Yeah Anon WSDawg's point though is that 40% who appeal get in with outside testing. We have no idea how many who didn't get in didn't appeal or had private testing that reflected was similar to the districts. What we do know is that 5% though are being missed that now will have no recourse for no real reason... Except to help enrollment get numbers quicker perhaps.<br /><br />And no lisag that is not what common school means. And HC is now considered basic education.<br /><br />-Sleepless <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com