tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post2728583495568622841..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Tuesday Open ThreadMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38419408525798922282016-06-12T17:58:30.864-07:002016-06-12T17:58:30.864-07:00No matter how you look at it, squeezing more class...No matter how you look at it, squeezing more classes (30 credits' worth vs. 24) into the same amount of time means less will be covered in each class. The proposed schedule effectively turns all classes into "lite" versions of what they are now. The graduation rate might increase if classes cover less material and you can fail one out of every five classes, but I don't see how kids will be any more "college and career ready" under this plan. Probably less so.<br /><br />The exception to "lite" classes would be any that remain yearlong (1.5 credits). However, those classes then take up disproportionately more of a student's schedule. AP/IB students, in particular, would be inequitably impacted by such a move if those classes were made longer than others. <br /><br />DTMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-17839059562643029422016-06-12T11:15:15.663-07:002016-06-12T11:15:15.663-07:00Mirmac, did you catch that Confused Dad's hypo...Mirmac, did you catch that Confused Dad's hypothetical schedule only allowed for one trimester of orchestra? Even if you could "fit" the classes into a hypothetical 3x5 schedule for a given year, the classes would not be year long and would cover only a fraction of what a current 2 semester class covers. An SL level IB course requires 150+ hours of classroom time, but a 3x5 schedule has at most 120 hours of actual classroom time for a 2 trimester course. If you add in assemblies, state testing, early releases, etc., there is even less classroom time.<br /><br />-magical thinkingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20590518756298922452016-06-12T09:39:00.761-07:002016-06-12T09:39:00.761-07:003x5 would mean my incoming IB student could still ...3x5 would mean my incoming IB student could still take physics and Band. No room in the schedule otherwise.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79507423556608807392016-06-10T11:14:58.962-07:002016-06-10T11:14:58.962-07:00The fundamental flaw with 3x5 is that it simply do...The fundamental flaw with 3x5 is that it simply does not work with a College Prep pathway. In 2014, 62% of Seattle high school graduates went on to a 4-year college or university. (http://erdcdata.wa.gov/hsfb.aspx). <br /><br />This is 62% of SPS high school students who wouldn't be able to take year-long electives (music, world language) because their schedules are front-loaded with academic courses Fall and Winter. And 62% of SPS high school students who would be less competitive to college admission boards because every Spring their schedules are filled with "light" classes. <br /><br />Let's look at Confused Dad's sample schedule, one that is not uncommon for these 62% of kids preparing to go to 4-year college. After taking AP English, AP Government, AP Calculus, & Physics in Fall & Winter to accommodate Spring AP & required state testing, Spring senior year might look like this:<br />1. French 2B (at 1 trimester a year, this is as far as you can go. So much for the 3 years of foreign language colleges recommend)<br />2. Visual art<br />3. Theater<br />4. PE<br />5. Intermediate orchestra (because getting to the level of "Chamber" with 1 trimester per year instead of 3 would be impossible)<br /><br />Not that these aren't valuable educational experiences. They absolutely are! But NOT when they are the only classes in a day for 60 days straight. Two trimesters of solid academics followed by one trimester of zero academics is severely lacking in balance and sense. <br /><br />If the plan is to reduce the number of AP classes Seattle students can take, so that academic courses can be staggered Fall & Spring, well, that hurts too. <br />1. It makes Seattle graduates less competitive to colleges;<br />2. It leads to lower scores on required state tests, because these would be administered in the spring, before coursework was completed;<br />3. It does not constitute a "basic education" for highly capable students;<br />4. It removes a proven, successful tool in reducing the opportunity gap.<br /><br />No 3x5noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39320473937745685002016-06-10T10:24:08.866-07:002016-06-10T10:24:08.866-07:00The problem with wishful thinking is the intixicat...The problem with wishful thinking is the intixication. <br /><br />Double your money, no risk<br />Lose weight, no exercise <br /><br />A 3x5 schedule is magical thinking. More credits, less homework, smaller teacher case loads, less stress. There is always a catch. kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15210816319312824502016-06-09T21:30:36.187-07:002016-06-09T21:30:36.187-07:00Let's look at a slightly less messed up distri...Let's look at a slightly less messed up district - Bellevue. Bellevue has required 23.5 credits for the classes of 2015 through 2018 to graduate. I looked at Newport High School - they're changing their start time next year and will have a school day with seven 50 minute periods from 8:30 to 3:30 three days a week and two block days - one of these days is an early release at 1:10. There is an optional daily zero period from 7:05 to 7:55, followed by a tutorial from 7:55 to 8:25. Students taking skills center classes are eligible for an optional 8th period class. <br /><br />Freshman and sophomores are required to take seven classes while juniors and seniors must take at least six.<br /><br />So, longer school days with tutorials available before school and optional zero and 8th periods is working there. No limitations on the availability of AP classes and plenty of room to take electives too.Lynnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25496131663460524852016-06-09T19:23:54.069-07:002016-06-09T19:23:54.069-07:00northwesterner said, Some of these classes, even t...northwesterner said, <i>Some of these classes, even though they are AP, are not so full content that they need to be taken in a year long sequence (given the increased class time under the 3x5 schedule).</i><br /><br />There WOULD NOT be increased class time under a 3x5 schedule (yes, I'm shouting). Class periods are slightly longer, but there are fewer of them for a given course. Switching from a 2x6 schedule to a 3x5 schedule would be equivalent to chopping over 7 weeks from a given class. A 3x5 schedule is taking time from each course in order to create more periods.<br /><br />Let’s do the math:<br /><br />Consider a 2x6 schedule – two semesters of 6 periods, 50 minutes each (the other time is passing period). The actual time spent in class each day is 300 minutes (6x50). Assume that same instructional time is available with a 3x5 schedule – 300 minutes. Calculating the actual time spent per course in a 2x6 semester schedule: 180 days x 50 minutes = 9000 minutes. <br /><br />With a 3x5 schedule, and 300 minutes of instructional time, each class would be 60 minutes long (300/5). The “longer” classes meet for only 120 days. Calculating the actual time spent per course in a 3x5 schedule: 120 days x 60 minutes = 7200 minutes.<br /><br />Actual class time per course in a 2x6 schedule: 9000 minutes (150 hours)<br />Actual class time per course in a 3x5 schedule: 7200 minutes (120 hours)<br /><br />Wow! 30 fewer hours per course when switching from a 2x6 schedule to a 3x5 schedule. That’s like losing over 7 weeks of 50 minute classes. That’s huge. Ask a teacher if they could cover the same course content as now with 7 fewer weeks of classes. Whether it's Algebra 1 or AP Calculus, that's simply a lot of lost instructional time. Talk about stressful.<br /><br />-simple mathAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60704487422329208812016-06-09T16:15:50.641-07:002016-06-09T16:15:50.641-07:00@ northwesterner, I don't think that's alw...@ northwesterner, I don't think that's always how year-long college courses work out on quarter vs semester systems. I was on the semester system, and calculus was 2 semesters. My son is on the quarter system, and it's 3 quarters. A year, in each case. <br /><br />While there *may* be room to shorten some AP courses to 2 trimesters, reducing them from 180 days to 120 is a big jump. They'll need to cover the material 50% faster in order to get through it all. That hardly seems likely to help alleviate all that AP-related stress Ramona is so worried about. <br /><br />Also note that AP exams start in early May. With how late the SPS school calendar runs, that would be more like 6 weeks of lost instruction in a third-trimester AP class. That's most of the trimester! So if 3-trimester AP classes aren't realistic, and if 2-trimester AP classes are too rushed and intensive, what do we do?<br /><br />DTMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84956041208295377332016-06-09T13:44:20.296-07:002016-06-09T13:44:20.296-07:00@ Ramona,
Yes, this scenario translates to a lon...@ Ramona, <br /><br />Yes, this scenario translates to a longer prep time for staff, but doesn't is also translate to a lot more work to do in that prep time, since the term is so much shorter? After all, if x is the amount of work a teacher needs to do for a class (e.g. grading papers and exams), 150x /90 days = 1.67x per day, but 120x /60 days = 2x per day, right? Shortening the term by 1/3 increases workload MORE than would be offset by decreasing student load by 20%. <br /><br />Clearly you're not a fan of AP classes. It's a shame that the task force doesn't seem to have taken the needs of highly capable students into consideration.<br /><br /><i>Kids are spending the SAME amount of time learning, they are just potentially learning a wider variety of things, without having to juggle as much homework at any one time.</i><br /> You keep saying those words... The only way that a 3x5 schedule translates into less homework is if classes are watered down versions of the current offerings. I addressed this above, but here's another way of thinking about it. If you take 15 classes per year, instead of the current 12, that's an increase of 25%. If classes are comparable now and then, that should mean 25% more material covered, 25% more homework done, etc. Even keeping homework levels the same as now would mean that classes would need to cover less. To see an actual reduction in homework, they'd need to cover a lot less. <br /><br /><i>After years of listening to kids testify down in Olympia, my takeaway is that the AP-laden schedule is stressful for a lot and boring to many. Teen after teen plead: give us options; we like taking creative classes where we can apply what we learn, not just absorb facts </i> <br /> Nobody is forcing AP-laden schedules on kids. So is this an SPS policy decision to move away from AP classes? As far as I understand, the district is mandated to serve identified highly capable students, and in high school SPS does this via AP classes. Just because you or students who testify often find them boring or stressful does not mean that others don't find them engaging and necessary. Have you looked at the course catalog for Garfield--the APP/HCC pathway school--to see just how many AP offerings there are? There's great demand.<br /><br /><i>A lot kids in college work on a quarter system (usually skipping the summer/4th, so in fact a trimester), often taking 5 classes at a time. So this is not such a crazy scenario.</i><br /> I'm not sure what you're getting at. College and high school requirements are not analogous. Colleges don't tell kids they need to take 4 years of English and three years of SS and three years of science and 2-3 years of math and 2-3 years of foreign language and 2 years of health and year of CTE and 2 years of fine arts. College breadth requirements are much more minimal, and students have much more flexibility. <br /><br /><i>No learning time is lost; time is applied differently.</i><br /><br /> If you're talking about any particular class, that's just not true. 60 days of 70 min/day = 4200 minutes in a particular trimester-based class, whereas 90 days of 55 min/day = 4950 minutes. Under that scenario the 3x5 schedule means 15% less instructional time, and 33% less home-based learning time. And that's using that overly optimistic (and seemingly not actually feasible, since it doesn't allow for passing periods) figure of 70 minutes per class. A more reasonable figure of 65 minutes per class means only 3900 minutes of instruction, 21% less than now. <br /><br /> So I take it you're talking about overall learning time, not learning time in a specific class. In which case you are essentially saying the focus will be on BREADTH, NOT DEPTH. Is that accurate? Few minutes devoted to any particular class, but you can take more classes. Lite beer, less filling! <br /><br />DTMAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36001047547785406962016-06-09T13:22:17.130-07:002016-06-09T13:22:17.130-07:00HP - This is off-topic, but FWIW I made three stop...HP - This is off-topic, but FWIW I made three stops on my journey to my B.A. and two were quarters, one was semesters. I vastly preferred quarters. Get in, work really hard, and get out. Semesters seemed to drag on forever ... by the time cumulative final came around my notes from the first couple weeks might as well have been in Greek because it'd been so long since that material was covered.<br /><br />On topic - right now the district's semesters do not match up with the quarter system used with the region's Community Colleges. Switching to a 3x5 won't make things worse, as they don't sequence now.<br /><br />northwesternerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22931163511310439082016-06-09T13:02:33.135-07:002016-06-09T13:02:33.135-07:00Having been in both semester (undergrad) and quart...Having been in both semester (undergrad) and quarter (graduate school) systems, I greatly prefer the semester system. You are always behind in the quarter system and tests count for so much more of your grade. <br /><br />My oldest is on a semester system and you have to take 15 credits a semester to get all the credits you need for graduation. Taking between 12-18 credits costs the same. You have to have at least 12 credits to be considered full time. Not sure what the breakdown is for the quarter system.<br /><br />Also, how does this all play into to Running Start? Does it help or hurt? If we go to quarters, will we go to the schedule of one quarter before Christmas and two after?<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-76034463060571333892016-06-09T12:58:33.662-07:002016-06-09T12:58:33.662-07:00Obviously parent and HS parent missed the point I ...Obviously parent and HS parent missed the point I was trying to make.<br /><br />I understand that college students operating on the quarter system are typically not taking 5 classes per term. I've been there, done that. That does not mean that understanding how colleges are able to divide content between a series of classes taken year long on semesters versus quarters is irrelevant to the discussion. <br /><br />In fact, I believe it is very instructive, and relevant to the discussion. <br /><br />The problem we've had with this discussion so far is the assumptions many have made about how long each class will be on a trimester system at high school.<br /><br />Example "My kid takes band, AP Calc, AP American Gov't, AP Chemistry, AP English Comp, and Spanish III. Those are all year long classes, today. Therefore, on a trimester system, my kid will have to drop one of the series of classes, because these will all be taught in a three trimester sequence.' <br /><br />I disagree with that conclusion. Some of these classes, even though they are AP, are not so full content that they need to be taken in a year long sequence (given the increased class time under the 3x5 schedule). At a university on semesters, English Comp is a two semester sequence, on quarters typically a two quarter sequence. Can they get all the material in if it is taught in two trimesters? Same story with calculus. On the other hand, a year of Chem on semesters in college is a year of Chem in quarters (presumably driven by the minimum number of labs that need to be performed). I'd assume that would be a three trimester long sequence. <br /><br />If you run through this exercise for all the classes, taking a close look at the curriculum, I would expect you'd find many of the year long classes could fit in a two trimester schedule, while others would continue to be year long (music is an obvious one). Thus my original conclusion that there would be less flexibility than Ramona expects, but more than what Lynn calculated in a previous thread. <br /><br />P.S. - I'm aware of the issues with AP testing in May and the difficulty of a two trimester AP class with the second trimester of the course being trimester 3. Thus, the content would need to be completed before the exam, cutting about a month of lectures out of the classroom. <b>That</b> issue may be insurmountable. <br /><br />northwesternerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28557964552816912462016-06-09T12:46:03.660-07:002016-06-09T12:46:03.660-07:00"Going back to 24 Credits' numbers, the s..."Going back to 24 Credits' numbers, the state gives us $5M for 24 credits, of which $1.9M is dedicated to counselors (yay!). This leaves $3.1M for the rest of the district"<br /><br />The state has provided $5M, but costs related to counselors are $1.9M above state allocation.24 Creditsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87480920916730152312016-06-09T12:21:02.042-07:002016-06-09T12:21:02.042-07:00I took 5-6 classes per quarter (15-18 credits) in ...I took 5-6 classes per quarter (15-18 credits) in college, but a class would typically meet MWF for an hour, or TH for 1.5 hours. Labs would meet once per week for maybe 2-3 hrs. I'd agree with HS parent - really not comparable. Much more work was done outside of class.<br /><br />Seattle Times' Education Lab has an interesting student piece on project based learning at Cleveland:<br /><br />http://www.seattletimes.com/education-lab/student-voices-why-im-unsure-project-based-learning-prepares-students-for-college/<br /><br />-parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15841747047049006852016-06-09T11:48:20.311-07:002016-06-09T11:48:20.311-07:00Students in college quarter systems do not usually...Students in college quarter systems do not usually take 5 classes per quarter. They also put in many more hours studying outside of class time than high school students. At least the engineering students I know do. I don't think we can compare them.<br /><br />-HS ParentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-316860628389707352016-06-09T11:11:31.480-07:002016-06-09T11:11:31.480-07:00Ramona, I feel like you are trying to have it both...Ramona, I feel like you are trying to have it both ways. You're saying we can't do block scheduling like Hale does because of cost while ignoring substantial increases in cost due to the 3x5 schedule. The added numbers from 24 Credits doesn't help the analysis any. <br /><br />You've said a couple of times that the 3x5 system results in lower student loads per teacher. OK, so class size stays constant at 30/class and teachers cover 120 students per term instead of 150. The number of students is constant, so you need more FTE teachers. Ingraham currently has around 80 FTE teachers. Under your assumptions, this goes up to about 100 (+25%), at a cost of ~$2M/year. By contrast, a 30-minute advisory period would add around 8% if one assumed the same "hourly rate" for teachers. I don't know how much longer the day at Hale is, but I assume it's not a 25% increase. To sum up, you can't discount one option because of cost while ignoring major (although not fully documented) costs of the preferred option. At least not in a fair selection process.<br /><br />Going back to 24 Credits' numbers, the state gives us $5M for 24 credits, of which $1.9M is dedicated to counselors (yay!). This leaves $3.1M for the rest of the district, or 3 FTE teachers per comprehensive high school. So either class sizes go up negating the entire premise of the 3x5 schedule or it's yet another unfunded mandate from the state or we won't really get that many counselor slots. None of those sound very good. Eric Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57697970776473094222016-06-09T10:54:12.375-07:002016-06-09T10:54:12.375-07:00I think the answer is in an Onion video.
https:/...I think the answer is in an Onion video. <br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkGMY63FF3Q<br /><br />"The idea is there...we're halfway there...feasibility deals with implementation...I'm not involved with that."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53715873346150179732016-06-09T10:45:51.840-07:002016-06-09T10:45:51.840-07:00Lots of handwringing going on here over the 3x5 sc...Lots of handwringing going on here over the 3x5 schedule. <br /><br />All of it is based on assumptions about which classes will be mapped from a year long, two semester course to either a two-trimester course or three-trimester, year long course.<br /><br />Because we don't know, there's a lot of speculation.<br /><br />If we look towards the university system, however, we can glean some insights. Out west, many public universities are on a quarter system, with three quarters for the academic year, and students take 3-4 classes per quarter. Everyone else is on a semester, where students take 5-6 classes per semester.<br /><br />Its important to note that subjects like music, foreign language, and the sciences typically map from a two-semester year long sequence to a three-quarter year long sequence. English, political science, mathematics and sometimes history will map from with each course covered in a semester to covered in a quarter. Almost universally, Calc I is differential calculus, Calc II is integral calc, and Calc 3 is sequences and series, regardless of whether the school goes by semesters or quarters. <br /><br />This means that some schools with outlier courses like Garfield's year-long AP American Gov't (which, if credit is granted, almost always maps to a single semester/quarter intro course at college... that class at the high school level is designed to be a semester long so....) will have to make some tough decisions.<br /><br />I'm of the opinion, however, that Ramona is overly optimistic of the number of choice classes most students will be able to take, and most of the commenters here are overly pessimistic on what a disaster this would be if implemented. Presuming the district does a decent job thinking through these issues and "getting it right" (that may be an unrealistic expectation, btw) the truth will lie somewhere in between.<br /><br />northwesternerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-13212163497329850382016-06-09T10:43:47.318-07:002016-06-09T10:43:47.318-07:00Hi Ramona - I'm not quite sure you've actu...Hi Ramona - I'm not quite sure you've actually addressed the specific question I had about my son's planned senior year schedule (which will include his 3rd year of a language and music). Is that going to be possible with a 3x5 schedule?Confused Dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10909762121470007620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6537981882036326812016-06-09T10:43:21.159-07:002016-06-09T10:43:21.159-07:00My kid took college credit classes and college pre...My kid took college credit classes and college prep classes at Hale. She still ended up with plenty of time for electives. The language class was the biggest barrier as it prevented her from taking some of the electives she wanted and ended up TA'ing multiple times which ended up being basically a study hall. Or she took PE again.<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50711964187575760072016-06-09T10:00:24.526-07:002016-06-09T10:00:24.526-07:00Ramona how does study skill class fit into this? I...Ramona how does study skill class fit into this? It seems like a net increase in time spent in special ed instead of gen ed, 1/5th of your education, instead of 1/6th. Year long study skills class is required by most high schools for SM1 in order to meet the minutes/week in ieps. I think this will require many more special ed teachers if ratios are maintained per current contract. Is that paid for in the increased cost?<br /><br />-sped parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43364550670839397142016-06-09T09:57:44.977-07:002016-06-09T09:57:44.977-07:00Anonymous ... re: Nathan Hale sked,
Yes we looked ...Anonymous ... re: Nathan Hale sked,<br />Yes we looked at their schedule. It's interesting and personally I really like the focus on health that it accommodates. But as implemented, it doesn't accommodate more classes of student choice, just more support for their approach to health and advisory/reading periods.<br /><br />Their schedule has a modified bloc, squeezing in 7 periods in 9th grade (maybe 10th, too. Don't have it in front of me and it's been a while.) It reverts to the straight 6 in later years. They also have a longer day, so more class time than other schools. That longer day would have to be negotiated and would come at a higher cost. This schedule is definitely a contender, though, and has its fans. <br /><br />It's front loaded, though, and personally I'd like to see kids have more flexibility in their junior and senior years. It doesn't particularly accommodate CTE, and that was also a consideration of the task force. They also seemed to rely on online credit retrieval, something that personally I worry about. <br /><br />I would prefer labs to support kids before they fail (ie, take algebra, if struggle take a lab, then continue with algebra. This supports students with a variety of learning needs. They can go 1-2 done and move on. They can slow it down, if needed.)<br /><br />An option might be creating a modified 6 period bloc across grades 9-12; that would also offer kids more options for electives. So would trimesters of 6 classes each. Class periods wouldn't be as long as a 3x5, and you would be cramming in more courses in the same amount of time, so it wouldn't alleviate some of the concerns expressed on this blog. <br /><br />Staff would also lose the longer prep time, and their case load would pile up. <br /><br />In this scenario, the allure of the 3x5 for me was the longer class period (a little more project focused), which also translates to a longer prep time for staff. I also liked only having teachers handle 4 classes at a time. I want to de-stress their lives. I think it will carry over to better relationships with students.<br /><br />Also, I like giving kids the option of taking courses that aren't just intensive ELA, math, science and social studies. In the schedules I looked at, I saw things like ELA in first and third trimester with an elective in between. I like giving kids the options to take the "interesting classes" that help them put the core into context and express themselves creatively. <br /><br />Or, giving them the option of speeding through the core early on, and then pursue a focused pathway.<br /><br />The heavy loaded core AP schedule is one option; personally, I'd like to see something that allows more electives. Kids are spending the SAME amount of time learning, they are just potentially learning a wider variety of things, without having to juggle as much homework at any one time.<br /><br />Why not take 9th Lit 1, photo composition, then 9th Lit 2? Or US Govt 1, statistics, US Govt 2? <br /><br />After years of listening to kids testify down in Olympia, my takeaway is that the AP-laden schedule is stressful for a lot and boring to many. Teen after teen plead: give us options; we like taking creative classes where we can apply what we learn, not just absorb facts. <br /><br />I think kids who really do prefer the AP approach could make it work, but they might be limited to 3 AP courses a year, because of logistics around pre-determined testing times. A lot kids in college work on a quarter system (usually skipping the summer/4th, so in fact a trimester), often taking 5 classes at a time. So this is not such a crazy scenario.<br /><br />No learning time is lost; time is applied differently. <br /><br />And yes, I saw that Eugene is reviewing the 5x3. So good timing in that we can see what folks there liked and didn't and apply it to what we end up offering here.<br />Ramona Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17269272676307680777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10526547216763684072016-06-09T09:44:29.358-07:002016-06-09T09:44:29.358-07:00@ Ramona H, re: your follow-up comments on 5x3 and...@ Ramona H, re: your follow-up comments on 5x3 and building relationships...<br /><br />Yes, advisory periods with mentor adults are possible with other schedules. These are not a feature unique to, or dependent upon, 3x5.<br /><br />You suggested accommodating teacher office hours during the school day. During the school day? Aren't they busy teaching then or doing prep? And aren't students in class? <br /><br />Your argument that the 5x3 schedule lets kids and staff focus on less during a particular trimester doesn't pencil out. Yes, kids may be able to focus on only 5 subjects instead of 6, BUT they will have a lot more work to do in each of those subjects. If there's x amount of work involved in covering a subject, when you significantly reduce the number of in-class minutes available for instruction and significantly reduce the number of evenings/weekends over which homework can be spread, that means more to be covered each day. If you previously read 3 novels in a 90-day English class, that's one per 30 days. If you have to read those 3 over 60 days instead, that's one every 20 days. If you wrote essays on each, you have less time to work on those, too. Assuming the same amount of work is required, you have to do more of it each day. <br /><br />The same goes for teachers. While you said "at any one time, staff covers 4 -- not 5 -- classes, giving them a fewer papers to grade during the trimester," that grading time is also condensed. For example, if each of their students writes 3 papers per term, that's 360 papers per term to grade under 3x5, or 450 per term under the current schedule. But since the length of the term is so much shorter, the 3x5 schedule would mean grading 6 papers per day (360/60), vs. only 5 per day under the current schedule (450/90). <br /><br />Now, this is all assumes classes will be significantly the same, covering comparable amounts of material and requiring comparable levels of student practice. If the idea is that classes will be instead turned into "lite" versions of the current offerings, then the task force's assumption of decreased workloads might be accurate. But what a shame that would be... <br /><br />DTM<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63589025669728001542016-06-09T09:39:06.808-07:002016-06-09T09:39:06.808-07:00Longer blocks of time supports deeper learning, cr...<i>Longer blocks of time supports deeper learning, critical thinking and project based learning.</i><br /><br />Time. With a 3x5, you're robbing Peter to pay Paul. A class period might be somewhat longer (maybe 10 minutes) than in a 2x6 schedule, but it comes at a great cost of fewer class days and less instructional time overall. Suppose a class needs 120 hours to cover the absolute bare minimum in content, and a teacher plans another 30 hours of project based activities to support that learning. That's actually doable within the current 2x6 schedule. In a 3x5 schedule, all the time would be devoted to covering the bare minimum - there would be no time left over to cover the added project based activities. How did Garfield create a project based AP Government class (which is supposed to make AP accessible to all students)? They took what was typically a one semester class and made it a two semester class. This talk about longer classes supporting deeper learning is pie in the sky thinking, because without lengthening the school day, the longer classes are only possible by having fewer classes. <br /><br />-simple mathAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53642545508021410342016-06-09T09:02:08.868-07:002016-06-09T09:02:08.868-07:00It is important to note that the state has provide...It is important to note that the state has provided $5M per year to pay for 24 credits, which, for the most part, will pay for the state's mandate.<br /><br />Counselor rations will decrease from 1:400- 1:250 students. Decreasing counselor:student ratios is a step in the right direction. Adding extra counselors will cost the district $1.9M. which is a worthwhile expenditure.<br /><br />24 credit option will allow students to take additional classes such as auto-mechanics, wood-shop etc. It appears we might be looking at creating career and technical paths, which, in my mind is a good thing.<br /><br />Struggling students get discouraged because class offerings center around remediation and getting them to pass required classes. Offering enjoyable classes, in my mind, is a good thing.<br /><br />Some believe that by creating 7 classes, students will experience stress due to juggling more classes. As is, we're seeing more and more students experience stress.<br /><br />Longer blocks of time supports deeper learning, critical thinking and project based learning.<br /><br />I'm confused as to what 24 credits will mean to AP classes and academies. I do worry that teachers have additional work to compensate changes, and required content won't be covered.<br /><br />I worry about AP offerings and the manner in which college entrance is impacted. 24 Creditsnoreply@blogger.com