tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post276672306826361590..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Tuesday Open ThreadMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90806350206155659852012-08-27T16:44:36.951-07:002012-08-27T16:44:36.951-07:00Linh-co: somewhere I read some commentary on thos...Linh-co: somewhere I read some commentary on those numbers. They are not great, but the author noted that they also include lots of "older" students returning for degrees or programs who have been out of school for years, and have to "retake" some classes (math for instance) to get back up to speed. If you are 50, and you haven't done algebra or trig since you were 16, you might have to retake it in order to tackle pre-calc and calc. I am not positive whether THOSE numbers are "in" the 17% or not -- but nothing on the slide indicated to me that somehow people had factored out non-SPS kids, or returning adults.Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80456834172169452592012-08-23T21:03:46.691-07:002012-08-23T21:03:46.691-07:00Linh-co,
That was a presentation by Dr. Enfield&#...Linh-co,<br /><br />That was a presentation by Dr. Enfield's management team to update the uber-leaders at City Hall. So, yes, I presume it was intended to present the stats on SPS.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36610775210115555942012-08-23T19:11:14.472-07:002012-08-23T19:11:14.472-07:00In looking at Mirmac's posting of the Pathways...In looking at Mirmac's posting of the Pathways to Careers Education Leadership Team powerpoint, I noticed a slide which says 17% of 9th graders complete high school, enter college and complete college on time. Another startling statistic on the same slide - 72% of students entering Seattle Community College District's students require at least one pre-college level class. Am I reading this correctly? And are the numbers cited for Seattle School District's students? Linh-Conoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57104603861171221392012-08-23T19:07:09.765-07:002012-08-23T19:07:09.765-07:00Why are people who enroll their kids in APP, one o...<i>Why are people who enroll their kids in APP, one of the least diverse programs (schools) in the city, usually by private testing, soooo worried about "diversity"? It seems diversity is ohhh so important - for everyone else to embrace. But for themselves..... it's really not a priority or a value.</i><br /><br />Sigh. Trotting out the same ol' tired, baseless arguments again? <br /><br />Valuing gifted education does not preclude valuing diversity. <br /><br />Valuing diversity does not preclude valuing gifted education. <br /><br />Enrolling in APP might indicate that a family values meeting their child's need for academic challenge more than they value meeting their child's need for "diversity" - or it might indicate that a family feels that they can meet their child's need for "diversity" outside of public schools better than they can meet their child's need for a gifted education outside of public schools.<br /><br /><i>/Nah, it probably just indicates they're elitist, racists seeking to hothouse their precious darlings away from undesirables.</i> Sigh.ArchStantonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10746480698492983438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1479070270838563742012-08-23T15:14:46.036-07:002012-08-23T15:14:46.036-07:00Actually, I thought ELB's comments were pretty...Actually, I thought ELB's comments were pretty apt. I have not heard a single word from observer that concedes, in any way, shape, or form, that there are highly gifted kids in our schools, that there is any benefit to them from devising a program of instruction that is accelerated and (in some cases) uses different teaching methods to present material in a more complex manner, that they have any social problems when isolated in small numbers in classes where they are laughed at or teased for being smart, or where no one gets their quirky sense of humor. Observer has never addressed whether, in fact, the testing methods (to say nothing of the tests, now that we use MAP for this) are inadequate to address the identification of the highly gifted kids whose needs APP is supposed to address. <br /><br />I agree that it is inappropriate to dismiss an opponent's arguments with some sweeping generalization that is badly misrepresents their nuanced positions on things -- but I have yet to see any nuance from observer, anything really other than that APP exists solely as an elitist way for self-absorbed, narcissistic upper class majority culture families to wall off their little darlings from the hoi polloi in all the other classes. <br /><br />I have no problem with being concerned and perturbed over problems in APP. I think it is too narrow. I agree that it needs to address minority inclusion issues. I think it needs to look at what happens to kids for whom 2 years of acceleration are STILL insufficient, and kids with strong abilities in just some areas. But instead, we have spent the last few years splitting programs, squeezing APP out of Lowell, denying them access to accelerated math beyond an arbitrarily set level, etc. etc. etc. Just like with other problems in the District, it is hard to find the time and resources to address the real, long-standing issues when we consistently have to divert time and effort to putting out the NEW fires that the District itself sets. Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57180064466919467362012-08-23T12:25:38.687-07:002012-08-23T12:25:38.687-07:00How is following the District policy, "gaming...How is following the District policy, "gaming the system?" Gaming the system implies a bending of the rules, but, like it or not, District policy allows for appeals. It's all spelled out clearly and applied equally.<br /><br />As it stands, APP has become mostly an acceleration of the same stuff every other student gets - EDM, CMP, Readers and Writers Workshop, and the same old science kits. It's like grade skipping without skipping a grade.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-39429191876958245832012-08-23T12:21:46.195-07:002012-08-23T12:21:46.195-07:00The District really needs to look into why many of...The District really needs to look into why many of the African American kids who qualify for APP choose not to make the move. I personally know 8 of them, 6 in middle school, 2 in high school. All of them qualified before MAP was introduced.<br /><br />Two are at K-8's and get accommodations there. One is at a SPS middle school where AA kids seem to score well, two went private, two stayed in Spectrum until they got to high school and could take AP classes, and one goes out of district. <br /><br />They have a range of reasons not to have gone with APP, but ALL of the parents were concerned with the lack of AA kids in APP and the persistant stories of prejudice in the program. When they found other options which also happened to be more diverse than APP, the choice was simple for them.<br /><br />The district needs to do much more than outreach. It MUST combat the image APP has among AA families. Maybe that can never improve, but to stop this Catch-22, they've got to try. <br /><br />Sometime reader Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29942275621274972422012-08-23T11:49:53.036-07:002012-08-23T11:49:53.036-07:00"What do you have against kids who are workin..."What do you have against kids who are working several years above grade level, who often don't have much in common with their general ed peers, and who are bored out of their minds with school?"<br /><br />That sounds alot like Charlie's post on "Why do you hate kids?"<br /><br />There are problems with gaming the system. It incenses some more than others. Observer can voice his/her opinion as much as anyone else.<br /><br />not incensed, but perturbedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7808427164194307042012-08-23T09:59:33.148-07:002012-08-23T09:59:33.148-07:00Observer, give it a rest. Your insistence that peo...Observer, give it a rest. Your insistence that people are buying their way into APP, and doing it to avoid diversity, is bizarre, unfounded and counterproductive. If you have a problem with the APP eligibility criteria, fight that. If you have solid evidence that there are people out there who doctor the results, let's hear it. If the percentage of kids who enter via private testing is inappropriately high, let's see it and then we start talking about how the district identifies APP-qualified kids. If your beef is with the lack of diversity in APP, let's talk about how the district can improve outreach or provide other assistance to minorities who almost qualify. Yes, APP is not perfect (trust me, there are many problems with APP besides this), and yes, there may be things the district can do to improve the situation. But your obnoxious accusations and insinuations just make you look bitter and mean-spirited. What do you have against kids who are working several years above grade level, who often don't have much in common with their general ed peers, and who are bored out of their minds with school? Why deny them the chance for education at their level? And what do you have against their parents, who are just trying to provide an appropriate education for these kids? It doesn't make any sense to me. <br /><br />ELBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54544334865214416872012-08-23T08:46:10.201-07:002012-08-23T08:46:10.201-07:00 The NSAP was not about north versus south parent... The NSAP was not about north versus south parent. I never attended one Board meeting or Board community meeting where I heard this argument come up. I heard plenty of questioning but not this line of argument. <br /><br />I was not really for it either. I knew the choice system allowed 90% of parents their first choice (which is huge for a choice system). I knew it would only make some happy and some unhappy. Of course, the inability for many parents, north and south, to know, with some degree of certainty, where they would end up loomed large for many parents throughout the city.<br /><br />Observer, the district will pay for private testing for free and reduced lunch kids who appeal their testing. That option is not just for people who can afford it. From what I understand, it usually costs between $300-400.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16665675618038152380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-12688217150202721342012-08-23T07:44:31.848-07:002012-08-23T07:44:31.848-07:00Why the bitterness, observer?
And this:
You'...Why the bitterness, observer?<br /><br />And this:<br /><br /><i>You'd have chosen to go to a myriad of different schools available to you with lots of diversity</i><br /><br />There is no choice of neighborhood schools. It's the neighborhood school, unless a student needs special services (which APP is considered). There's no transportation elsewhere. If you'd ask families what they're seeking most in a school, it's probably <i>an appropriate education</i>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57584354740761885472012-08-22T21:32:34.676-07:002012-08-22T21:32:34.676-07:00And how precisely do you know what APP families va...<i>And how precisely do you know what APP families value, "observer"? What gives you the right or knowledge to speak for the hundreds of APP families and their priorities? </i><br /><br />How much did you pay to get your kids tested into APP? ??? Come on. You can tell us! But it's worth it, right? It got your kids their segregated environments they so deserve. And that was important.<br /><br />If you really valued diversity - you wouldn't have paid a dime. You'd have chosen to go to a myriad of different schools available to you with lots of diversity. Instead, you assert "diversity" is something for OTHER people's kids. And isn't it a darn shame that under the evil new system, some other kids get the same segregated environment your kids enjoy? Oh, the injustice of it all!<br /><br />And yes. Those great sped kids over at Lowell! Aren't they just so sweet and special? Everytime we need an issue talking point - well, we can trot them out to the podium. Never mind that they NEVER got an inclusive academic moment at Lowell. No worry though, they added "diversity" to your experience.<br /><br /><br /><br />-observerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26577976994181464552012-08-22T20:42:59.374-07:002012-08-22T20:42:59.374-07:00Regarding bus transportation letters, I called yes...Regarding bus transportation letters, I called yesterday and I believe they were going out today, therefore arriving, hopefully, by the end of the week.<br /><br />-kittyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58380642461474286952012-08-22T17:27:06.754-07:002012-08-22T17:27:06.754-07:00I just want to re-ask Ben's question from yest...I just want to re-ask Ben's question from yesterday, since I am wondering as well - does anyone know when the bus transportation letters are going to be mailed out? I am trying to plan our crazy morning and afternoon schedule for next year, and need to know the bus times as soon as possible, for before and after school care purposes. <br /><br />TraceySTraceySnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40825379751383872892012-08-22T17:03:32.147-07:002012-08-22T17:03:32.147-07:00Many things hilarious here.
First, that a school ...Many things hilarious here.<br /><br />First, that a school without one african-american student is still considered "more diverse" than a NE school. 'nuff said.<br /><br />Second, this blog is a kick in the pants. Gotta shake those hands!<br /><br />http://teachbad.com/2012/08/22/its-official-were-out-of-ideas/<br /><br />depressed and laughing at the same time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49105208544296252912012-08-22T16:55:46.198-07:002012-08-22T16:55:46.198-07:00Hey Observer, I wonder what you're observing? ...Hey Observer, I wonder what you're observing? We left our "all-white", north-end neighborhood school for APP @ Lincoln. Ironically, there is WAY more diversity there than our old school! What do you have to say about that? Should we have left our neighborhood school in protest?<br /><br /><br />Sarah.<br /><br />Oh, and we had our kid privately tested since he missed the entrance by one point on the reading achievement test AKA MAP, but qualified everywhere else through the District testing. I'm pretty sure no one faked the numbers so my precious could get into APP.Sarahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90263214705208027702012-08-22T15:09:45.861-07:002012-08-22T15:09:45.861-07:00Skeptic and frustrated: I don't like the NSAP...Skeptic and frustrated: I don't like the NSAP, and never did. I think we gave up real school choice (and the kind of flexibility that would have helped further dispel the argument that charters are needed) for a mess of pottage -- greater certainty for some (as you point out, that certainty is only a good thing if what you are now guaranteed is something you actually WANT) -- with an illusion of stability. It is illusory because boundaries will always need to change in a system that "guarantees" admittance by address. Demographics are not uniform throughout the city; and as we have discovered (and should have known), people -- especially those who rent -- can guarantee themselves a new, better school by simply buying or renting in a different neighborhood. <br /><br />But I do agree that for those who lived far enough that they never had any clue what school they might get -- a system that guarantees any specific school might be seen as an improvement. The fact that this was done before improving south end schools, and that the "option" feature in high schools was broken right from the start and has been largely abandoned, and the fact that lack of transportation renders "choice" still more illusory for those without cars, or an available driver at both ends of the day -- well, those are just some of the reasons I dislike the NSAP and the way it was implemented. Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27289038861382009912012-08-22T14:44:09.008-07:002012-08-22T14:44:09.008-07:00I sympathize with previous comments about how the ...I sympathize with previous comments about how the NSAP has locked folks in reference school areas that are not high performing. However, overall the NSAP has had other benefits beyond potential transportation savings. Where before, unpredictability about schools could drive folks completely out of the system or discourage people from even buying a house if they had kids now you can choose a neighborhood and have some assurance about the school path that will result in. In the long run I think this is going to drive families with children to move/stay in Seattle. I just wish I had more than hope that concrete steps are being taken to improve quality in the lower performing schools.<br /><br />Ben<br /><br />Benjamin Leishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10974191081762367425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8696999005480255892012-08-22T13:54:36.178-07:002012-08-22T13:54:36.178-07:00Of course nobody expected NSAP would benefit our s...Of course nobody expected NSAP would benefit our southend kids! Northenders wanted us forced back into our struggling neighborhood schools so we'd have to "get involved" and make them better, lol !!! Separate but equal, right?<br /><br />-S'enderAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23527243521523670612012-08-22T12:52:25.384-07:002012-08-22T12:52:25.384-07:00I'm with Skeptic. Can anyone explain to me how...I'm with Skeptic. Can anyone explain to me how the NSAP has benefitted those of us in the southend, except as a chokehold to getting our kids into good high schools or middle schools?<br /><br />-frustrated.southmomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01511168251318900652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81654330751017457182012-08-22T12:50:03.612-07:002012-08-22T12:50:03.612-07:00mirmac1 asked "Then what's the deal about...mirmac1 asked "Then what's the deal about merit pay?" regarding Arne Duncan's tweet (@arneduncan - Teachers are the heart & soul of our education system)<br /><br />Of course the answer is that True Reformers believe wholeheartedly with the free market, and the free market puts a price on everything and values nothing - The hearts and souls of teachers, in this view, should be quantified then monetized: Those with hearts and souls that are more in line with the program, as demonstrated by the bits and bytes of "data," should, in the free market model, by paid more.<br /><br />Teachers' hearts and souls, in other words, should be guided by gold, and as it is "merit" based, some teachers' hearts and souls are worth more than others.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70613429197513452292012-08-22T12:49:05.396-07:002012-08-22T12:49:05.396-07:00mirmac1 asked "Then what's the deal about...mirmac1 asked "Then what's the deal about merit pay?" regarding Arne Duncan's tweet (@arneduncan - Teachers are the heart & soul of our education system)<br /><br />Of course the answer is that True Reformers believe wholeheartedly with the free market, and the free market puts a price on everything and values nothing - The hearts and souls of teachers, in this view, should be quantified then monetized: Those with hearts and souls that are more in line with the program, as demonstrated by the bits and bytes of "data," should, in the free market model, by paid more.<br /><br />Teachers' hearts and souls, in other words, should be guided by gold, and as it is "merit" based, some teachers' hearts and souls are worth more than others.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57879222117295981392012-08-22T11:35:24.784-07:002012-08-22T11:35:24.784-07:00Arne "Never met a reform he didn't like&q...Arne "Never met a reform he didn't like" Duncan tweeting love for teachers:<br /><br />@arneduncan <br />Some people are motivated by money or power or vanity. But teachers are uniquely driven by the desire to help others succeed. <br /><br />@arneduncan <br />Teachers are the heart & soul of our education system. <br /><br />Huh?! Then what's the deal about merit pay? He's a phony.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-58178862761729420732012-08-22T11:12:17.541-07:002012-08-22T11:12:17.541-07:00"I'd be interested to see the percentages..."I'd be interested to see the percentages of APP kids who enter via private vs. public testing. Is that available anywhere?"<br /><br />You could ask Bob Vaughn, via public disclosure, for this information.<br /><br />I am pretty appalled by those who would think that professional counselors would put their licenses and reputations on the line by changing scores so kids could get into Advanced Learning programs. <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16665675618038152380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31628434564772709342012-08-22T10:36:20.569-07:002012-08-22T10:36:20.569-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.com