tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post3128717291764013781..comments2024-03-28T23:38:22.511-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Downtown Seattle Association Has a Great Idea for Where to Put a SchoolMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger52125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23139711035066000592014-04-01T15:54:22.288-07:002014-04-01T15:54:22.288-07:00To Charlie's question, the Cornish buildings a...To Charlie's question, the Cornish buildings are on lots that are going to be developed (by Amazon, if I recall correctly).Katenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90743727913209668592014-04-01T13:24:48.666-07:002014-04-01T13:24:48.666-07:00What will be the fate of the two former hotels tha...What will be the fate of the two former hotels that Cornish is now using as residence halls after Cornish builds their new tower?<br /><br />Have they already been sold?<br /><br />Is there any other land between Jackson and Mercer that could soon be for sale?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73290033290366755292014-04-01T11:32:21.111-07:002014-04-01T11:32:21.111-07:00It would be foolish not to look at that location f...It would be foolish not to look at that location for a possible school, even with the cost. Especially if the Downtown Seattle Association and other orgs might be willing to help with some funding.<br /><br />The question should not be either-or with regard to this, University Hights, Ft Lawton and other sites. If Kellie's numbers elsewhere are correct, Seattle will need seats for 13,000 more students in the next 10 years. If we have 5000-kid cohorts in K+1, and they remain in SPS till high-school, we will need capacity for 6,400 additional HS students in approx. 10 years, and half that number in 4-5 years. We will need every building we can get.<br /><br />The federal building location would be a great place for the World School or for a STEM-oriented HS program. <br /><br />I wonder how well it would work as a K-5 or K-8. For kids living in the downtown core it would be great. Would it work to try to bring school-busses in from other areas into downtown traffic? Would parents who worked downtown take their kids in on public transit they way they do with downtown daycares? Will parents stay in downtown condo's when their kids get older (I have heard that in Vancouver, parents tend to stay in downtown high-rises until their kids are about 8-10, then move out for larger digs).<br /><br />It would not be a great place for Pinehurst/IH due to the lack of green space - we are already working on a native plant / indegenous foods garden and outdoor spaces will be an important part of the curriculum. <br /><br />Either way SPS is going to need all the space we can get. Ragweedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491896585801927302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-63205507285319937782014-04-01T10:01:55.605-07:002014-04-01T10:01:55.605-07:00I'm also curious about Magnusson Park (former ...I'm also curious about Magnusson Park (former Sand Point Naval Air Station). Has there been any effort to site a school there? If so, what was the outcome? If not, why not?TechyMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04650916001250022778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23581197765668869042014-04-01T09:51:30.930-07:002014-04-01T09:51:30.930-07:00Here's a question for Joe, if he comes back (p...Here's a question for Joe, if he comes back (please come back!)<br /><br />Does anyone look at, think, talk, etc about the site at Discovery Park? <br /><br />The feds have put a fancy VA treatment center on the upper lot, but I think it's something very limited like chemo appointments - it's not a hospital or full-time facility, I believe (but it's beautiful).<br /><br />The lower buildings and area - and it's a BIG area - are the ones the city controls, I believe. I've heard a plan for mixed income housing, I've heard fancy housing, I've heard very dense housing - I've heard Magnolia doesn't want any of those and it's all stalled. I don't know any realities. <br /><br />The one reality I know is that it's a big lot, and if the city wants to partner w/SPS, this is a great site to start. <br /><br />Might actually be a better location than Lincoln for a new HS, I think, b/c has fields (Magnolia would like more fields) and can be used for QA, Magnolia, downtown - transit to downtown is good - and some sort of option draw to draw off the other neighborhood schools north, maybe. <br /><br />The rapid ride line goes all the way to west Seattle - so it could easily be drawn to give preference to everyone along rapid ride. <br /><br />Has SPS started to explore Discovery Park area with city at all? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-57603104216389487652014-03-31T20:58:45.956-07:002014-03-31T20:58:45.956-07:00Okay, I read the document on this issue and that&#...Okay, I read the document on this issue and that's not what I read. I will put it up tomorrow and everyone can have a look. But yes, I think the district could put in an letter of interest.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23712879656079011512014-03-31T19:22:14.446-07:002014-03-31T19:22:14.446-07:00Yes, thank you Joe.Yes, thank you Joe.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89609080763890560272014-03-31T18:38:43.691-07:002014-03-31T18:38:43.691-07:00If more people downtown were like Joe Wolf, we wou...If more people downtown were like Joe Wolf, we would have a different school district.<br /><br />The fact that the guy comments on this blog using his name is amazing enough. The fact that he speaks directly and candidly is almost unreal.<br /><br />He is loyal to his co-workers without being a pawn. You can tell he actually cares about doing a good job.<br /><br />I want to clone the guy.<br /><br />--enough alreadyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-87814616977825628842014-03-31T17:46:08.329-07:002014-03-31T17:46:08.329-07:00The City's Letter of Interest includes "P...The City's Letter of Interest includes "Preschool" and "Public School" as potential uses. As Flip described the process to me and his other reports, the Feds have to fully consider and reject the two agency- use-specific applicants before they can even have an official conversation with the City and SPS. That process will take 12-18 months.<br /><br />That's what I know. If you have questions around this please contact Flip directly (info. in the dirrectory at the "front" of the bloJoe Wolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747791661117554332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52724649149480597122014-03-31T16:51:35.051-07:002014-03-31T16:51:35.051-07:00First, I cannot say what information Dr. Herndon h...First, I cannot say what information Dr. Herndon has or doesn't have. I do think that simply investing the time in a thorough walk-thru (like with Moss-Adams) is worth it.<br /><br />As to why Dr. Herndon would say it's not possible, here's a couple of thoughts.<br /><br />One, the district didn't think this up themselves. Truly. Anything that Facilities doesn't think up on their own, they are very wary of.<br /><br />Two, too much on their plate. I get that (and I have criticized their ability in being able to cover all the moving pieces) but this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. <br /><br />My question is = what could it hurt?<br /><br />I put this to the Board but, of course, no answer.<br /><br />Just like AL, most of them have little real interest or knowledge about facilities so they will just pivot off whatever staff says.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75056428646307748502014-03-31T14:15:15.368-07:002014-03-31T14:15:15.368-07:00The more I look at this location, yes, I can see w...The more I look at this location, yes, I can see why this would NOT be a deal to walk away from, so I'm wondering what information causes Flip Herndon to say this site isn't possible. As I said before, has SPS ever made a beneficial real estate deal? Just saying that, I'm thinking the MLK FAME give away. Strange how More 4 Mann had to have the Mann School when there's lots of community space at FAME or other locations. Maria Goodloe-Johnson and Michael DeBell and Ron English made MLK deal possible. So what now? How do we encourage the district to make a good deal based on solid numbers? It seems everyone but SPS is making deals, one way or another.<br /><br />WestsideAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46978140650656458602014-03-31T14:04:55.103-07:002014-03-31T14:04:55.103-07:00Flip Herndon is quoted in the Times story saying &...Flip Herndon is quoted in the Times story saying "Right now we’re not devoting a lot of time and resources to it, just because ... if it’s not even a possibility, it’s not even a possibility.” <br /><br />Does anyone know his reason for saying it's not a possibility? <br /><br />Westside<br /> <br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1990392926838334322014-03-31T13:42:34.511-07:002014-03-31T13:42:34.511-07:00We took many properties on my projects. It's ...We took many properties on my projects. It's doable. And making Ron English busy would mean he'd have less time to beat down SpEd families.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22929914554299106802014-03-31T13:26:20.892-07:002014-03-31T13:26:20.892-07:00Oh I am 100% with you on the necessity of taking b...Oh I am 100% with you on the necessity of taking back leased buildings regardless of ugliness. We should be in process on Lake City right now, really. Maybe district staff can move in there, and cascade, Pinehurst, the the na program can have shiny, beautiful JSCEE. <br /><br />I am very discouraged at poorly the district has done it so far given both how dire the space need is and how well within their rights they were both recent times, and think public opinion is not especially swayed by portable farms (there are already so many, but people are just used to them, think it's whining when parents complain). But we need the space. So we should take back leased buildings.<br /><br />I just also know that comparing enforcing lease terms with eminent domain/taking of a property owned by someone else is apples to...something extremely huge and un-apple like. Apples to pianos. And leased buildings on their own are not enough. So we need to look at this downtown property too, which may turn out to have prohibitive construction issues, but does NOT have the same litigation issues as u heights.<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45757676643517688712014-03-31T13:05:41.641-07:002014-03-31T13:05:41.641-07:00Well, I as noted in my Board agenda wrap-up, the d...Well, I as noted in my Board agenda wrap-up, the district will be buying upwards of 22-28 more portables.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69123058779244556602014-03-31T12:53:52.999-07:002014-03-31T12:53:52.999-07:00The process may be ugly but necessary. Current te...The process may be ugly but necessary. Current tenants and property owners would have a difficult time swaying public opinion when the city's kids are crammed into portable farms.<br /><br />Genessee Hill is a travesty. mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32865709168049383852014-03-31T11:27:02.693-07:002014-03-31T11:27:02.693-07:00Federal building or no, here is a front page NYT a...Federal building or no, here is a front page NYT article today that shows where we are headed: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/01/nyregion/pushing-to-rid-new-york-city-of-classroom-trailers-even-as-enrollments-grow.html?hp&_r=0" rel="nofollow">Portables That Came to Stay</a>.<br /><br />Rat-infested, falling apart portables that landed in NYC with the kid population booming are now permanent, despite promises from politicians. Sound familiar?<br /><br />EdVoterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-51722068533464397942014-03-31T11:17:20.945-07:002014-03-31T11:17:20.945-07:00I work in a field where I know a thing or two abou...I work in a field where I know a thing or two about litigation. Schools don't get the same priority use in eminent domain projects as in tenancy disputes(especially since u heights was sold fairly recently, was it not? 2009, is that right?And has been the subject of levy- citizen voted money for improvement for community use) - it is true that they should be able to extremely easily enforce lease agreement terms when they need the schools. Like taking back keys- this is why you lease instead of sell, so you can easily get the space back. But see: Mann and NW Center, even that process was ugly. An eminent domain lawsuit would be very, very expensive and drawn out. We should take back all our leased buildings(and consider much less friendly lease terms and tighter contracts going forward), but even that's not enough space. The downtown building could help with that.<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48612127260020391762014-03-31T11:00:57.778-07:002014-03-31T11:00:57.778-07:00asbestos? So does W-P.
Auditorium? Apparently no...asbestos? So does W-P.<br /><br />Auditorium? Apparently no one cares in the district so no problem.<br /><br />Yes, there are 29 underground parking spaces (yes, I checked).<br /><br />Again, I ask - why is considering this bad? How does it slow anything else down or take money away? (I love that the Genesee Hill project is $2M over budget but no one here is upset about that.) <br /><br />Discovery Park might be good for a high school but that's not what DSA is talking about here.<br /><br />Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65983138543686322132014-03-31T10:20:43.143-07:002014-03-31T10:20:43.143-07:00sleeper, I am a construction professional and know...sleeper, I am a construction professional and know my asbestos. I say U Heights as an example. Tenants will have to relocate. Schools have priority use. And the spaces in a former school will need little reconfiguration that will expose insulation with asbestos.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21124289343878607272014-03-31T10:03:19.948-07:002014-03-31T10:03:19.948-07:00DISCOVERY PARK FORT LAWTON PROPERTY! WAY BETTER SI...DISCOVERY PARK FORT LAWTON PROPERTY! WAY BETTER SITUATION than a white elephant downtown (although I think it's not mutually exclusive and SPS should think about both simultaneously, but trying to do two out-of-box things might make heads explode, just saying).<br /><br />That is an idea I've had for a long time - it would, I think, be a win-win b/c I understand Magnolia doesn't want a lot more housing - the schools there now certainly can't support a lot more housing (and it's not going to end up low density million dollar homes on city land - don't know who thinks that - it will be high density mixed use, which will break those two schools from a capacity standpoint too, and hugely impact Ballard HS). <br /><br />So - yes, make a new HS complex at Discovery park. Lots of transportation along 15th, and SPS could run a short shuttle from rapid ride lines on the arterial round trip to and from school in the am and pm - it would be very cost effective to have shuttle school bus running that route. City could install bike lockers at the base of Magnolia, some HS kids would come on rapid ride and bike up to Discovery Park - nice bike route separated from arterial.<br /><br />The only population I think the fed building could work for is ... World School (older kids don't need playground, can use public transportation, centrally located, and TT Minor WILL BE NEEDED for elem and is much better for Elem. ... why would SPS put HS in TT Minor building and elem. kids in a downtown office bldg.? Just saying). Possibly work for Cascade, but not for any preschools or full-time elem, in my opinion. <br /><br />Signed: Discovery Park Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48161952655223602192014-03-31T10:01:13.344-07:002014-03-31T10:01:13.344-07:00Purchasing and renovating U Heights would easily c...Purchasing and renovating U Heights would easily cost 40 million dollars and take 10 years. There's a school for autistic children in there, as well as a subsidized daycare, and an active community group with funds for extensive litigation and a decent case against emininent domain. Plus there is asbestos in the basement ceilings, I believe, if asbestos is the deciding factor.<br /><br />What I like about the downtown location is that it is a lot of space and in a central (flexible) area. I have been in that building many times, and it is a lot nicer than many schools currently in use. What the downtown interest group is calling for doesn't really come into it, but I also don't care if they get what they want when the district gets something good- win win, great. <br /><br />I think the above posters' notions about asbestos are somewhat outdated, from when asbestos litigation still had less certain parameters. There are remediation steps to take now, guidelines to follow, which keep people safe and entities safe from litigation. It was scary in the 80's, though. It's also up for grabs, unlike the buildings we already sold of. I also agree with above posters that it's not as suitable for use by the homeless coalition because that location is saturated. What homelessness in this city needs is money and more services outlying. What the schools need is space. This is space.<br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-61603445229338931092014-03-31T09:56:38.273-07:002014-03-31T09:56:38.273-07:00Does the Downtown Seattle Association want concent...Does the Downtown Seattle Association want concentrated homeless services going in at 2nd and Spring? Really doubt it. But can they say that and look like good guys? No. Voila! A big push for a school in the building.<br /><br />Until we get crackin on planning and funding enormous space challenges already existing elsewhere in SPS, sinking money into that building or any other building downtown needs to be second priority.<br /><br />We should move toward a downtown facility, but not at the cost of it jumping the line of extremely urgent projects elsewhere in SPS.<br /><br />DistrictWatcherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31946666496815268892014-03-31T09:17:57.812-07:002014-03-31T09:17:57.812-07:00You pay fair market value in condemnation. Purcha...You pay fair market value in condemnation. Purchasing and renovating a school like, say, U Heights would not be $40M. Many of these former schools retain their original layouts.<br /><br />This office building would require considerable renovation and remediation. Lead paint? Probably. Seismic retrofit? Yes. New partitions, power, network, plumbing, cafeteria. There's no gym, parking, music rooms or auditorium.<br /><br />Finally, fulfilling downtown business interests is really low on my list.mirmac1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10183460709639638172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15612700868874963222014-03-31T00:33:47.749-07:002014-03-31T00:33:47.749-07:00Personally, I hope they take a look at it. 2nd an...Personally, I hope they take a look at it. 2nd and Spring is a location that has a lot going for it; asbestos exists in many old buildings and is often not problemmatic unless and until it is friable -- so, yes, if they are doing major demolition or rehab inside, or if the asbestos is somewhere where it is crumbling or damaged, it will cost extra to do it in compliance with asbestos rules; Otherwise, it is no worse than asbestos in any other building. <br />As for other sites -- first, eminent domain is expensive (and some of those buildings were surplussed initiall because of high renovation costs, coupled with declining enrollment). I don't think you are getting U Heights back at any kind of a bargain price! Seconed--none of them are downtown. The OTHER thing (besides just space) is trying to fulfill the call by downtown business interests and residents for a downtown school. 2nd and Spring would do that. It has great bus service; light rail goes within about 2 blocks. You could come up with some amazing programs in law and justice (with the courthouses and city hall just a few blocks away) and marine science, with the aquarium within walking distance. Janhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09923777229601243321noreply@blogger.com