tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post3236844631184790660..comments2024-03-28T23:38:22.511-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: More Program Decisions through Less Choice?Melissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger74125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68848643669715206042007-07-11T20:54:00.000-07:002007-07-11T20:54:00.000-07:00I'm with Roy; parents have some role in principal ...I'm with Roy; parents have some role in principal selection (although not always) and the superintendent decides. It is not always a decision parents support.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-52057067215991980322007-07-11T17:39:00.000-07:002007-07-11T17:39:00.000-07:00When these vacancies come up, surely the majority ...<I>When these vacancies come up, surely the majority of the school will have some say in the hiring of the new principal, and I'm sure the district will consider which principal would be a good match for the schools culture when they make a selection.</I><BR/><BR/>I have heard rumblings that the AAA community (to cite just one example) might not agree with this assessment.Roy Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16120444973792909383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84050943635471810542007-07-11T17:28:00.000-07:002007-07-11T17:28:00.000-07:00Charlie, you say the principal determines the cult...Charlie, you say the principal determines the culture of the school, and I do agree with you on this. However, principals are moved frequently by the district, and voluntarily. They also retire, and move into central admin. When these vacancies come up, surely the majority of the school will have some say in the hiring of the new principal, and I'm sure the district will consider which principal would be a good match for the schools culture when they make a selection. Things do change. I agree with you that it takes a lot, and it is slow, but things do change to suit the majority, eventually.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-34717432212260503342007-07-11T17:25:00.000-07:002007-07-11T17:25:00.000-07:00I think one very positive thing the district did t...I think one very positive thing the district did to attract families to Denny was to put Jeff Clark there as principal. He is very popular among families and has a proven track record at Salmon Bay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54448541701442499462007-07-11T15:01:00.000-07:002007-07-11T15:01:00.000-07:00To often when the District wants people to do some...To often when the District wants people to do something they try to push them into it. It would be far more positive and effective if instead they tried to pull them into it.<BR/><BR/>Example: The District wanted to increase participation in the Spectrum program at Denny. Their action: they discontinued yellow bus service for West Seattle Spectrum students to Washington.<BR/><BR/>This was typical in a number of ways. First, it wasn't effective. The Spectrum program at Denny has not grown. Second, it didn't change anything; the West Seattle Spectrum students can still ride the yellow bus to Washington. It's the same bus that the APP students ride; the Spectrum students ride it on a "space available" basis. There is, of course, always space available.<BR/><BR/>The only net result was the further alienation of the Spectrum community.<BR/><BR/>Why, if the District wanted to increase participation at Denny-Spectrum, didn't they try any sort of positive recruitment? An even better question, however, is why is the West Seattle middle school Spectrum program located at Denny instead of Madison?Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6702962693407880392007-07-11T14:48:00.000-07:002007-07-11T14:48:00.000-07:00Implicit in the post by Anonymous 6:33 is that the...Implicit in the post by Anonymous 6:33 is that there exists some means by which families can be forced to send their children to particular schools, thus creating the critical mass of involved parents and well-prepared students that would make all the neighborhood schools better.<BR/><BR/>This simply won't work. No matter what system is used, if a school is bad enough, families will find ways to avoid it, even if in the extreme case, by leaving the district.<BR/><BR/>Parental involvement can and should be an important component of successful schools. However, parental involvement alone will not fix a broken school, as has been pointed out by so many posters here.Roy Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16120444973792909383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42754421799031700272007-07-11T14:29:00.000-07:002007-07-11T14:29:00.000-07:00anonymous at 9:43 wrote:"But, after 4 or 5 years o...anonymous at 9:43 wrote:<BR/>"<I>But, after 4 or 5 years of all of the kindergarten classes being 1/2 white, the white families would be in or close to the majority at the school, and would then naturally have a lot of influence of the culture of the school. That's the way it works.</I>"<BR/><BR/>That is what happened. For the past several years in a row a significant portion, up to a half, of the incoming kindergarten classes were children from local White and Asian families. Yet despite their numbers and involvement, they were not able to influence the culture of the school. The simple fact is that it does not work the way that you suppose.<BR/><BR/>This isn't some theoretical model, this is a real school right here in Seattle.<BR/><BR/>I know people who are trying to do this work and none of it happens naturally or automatically. Do you know how long and hard some Mount Baker families have been working to improve John Muir? Talk to Pat Murakami some time about what it takes to change a school.<BR/><BR/><BR/>anonymous at 9:43 wrote:<BR/>"<I>If the majority of families in APP did not want a strong music program, and opted for a more full elective offering, my guess is the school would eventually have to conform.</I>"<BR/><BR/>Your guess would be wrong. There are over 1,000 students at Washington. About 400 of them are active in the instrumental music program. Shouldn't there be worthwhile electives for the other 600? These kids have to be in some class doing something with a teacher's supervision. The school does not offer academically challenging electives because those classes have students from all programs at the school: APP, Spectrum, general education, special education, and bilingual education. The administration and staff don't believe they can differentiate instruction in these classes to serve all of those populations, so the electives are without academic rigor.<BR/><BR/>I referred to your conjectures as "conjectures" because that is what they were. <BR/><BR/>Please re-read your post of 6:33:<BR/><BR/>"<I><B>What if</B> you couldn't send you child to Lafayette for Spectrum? <B>What if</B> you had to go to your in cluster Spectrum school? <B>What if</B> all of the other involved families in you neighborhood also had to go to Lafayette, and couldn't simply move out of cluster? <B>What if</B> for many many years before your children went to this school, most of the other families in your neighborhood chose this school? The school <B>would be</B> a very different school, no? The culture, discipline issue etc., <B>would all be different</B>, no? They <B>would have to be</B>, because the school would reflect what the parents attending it wanted, no?</I>"<BR/><BR/>Statements that begin "what if" and conclude "would be" are conjecture, not facts.<BR/><BR/>They were not actual situations but imagined ones. I referred to them as fantasies because they were not reality-based. They did not reflect the bulk of actual experiences.<BR/><BR/>I am sincerely interested in sharing opinions, but please recognize that when your opinions are entered into the marketplace of ideas, they may be challenged. I am ready to have my opinions challenged and I am ready to change my opinions in the face of contrary evidence or compelling logic.<BR/><BR/>Your opinion does not appear to be built on fact or sound logic, but on a belief in the goodness and fairness of people in positions of authority. I fear this belief is not often substantiated.<BR/><BR/>If it helps any, I apologize for the words "fantasy conjecture" as I can see that they were unduly insulting. I should have taken the time to select less dismissive language. A better choice would have been "optimistic assumptions".<BR/><BR/>As for <B>anonymous at 9:51</B>, I love your rhetorical device of assigning to me an absurd perspective that I would never endorse and then ridiculing me as if I had proposed it. It would be funny if it were not so inept. What do you propose, killing all children born to families north of the Ship Canal? I am sorry to disappoint you, but that is both cruel and illegal.<BR/><BR/>I don't think it is a lot to expect for a middle school to offer academically challenging electives that all of the school's students might find broadening, enjoyable, and educational. Possibilities include journalism, media, video production, web design, a third year of world language classes, creative writing, a third year of art classes, drama, current events, drafting, engineering, a class focused on a specific period of history such as Ancient Egypt, or a class focused on a specific range of literature such as American Novels. There are LOTS of possibilities, many of them available at other Seattle middle schools.<BR/><BR/>I don't mean to take this thread off on another tangent about middle school electives. The point is that schools do not automatically change to reflect the interests, priorities, or preferences of the students (and families) enrolled. If a school is not an appropriate choice for a student, enrolling the student there - or even a number of similar students there - will not transform the school into one which is appropriate.<BR/><BR/>Schools can change, but only with a tremendous amount of effort and, even then, only with the support of the principal and staff. The principal and staff rarely support change because they are generally the architects of the school's current status and culture.<BR/><BR/>There is a dangerous set of optimisitc assumptions in wide circulation that presumes that schools change to reflect changing populations. There is no evidence to support this assumption. There is, in fact, a great deal of evidence to dispute it.<BR/><BR/>If we were to make decisions about the design of the student assignment plan based on these faulty assumptions, we would build failure into the system.<BR/><BR/>Moreover, this set of assumptions tends to misplace blame for low performing schools on families who are not part of that school's community. All of the people at the school got together and agreed to blame the people who aren't there.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67241890519871309342007-07-11T11:58:00.000-07:002007-07-11T11:58:00.000-07:00Adding onto Roy's comment...Will the middle school...Adding onto Roy's comment...<BR/><BR/>Will the middle school portion of a K8 only be fed by the elementary portion of that school, or also by nearby elementary schools? <BR/><BR/>For example, is it possible that McGilvra would be a feeder for 6-8 at Madrona? It is the closest school offering 6-8.<BR/><BR/>I've been involved in a few corporate mergers and re-organizations, and merging those two school cultures sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53056228451778236982007-07-11T11:40:00.000-07:002007-07-11T11:40:00.000-07:0098112's comments about K-8 vs. K-5 raise some inte...<B>98112</B>'s comments about K-8 vs. K-5 raise some interesting questions that I have not heard seriously addressed by anybody. This could be a topic for a separate thread, as I think that the subject of reference area K-8s and how they fit into the school system as a whole needs to be addressed more thoroughly.<BR/><BR/>Questions that are created by reference area K-8s:<BR/><BR/>Are they going to use the same assignment preferences as other reference area schools? What if a family wants access to a K-8 but lives in the reference area of a K-5? Will there be out-of-reference-area set aside seats for the K-8? Conversely, if a family does not want their elementary school child in a building with 6-8th graders, but live in the reference area for a K-8, how easy will it be to opt out as moves are made to limit choice somewhat?<BR/><BR/>Is the middle school portion of a reference area K-8 going to have more students per grade level or the same number? If the same number, then will the middle school portion be considered equivalent to comprehensive middle schools? Will the resources be put into reference area K-8s to upgrade and add facilities so that they have the same sorts of resources that are available at our existing comprehensive middle schools?<BR/><BR/>If there are more students per grade level in the middle school portion than the elementary school portion, then how exactly is that different from an elementary school and otherwise ordinary middle school that share a building and campus? What are the advantages and disadvantages of such an arrangement?<BR/><BR/>If feeder patterns from elementary to middle school are adopted, how will reference area K-8s fit in? Will the default middle school for a student enrolled in the elementary portion of a reference area K-8 be that school? What if an elementary student or their family want a comprehensive middle school - are they last in line to get that choice, since everybody else will have preference via feeder patterns?<BR/><BR/>If clusters are made smaller, will there be an effort made to create a reference area K-8 in every cluster? If not, will transportation be provided to an out of cluster K-8 if there is not one available in cluster?<BR/><BR/>What are the advantages (real or perceived) of having K-8 schools in the first place? Why is the K-8 idea so popular right now? What are parents and families expecting that they will get out of it?Roy Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16120444973792909383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89723566790159523222007-07-11T11:18:00.000-07:002007-07-11T11:18:00.000-07:0098112 writes: Class of 75 suggests that reference ...<B>98112</B> writes: <I>Class of 75 suggests that reference area boundaries be redrawn anually to accomodate changing populations. This does make some sense, but it significantly reduces predicatability for those of us who live near 2 schools. I could see my house moving from one reference area to another every year or two. I'm not sure what that would do to my middle school choices.</I><BR/><BR/>I think that for most families, the only year that the reference area really should matter is the year the oldest child is entering kindergarten. After that, sibling tiebreakers and the fact that one is automatically enrolled at the same school year after year make reference areas less important. As part of resizing reference areas annually, I would propose that the district should commit to preserving the ability of families to remain in one school throughout the elementary years.<BR/><BR/>As for middle school assignment, I think the feeder pattern should be based on the school actually attended for elementary, NOT where the child resides. So, once you know where you are for elementary school, then you know where your default middle school would be.Roy Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16120444973792909383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-19890806911162527002007-07-11T10:54:00.000-07:002007-07-11T10:54:00.000-07:00I'm going to use my own situation as an example. ...I'm going to use my own situation as an example. I'm not saying that the district should optimize for me, but I suspect that there are many others in similar situations, and that it may be a useful example.<BR/><BR/>I live in the old MLK reference area. I'm about the same distance from Madrona as I am from McGilvra. McGilvra is currently my reference school, but that could change with the new boundaries.<BR/><BR/>My child is 3 years old. She is already starting to read. Both my husband and I have IQs above 140, and she shows signs of being similar. I went to private school, and that experience is not what I want for my child. I really, really want to send her to public school.<BR/><BR/>Point 1: Acceptable program.<BR/>The current program at Madrona would not serve her needs. The program at McGilvra might. APP or Spectrum might, but neither offers Kindergarten (why is that?). I have also heard that the Spectrum program at Leschi isn't very effective, and their test scores surpise me (how do a large % of Specrrum students fail the WASL? I don't get that). Montessori might work, and I was involved in the Montessori program at MLK. I don't know if that's still running at T.T. Minor. Bagley and Graham Hill are too far away (for both me and the district). I don't know enough about the general ed program at TT Minor to know if it would work, but it's unlikely to be my reference school anyway.<BR/><BR/>Unless Madrona's program has changed *a lot* 2 years from now, I will not enroll my daughter there. <BR/><BR/>If I don't have a choice of another school for K, I will go private. I don't want to go private, and I might look at APP after a few years, but I might also decide that the transition is not worth it.<BR/><BR/>Point 2: frequent right-sizing of reference areas<BR/><BR/>Class of 75 suggests that reference area boundaries be redrawn anually to accomodate changing populations. This does make some sense, but it significantly reduces predicatability for those of us who live near 2 schools. I could see my house moving from one reference area to another every year or two. I'm not sure what that would do to my middle school choices. <BR/><BR/>Point 3: K-8 vs K-5<BR/><BR/>Madrona is a K-8. McGilvra is a K-5. If Madrona is my reference elementary school, does that mean that it's also my reference middle school? What if I want a comprehensive middle school? What if my house is in the McGilvra reference area when my kid starts K, and in the Madrona reference area when she starts 6th grade? Will I have the choice of sending her to Washington with the rest of her class, or will she have to go to Madrona? <BR/><BR/>I guess my point is that I'm not at all convinced that the proposed assignment plan improves predicatability when you start looking at the details for a real address and the real schools near that address.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-42758427786900919352007-07-11T10:23:00.000-07:002007-07-11T10:23:00.000-07:00anonymous 9:43 said: Charlie, as you say 1/2 of th...<B>anonymous 9:43</B> said: <I>Charlie, as you say 1/2 of the kindergarten class at Madrona was white. The rest of the school was almost all black, so the 20 or 30 kids in the kindergarten were still in the minority, the rest of the school is primarily lower income black families. Of course those 20 or 30 white families are not going to change the culture of the school, and they shouldn't. They are the minority.</I><BR/><BR/>I am just imagining the uproar that this sort of statement would trigger if the ethnic groups cited in this example were reversed.<BR/><BR/>Is it okay for minorities to not have a voice, and to have their concerns ignored because they are not the majority? What happens if I take this sort of thought process to its logical conclusion?Roy Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16120444973792909383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-84221691876615610852007-07-11T09:51:00.000-07:002007-07-11T09:51:00.000-07:00Charlie-What do you propose Washington do facilita...Charlie-<BR/><BR/>What do you propose Washington do facilitate offering the "academically challenging electives" you want for your APP child? Drop its general education program, force the nieghborhood kids out and retask those teachers and space for providing electives to the APP and Spectrum students? Boot out the bilingual program so that for 1/3 of the day there is string music? I am sorry, but this is miopic thinking that focuses on one population's need to the exclusion of others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80752626206992929772007-07-11T09:43:00.000-07:002007-07-11T09:43:00.000-07:00Charlie, as you say 1/2 of the kindergarten class ...Charlie, as you say 1/2 of the kindergarten class at Madrona was white. The rest of the school was almost all black, so the 20 or 30 kids in the kindergarten were still in the minority, the rest of the school is primarily lower income black families. Of course those 20 or 30 white families are not going to change the culture of the school, and they shouldn't. They are the minority. But, after 4 or 5 years of all of the kindergarten classes being 1/2 white, the white families would be in or close to the majority at the school, and would then naturally have a lot of influence of the culture of the school. That's the way it works. As for the principal wanting only black families to volunteer, it sounds like a last ditch desperate attempt to prevent the school from gentrifying. It is fruitless.<BR/><BR/>As for the APP/music issue, I have to ask because I don't know. What percentage of families are involved with the music program? Is it an overwhelming majority? I know at Eckstein I hear parents who don't have kids interested in music complain because Eckstein too has few elective offerings. They are the minority though. The school is giving it's community what they want. The community as a whole wants the school to have a strong, cometetive music program, and that's what they got. If the school didn't put so much effort and resources into the music program, and it was one of many electives, it would be an average music program not an award winning program like Washington/Garfield/Eckstein/Roosevelt have. If the majority of families in APP did not want a strong music rogram, and opted for a more full elective offering, my guess is the school would eventually have to conform. <BR/><BR/>Please don't call my opinions "fantasy conjectures". This blog is about sharing our opinions. I disagree with your theory on neighborhood schools, but I refrain from insulting it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23044163355531668962007-07-11T08:21:00.000-07:002007-07-11T08:21:00.000-07:00Charlie, I think you underestimate how many parent...Charlie, I think you underestimate how many parents regard a school as being inadequate if it is not "the number one school" by whatever criteria they use to evaluate schools. Oftentimes, it seems this criteria is centered about how impressed their friends will be about the school that they are sending their children to.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-23428902785782020182007-07-11T08:20:00.000-07:002007-07-11T08:20:00.000-07:00No.I simply see no evidence to support the conject...No.<BR/><BR/>I simply see no evidence to support the conjecture that if a bunch of families were somehow compelled to enroll their children in a school - or even if they did it by choice - that the school's culture would change to reflect the values of those new families.<BR/><BR/>Exhibit A: Madrona. A significant number of families worked for a number of years but that school did not change to reflect what the families at the school wanted. Let's remember that local White students made up half of a recent kindergarten class at Madrona. They were not a tiny minority. Read Madrona's School Transformation Plan. They specifically say that they want more family involvement, <B>but only from African-American families</B>. They feel that the involvement from White families is disproportionately high and they sought a more proportionate outcome.<BR/><BR/>Exhibit B: Washington. APP students are compelled to attend Washington for middle school, just as anonymous proposed for Spectrum. The central region Spectrum students have no other option either. APP makes up 40% of the students at Washington. Spectrum makes up another 15% of the enrollment, yet the school does not provide academically challenging electives despite the constant demand for them. Students who aren't involved in instrumental music simply are not served for one third of the day. When is Washington going to reflect the needs of these students? Are the parents not involved enough? Are they not a big enough contingent at the school? Have they not been there long enough? Why hasn't the school automatically changed to reflect what the students attending it want? It hasn't happened because that is not the why it works.<BR/><BR/>Some principals just are not responsive to their communities. That's just the way it is. The District does not require or enforce any sort of responsiveness.<BR/><BR/>Do you want to know why some schools have a lot of involved families and some don't? I think it is because some schools encourage involvement and some discourage it.<BR/><BR/>There is one model that suggests that there are these golden families out there - families that will get involved in their children's education, attend parent-teacher conferences, volunteer in the classroom and work fundraisers for the PTA. In this model these families use school choice to self-select each other to form all-star teams at a few annointed schools and leave all of the other schools bereft.<BR/><BR/>That's one model. Here's another: the school can do things to either encourage or discourage family involvement. Some schools do one, some do the other, and some are neutral. A family may want to be involved in their child's school, but if the school is unwelcoming, the family will eventually give up and go away.<BR/><BR/>Please do not indulge in these fantasy conjectures about "if only you had sent your child to that school it would become the school that you want it to be". There is scant evidence to support that proposition and there is little reason to believe it would happen without significant administrative support - which is rarely present.<BR/><BR/>Families cannot reform a school, only a principal can. The naivete of those who believe in these myths would be charming if it were not so damaging.Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49645918605678538802007-07-11T06:33:00.000-07:002007-07-11T06:33:00.000-07:00What if you couldn't send you child to Lafayette f...What if you couldn't send you child to Lafayette for Spectrum? What if you had to go to your in cluster Spectrum school? What if all of the other involved families in you neighborhood also had to go to Lafayette, and couldn't simply move out of cluster? What if for many many years before your children went to this school, most of the other families in your neighborhood chose this school? The school would be a very different school, no? The culture, discipline issue etc., would all be different, no? They would have to be, because the school would reflect what the parents attending it wanted, no?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-44854316702691170442007-07-11T06:09:00.000-07:002007-07-11T06:09:00.000-07:00I think that Choice works as well as it can be rea...I think that Choice works as well as it can be reasonably expected to work. Just because some people do not get their first or second choice does not mean that Choice doesn't work.<BR/><BR/>"<I>My point was that choice is not working for many families. As I said in my earlier post..unless you live in the reference area of a "popular" school, you are not going to get in. So how is choice benefiting you?</I>"<BR/><BR/>Just because a person does not get into their first choice popular school, doesn't mean that Choice doesn't work and it doesn't mean that Choice didn't benefit you personally.<BR/><BR/>I think we all need to recognize that schools have finite capacity and that the District needs to apply some rational method of deciding which students are assigned to over-subscribed schools.<BR/><BR/>If you select a bunch of over-subscribed schools and a whole lot of other people live closer to those schools than you do, then you need to be realistic about your chances to gain entry to them. I'm not saying that you shouldn't list the school on your form if that is what you truly want, but recognize how this thing works and keep your expectations reality-based.<BR/><BR/>Finally, I think a lot of people are using Choice improperly. If your reference area school is able to meet your child's academic needs, then why in the world wouldn't you choose it? Because there is another school with higher test scores? That doesn't seem a proper reason to me. That's like choosing a mutual fund based exclusively on last year's return numbers without any other considerations. I know a lot of people do it that way, but that doesn't make it right or smart.<BR/><BR/>My children are now in APP, but they didn't start there. My eldest daughter first attended our reference area school for kindergarten. She qualified for Spectrum for the first grade and we had a talk with the teachers and principal at her school. They said that they would do their best, but that they were not set up to meet her academic needs in the same way that a Spectrum program would be. We didn't have confidence in the Spectrum program in our cluster nor did we care for some other elements of the school, so we chose Lafayette for her for the first grade. She was at Lafayette through the fourth grade and her sister was there for kindergarten through the second grade. They both qualified for APP that year and we moved them to Lowell for fifth and third grade.<BR/><BR/>Without Choice, they would have been at the Spectrum school for our cluster. Not only do I have serious doubts about the effectiveness of that Spectrum program, the school did not appeal to us in a number of other ways - the way they handled discipline issues, the culture of the school, etc. I recognize that my family's story is not typical, but it's not about what is best for me or my family. In all my years of advocacy, I have rarely - if ever - advocated for anything that would directly serve my children.<BR/><BR/>Let's not determine that Choice doesn't work because it cannot produce miracles. Let's have less negativity and more positive suggestions. How can Choice be improved?<BR/><BR/>Finally, I have never been to a PIC center (or whatever the District is calling them these days) but I sure have heard a lot of horror stories about what people are told at them. Yow!Charlie Mashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17173903762962067277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54519440942450879122007-07-11T03:20:00.000-07:002007-07-11T03:20:00.000-07:00http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools-c/boundaries/inde...http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools-c/<BR/>boundaries/index0708.php<BR/><BR/>Pretty cool you can type your address in and it tells you what school<BR/>The elementary that is closest to my daughter who lives in se Portland, is an Arts focus, has 3 all day Ks, plus before and after care.<BR/><BR/>http://www.pps.k12.or.us/schools-c/<BR/>profiles/?id=837Jet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-38761765412178253782007-07-10T23:01:00.000-07:002007-07-10T23:01:00.000-07:00I'm having a difficult time figuring out how to po...I'm having a difficult time figuring out how to post a link, but if you go to Oregonlive.com and search "school boundaries" you will find an interesting article called "If shopping for a school, just redraw the map"<BR/><BR/>It's relating to Portland and some controversy as to how the boundaries are currently drawn - anyway, an interesting read because it made me wonder how controversial the results of the School boards "guaranteed assigned school" by neighborhood will be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80268797610735761942007-07-10T21:28:00.000-07:002007-07-10T21:28:00.000-07:00I used the term "dumped" because it was not on thi...I used the term "dumped" because it was not on this families enrollment application. They listed 5 schools and Rogers was not one of them. The district did a mandatory assignment to the only under subscribed school in the cluster. In my book that's getting "dumped". A mandatory assignment to a school that's not on your enrollment application is equivalent to being "dumped" in my book. Rogers is the lowest performing school in the cluster, and is simply not competetive with Bryant, Wedgewood, View Ridge, Laurelhurst. You can make it what you will but you are still in a school that you didn't choose, that for whatever reason you did not think would fit your childs needs. The earlier poster is right, in that once there, most families tend to be OK with the school, and some wind up really liking it. But that doesn't change my original point that choice is a farce.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35780730203984018512007-07-10T21:19:00.000-07:002007-07-10T21:19:00.000-07:00Federal law, not state law, defines LRE. Washingt...Federal law, not state law, defines LRE. Washington is behind because it has not yet adopted regulations to impliment the newest version of the IDEA. BTW, "mainstreaming," does not equal putting a 12 year old in a classroom of first graders.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43127405385414201972007-07-10T21:12:00.000-07:002007-07-10T21:12:00.000-07:00The law requires the district to place the student...<I> The law requires the district to place the student in a program in which they will recieve a meaningful educational benifit.</I><BR/><BR/>Oh is <I> that </I><BR/>what the district is interested in? <BR/>Im wondering how they determine that if they don't evaluate students with IEPs/504s?<BR/><BR/>FOr students to receive meaningful benefit, then the IEP would have to be legal and address areas of strength as well as of need.<BR/>However- often they have very minimal goals, probably why our state is in trouble.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Actually the law states it needs to be least restrictive environment- and that sounds like mainstreaming to me.<BR/><BR/>Also according to the latest govt evaluation of how states are meeting requirements of IDEA statute, these states and territories are identified as needing intervention.<BR/><BR/>Colorado<BR/>Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas Islands<BR/>Washington, DC<BR/>Federated States of Micronesia<BR/>Indiana<BR/>North Carolina<BR/>North Dakota<BR/>Puerto Rico<BR/>Virgin Islands<BR/>Washington<BR/>Pretty illustrious company we have there <BR/><BR/>http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/<BR/>education/20070620-1439-specialedlaw.htmlJet City momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14804841958585043967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-24797072414019805772007-07-10T21:00:00.000-07:002007-07-10T21:00:00.000-07:00To some earlier points, it's hard to understand ho...To some earlier points, it's hard to understand how people can talk about being "dumped" at a school - it's such an insult to the staff and community of said school and sounds pretty petulant, as in "I didn't get what I wanted and now I'm mad."<BR/><BR/>And I wonder what their kids end up thinking about the school they land in? That it's a dump? I don't think that's setting the right kind of example - or the right tone for a learning experience.<BR/><BR/>Especially when much of the time (especially with elementary) it is what you make it.<BR/><BR/>I've almost come around to thinking "why is there choice in elementary, again?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89436796708830392112007-07-10T19:47:00.000-07:002007-07-10T19:47:00.000-07:00Class of 75"Last year for example, there was a pub...Class of 75<BR/><BR/>"Last year for example, there was a publicized case of a student who was already enrolled at one school where she was happy - but the district decided that they wanted her at a different school so they moved her."<BR/><BR/>Happy is not what the federal law requires for special education students. The law requires the district to place the student in a program in which they will recieve a meaningful educational benifit. And the law allows a parent of such a child a right to go before an adminstrative law judge to challenge any current or proposed change if they see fit. <BR/><BR/>I know the instance you are referring to, and I was APPALLED that the student's educational situation was exploited by a group of parents angry with a particular building adminstration. The poor child was treated like the building mascot who was there so other kids could learn tolerance rather than as a student who had a right to a meaningful education just like that student's non-disabled classmates.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com