tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post3289739517087598407..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Board Meeting TonightMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger90125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-202524102878852372010-11-08T09:46:22.210-08:002010-11-08T09:46:22.210-08:00To be fair, this is common in philanthropy--Founda...To be fair, this is common in philanthropy--Foundations give money to 'build capacity' or get something started--they don't pretend to be in it for the long run. That's why it's important that the grantee think ahead about where the resources to continue will come from.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43726009143243559712010-11-06T13:59:17.542-07:002010-11-06T13:59:17.542-07:00"If the program is successful, maybe after th...<i>"If the program is successful, maybe after the initial two years, that same organization would offer us funding for another two years?</i><br /><br />It's my understanding that this is basically coming from Gates and, in my book, Gates has consistently exhibited lack of follow through when it comes to education issues. How many of your schools spent hours of teacher PD time on your "transformation plans" eight years ago? Where was the money to continue that work? What has happened to all of those Gates sponsored "small academies?" Where have they actually followed through in K-12 education? (ThrivebyFive does still seem to be going).Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10721888210972260912010-11-06T07:14:47.604-07:002010-11-06T07:14:47.604-07:00I'd repeat that it is not good (or democratic)...I'd repeat that it is not good (or democratic) policy to bring in private funders to do the work of public schools. If private entities want to help out by buying a sound board for an auditorium, or by funding an after-school tutorial identified as necessary by the board and admin, great. I thank them from t he bottom of my heart. But what we've seen, of late, is private interests directing district direction and initiatives - "hey, these people will fund it, so it's great! Oh, what a coincidence, these people are funding a deal teh superintendent made with TFA's Kopp when they sat together on the Broad board! Ha ha, just a coincidence, we swear!"<br /><br />Private money should not fund insertion of non-vetted inititatives into SPS operations. It's a erosion of public process. And in this case it smells distinctly of cronyismseattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45799982255032533862010-11-05T21:46:31.548-07:002010-11-05T21:46:31.548-07:00"If the program is successful, maybe after th..."If the program is successful, maybe after the initial two years, that same organization would offer us funding for another two years? Or maybe we'd find a new funder? Or a grant? Or maybe, if no funding or grants materiale, we would cut the program"<br /><br />Oh please, I'm sorry but that is a dreamer rationale. No, there is no organization that is going to keep fronting it. <br /><br />So if you say this is a grand experiment for two years, fine. Get it in writing. Otherwise, this district is not going to walk away (and may not be able to) after two years. <br /><br />A grant or something else? It is not good governance to take on a project that you do not know how to fund down the line. It's like Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney "hey kids let's put on a show!" No, in these allegedly rough economic times, we cannot start new initiatives without understanding where we are going and why and how we fund it. That is what governance is about. It's fine if we, as parents, want to say "try it and we'll figure out funding later" but for the Board and the Superintendent it should not be an option.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-51816026601398418462010-11-05T17:49:01.436-07:002010-11-05T17:49:01.436-07:00What happened to all the parents who petitioned an...What happened to all the parents who petitioned and picketed to save the jobs of the dozens of awesome, young, and non-TFA teachers when the RIF's came down in '08? <br /><br />With all those awesome and talented teachers needing work and being bumped out by seniority, the facts say we not only have a bunch of qualified, unemployed teachers already here in Seattle, but damn good ones too! So said many, many parents who picketed and signed the CPPS Anti-Seniority Petition in '08. <br /><br />Yet, here we are, not bringing those folks back to work, but instead rolling out the red carpet for another Ed Reform experiment. I don't care if all TFA teachers graduate from Harvard with the highest honors, only 1 in 5 wind up teaching after 3 years, so we might as well say 4 out of 5 "flunk the big test" of becoming a teacher. Fair is fair, and let's call it like it is. I'm not calling these folks failures or losers. Quite the contrary. But TFA is about teachers, isn't it? So procuring 1 in 5 isn't something that should get the Board to roll out the red carpet and drop to their knees like they are. <br /><br />Someone needs to explain to me why, above all, TFA should get preferential treatment over anyone? Because they did well in college? Well so did I, but you wouldn't want me teaching your kids, trust me!<br /><br />There are many ways to reward high achieving college grads, but allowing them to MAYBE succeed in helping struggling kids is a pretty thin rationale. <br /><br />I tend to agree with Maureen above and take issue with her critics. Why LA and not here? Because the conditions in LA schools, not the kids, dictate that TFA would likely have a much bigger impact, if only by showing up to work each day where many teachers don't. We aren't comparing apples to apples and generic comments about all kids being treated equal miss the point. People should be deployed where they can have the biggest impact and their talents put to the best use. Deploying people where they aren't needed is simply and inefficient distribution of human capital.wseadawghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750439461734046035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-871113946805046362010-11-05T17:23:32.005-07:002010-11-05T17:23:32.005-07:00Oh, I heard her! I missed the fact that she was a...Oh, I heard her! I missed the fact that she was a science teacher. She was very effective.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20492407674965326762010-11-05T16:28:55.998-07:002010-11-05T16:28:55.998-07:00@Maureen - my understanding is that the science te...@Maureen - my understanding is that the science teacher actually testified at the Board mtg. per Karyn King on the What happened to Harium threa.d As to the young man in AZ, I will ask him to send an email to the Board. <br />Also, if it is true that hundreds of teachers applied for positions at W. Seattle, then the pool seems to be plenty big and probably deep too :)<br /><br />The Seattle Times reported that new grads coming out of our local Ed degree programs are not getting jobs here. The information is out there if the board bothers.another momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12303476240929715442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-31281135638069302332010-11-05T09:46:36.807-07:002010-11-05T09:46:36.807-07:00another mom, is there some way you could get those...<b>another mom</b>, is there some way you could get those two teachers (especially the science one) to email all of the Board members? I can imagine that they believe that we still have a shortage of science and math teachers (I've wondered that myself.)Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62199622526279532982010-11-05T09:07:56.940-07:002010-11-05T09:07:56.940-07:00@ Hawk
IMHO, a shortage of certified teachers is ...@ Hawk <br />IMHO, a shortage of certified teachers is the only legitmate rationale to bring TFA to the District. Right now that situation simply does not exist. SPS has riffed a National Board Certified science teacher, who had 3 years of experience. Who knows how many good certs. have been let go in this economy.<br /><br />In light of that and what the Seattle Times noted about graduates from teaching programs at our state institutions -they cannot find jobs, this proposal by all rights should be DOA.<br /><br />A friend's child and recent graduate from the UW's cert program was unable to find a job in WA state. He is now teaching in Arizona. Our state's loss. He is in fact one of the best and brightest kids that I know.another momhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12303476240929715442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37267644932423818862010-11-04T23:13:05.825-07:002010-11-04T23:13:05.825-07:00Yahoo the Video is online NOWYahoo <a href="http://www.seattlechannel.org/videos/watchVideos.asp?program=schools" rel="nofollow">the Video is online NOW</a>dan dempseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15536720661510933983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-44067853947129173822010-11-04T20:54:23.059-07:002010-11-04T20:54:23.059-07:00TFA will not be an option when people get wind of ...TFA will not be an option when people get wind of the district's (and the state's, apparently) rationale about how it is okay to have a non-certified applicant in the general hiring pool because, you see, they have conditional certs so they're certified!<br /><br /><br />See, a conditional cert is just like a cert!<br />And down the rabbit hole we go...seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22980959794890468172010-11-04T20:30:36.474-07:002010-11-04T20:30:36.474-07:00"I also put to anyone who wants to "try&..."I also put to anyone who wants to "try" TFA, please tell us what you would cut to pay for TFA? Waiting..."<br /><br />We don't have to cut a single thing for at least two years since we have private funding. If the program is successful, maybe after the initial two years, that same organization would offer us funding for another two years? Or maybe we'd find a new funder? Or a grant? Or maybe, if no funding or grants materiale, we would cut the program? <br /><br />Are we signing a contract with TFA? If so, is it per teacher? Or for so many teachers per year for X amount of years?<br /><br />Anyway, I think we will have options. And if not, we move on. I'd have to see the contract, but I doubt we are committed to TFA beyond two years or so.seattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01231800476411684686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71082150730571098812010-11-04T20:27:35.996-07:002010-11-04T20:27:35.996-07:00A little bit more from the book.
To follow are qu...A little bit more from the book.<br /><br />To follow are quotes from TFAer's with the author's notes in between the quotes:<br /><br /> "... And, part of the problem is, I just never know exactly if I am doing what I am supposed to be doing and that creates a lot of stress." (Kyle)<br /><br />"That stress is increased by the requirement of completing 15 credit hours during their rookie year, because of their emergency certification status:"<br /><br /> "What does TFA want me to do? Attend UPenn classes four nights in a row, grade my student papers, and prepare for teaching, or listen to them? I'm done with it!" (Curtis)<br /><br />"Let me comment briefly on the requirement for 15 credit hours. When I began my doctoral studies while in my 2nd year at my current school, I needed special permission to take 9 credit hours, because our system believes taking on anything more than 6 credit hours at time jeopardizes one' effectiveness as a teacher. I already had 4 years of teaching experience, one of which was in the school with the same preps as I would have while attending graduate school. I have seen beginning teachers with emergency or provisional credentials struggle to balance the demands of the classes they teach and those they attend, even with 6 hours and MORE PREPARATION than the 5 weeks offered in TFA institutes."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-47642808052608195502010-11-04T20:25:43.776-07:002010-11-04T20:25:43.776-07:00here is a very interesting, and two sided, discuss...<a href="http://educationpolicyblog.blogspot.com/2010/01/does-teach-for-america-build-civic.html" rel="nofollow">here </a>is a very interesting, and two sided, discussion of TFA.Chris S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17016898261120819596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-80137713980702120112010-11-04T20:18:15.746-07:002010-11-04T20:18:15.746-07:00This is an excerpt of a book review for "Lear...This is an excerpt of a book review for "Learning on Other People's Kids: Becoming a Teach For America Teacher" in the <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/6/18/877196/-Learning-On-Other-Peoples-Kidsan-important-book-on-Teach-for-America" rel="nofollow">Daily Kos</a><br /><br />"...As should be clear from how I began, Veltri now raises serious questions about our reliance upon Teach For America. That does not mean she is necessarily opposed to alternative programs to recruit and train teachers for hard to staff schools in inner cities and rural areas: in her Acknowledgments she refers to Jumpstart of Manhattanville College, whose model "includes 6 months of coursework, practicum, and mentoring, prior to placement of career-changers into New York Schools." By comparison, TFA Corp members get a 5 week institute.<br /><br />The difference can perhaps be reflected best in retention statistics - as of the writing of the book, 85% of those who completed Jumpstart remained in the classroom (these are 9 year figures(, whereas the vast majority of TFA leave the classroom upon completion of their two year commitments, taking advantage of the benefits offered by graduate and professional schools towards former TFAers, and includes a stipend from AmeriCorps equal to $5,000/year for use against any past or future educational expense. Remember (1) this is paid for by our taxes, and (2) TFAers qualify for this regardless of any financial need. <br /><br />And while I am on the financial aspects about which you will learn in this book, let me also note the following. TFA requires that their Corp members be paid the same as would certified teachers in the same positions EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE NOT THEMSELVES CERTIFIED. <br /><br />Further, the contracts with school districts require a payment to TFA of several thousand dollars additional for each Corps Members, thus effectively making a TFA placement MORE EXPENSIVE than hiring others to teach, whether fully certified or - like TFAers - provisionally certified. <br /><br />And there are the costs associated with the constant turnover of teaching faculty. On p. 168 Veltri cites a study that says the costs of teachers leaving the classroom range from $4,366 and $17,872 for each teacher leaving this classroom. There is further non-financial impact in the negative effect upon learning that is clearly documented across the professional literature in schools lacking a constant teaching faculty."<br /><br />An interesting read.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20437165316427030182010-11-04T17:09:23.486-07:002010-11-04T17:09:23.486-07:00Curious: Debell's biggest asset and his bigges...Curious: Debell's biggest asset and his biggest flaw is that he likes to address controversy with the super behind the scenes so that publicly the board/super have a cordial relationship.<br /><br />After we had huge unruly screaming matches during board meetings at the end of Raj's Reign, I can see the benefit of the more cordial approach.<br /><br />Unfortunately though, a few years in, his approach has become more and more hindrance than help. Some controversies, especially ones where the public feels it is not getting a voice, need to be aired, well, publicly. He didn't support the super nearly so much as his review of her lead the public to believe. And he left the board members who actually spoke their feelings high and dry as the evaluation came into its final formation. Lame, especially because we might have been a giant step closer to new leadership if he would have manned up and been candid. <br /><br />And the final tipping point for me is this TFA thing. Debell heads the Exec committee. He knowingly and encouragely brokered this deal behind the scenes in part because he himself is a fan of TFA. It was a shoddy crappy way to treat the community at large and even worse to treat the many esteemed teachers in this district. I dare say it is the worst action he has carried out in two terms, not because he likes TFA, but because of his sneakiness. I used to be a fan but those days are over. <br /><br />-skeptical-Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20270268532398922662010-11-04T16:21:47.475-07:002010-11-04T16:21:47.475-07:00I have spoken with Director Debell before. He ass...I have spoken with Director Debell before. He assured me that the Superintendent worked for *them* (the Board) and that they had full oversight and authority over her.curiousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4338085260129214852010-11-04T14:16:08.763-07:002010-11-04T14:16:08.763-07:00Curious: The Board members often have hundreds of ...Curious: The Board members often have hundreds of emails a week concerning board business. You want a board member to understand you and your cause?...You have to go to their coffee hour and have a conversation. That way they have a name, face, and a chance to understand a full argument.<br /><br />Write an email, or many, too! But the Coffee Hour rule is an effective one for the public. <br /><br />HOWEVER, if you are a Large Nonprofit With Lots Of Money, other rules of access and communication apply. LOL (bitterly)<br /><br />-skeptical-Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22103085384204932502010-11-04T13:49:44.513-07:002010-11-04T13:49:44.513-07:00Does Debell read or answer emails from people? I h...Does Debell read or answer emails from people? I have written to him a couple of times on a couple of matters and have never gotten a response.curiousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68109491238377819962010-11-04T13:41:28.645-07:002010-11-04T13:41:28.645-07:00Lendees, your question - where does the money to p...Lendees, your question - where does the money to pay the TFA fee per teacher come from after our "private donor" money goes? is a good one. I keep asking it over and over. I also put to anyone who wants to "try" TFA, please tell us what you would cut to pay for TFA? Waiting...<br /><br />Who is Seattle Council PTSA leadership? I think you have to be a member of your school PTA and then you are a member of Seattle Council and you can run for any position. They take nominations in the spring but there is rarely any contest as few people want these busy and challenging posts. Maybe more people should run if you want the direction of the PTSA (agreeing with the district) to change and/or you want PTSA to be more for parents.<br /><br />Our district is working overtime to help TFA? That's what this rush is about? Screw that.<br /><br />Lean on DeBell. He needs to hear from many, loud and clear, that a Q&A at a Board meeting is not adequate public engagement for TFA or any topic.<br /><br />It is in the agreement that the TFA teachers will teach in low-performing schools. Yes, they can interview with any principal but I'm sure the principals will get directives over who can and can't hire TFA teachers.<br /><br />P.S. Hello from Sunny Arizona.Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12588239576000641336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-45696905412536269982010-11-04T13:24:27.636-07:002010-11-04T13:24:27.636-07:00ALL KIDS EVERYWHERE deserve the SAME LEVEL of inst...<i>ALL KIDS EVERYWHERE deserve the SAME LEVEL of instruction and care. </i><br /><br />I absolutely agree with you here.<br /><br />And <b>Chris</b> has interpreted my post perfectly. I'm sorry if I was unclear.Maureenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444916440000921599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73941472965776150332010-11-04T13:05:40.035-07:002010-11-04T13:05:40.035-07:00Anonymouse, I had to read Maureen's post more ...Anonymouse, I had to read Maureen's post more than once, but I do not believe she is saying what you attribute to her. She is saying TFA represents an improvement in other cities where the status quo is non-certified and long-term subs, and she would not begrudge those students that improvement. However, we have adequate staffing in Seattle such that there is no reason to believe TFA would actually be an improvement. <br /><br />She didn't say anything about what kids DESERVE. But I will - all kids deserve MUCH more than TFA. One of my major concerns is that the deep-pocketed donors and the board will believe they have done justice to these kids by letting TFA in, and stop trying to get the "best and brightest and certified" in those schools.Chris S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17016898261120819596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-685729670100763542010-11-04T13:03:01.170-07:002010-11-04T13:03:01.170-07:00Anonymouse,
I think you're probably being a l...Anonymouse,<br /><br />I think you're probably being a little harsh on Maureen. I don't think Maureen would, given the ability to design a system, choose to have some other population of kids as proving ground for our teachers.<br /><br />I think the sentiment is just that these TFA teachers are being used elsewhere. We don't really have a lot of control over that.<br /><br />If that's true, and these folks want to come to Seattle and they will stick it out in the profession long enough, then, sure, who wouldn't want to let them go through the hiring process. But we don't need them to dabble in teaching with high poverty students in our district when it is completely unnecessary and possibly risky.Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16540428343439198125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37241566103902467482010-11-04T13:01:28.728-07:002010-11-04T13:01:28.728-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16540428343439198125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53839696283496874042010-11-04T12:59:45.185-07:002010-11-04T12:59:45.185-07:00"Usually, terrible things that are done with ...<i>"Usually, terrible things that are done with the excuse that progress requires them are not really progress at all, but just terrible things."</i><br /><br />~Russell Baker (1925- ), American journalist, essayist, Pulitzer Prize writerSahilahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11610179287237833742noreply@blogger.com