tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post3479669516118604826..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Friday Open ThreadMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90989940386972281882017-11-07T14:15:02.108-08:002017-11-07T14:15:02.108-08:00@About Time,
Hard to see how any amount of commen...@About Time,<br /><br />Hard to see how any amount of commenting on this blog will move the dial on how SPS selects students for HCC. The increase in funding and threats of lawsuits are sooner likely to do that.<br /><br />NCLB included no accountability for the achievement of advanced students. This resulted particularly in disadvantaged students not having sufficient access to gifted education services and other advanced opportunities. NCLB also did not address achievement gaps at the advanced level between populations of students. And it didn't provide teachers training in identifying the indicators of giftedness or having effective strategies for how to respond and support those students.<br /><br />The Every Student Succeeds Act should help. Thanks to it:<br />* State and local report cards must now report on student achievement at the advanced level, disaggregated by subgroups<br />* Title I funds can be used to identify and serve low-income gifted and talented students<br />* State plans for use of federal Title II professional development funds must address how the state will enable teachers to identify gifted and talented students and provide instruction based on their needs.<br />* Districts receiving Title II funds must provide training to address the learning of gifted and talented students and may provide training to support the identification of gifted students, including high-ability students who have not been formally identified as gifted.<br /><br />Seattle's HCC program as it stands today truly is an entirely optional system. True, the district has started screening second graders at title one schools. But that definitely leaves a lot of students in the district who are not being screened. The only way any of those other students get screened is for someone to refer them. Lord knows why a child who needs faster or harder schoolwork should need multiple adults to jump through multiple hoops on specific, cryptically communicated, dates to get the child the schoolwork the child needs. <br /><br />Before high school in Seattle, HCC is just acceleration, and there's really no reason why any school couldn't just skip a student who needs acceleration ahead a grade or two. There is NO reason for this. And yet staff and teachers fight tooth and nail against this. <br /><br />Hopefully ESSA will help. And the state funding for fairer identification. I have my doubts about comments on this blog, though.Facts aPlentynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-833097991259332272017-11-07T13:15:33.340-08:002017-11-07T13:15:33.340-08:00@ About Time, so what are the "correct" ...@ About Time, so what are the "correct" demographics? How will we know we have the "right" proportion of each group, when race isn't the only factor? Or are you suggesting that cognitive ability is set at birth (not impacted by conditions) and is exactly the same for all groups?<br /><br />All typesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-30920753924386799652017-11-07T08:10:44.063-08:002017-11-07T08:10:44.063-08:00Not nearly enough...
There have been some account...Not nearly enough...<br /><br />There have been some accounts here that the district has changed scoring norms for some populations.<br /><br />However, it's too little (whatever it is) because the demographics remain totally skewed.<br /><br />About timeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-21774245410466808742017-11-07T07:46:00.304-08:002017-11-07T07:46:00.304-08:00About Time, are you saying that NO students have b...About Time, are you saying that NO students have been deemed eligible for HCC in the absence of test scores that meet the published threshold? I believe some have. So wouldn't that be based on consideration of multiple evidences?<br /><br />all typesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82581942482334391842017-11-07T07:19:58.965-08:002017-11-07T07:19:58.965-08:00http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english...http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/option<br /><br />"one thing that can be chosen from a set of POSSIBILITIES, or the freedom to make a choice"<br /><br />When the possibility virtually doesn't exist--in this case because of biases and/or invalid scoring norms and/or lack of using multiple evidences--it takes the option out of optional.<br /><br />Too bad concern about reaching the students who are being denied HC services in SPS isn't getting as much attention or energy here as word parsing.<br /><br />History shows that the government or courts need to step in when systems don't do the right thing. We see that happening now with the WA state mandate about identifying underserved HC students.<br /><br />About TimeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-14394791252077625812017-11-06T21:00:49.864-08:002017-11-06T21:00:49.864-08:00HCC (highly capable cohort) is optional. You have ...HCC (highly capable cohort) is optional. You have to opt in during open enrollment. And becoming HC eligible, also optional. There is no requirement of parents or guardians or teachers to refer a child who might benefit from it.Facts aPlentynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-62919336903083456912017-11-06T19:04:29.902-08:002017-11-06T19:04:29.902-08:00Yes, the inability to meet the entrance criteria i...Yes, the inability to meet the entrance criteria is what makes them underserved students. Did you think that was news? <br /><br />Time’s Up Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32714026910297396772017-11-06T18:07:52.467-08:002017-11-06T18:07:52.467-08:00HCC is not optional. It has entrance criteria, and...HCC is not optional. It has entrance criteria, and the type that SPS uses has been demonstrated by research to result in the exclusion (or "inability to get in", if you prefer those semantics) of underserved students.<br /><br />Whether to pursue the testing is optional. But even that is suspect since the communication about it is so lame.<br /><br />About TimeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27307975000545326012017-11-06T17:21:03.156-08:002017-11-06T17:21:03.156-08:00@ HP, that's great. Yes, GE students do take A...@ HP, that's great. Yes, GE students do take AP classes, and they are open to everyone with the prerequisites. However, in order for Hale to work for my HCC student, it will need to offer higher level math and science classes than currently--specifically, AP Calculus BC, AP Chemistry and AP Physics. Do you know if Hale plans to add those?<br /><br />HSsoonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-41135805958868923992017-11-06T14:02:44.879-08:002017-11-06T14:02:44.879-08:00For comparison, Garfield’s 2017 schedule (# of sec...For comparison, Garfield’s 2017 schedule (# of sections):<br /><br />AP LA 11th and 12th <br />AP Calc AB (5)<br />AP Calc BC (1)<br />AP Stats (3)<br />AP Env Sci (5)<br />AP Biology (3)<br />AP Chemistry (5)<br />AP Physics (2)<br />AP World History (11)<br />AP Amer Gov (2)<br />AP US Hist (4)<br />AP Japanese (2)<br />AP French (1)<br />AP Latin (1)<br />AP Spanish (2)<br />AP Macro (1)<br />AP Computer Science (2)<br />AP Studio Art (1)<br /><br />If HCC was to split into 5 cohorts (+ Ingraham), any course with only 1 or 2 (or even 3) sections could be in jeopardy. Again, where is a detailed analysis by the district? For each course, what percentage of the students are HC vs non-HCC? <br /><br />forewarnedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28660426909652198632017-11-06T13:28:13.144-08:002017-11-06T13:28:13.144-08:00The HCC program in SPS is totally optional. Referr...The HCC program in SPS is totally optional. Referral for testing is optional. Participation in testing is optional. I would think it would be hard to show exclusion from an optional program. Not to mention that kids of color ARE in the program. There were 59 African American HC students last year. And probably quite a few others who would have been HC eligible if anyone had referred them and they had gone through the qualification process. African American students in Seattle are statistically more likely to attend schools with principals who don't understand or believe in meeting the needs of advanced learners. We should require training for principals.Bartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-20588370128187427862017-11-06T12:55:12.318-08:002017-11-06T12:55:12.318-08:00My kid went to Hale which has few HCC kids. In my...My kid went to Hale which has few HCC kids. In my kid's AP Calculus AB class, there were 45 kids. There were at least 2 other packed sections of AP Calculus plus a packed section of AP Environmental Science. These AP classes were filled with GenEd kids. My friend's non-HCC kid graduated Hale with credits (passed the AP tests) in AP LA, AP History, AP Calculus AB, and AP Env Sci. Hale also offers AP Japanese. There are a lot of GenEd kids taking AP classes.<br /><br />HPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-32357878588136491122017-11-06T08:15:14.614-08:002017-11-06T08:15:14.614-08:00SPS Newbie, you echo my sentiments exactly. It IS...SPS Newbie, you echo my sentiments exactly. It IS a burden on parents to support a salary every single year (Ingraham's principal doesn't allow it but he's the only one I know of.) Obviously, it is a huge inequity and a glaring one that the staff and the Board pretends isn't happening (or isn't a problem, which I don't know). <br /><br />PTA is about enhancement and enrichment and funding staff salaries is not in that category (to me).Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-7587086699848463042017-11-05T21:47:42.514-08:002017-11-05T21:47:42.514-08:00observer, thanks for your kind comment :) I still ...observer, thanks for your kind comment :) I still question the practice of having PTA bear any part of the burden of staff salaries--especially core staff like art, music, counselors etc. It's sad and worrisome to think that my child's school may or may not have music or f/t counselor every year, depending on how much money the PTA can raise. And equally sad to think about how many less "enhancements" will be available to students at my child's school since the PTA has to spend so much of its money on staff salaries. <br /><br />--SPS NewbieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22499823881398334242017-11-05T17:02:37.187-08:002017-11-05T17:02:37.187-08:00About Time, show us where the State is saying that...About Time, show us where the State is saying that because kids of color are not in the program, they have been "excluded." Excluded implies intent. Is that proven?<br /><br />Readers, if you are told someone use has your moniker -pick a new one. It's wrong to try to confuse others or pretend you are another commenter.<br /><br />Dam Startistics, you should ask the Board to ask for this info. It might be helpful.<br /><br />Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-28619969953342249502017-11-05T10:26:26.159-08:002017-11-05T10:26:26.159-08:00The claim that "90% of students who take AP c...<i>The claim that "90% of students who take AP coursework are NOT HCC students," seems highly dubious.</i><br /><br />I think it falls into the "lies, damn lies, and statistics" category. It may be very well true that 90% of students who took AP coursework were not HCC students, meaning not in the cohort at Garfield taking AP classes? Does HCC mean in the cohort, vs identified and not in the cohort? What about students in IBX/IB? What percent of HC identified students enrolled at Ingraham, Ballard, or Roosevelt? Kind of disingenuous to leave out IB, isn't it?<br /><br />I don't disbelieve the statistic, but think it is purposely not providing the entire picture.<br /><br />As suggested above, there are probably many students taking one or two AP classes. What needs to be included in the statistics is how many unique AP and IB courses are offered at each high school, and for each course, what percent are taken by HC vs non HC. It would provide a better picture what courses might be considered baseline offerings at a comprehensive high school and what courses are considered baseline offerings for HCC (what's offered at Garfield that's not offered elsewhere? What IB courses are offered at Ingraham vs other IB schools?). Where is the overlap and would the number of HC sites suggested in the latest proposal be able to provide those additional offerings? I think we know the answer: unlikely. <br /><br />darn startistics<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-35642310345077096392017-11-05T10:17:02.953-08:002017-11-05T10:17:02.953-08:00At high school, the cohort simply means that there...<i>At high school, the cohort simply means that there is a density of students, to drive advanced classes on the master schedule.</i><br /><br />Mostly true, but it's not only to ensure critical mass for advanced offerings. It also provides a cohort effect of sorts--not a cohort that sticks together for all/most core classes, but a cohort in that you're more likely to find other students with whom you relate. It's a social-emotional health component. For example, a 10th grader taking AP Calculus in a class full of non-HCC seniors is likely to feel more isolated and out-of-place than if there were other HCC 10th and 11th graders also in the class. <br /><br />DisAPPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-6872382413527053082017-11-05T09:31:23.048-08:002017-11-05T09:31:23.048-08:00@ NP,
I can't and don't speak for other,...@ NP, <br /><br />I can't and don't speak for other, so please don't lump my comments into some monolithic conversation. <br /><br />To spell this out, the definition of gifted services at high school on the paperwork that SPS sends to Olympia, in order to justify the extra money that Olympia sends to SPS for gifted services, defines high school services as a "cohort." That is the paperwork definition and I object to the change in the paperwork definition, because this will create the optics that identification of underserved students has been done. <br /><br />There are many people on this blog with younger kids, that don't have direct experience with high school. As such, it is reasonable that many people would think that cohort means the same things in all grade bands. That is not the case. I suspect that is the underlying reason for your lumped argument, because AP classes are open to everyone. There is NO self-contained aspect in high school. <br /><br />High school is different from K-8 in many ways, including the funding and scheduling mechanism. Cohort at elementary means they act as a cohort. Cohort at middle school means a cohort for LA/SS and science. Cohort at high school has NOTHING to do with the schedule. <br /><br />At high school, the cohort simply means that there is a density of students, to drive advanced classes on the master schedule. <br /><br />kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25079407845180666962017-11-05T09:18:47.694-08:002017-11-05T09:18:47.694-08:00The claim that "90% of students who take AP c...The claim that "90% of students who take AP coursework are NOT HCC students," seems highly dubious.<br /><br />Are there ways this number could be calculated and be true? I suppose if you count all students that took at least 1 AP class, then yes, this number probably makes sense.<br /><br />But how about if we instead look at the number of students that look the most advanced AP math and science classes? Are we really to believe that only 10% of the students in those classes are HCC? It's not that these classes aren't open to everyone, it is just that it is hard to believe that non-HCC students would meet the necessary prerequisites to qualify. <br /><br />The district has a long history of twisting numbers to its own purposes. If it smells like a lie, it perhaps it is.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />NE Parentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-46832771759432451722017-11-05T08:56:53.402-08:002017-11-05T08:56:53.402-08:00Sorry, AP classes, not APP.
-NPSorry, AP classes, not APP.<br />-NPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43819367983091808032017-11-05T08:55:37.544-08:002017-11-05T08:55:37.544-08:00@ Kellie writes "To just spell this out, I am...@ Kellie writes "To just spell this out, I am strongly opposed to this change that HCC in high school is no longer a cohort ". <br /><br />I thought you and others argued previously that HCC was not a cohort, that APP classes were open to everyone and that was OK. Why is it no longer OK?<br />-NPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-48977304044297521282017-11-05T06:59:02.603-08:002017-11-05T06:59:02.603-08:00Consider this from the NY Times
and how STEM doll...Consider this from the NY Times<br /><br />and how STEM dollars intertwine...<br /><br /><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/technology/silicon-valley-baltimore-schools.html?_r=0" rel="nofollow"><b> How Silicon Valley Plans to Conquer the Classroom </b></a><br /><br />The School grounds provide for hardware and software a market expected to reach $21 Billion by 2020.<br /><br />-- Dan Dempsey<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-49970915675127754772017-11-05T06:14:36.138-08:002017-11-05T06:14:36.138-08:00@ About Time,
Ok. So you took my clarification a...@ About Time, <br /><br />Ok. So you took my clarification about a misquote on another thread, to deliberately twist my words. So Let's just break this down. <br /><br />My statement is that I am for identifying historically underserved gifted students and then serving those student appropriately and with resources. The memo focuses on identification and reporting. I like to focus on actually doing the hard work. <br /><br />I mention that I would love for SPS to learn from Rainier Scholars. To be extra clear, equity requires resources. Rainier Scholars delivers extra resources. HCC does not get extra resources. <br /><br />To just spell this out, I am strongly opposed to this change that HCC in high school is no longer a cohort but instead the delivery model for HCC in High School will be AP courses. I am opposed to this because this is a zero cost solution that will empower SPS to check off the identification box. This may be intentional or unintentional, I can't address that. But I can address the consequences to reporting because of this change. <br /><br />As 90% of students who take AP coursework are NOT HCC students. AP courses are available to every student in the district AND at some schools 100% of students take at least one AP course. For example, AP Human Geography is 10th grade Social Studies at Roosevelt. <br /><br />If SPS changes the definition of gifted services in high school to AP coursework on the annual gifted services report, then SPS will have completely satisfied the mandate "on paper" to identify more historically underserved students. <br /><br />I object to this because I dislike political optics delivered as equity solutions. This change in high school delivery has profound consequences all across the district. This change was not vetted by the community and does nothing to help historically underserved students. <br /><br /><br />kelliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01322661098626555834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54665980038875133802017-11-05T01:15:23.980-08:002017-11-05T01:15:23.980-08:00About Time,
Wondering if you really believe the n...About Time,<br /><br />Wondering if you really believe the nonsense you post here.<br /><br />http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/16/558087458/studies-skewed-by-focus-on-well-off-educated-brains?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=2043<br /><br />Time’s UpAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67674585857294167782017-11-05T00:55:15.603-07:002017-11-05T00:55:15.603-07:00In the current thread on Transition Plan for Next ...In the current thread on Transition Plan for Next Year on Ops Agenda, "Newbie Mom" said on 11/4/17 at 12.20 am to kellie, "So much pointless hate gets spewed here at my little HCC kid. But you said what we should all be talking about. If only you weren't the only one saying this."<br /><br />Orange Marshmallows, don't be so grumpy. SPS Newbie, don't you worry, nobody is using the "same signature" as you. And to SPS Newbie and Newbie Mom, a very warm welcome for you both to what is actually a very kind and caring and informative blog community of parents and others who all do care deeply about the Seattle public schools and the education of our children.observernoreply@blogger.com