tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post3616692622933864052..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Governor Inslee Should Veto the Charter School BillMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger108125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-10918984032982608712016-03-13T12:49:42.928-07:002016-03-13T12:49:42.928-07:00"Or, frustration that the state isn't all..."Or, frustration that the state isn't allocating enough money across the board is being sort of unfairly directed at charter schools."<br /><br />Nice try but that won't work.<br /><br />AKA,I tend to know who the core people who come to this blog are. But I don't know who the majority are. And when I get personally attacked - not by you in this case but other times - then yes, I'd like to see people stand up for their words. You tell us all how much you know about legislative matters (inferring we know little and get it wrong). When I hear that kind of sighing "you know nothing" tone, it's a bit irritating. <br /><br />We're supposed to accept everything you say. Okay, I will but only at face value which, if you don't sign your name, isn't much to me. <br /><br />I think No on 1240 ends this well and so this discussion - for now - will end here.<br />Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-70752722808277033282016-03-13T12:47:26.332-07:002016-03-13T12:47:26.332-07:00seven, there is a simple reason why I didn't i...seven, there is a simple reason why I didn't include private schools in my ecosystem of public schools --- they are not required, as charter public schools are, to teach the state academic content standards, administer the state assessments, and to be held to the state accountability requirements.<br /><br />The trail court in the I-1240 case pointed specifically at these requirements to support the court's conclusion that charter public schools fit under our state's general and uniform system of public schools.<br /><br />Private schools operate under no such conditions and, therefore, warrant no expectations of public school funding.<br /><br />--- akaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68281228177155009312016-03-13T12:30:34.696-07:002016-03-13T12:30:34.696-07:00This is my last comment.
One can not talk about...This is my last comment. <br /><br />One can not talk about charters and privatization of education without including a conversation about ALEC and ALEC legislation related to education. I do note that Inslee had a legislator, on his McCleary task force, that supports ALEC legislation. The privatization movement is progressive.<br /><br />"ALEC’s education task force has pushed legislation for decades to privatize public schools, weaken teacher’s unions, and lower teaching standards.<br /><br />ALEC’s agenda would transform public education from a public and accountable institution that serves the public into one that serves private, for-profit interests. ALEC model bills divert taxpayer money from public to private schools through a variety of “voucher” and “tuition tax credit” programs. They promote unaccountable charter schools and shift power away from democratically elected local school boards….<br /><br />Although ALEC and other school privatizers today frame “vouchers” – taxpayer-funded tuition for private, and often religious, schools – in terms of “opportunity” for low-income students and giving parents the “choice” to send their children to public or private schools, the group was less judicious in its earlier years.<br /><br />The commentary to ALEC’s original 1984 voucher bill states that its purpose is “to introduce normal market forces” into education, and to “dismantle the control and power of” teachers’ unions by directing money from public institutions to private ones that were less likely to be unionized. <br /><br />Friedman was more explicit when addressing ALEC’s 2006 meeting. He explained that vouchers are really a step towards “abolishing the public school system.”<br /><br />I note: DFER calls themselves "Democrats" and they push ALEC legislation and they are in Olympia, and recruiting "Democrat" candidates. You can't call yourself a democrat and support charter schools with ALEC legislation.<br />NO 1240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-44251569499121581392016-03-13T12:06:34.231-07:002016-03-13T12:06:34.231-07:00NO 1240 wrote "I don't believe charter sc...NO 1240 wrote "I don't believe charter schools would have the capacity to serve all students that need special services for deaf and hard of hearing."<br /><br />I'm trying to figure out this sentence. Are you saying that charter schools wouldn't be able to serve "all students" just because there are more deaf and hard of hearing students than could be accommodated my a maximum of 40 charter schools? Or does the "all" mean that there would be some deaf and hard of hearing students who couldn't be served by charter schools?<br /><br />Charter schools in CA serve deaf and hard of hearing students, and there is at least one school "for the deaf" charter.<br /><br />LisaGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50565303580124941342016-03-13T12:03:55.806-07:002016-03-13T12:03:55.806-07:00aka-
If we "need a diverse ecosystem of publ...aka-<br /><br />If we "need a diverse ecosystem of publicly funded schools" why not include the private schools we currently have in your argument? They, too, could be "public charter" schools if the state gave them a pile of money. We could give them state money, and they could still control their enrollment, just like charter schools will. I am sure Bush would love to get a pile of money from the state.<br /><br />-seven<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25629788338079764282016-03-13T11:48:31.723-07:002016-03-13T11:48:31.723-07:00Hey now! I have zero problem with people keeping t...Hey now! I have zero problem with people keeping their identities anonymous. We all have our own reasons for choosing this option. And, I can't believe I'm saying this, ;o) but for once I agree with aka - people should leave that aspect of the discussion off the plate -it's not pertinent to the issues at hand whatsoever.<br /><br />My personal belief is that until/unless public education is <b>fully</b> funded, the creation of charter schools in WA should be delayed. <br /><br />reader47Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-26463100510250386892016-03-13T11:45:47.625-07:002016-03-13T11:45:47.625-07:00NO 1240, OSPI identified 18 schools/programs that ...NO 1240, OSPI identified 18 schools/programs that receive public school dollars that are not overseen by a local elected board. I wholeheartedly support these programs. I support the School for the Blind and the School for the Deaf. I support innovative district-based schools like SOTA, Aviation, etc. I support Middle College and Interagency. I support the EEU. AND I support charter public schools. Our students and their families deserve access to all of the programs. Our students' needs are diverse and we need a diverse ecosystem of publicly funded schools to meet their needs. I'm not going to call out one of them, i.e. charter public schools, as anathema within this ecosystem.<br /><br />--- aka Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-36417274484012912262016-03-13T11:19:08.011-07:002016-03-13T11:19:08.011-07:00I don't believe charter schools would have the...I don't believe charter schools would have the capacity to serve all students that need special services for deaf and hard of hearing. As well, I did enjoy a conversation- yesterday- with a teacher from Interagency/ Skyway. Glad to see that or public school system has the capacity to serve those with tremendous need with a teacher/student ration of 1:6-7.NO 1240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-83211014121184213152016-03-13T11:16:48.937-07:002016-03-13T11:16:48.937-07:00seattle citizen, I absolutely do not think of you ...seattle citizen, I absolutely do not think of you as a troll. Not in any way. I was reacting to Ivan's statement regarding "anonymous trolls." I absolutely believe that some people value the anonymity Melissa has provided here. But it's hypocritical of her to question the courage of conviction of some people but to support the same anonymity of others. I'd simply ask that she and others drop this line of challenge.<br /><br />--- akaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-37933579351853575882016-03-13T11:13:46.965-07:002016-03-13T11:13:46.965-07:00aka, I have also looked funding mechanism for scho...aka, I have also looked funding mechanism for schools that are funded under the non- traditional public school model. I did note that some of those schools are funded with grant dollars, and some do go through the school district etc. I will need to research schools for deaf and hard of hearing and I do believe those students need special support. However, as previous mentioned, some schools are funded with grant dollars etc. do not equate to the millions for which charter schools and their supporters seek.NO 1240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-75879789563730332402016-03-13T11:08:51.183-07:002016-03-13T11:08:51.183-07:00aka, I'm a troll? I've been a participant ...aka, I'm a troll? I've been a participant on this blog since it started, just about. Ten years or so. Yes, sometimes I say inane things, such as noting an uptick in what seems to be charter chatters (copyright) but that hardly makes me a troll.<br />But you're right: I shouldn't accuse others of being charter shills from my position of anonymity. That wasn't right and I retract it.seattle citizenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16724175257161649500noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91974772800570249472016-03-13T11:05:25.076-07:002016-03-13T11:05:25.076-07:00Thanks, String Cheese @ 10:31!! You are spot on.
...Thanks, String Cheese @ 10:31!! You are spot on.<br /><br />This year, Seattle lost 60 students to Summit Sierra. 60 students x $5K= $300K loss for the district. Seattle Public Schools was left to scramble. They had to cut teachers, move children and put them into even larger class sizes. Splitting of grades/ classes etc. caused quite a mess.<br /><br />aka- I'm tired of arguing with you. Go talk to the Tacoma school board and the ones that requested legislative relief. I am still waiting for you to clarify your description of left and moderate business type candidates that you feel should be supported.<br /><br />NO 1240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-43094906650477166672016-03-13T10:52:38.278-07:002016-03-13T10:52:38.278-07:00I will also note that- often- parents that enroll ...I will also note that- often- parents that enroll students in charter schools are involved parents. These are the same type of parents that bring supports into our public schools.<br /><br />At one point, I had a conversation with a pro=charter parent. Here is what she had to say "The parents that care about their children send their children to charter schools. Our kids won't have to deal with the trouble makers." Nice.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-91286082902456083252016-03-13T10:48:41.155-07:002016-03-13T10:48:41.155-07:00NO 1240, like my statement to Leprechaun, I'll...NO 1240, like my statement to Leprechaun, I'll check back in with you after I've noted your demand that the School for the Deaf and the School for the Blind be closed. Neither are under the control of a local and elected school board. Their boards are appointed by the governor. They receive public school dollars.<br /><br />As for Tacoma Public Schools, if they're claiming that two charter public schools with approx. less than 200 students each is having a significantly negative affect on their budget for approx. 28,000 students, they're either budgeting wrong or they're exaggerating the affect or both. I'm pretty sure that enrollment in the Annie Wright schools, Charles Wright Academy, and Bellarmine Prep have more serious implications for the district than two charter public schools.<br /><br />--- akaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50898999305634554322016-03-13T10:46:27.978-07:002016-03-13T10:46:27.978-07:00"Most of us have monthly budgets that we must..."Most of us have monthly budgets that we must follow for our own households, and the government is the same. If I decide that I want to spend $300 during a month on gambling, I have $300 less to spend on other things. The state legislature is trying to add a new budget line (charter schools) so that money, which is not new, must come from somewhere and it now cannot be used for other things"<br /><br />I agree with much of what you say, Leprechaun. There is one pot of money and one does not need to look beyond the creation of the now defunct Charter Commission which cost taxpayers $1M. As well, some in the state want to bring back charter schools which means diverting funding to staff/fund the Charter Commission- which is just a parallel system of education. Those dollars could be used to provide supports in an underfunded system.<br /><br />NO 1240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-27684738132780763842016-03-13T10:43:36.454-07:002016-03-13T10:43:36.454-07:00String Cheese - Bear with me, but isn't it cor...String Cheese - Bear with me, but isn't it correct that if 5 students from every grade also leave to go to a newly opened private school, those same losses occur to that school, and in fact, the money from the state that goes toward "public education" in that district is also reduced?<br /><br />I'm starting to feel like the argument here isn't with charters, but with any family that chooses any route other than a traditional district school. Or, frustration that the state isn't allocating enough money across the board is being sort of unfairly directed at charter schools.<br /><br />- FD Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-68722425013543993652016-03-13T10:42:28.864-07:002016-03-13T10:42:28.864-07:00aka-
Yes, you are correct, there are option schoo...aka-<br /><br />Yes, you are correct, there are option schools within PUBLIC school districts. The point is, the public schools are required to have a place for all students that come their way.<br /><br />How about I check back with you after I have noted your demand that charter schools take all comers? <br /><br />-LeprechaunAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-22079519915244073722016-03-13T10:41:21.072-07:002016-03-13T10:41:21.072-07:00Robert wrote "it was only when charter school...Robert wrote "it was only when charter schools came along that we saw the serious financial crises that urban districts like Chicago or Philadelphia now face"<br /><br />The school district of Philadelphia has been in financial crisis long before charter schools existed. In addition, if the school district were in WA, it would be getting 0 dollars from the state since it has never had a locally elected school board. http://philadelphiaencyclopedia.org/archive/public-educationthe-school-district-of-philadelphia/<br /><br />The school district of Chicago also does not have a locally elected school board, and Chicago also has a long history of financial crises which predate charter schools.<br /><br />LisaGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82545983424953840262016-03-13T10:31:55.927-07:002016-03-13T10:31:55.927-07:00The siphoning of students from public schools to c...The siphoning of students from public schools to charters creates a unique budgeting problem for the public schools. Bear with me through this little scenario:<br /><br />An elementary charter school with a capacity of 600 students opens up in an area currently served by 10 elementary schools. Each school loses 5 students from every grade to the charter school (for a K-5, 60 students per school). If each student is funded at $10,000, each of these public schools is losing $600,000. The loss of these 60 students does not decrease the school's administrative costs, they still need a principal, office staff, nurse, etc. There has been a loss of 2 teachers worth of students but it is a small number from each grade. Possibly only 2 from each classroom. Where do you take these teachers from? Do you make the entire school do grade splits? A process that any teacher and administrator will tell you is generally NOT in the best interests of teaching and learning. What the charter has done is taken $600,000 from a school with fixed costs. What do you lose? Appropriate class structures/sizes, all arts/enrichment programs, supplies, teacher support, professional development, and more. This is played out in each of the 10 elementary schools serving the area. What you end up with are schools with wealthier parents providing funds to keep the art teacher while the less well-off schools just lose, over and over again. The charter school has just decreased the quality of all of the public schools and increased the socio-economic gaps. Oh yeah, and those 60 students from each school are almost certainly not the SpEd or ELL students for whom increased services are needed that are not adequately funded by the few extra dollars the state gives to these students.<br /><br />Before anyone starts coming after me for numbers, this was just an example based on reasonable numbers, not exact numbers for any of it. The point is, the moving around of funds DOES negatively affect public schools when the money follows the student.StringCheesenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-40744664462519312672016-03-13T10:29:41.844-07:002016-03-13T10:29:41.844-07:00Raisbeck Aviation is under the control of a local ...Raisbeck Aviation is under the control of a local and elected school board- charter schools are not- big difference.<br /><br />Education is underfunded and there are fixed costs. The more students a school has...the more funds it gets to provide additional supports. Students leave and dollars go with them. I will also note the amount of students that qualify for free and reduced lunch, throughout the district has decreased and the district is feeling the loss of dollars. Same is true for individual schools.<br /><br />The state is not obligated to pay for students in public schools Students in mid-level private schools often transfer to charter schools. The state resumes responsibility for their educational expenses.<br /><br />The privatization movement is progressive. There is NO intention of capping charter schools. We will see a continued flow of dollars out of school districts.<br /><br />I'm still awaiting aka to clarify ""If this party is going to regain legislative majorities, it's going to need to temper its far-left progressive platforms and run more moderate, business-friendly candidates. "<br /><br />One does not need to look beyond Tacoma. They requested legislation to limit the amount of charter schools in the district because it drained dollars away from an underfunded system. Believe what you like- aka. The Tacoma School Board shares a different view.<br /><br />Charter schools drain funds from public schools. As Robert has noted, cities are asking for relief.<br /><br /><br /><br />NO 1240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-71435832176710300882016-03-13T10:28:47.576-07:002016-03-13T10:28:47.576-07:00Leprechaun - I don't want to misinterpret your...Leprechaun - I don't want to misinterpret your statement, so is it correct to say that by your definition, everything the state funds that is not directed to a traditional public school district would be considered taking money from public education? <br /><br />For example, currently less than 50% of the state operating budget is allocated to all public education, including higher education. I think the state operating budget is something in the range of $79 Billion per biennium, and currently $20 Billion of that goes into the K-12 public education system. So, removing charter schools from the equation entirely, using your family budget analogy, without raising taxes - the legislature could and should have fully funded McCleary and still had $70 Billion to play with? If that's your thought process, I can see how it is frustrating that McCleary is not fully funded. However, the state uses revenue to pay for very important other services, like health care and social services, so I don't think those decisions are easy. <br /><br />Putting charter schools back in - like aka said, that money is not "new" money. If the student is a public school student, the state will spend that money on educating a student, whether that student is in a public school that is part of a district, or in a public school that is "chartered". And if all those charter school students were to be declared non-public school students -the state would not put that money into a district, it would simply reduce the funding stream by a proportional amount, because funding is done by a formula that is driven by the number of students.<br /><br />I want to see state funding increased for public education, and I think that trying to cut funding for some students because their school is not part of a local district is in some ways an argument toward less funding not more. The more students that are considered public school student, the more funding we can demand. Perhaps there should be a campaign to convince families that have left for private school to come back? That would drive many more dollars into the public schools - because it would increase the state's obligation.<br /><br />- Friendly disagreementAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-1442042418612105112016-03-13T10:09:06.220-07:002016-03-13T10:09:06.220-07:00Ah, got it. I'll check back in with you after...Ah, got it. I'll check back in with you after I've noted your demand that Raisbeck Aviation High School in Highline, School of the Arts in Tacoma, and Delta High School in the Tri-Cities be closed. They don't take all comers and they receive public school dollars.<br /><br />--- akaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15773121767808420532016-03-13T09:58:24.814-07:002016-03-13T09:58:24.814-07:00aka-
Oxymoron: "charter public"
I do ...aka-<br /><br />Oxymoron: "charter public"<br /><br />I do not believe charter schools are public schools, so this is our disagreement. Public schools take all comers and charter schools do not.<br /><br />You answered my question. Charter schools take money from pubic schools.<br /><br />-LeprechaunAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-18460307222860829622016-03-13T09:45:32.351-07:002016-03-13T09:45:32.351-07:00Leprechaun, assuming the vast majority of students...Leprechaun, assuming the vast majority of students enrolled in charter public schools were enrolled in traditional public schools prior to enrolling in charter public schools, the state is going to fund these students regardless of whether they attend a traditional public school or a charter public school. As far as the state budget is concerned, there is no change. The state funded those students in their traditional public schools last year and they'll fund those same students in their charter public schools this year. In effect, there is no change to the state budget. Another way of putting it is that these are not new students as far as the state budget is concerned.<br /><br />--- akaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-54877293451806954362016-03-13T09:19:29.689-07:002016-03-13T09:19:29.689-07:00The idea that charter schools don't take money...The idea that charter schools don't take money away from public schools makes zero sense to me. <br /><br />First, I will work under the assumption that everyone believes that WA State does not have an unlimited amount of money and that they must make hard choices about what gets funded and what doesn't.<br /><br />Second, I think we all agree that our current state government will not raise taxes no matter what.<br /><br />So, if we can agree on the two points above, where does the charter school money come from? <br /><br />Most of us have monthly budgets that we must follow for our own households, and the government is the same. If I decide that I want to spend $300 during a month on gambling, I have $300 less to spend on other things. The state legislature is trying to add a new budget line (charter schools) so that money, which is not new, must come from somewhere and it now cannot be used for other things.<br /><br />Until McCleary is complete, and all of our schools are fully funded, we are required to put all monies toward meeting that constitutional requirement.<br /><br />-LeprechaunAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com