tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post3779758966993448144..comments2024-03-28T02:21:17.452-07:00Comments on Seattle Schools Community Forum: Tuesday Open ThreadMelissa Westbrookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33928660208666279242015-01-30T14:27:51.304-08:002015-01-30T14:27:51.304-08:00Go Greenberg's self-glorifying website:
http:...Go Greenberg's self-glorifying website:<br /><br />http://citizenshipandsocialjustice.com/<br /><br />illin"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-86123566739947915772015-01-30T12:39:56.223-08:002015-01-30T12:39:56.223-08:00@ no name, to which letter were you referring? I ...@ no name, to which letter were you referring? I saw Nyland's letter above, but nothing with the phrases you referenced. Is there something else--a letter from the students or teacher, perhaps?<br /><br />And I'm inclined to agree with you re: the one-year stint at HIMS. Seems like there was a mismatch in teaching and learning styles, as well as too much focus on ideology at the expense of core material coverage. It sounds like the Center School is a better fit.<br /><br />Half FullAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33121426476776402132015-01-30T12:32:26.692-08:002015-01-30T12:32:26.692-08:00Gotta love the kids wearing the shirts with the Su...Gotta love the kids wearing the shirts with the Superman-like logo containing a G for Greenberg. <br /><br />It's not hard to imagine him going over the line and making students very uncomfortable, even afraid.<br /><br />White advantage is real, as is male advantage, wealth advantage beauty advantage, height advantage, and of course, school preparation advantage. <br /><br />I'd submit SPS is a very socially aware district with the vast majority of employees working towards a more fair world. It's the grandstanding, Greenberg needs to simply separate his job at SPS from his more strident political beliefs. He can do all he wants outside school, but needs to temper his zeal at school.<br /><br />Just like the inter-agency teacher.<br />He can smoke weed and hang out with teenagers if he wants, just not the students with whom he works.Like Greenberg, he meant well, he may have done good things for many students, like Greenberg no doubt has done, but rules are there for reasons. Reasons like protecting young minds from overt personal ideologies.<br /><br />Suppose a teacher with strong Christian beliefs emphasized the power of Jesus in the work of MLK Jr.? <br />Would we not look askance at a teacher expressing sympathy for southern slaveholders who believed God approved of human bondage in their interpretation of the bible?<br /><br />How about.. well there are many absurd examples. We would tolerate none of them and Mr Greenberg needs to do his job and not be the Mark Driscoll of social justice, not in the classroom.hippienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15901382815241530762015-01-30T10:59:53.780-08:002015-01-30T10:59:53.780-08:00Wow, quite a letter. Denying the "fomenting o...Wow, quite a letter. Denying the "fomenting of racial hatred," but then repeatedly calling out the "white family" for blame. Would that they had surveyed the students taught during his year of "exile" at HIMS - he may not have the unquestioning support he thinks he has. <i>How</i> you talk about race and gender issues in a public school setting is not so simple.<br /><br />signed,<br />no nameAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-25710758861216088492015-01-30T10:36:49.067-08:002015-01-30T10:36:49.067-08:00Zinn’s scholarship will hold up with most historia...Zinn’s scholarship will hold up with most historians writing for a popular audience (which would include most textbooks). Which is to say that there will be some things he oversimplifies, some things he gets wrong, and some things with which others disagree, as with all historians. Most of the criticisms of his scholarship focus on attacking one or two of Zinn’s sources, largely out of the context and without addressing the additional evidence he presents to back up his position (and the accusation his work is socialist propaganda is just tired red-baiting). You can pick apart any history book that way. And unlike many historians, Zinn is upfront about the fact that he is presenting a position at odds with other views. <br />But the larger point of Zinn is not his factual narrative, but that he gives priority to the underdogs of US history. He is not laying out a socialist viewpoint, so much as saying that the perspectives of the ordinary people who lived history are as important as the perspectives powerful (just as we should value the perspectives of students, parents, and teachers to understand what is going on at SPS and not just the official reports from JCC). That isn’t socialism, it’s human reality. <br />To be sure, a rigorous 8th grade history class should include reading from original sources and original narratives, and go beyond any one textbook or any one narrative of history. It should include reading slave narratives, debates in congress, etc. Good history teachers I know, including ones who use books like Zinn or <i>The Story of Us</i>, do so. In fact, the Zinn foundation provides loads of lesson plans and other supporting material for exploring primary sources and doing first-hand historical research. <br />History, like science, should not be taught as a collection of facts, but as a process of examining evidence and drawing conclusions from that evidence. But it’s funny how this is rarely raised with books other than the ones by Howard Zinn.<br />Ragweedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491896585801927302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-73946985224734826252015-01-30T09:08:27.870-08:002015-01-30T09:08:27.870-08:00Greenberg is way over the line and will be termina...Greenberg is way over the line and will be terminated soon. It's entirely clear what is wrong.<br /><br />He used students to bully the one whose family complained, he used students to shut own any further complaints or even any real discussion of his actions.<br /><br />Now, he continues to enlist students in his battle with the district.<br /><br />Wrong, so very wrong.<br /><br />So messianic.<br /><br />I wouldn't let my kids near that guy. The district tried to help him, to show him the maturity level of students coming into high school, but to no avail.Greenberg needs to go.<br /><br />SpaceNeedleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-79150901152612506862015-01-29T22:42:08.789-08:002015-01-29T22:42:08.789-08:00Alternate perspectives are always important to rec...Alternate perspectives are always important to recognize<br /><br />http://citizenshipandsocialjustice.com/2015/01/29/given-my-10-day-suspension-how-is-it-possible-that-im-returning-to-work-on-monday/aggienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-89663389521013371612015-01-29T21:56:34.489-08:002015-01-29T21:56:34.489-08:00Inequity is not weapon, but is a state. One can&#...Inequity is not weapon, but is a state. One can't hurl inequity. One can only shine a light on it, complain about it, seek to eradicate it, but use it as a weapon, against students? <br /><br />I have no knowledge but that a parent stated their student was studying Zinn in 8th at JAMS. I wondered if that was only for the HCC as I've never heard of Zinn being taught anywhere else and I like the thought, Zinn's radical and we do have real Socialist in city government and our president is called one every day, so I thought all 8th graders should get a go at it.I really am a,<br /><br />commie<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-82676895473389705522015-01-29T21:30:02.824-08:002015-01-29T21:30:02.824-08:00Nyland's letter to Center School: He's not...Nyland's letter to Center School: He's not comfortable with discussing staffing issues with students but he's totes okay with saying Harassment, Intimidation AND Bullying THREE TIMES, in case some of us are BLIND and missed this factoid the first two times he wrote it,(capitalized and all).<br /><br />Who is really doing the Harassment, Intimidation and Bullying here? I guess SPS' Sups don't have to hew to any Employees' Privacy Laws or Libel Laws.<br /><br />Yep, the School Board picked another winner here. Aren't we blessed.<br /><br />CCA<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-5008335372417519942015-01-29T19:00:33.709-08:002015-01-29T19:00:33.709-08:00@Commie: Why haven't you taken your complaint...@Commie: Why haven't you taken your complaint up with your child's teacher or principal, and see what they think of your complaints, before you go into the blogosphere and start throwing "inequity" darts at HCC kids? <br /><br />WSDWGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-66218922347914903222015-01-29T17:52:39.506-08:002015-01-29T17:52:39.506-08:00@ dawg
That was exactly my point, are 13 and 14 ye...@ dawg<br />That was exactly my point, are 13 and 14 year old gened students unable to grasp the concept of multiple viewpoints?<br />Should gened or HCP kids at non-HCC sites,or anybody in SPS,wait two years after the HCC kids to learn the "heady" topic of socialism and the fact that history is skewed by the creator of that history?<br />You might win me if you said the HCC kids might go "deeper" into Zinn, but to say "regulars" aren't able to handle Zinn's critique of standard history is ridiculous and inequitable.<br /><br />commieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-60428588771792207172015-01-29T17:43:07.934-08:002015-01-29T17:43:07.934-08:0013 year old Denny student was robbed at gun-point ...13 year old Denny student was robbed at gun-point while walking to school. The robber patted her down looking for a cell phone.<br /><br />http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2015/01/delridge-middle-school-student-robbed-at-gunpoint/<br /><br />Earlier in the week, an exposed male tried to lure a student from Whitman Middle School into his car.<br /><br />WTH is going on?Geeshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-67176161859244737992015-01-29T17:19:31.061-08:002015-01-29T17:19:31.061-08:00Letter that went out to Center School students and...Letter that went out to Center School students and families today:<br />________________________________<br /><br />To: Students and Parents at The Center School<br /><br />From: Larry Nyland, Superintendent<br /><br />Date: January 28, 2015<br /><br />RE: Student Petition<br /><br /> <br /><br />On January 12th a delegation of Center School students came to my office to petition against a staffing decision. That petition made many good points–most notably the importance of having staff in place at the start of the new semester on Monday, February 2, 2015. Students demonstrated their commitment by engaging personally in issues that are important to them– great life skill.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Although I am not comfortable discussing a staffing issue with students, I will share some of my thinking:<br /><br /> <br /><br />Civic Engagement: First, I would note that many civic processes are part of this decision:<br /><br />-Laws have been passed by our legislature, including laws on collective bargaining with teachers and student issues such as Harassment, Intimidation and Bullying.<br /><br />-School board members have been elected by Seattle voters.<br /><br />-The Seattle Public Schools has negotiated a collective bargaining agreement with Seattle Education Association. That agreement has been approved by a vote of both the teachers and the school board.<br /><br />-The courts have decided 100s of cases around how teachers are to be treated when there is a disagreement.<br /><br />-School board members have voted to approve board policies–many required by law: ... in this case Policy 3207 on Harassment, Intimidation and Bullying.<br /><br />-School board members vote on and select a superintendent to carry out the policies and the collective bargaining agreements.<br /><br /> <br /><br />In this case, there was a disagreement about several issues. The school district and the teachers association agreed to submit the disagreement to an independent arbitrator for “final and binding arbitration.” The arbitrator is not a judge, but does have extensive training in fact finding and dispute resolution. They hear testimony, listen to witnesses, and weigh the laws and policies and collective bargaining agreement. In the end, they make a final and binding decision.<br /><br /> <br /><br />I have read the 28 page decision by the arbitrator and have taken steps to do what the arbitrator directed. The arbitrator made a split decision–he decided some issues in favor of the teacher and some issues in favor of the district. One could say that no one is happy with the decision. It is however, the decision making process that was agreed to by the parties. Somewhat like a judge’s decision, it is the decision that we have –based on many laws and policies.<br /><br /> <br /><br />In this case, my responsibility is to take steps under one set of laws and policies to protect the rights of teachers and under another set of laws and procedures to protect the rights of students from Harassment, Intimidation and Bullying. I take both responsibilities seriously. Your comments and concerns certainly have weight and deserve to be heard and acknowledged. My job as superintendent is to uphold my legal responsibilities as I also consider the interests of constituents – including students, teachers and parents.<br /><br /> <br /><br />That said, I do agree, and will ensure that we start the second semester off on a positive note with teacher and students in class and ready to learn. Mr. Greenberg will be allowed to start teaching students at The Center School on February 2, 2015.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Again, thank you for your concerns and advocacy in support of issues about which you feel strongly.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Sincerely,<br /><br />Larry Nyland<br /><br />SuperintendentRagweedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12491896585801927302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-55605622878166083182015-01-29T14:34:45.254-08:002015-01-29T14:34:45.254-08:00Is it the course content (i.e., some get to study ...<i>Is it the course content (i.e., some get to study Zinn, while others don't), or just the fact that some kids are studying Zinn before others? The first instance would be inequitable, while the second clearly wouldn't be.</i><br /><br />I'm trying to understand how studying Zinn is somehow better, and the source of some kind of inequity. It's an indication that the teacher may not place a high value on historical scholarship. I'd argue the use of Zinn is academically less rigorous than a class that analyzes and interprets historical documents, essays, and speeches (Ain't I a Woman?), or reads from books such as <i>Up from Slavery</i> or <i>Bury My Heart on Wounded Knee.</i><br /><br />just me?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-90684204391533282822015-01-29T14:23:59.652-08:002015-01-29T14:23:59.652-08:00Signing myself, "very scared"
What is g...Signing myself, "very scared"<br /><br />What is going on with Middle School in Seattle? So far this year, a kid was hit by a car walking to HIMS, an adult tried to abduct a child yesterday as she walked to Whitman, and today a child was robbed at gunpoint as she walked to Denny? Kids should be safe as they walk to school. It is NOT WORKING for SPS to not provide transportation for kids who live less than 2 miles from school and to provide NO crossing guards or other support.<br /><br />This is from the Seattle PI today:<br /><br />An eighth grade student of Denny International Middle School was robbed at gunpoint on her way to school Thursday morning.<br /><br />The 13-year-old girl was walking down the staircase connecting 20th Avenue Southwest and Delridge Way Southwest near Southwest Holden Street when a man believed to be in his late 20s pointed a gun at her and ordered, “Give me everything you’ve got,” according to police and school district reports.<br /><br />The robber patted down the girl in search of a cell phone and money, but finding neither, he took her backpack and left the scene, Seattle police say.<br /><br />The student finished her trip to school and reported the incident to school authorities.<br /><br />She described the assailant as muscular, wearing a purple bandana over his face, a black hooded sweatshirt and black pants.<br /><br />Responding police could not find the suspect or the girl’s backpack during a search of the area.<br /><br />School officials say police and school security will be present at Denny International Middle School after school Thursday and again before and after school on Monday.<br /><br />Police advise anyone with information about the case to call 911.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-15494511842382091622015-01-29T14:22:53.524-08:002015-01-29T14:22:53.524-08:00I think creationism would be very appropriately di...I think creationism would be very appropriately discussed in a religious history class or study of cultural origin myths. But it is not related to the study of science so would be inappropriate there. Conservative and liberal perspective on historical events, however, is integral to the study of history. There is no one way things happened, and we constantly rewrite history to fit current ideological norms. I absolutely think kids need to learn about that! <br /><br />-sleeperAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-81114179742992667802015-01-29T14:20:32.671-08:002015-01-29T14:20:32.671-08:00Fairness, I don't think that's "logic...Fairness, I don't think that's "logic" that you are speaking of. History is a very different subject than science. Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-29317878093501104312015-01-29T13:19:23.270-08:002015-01-29T13:19:23.270-08:00Melissa,
Using your logic, I assume that you wou...Melissa, <br /><br />Using your logic, I assume that you would have no problem with a teacher using a supplemental text that espoused creationism as "another point of view"? <br /><br />Personally, I'm much more comfortable with keeping teachers' ideologies out of the classroom. <br /><br />Fairness<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-8788928706149877342015-01-29T13:08:36.980-08:002015-01-29T13:08:36.980-08:00Is it the course content (i.e., some get to study ...<i>Is it the course content (i.e., some get to study Zinn, while others don't), or just the fact that some kids are studying Zinn before others? The first instance would be inequitable, while the second clearly wouldn't be.</i><br /><br />I'm not sure "equity" is the issue here re: curriculum. Unless teachers are using a set curriculum, you're not going to have "equity" in what's covered. If teachers are free to choose the materials they want, why would we expect all classes to use the same books? We don't have an adopted curriculum to which teachers are required to adhere. Is it inequitable when English teachers select different literature books for kids to read? <br /><br />Half FullAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-50225384319701551582015-01-29T11:34:00.806-08:002015-01-29T11:34:00.806-08:00@Commie: Unless you've been told that your ch...@Commie: Unless you've been told that your child will never study Zinn, there is nothing inequitable about HCC studying him in 8th grade. They are supposed to be doing 10th and 11th grade work in 8th grade HCC, and 10th graders always get headier work than 9th graders, regardless. <br /><br />Is it the course content (i.e., some get to study Zinn, while others don't), or just the fact that some kids are studying Zinn before others? The first instance would be inequitable, while the second clearly wouldn't be. <br /><br />WSDWGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-65343969654801084272015-01-29T10:48:48.396-08:002015-01-29T10:48:48.396-08:00Fairness, are you sure that Zinn is taught as &quo...Fairness, are you sure that Zinn is taught as "truth" or another point of view? I think it's great if students understand that history is written by the victors and that perhaps multiple viewpoints allows greater understanding.<br /><br />Melissa Westbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17179994245880629080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-4592498527074059502015-01-29T10:29:43.477-08:002015-01-29T10:29:43.477-08:00Have all the private school kindergartners who sig...Have all the private school kindergartners who signed up for testing through advanced learning taken the CogAT? Has achievement testing started for kindergartners?<br /><br />Late?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-33726781438043853292015-01-29T08:55:47.624-08:002015-01-29T08:55:47.624-08:00The man attempted to grab the girl near to Whitman...The man attempted to grab the girl near to Whitman:<br /><br />http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/2015/01/28/report-man-grabbed-student-near-whitman-middle-school/<br /><br />Whittier Parent.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-69157183516977852792015-01-29T00:19:00.285-08:002015-01-29T00:19:00.285-08:00Went to JAMS middle school info night tonight. Sup...Went to JAMS middle school info night tonight. Super impressed with the positive spirit of the staff and teachers. It's clear people want to be there. Such a breath of fresh air!!<br /><br />Looking forward parentAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28765366.post-53351565771094061542015-01-28T23:09:15.306-08:002015-01-28T23:09:15.306-08:00@scared - can you provide more details? What neigh...@scared - can you provide more details? What neighborhood and school, age of girl etc. Are the police involved? Description of perpetrator? - NPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com